Ward's Top 10 Best Engine Awards

[ANTAUS]

LINK-Wardsauto.com

[NickF1011]

Unfortunate that there are no MODs on the list this year. They've been a pretty steady presence for years. I'm going on a hunch and say they'll return next year with the return of the MOD 5.0.

 

At least there's still 1 Ford on the list.

[V8 Ford]

No VQ either

[ANTAUS]

The VQ engines had about 6-7 consecutive years of winning the award, I too am shocked they didnt get an award this year, specially with the 330HP version.

 

I'm not surprised about the MOD V8's though...the reason above is a main reason why. And even the Duratec35 which won a year or 2 ago, didn't take it this year either (see above as well). It's kinda paltry when your competitors are pumping out much more, from much less.

 

I'm surprised the 2.5L won though. Next month they'll post as to the reasons why they chose it...I'm interested in ready why....

[NickF1011]

The VQ engines had about 6-7 consecutive years of winning the award, I too am shocked they didnt get an award this year, specially with the 330HP version.

 

I'm not surprised about the MOD V8's though...the reason above is a main reason why. And even the Duratec35 which won a year or 2 ago, didn't take it this year either (see above as well). It's kinda paltry when your competitors are pumping out much more, from much less.

 

I'm surprised the 2.5L won though. Next month they'll post as to the reasons why they chose it...I'm interested in ready why....

 

What other engines of similar size are making the same power/torque as the Duratec 35 on regular unleaded? It is one of their truly competitive engines....finally.

[papilgee4evaeva]

What other engines of similar size are making the same power/torque as the Duratec 35 on regular unleaded? It is one of their truly competitive engines....finally.

 

I think the Sludge-o-Matic...

[NickF1011]

I think the Sludge-o-Matic...

 

If I recall correctly, the Camry's 3.5 only makes 257 HP on 87 octane. It could be 263. Not sure off the top of my head and I'm not going to a Toyota site to check. :P

[the_spaniard]

If I recall correctly, the Camry's 3.5 only makes 257 HP on 87 octane. It could be 263. Not sure off the top of my head and I'm not going to a Toyota site to check. :P

 

Not current and not on the list, the DIVQ in my 2005-6 Nissan pulls 265HP and 284lbs Torque on regular unleaded. (Also had a six-speed manual option which I regret not getting). Fuel economy is pretty bad compared the the new Ford V6 though.

 

I think the Chevy Trailblazer had even more from their inline-6...291HP and 277lbs Torque. I believe it was regular unleaded as well.

Edited December 8, 2008 by the_spaniard

[NickF1011]

Not current and not on the list, the DIVQ in my 2005-6 Nissan pulls 265HP and 284lbs Torque on regular unleaded. (Also had a six-speed manual option which I regret not getting). Fuel economy is pretty bad compared the the new Ford V6 though.

 

I think the Chevy Trailblazer had even more from their inline-6...291HP and 277lbs Torque. I believe it was regular unleaded as well.

 

The important thing to note there is the fuel economy. Okay, so yeah the GM inline-6 made nice power. It drank gas like a V8 though. The Duratec35 is a very balanced package between fuel economy and power.

[the_spaniard]

The important thing to note there is the fuel economy. Okay, so yeah the GM inline-6 made nice power. It drank gas like a V8 though. The Duratec35 is a very balanced package between fuel economy and power.

 

Oh, believe me I understand. I was amazed at Ford's numbers on the MPG side when the Edge came out. Very impressive stuff. I wish my VQ put out that MPG. I drove a Lincoln MKX as rental, and I was very, very impressed with the powertrain and AWD setup. It really does destroy the old 4.0 liter engine in every way. A shame that engine didn't make the Mustang refresh, but seems we are always saying that with engine choices. I am eyeballing the next Edge redesign carefully, because by then I may be in the market.

 

Interesting the Hyundai engine made the list. I'm not a fan of luxury-type vehicles. Anyone had any wheel-time with a Genesis? Don't we have a resident Hyundai/Kia fan here (Ovaltine?)

[ANTAUS]

What other engines of similar size are making the same power/torque as the Duratec 35 on regular unleaded? It is one of their truly competitive engines....finally.

 

All depends how you want to address it, i'm not being specific. I can say "Well what other engine that are 3.5L and pump out 263 HP with regular gas and is placed in a vehicle assembled in Chicago" so my final answer will be, and can only be the Duratec35 by Ford.

 

My point was, others are doing more with less. Meaning, you have other example such as Chevy's 3.6L found in the CTS pumping out 306HP with DI, or Nissans VQ 3.5L in the Maxima at 290HP, of course the 3.7L at 330HP, or Lexus Sludge-O-Matic 3.5L doing 306HP Etc.etc. Here we have the 3.7L debuting on the MKS and we all know it could have been a DI version pumping out 300HP (in the field most are already playing in now), but again, took the conservative approach.

 

Here we have the current Ford MOD 4.6L V8 in 232-300HP tune, Hyundai is getting 360+HP out of their 4.6L. pretty laughable that a 4.6L V8 in the CV is making 232HP. Dont get me started on the Cologne 4.0L boat anchor.

 

And lets not even start with the whole "New vehicle, but last generation drivetrain" philosophy at Ford. Since 2004 I've been hearing the excuse "well there were budget problems, and that program was pushed back yadda yadda, to coincide, so both programs are not coinciding together just yet".... We are at it 5 years later, and it doesn't look like it's coincide in tandem anytime soon.

 

I do agree though, the Duratec35 is finally competitive...with engines from 2-3 years ago though. The competition is hitting 3.7-3.8L and when Ford is debuting their 3.7L, it gives it 3.5L power ratings?? I wonder sometimes....

[V8 Ford]

The 3.7 does fine against the non-DI versions of its competitors. The base Cadillac engine (non DI 3.6) gets The Lexus ES gets 272HP from its 3.5. I believe the Lincoln 3.7 gets much better torque too.

Edited December 9, 2008 by V8 Ford

[Michael Reynolds]

Understanding the points brought up here, I still don't see the big deal considering the fact that the D35 and D37 run on regular unleaded while still offering a decent amount of torque and HP. The VQ has been bored and stroked to all hell, but the torque just isn't there. Aside from vehicles such as the MKS, the D35 is the bread and butter (or will be soon) of basic Ford vehicles. Don't you think owners will balk at putting more expensive premium fuel in their vehicle?

[NickF1011]

And lets not even start with the whole "New vehicle, but last generation drivetrain" philosophy at Ford. Since 2004 I've been hearing the excuse "well there were budget problems, and that program was pushed back yadda yadda, to coincide, so both programs are not coinciding together just yet".... We are at it 5 years later, and it doesn't look like it's coincide in tandem anytime soon.

 

It isn't budget problems. It's a new vehicle philosophy, that's all. When the vehicle is ready, launch it. When the engines are ready, launch them. Sometimes they don't always coincide. That's the nature of the business.

 

Would it sound better if we worded it like "The supercharged DOHC 5.4 debuted before the 2010 Mustang was ready"? It's a chicken-or-the-egg scenario when you think about it.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Well, for Ford, they really only have a couple of really non-competitive engines. The 4.0L Cologne V6 and the 4.6L 2V V8. The Cologne is just there to fulfill the end of its build contract and to allow D35 and variant production to fully ramp up. We all already know its going away. The 4.6L 2V is there for three reasons: good torque numbers at low RPM, reliability, proven and inexpensive design. Were it not for the CVPI, the 4.6L 2V would have been gone a long time ago.

 

Ford also has a decent number of "competitive" engines. These engines provide numbers that are in the ballpark of other engines that are produced by the competition. The 2.0L I4 in the Focus hits the happy medium between the imports 1.8L powerplants and their efficiency and GM/Chrysler with their 2.2-2.4L I4 engines with their high torque numbers. The 2.0L delivers very good torque characteristics for its displacement, revs well, gets decent efficiency numbers and burns rather cleanly. The D30PIP produces HP/L that's every bit as good as anybodies naturally aspirated engines in that same size class (2.7L to 3.2L) It does so with decent fuel economy and excellent reliability. The D35 and variants, in their N/A form at present, are also highly competitive in the HP/L, TQ/L and overall fuel efficiency catagories. The D35 is rather compact for its displacement range and is also inexpensive to build. In the V8 range, the 3V MODs do well as compared to their competition. The 4.6L 3V, as it is configured in the new mustang, produces competitive HP and TQ numbers on regular unleaded. There are no official premium tunes of this engine at present, but, if you scale the numbers at 10%, which is a safe assumption for a premium tune gain over a regular unleaded engine tune, you see that the potential is indeed there. In the F-150 and Explorer, the MOD 4.6L 3V is tuned for a broad torque curve over HP. It still delivers very good numbers as compared to the GM 4.8L, Dodge 4.7L and Toyota 4.7L DOHC 4V in similar applications. The 5.4L 3V is also competitive when comparing torque output and towing performance. It is definitely inferior when raw output numbers are considered, (though, its E85 numbers aren't half bad), but, in its designated application in the F-150, it produces a vehicle that has performance numbers that are similar to its competition. When considering the near EOL 6.8L V-10, you can really only compare it to the only other engine out there that is attempting to perform a similar task, the 8.0L Vortec Max from GM. In that regard, it has proven itself over the years to be a better engine overall and on the statistics where it doesn't lead the big GM, it isn't far behind. When you compare it to the 6.2L Vortec V8, it is a bit of a gas hog, but, its absolute power numbers are still substantial.

 

Engines where Ford can be considered to be in a leadership position are few and far between. They have some very stellar powerplants overseas. Their research on EcoBoost may soon pay off for them in a big way as well. The only engine that you can say Ford really is in the upper crust with is the 2.5L DOHC that they just debuted. While its power numbers are comparable to the Nissan 2.5L I4, it is believed to deliver superior efficiency and refinement.

 

The 5.4L DOHC that currently exists is a special applications motor only. It has proven to be a good powerplant in those applications, but, given their low volume, it seems pointless to include that engine in this discussion.

[ANTAUS]

It isn't budget problems. It's a new vehicle philosophy, that's all. When the vehicle is ready, launch it. When the engines are ready, launch them. Sometimes they don't always coincide. That's the nature of the business.

 

Would it sound better if we worded it like "The supercharged DOHC 5.4 debuted before the 2010 Mustang was ready"? It's a chicken-or-the-egg scenario when you think about it.

 

So how come everyone else debuts the vehicle, WITH the upgraded drivetrain, from the get go? I guess Ford is the only one subscribing to that philosophy, and the church is emptying real quick too.

[NickF1011]

So how come everyone else debuts the vehicle, WITH the upgraded drivetrain, from the get go? I guess Ford is the only one subscribing to that philosophy, and the church is emptying real quick too.

 

Everyone else does?

 

What engine did the new BMW 3-series debut with?

 

What engine did the new Cadillac CTS debut with?

 

Those are just two examples I can think of off the top of my head. There are MANY more. And it's not like EVERY Ford vehicle is this way. Yeesh.

 

 

In the end, what the heck does it matter? If the engines you have are sufficient, why does it NEED a new engine? Additionally, with the number of total engines in the lineup decreasing so drastically, it's not like Ford can introduce a new engine every time a new vehicle comes out. Neither can other automakers. You just don't notice them because you don't follow them as closely as you follow Ford.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Lets take a look at things here...

 

Honda: The J30,32,35 and 37 are all based on the same basic architecture. They haven't done anything other than bore and stroke jobs and top end revisions on this thing for over 12 years. Previous architecture died with the 2.7L v6 in the Accord sedan in the mid-90s.

 

Toyota: The 3.5L is a downsized 4.0L V6 from their truck and suv line. The 3.0L\3.3L it replaced had soldiered on for many years. The latest major camry revisions debuted with the old 3.0L V6 (with the 3.3L v6 in the SE) as well as the Lexus ES330 carrying forward that same 3.3L version of the 3.0L. IT was a year and a half before that was updated. The Sienna minivan started with the 3.3L in its current body style and had it for several years before getting the 3.5L. The new Tundra carried forward the 4.7L and 4.0L engines from the previous Tundra, just adding a new top engine.

 

Nissan: The VQ series has seen one major revision in the Early 2000s with the intriduction of the 3.5L in the turn of the century body style Maxima and I30 to I35 changeover. The maxima then carried over that engine into its up to this year body style. The Altima has had the same basic engine with only refinement upgrades since 03-04. Nissan tends to tie a particular engine to a particular car, and then reuse that engine where they can. The 350Z for the VQ35. the 240SX for the old KA24. That's what dictates what the do.

 

GM, where do we start? How old is the architecture under the High Value 3500 V6? How short lived will the 3900 v6 be? They're another one that has "engine programs" that offer the engines in a variety of trims to the car programs for them to pick what's available when. The last revisions to the GM half ton pickups has seen carryover engines, with others being added later or after the fact.

 

Chrysler engines, with the HEMI being maybe the sole exception, seems to work in reverse. Their engines actually get worse over time. Look at the OHC 3.5L in the Avenger. The power numbers are way down on that as compared to the Intrepid of the turn of the century with what was largely the same engine. The 4.7L in the new Ram 1500 is carryover, though it got a thorough working over 2 years ago. The HEMI got largely a new top end, but is still the same basic architecture.

 

So, don't crucify Ford over carry over on their engines. Its common throughout the industry. And, customers tend not to care that much. The Escape had carryover powertrains under its most recent skin and saw a big sales rise anyway. People care about the package more than the specifics. The Mustang GT is still a nicep ackage for the money. The only place I'll bag on Ford over is the mustang's base v6. Mazda already has 3.7L v6s being shipped to that assembly plant for the new MAzda6 that's built alongside the Mustang. A modest amount of money could have made a RWD amenable version of that engine which would have done wonders for the Mustang at the base of the market. Its more efficient, smoother, more refined, and much more powerful. The only reason that we're seeing the Cologne 4.0L v6 still in production is the production contract that it has. It should be ending soon and we can see it fade off into the sunset.

[ANTAUS]

Everyone else does?

 

What engine did the new BMW 3-series debut with?

 

What engine did the new Cadillac CTS debut with?

 

Those are just two examples I can think of off the top of my head. There are MANY more. And it's not like EVERY Ford vehicle is this way. Yeesh.

 

 

In the end, what the heck does it matter? If the engines you have are sufficient, why does it NEED a new engine? Additionally, with the number of total engines in the lineup decreasing so drastically, it's not like Ford can introduce a new engine every time a new vehicle comes out. Neither can other automakers. You just don't notice them because you don't follow them as closely as you follow Ford.

 

It has shrank dramatically? I'm seeing the new Fusion not only have the I4 and Hybrid version, BUT 2, not one...V6's. One V6 is more than enough (the 3.5L to be competitive with others in it's segment), but even at that, they just couldn't stick in the 3.7L (go to Mazda for that) ----> enter excuse here. But i'm ok with that, choice is better than lack thereof.

 

I too can make a list of what vehicles have been introduced with engine HP improvements (I'm not addressing architecture, I'm addressing HP/POWER Improvements), and it would still be at a 10-1 against those being introduced with yestur-generation performance.

 

My point is, to be truely competitive, you introduce an improved drivetrain, and more power on the engines, WHEN the vehicle is released, the majority tend to do this with no issues. Its ok to be half assed though, but you'll get penalized for it. Ford has gotta, and the media has picked up on their current "philosophy".

 

And yeah we can always make excuses...

A) they dont have the money

B)Engines wasn't available at the time to coincide with introduction

C)who uses that much power anyways?

D)Majority of people buy the weaker engine anyways

 

I personally think, Ford needs to stop making excuses, and find solutions.

 

Now an example of a good product with a good introduction has been the Edge...Introduced from the start correctly, minimal changes and tweaks has allowed Ford to possibly focus on other products instead of coming back and phase in engines, and do another tweaking a year later (Escape). Imagine the time and effort being wasted, to do such a thing? At the end of the day, is it really worth it? We have the Flex which is a solid package as well...won't need a tweaking anytime soon unless they plan to phase EgoBoost during it's re-fresh.

 

Then the opposite spectrum once again...the MKS with a 3.7L with 3.5L level power, couldn't at least give us DI in time...

 

So I guess for "educated" people that would be interested, have to wait for the a year later, to get the Egoboost on the MKS, and for nothing, because a year after THAT, the mid-cycle refresh will occur bringing styling changes already making the previous year look dated. Right powertrain, but at the wrong time.

 

Again, I THOUGHT Ford kinda got it with the Edge Flex and Focus introductions, but then the Escape comes out with the engine drama, as the MKS... then you THINK they got it again with the Fusion, but then screw it up with the Mustang, F150s.

 

At the end of the day, all it does is just project instability, wishy-washiness and mediocredy. I guess I just have higher standards and expect more for.

[NickF1011]

It has shrank dramatically? I'm seeing the new Fusion not only have the I4 and Hybrid version, BUT 2, not one...V6's. One V6 is more than enough (the 3.5L to be competitive with others in it's segment), but even at that, they just couldn't stick in the 3.7L (go to Mazda for that) ----> enter excuse here. But i'm ok with that, choice is better than lack thereof.

 

I too can make a list of what vehicles have been introduced with engine HP improvements (I'm not addressing architecture, I'm addressing HP/POWER Improvements), and it would still be at a 10-1 against those being introduced with yestur-generation performance.

 

My point is, to be truely competitive, you introduce an improved drivetrain, and more power on the engines, WHEN the vehicle is released, the majority tend to do this with no issues. Its ok to be half assed though, but you'll get penalized for it. Ford has gotta, and the media has picked up on their current "philosophy".

 

And yeah we can always make excuses...

A) they dont have the money

B)Engines wasn't available at the time to coincide with introduction

C)who uses that much power anyways?

D)Majority of people buy the weaker engine anyways

 

I personally think, Ford needs to stop making excuses, and find solutions.

 

Now an example of a good product with a good introduction has been the Edge...Introduced from the start correctly, minimal changes and tweaks has allowed Ford to possibly focus on other products instead of coming back and phase in engines, and do another tweaking a year later (Escape). Imagine the time and effort being wasted, to do such a thing? At the end of the day, is it really worth it? We have the Flex which is a solid package as well...won't need a tweaking anytime soon unless they plan to phase EgoBoost during it's re-fresh.

 

Then the opposite spectrum once again...the MKS with a 3.7L with 3.5L level power, couldn't at least give us DI in time...

 

So I guess for "educated" people that would be interested, have to wait for the a year later, to get the Egoboost on the MKS, and for nothing, because a year after THAT, the mid-cycle refresh will occur bringing styling changes already making the previous year look dated. Right powertrain, but at the wrong time.

 

Again, I THOUGHT Ford kinda got it with the Edge Flex and Focus introductions, but then the Escape comes out with the engine drama, as the MKS... then you THINK they got it again with the Fusion, but then screw it up with the Mustang, F150s.

 

At the end of the day, all it does is just project instability, wishy-washiness and mediocredy. I guess I just have higher standards and expect more for.

It's not a matter of excuses. It's the way businesses are run these days. ALL automakers do the same thing. We have shown you several examples already. This isn't a "Ford problem". It's just the way it is. If you don't like it, that's fine. But don't criticize Ford for a practice that is common amongst ALL major automakers.

[ANTAUS]

I'm not seeing how it's very common with ALL automakers, and not to the degree Ford does it. Ford takes it to a rediculous level.

[NickF1011]

I'm not seeing how it's very common with ALL automakers, and not to the degree Ford does it. Ford takes it to a rediculous level.

 

Ridiculous according to who, you? Okaaaaay. What exactly is the rule saying that a refreshed or redesigned vehicle needs "all-new engines!!" anyway? If the old engine works well, why replace it? Just so you can say "ALL-NEW ENGINE!!!"??

[J-150]

It's not a matter of excuses. It's the way businesses are run these days. ALL automakers do the same thing. We have shown you several examples already. This isn't a "Ford problem". It's just the way it is. If you don't like it, that's fine. But don't criticize Ford for a practice that is common amongst ALL major automakers.

 

 

 

it's not about what they do.

 

it's about the perception.

 

Toyota et al have convinced the general public that when they indtroduce a "new" model, it is from the ground up.

 

We know better, but the average shmoe doesn't.

 

Ford and GM need to do a better job of PR.

[NickF1011]

it's not about what they do.

 

it's about the perception.

 

Toyota et al have convinced the general public that when they indtroduce a "new" model, it is from the ground up.

 

We know better, but the average shmoe doesn't.

 

Ford and GM need to do a better job of PR.

 

Better PR I can agree with, but that has nothing to do with engines.

[ANTAUS]

Oh yeah the engine works, many engines works, if not they couldnt get it out of the factory, but is it truely competitive in performance to others in it's segment, is my main concern. As mentioned by J150, its perception. Gets tiring to have a great overall product and have it be raped by the media because of those types of decisions (and bad brakes too-but I think Ford has learned that one).

 

But I think we have strayed far from the original point.