Done posting here

[littletimmy]

After bashing the union all day today I realized that they do not give a fuck about the average worker. You people all stick up for Ron and the union's decisions yet they are looking for every loophole to fuck us. I know we have to give to keep the company, but the company is not giving shit. Instead of getting rid of ETAP which we would have to vote on they are suspending ETAP so we do not have to vote on it. Why? Why give up anything when Mulally isn't giving unless we use the funds. I know you will all say to get the funds but that is bullshit. Ford is just jumping on the union bashing bandwagon and taking whatever they can when we are the most afraid. The union has allowed this time and time again. When the buyouts first came out our union reps were telling people they could not influence our decisions, but it is really scary. That statement scared alot of people into the buyout, not me, but alot of people. Now with the possibility of more job losses they are playing on our fears that we have to give up things that the men before use, some better men than the ones currently in office, fought so hard to get us. Please do not get me wrong I love my job, my fellow union members and my benefits, but the days of working with the company have overshadowed the original beleifs of the union. Fight for the working man, fight with the company to get our benefits and keep them, but the new age UAW seems to give all the time while the company just takes. I say that enough is fucking enough. If this is the best the leadership can do we need better leadership or no more union.

[Twincam Harley]

After bashing the union all day today I realized that they do not give a fuck about the average worker. You people all stick up for Ron and the union's decisions yet they are looking for every loophole to fuck us. I know we have to give to keep the company, but the company is not giving shit. Instead of getting rid of ETAP which we would have to vote on they are suspending ETAP so we do not have to vote on it. Why? Why give up anything when Mulally isn't giving unless we use the funds. I know you will all say to get the funds but that is bullshit. Ford is just jumping on the union bashing bandwagon and taking whatever they can when we are the most afraid. The union has allowed this time and time again. When the buyouts first came out our union reps were telling people they could not influence our decisions, but it is really scary. That statement scared alot of people into the buyout, not me, but alot of people. Now with the possibility of more job losses they are playing on our fears that we have to give up things that the men before use, some better men than the ones currently in office, fought so hard to get us. Please do not get me wrong I love my job, my fellow union members and my benefits, but the days of working with the company have overshadowed the original beleifs of the union. Fight for the working man, fight with the company to get our benefits and keep them, but the new age UAW seems to give all the time while the company just takes. I say that enough is fucking enough. If this is the best the leadership can do we need better leadership or no more union.

 

You can "mute" yourself which is apparently what you intend to do. I don't think the point is "moot" though.

[Raws41900]

bye

[lquidspine]

After bashing the union all day today I realized that they do not give a fuck about the average worker. You people all stick up for Ron and the union's decisions yet they are looking for every loophole to fuck us. I know we have to give to keep the company, but the company is not giving shit. Instead of getting rid of ETAP which we would have to vote on they are suspending ETAP so we do not have to vote on it. Why? Why give up anything when Mulally isn't giving unless we use the funds. I know you will all say to get the funds but that is bullshit. Ford is just jumping on the union bashing bandwagon and taking whatever they can when we are the most afraid. The union has allowed this time and time again. When the buyouts first came out our union reps were telling people they could not influence our decisions, but it is really scary. That statement scared alot of people into the buyout, not me, but alot of people. Now with the possibility of more job losses they are playing on our fears that we have to give up things that the men before use, some better men than the ones currently in office, fought so hard to get us. Please do not get me wrong I love my job, my fellow union members and my benefits, but the days of working with the company have overshadowed the original beleifs of the union. Fight for the working man, fight with the company to get our benefits and keep them, but the new age UAW seems to give all the time while the company just takes. I say that enough is fucking enough. If this is the best the leadership can do we need better leadership or no more union.

What most fail to realize is pattern bargaining, that is why the Ford employees will be asked to vote on some concessions early next year. Some of what you say is true LJ the union is not what it once was, but really there is not as much to fight for as their once was either. Governmental politics is another prime example of out lived the majority of their usefulness, just as the union has to some degree. I mean the USA is not trying to start a country we have been here for hundreds of years now, just as safety and workers respect is not near how bad it once was.

 

The flip side to that is we go none union, then expect to see wages and benefits drop like a motherfucker. The truth is as much as I hate seeing good rep's fight daily for fuck ups at work, It makes me proud to know that when I actually need something done it usually will get done. I'm not saying the union is perfect by any means but point to me any one organization as large or larger than unions that is perfect, can you ?

 

I would guess not

 

Trust me I do not like everything our leadership does at every level, I have gone as far as to make a point about some of the sneaky language that was included into the 2005 COA's as well as a pay increase that was passed at the 2006 Con Con. But there are correct channels to go through, bitching on a message board attacking a certain group of people(union members) when everyone on the outside hates us is not the brightest move on your part.

What did you expect everyone here to agree with you and say fuck the UAW ?

 

But most of us realize that we are the union, the leaders are only our voice. They do have a extremely tough job right now , they need to help make the companies viable without taking everything we hold dear. If you honestly feel you can compete with lawyers and CEO's that make millions of dollars a year to do their job I suggest you start running for some offices work your way up the ladder and help the situation don't be part of the problem.

 

I to have been outspoken at times about some of the choices our leaders have made, but for now it seems they are doing the best job they can considering the circumstances. That does not mean we should take everything they say or propose as word, but have a little faith. The auto industry has survived hard times before as has the union, I am confident we will survive again.

[Wlbren]

I asked my union rep who was a good friend of mine, why he helped the people that missed work constantly, he responded that he had to help everybody because you never know for sure what their situation is, some people are on jobs that are so hard that no one will do them so they have to double the job when they are gone. So the employee stays home and gets sent to Labor Relations for awol. If he doesn't help him he will eventually get fired, because the comany has put him in a position where he can't go home when they have extra people and if he doesn't have personal days or vacation left he has no choice but to awol. I know myself that the rules were put in to protect the workers who come to work everyday, but they also protect the workers that are either bad or caught in a bad situation, which the latter happens alot more than anyone thinks.

[jerrymaker]

I think little timmy is right. this economy andthe whole industry as a whole is changing so much. each company is so diffrent, chrysler is a privite company, gm is just hanging on and ford is in trouble, but the better of them both. his point, why should we give up if we don't take the money. i know we are a union, united... but these are unprecedented times. this is just my view.

[steve morris]

After bashing the union all day today I realized that they do not give a fuck about the average worker. You people all stick up for Ron and the union's decisions yet they are looking for every loophole to fuck us. I know we have to give to keep the company, but the company is not giving shit. Instead of getting rid of ETAP which we would have to vote on they are suspending ETAP so we do not have to vote on it. Why? Why give up anything when Mulally isn't giving unless we use the funds. I know you will all say to get the funds but that is bullshit. Ford is just jumping on the union bashing bandwagon and taking whatever they can when we are the most afraid. The union has allowed this time and time again. When the buyouts first came out our union reps were telling people they could not influence our decisions, but it is really scary. That statement scared alot of people into the buyout, not me, but alot of people. Now with the possibility of more job losses they are playing on our fears that we have to give up things that the men before use, some better men than the ones currently in office, fought so hard to get us. Please do not get me wrong I love my job, my fellow union members and my benefits, but the days of working with the company have overshadowed the original beleifs of the union. Fight for the working man, fight with the company to get our benefits and keep them, but the new age UAW seems to give all the time while the company just takes. I say that enough is fucking enough. If this is the best the leadership can do we need better leadership or no more union.

 

Little Timmy.....when Ron and the CEO's were talking with the senators (not while on camera- behind closed doors), what was being discussed? When senator Corker was talking to Ron (in closed door discussions) about concessions he was demanding, what was said? When Ron, Bob King, General Holyfield, etc sat down and were weighing the different options out, what document and facts were they looking at and discussing?

The point i am trying to make is that it's real easy to sit back without all the information and complain. You said that "Ron and the Union are looking for every loop hole to fuck us." Now why in the hell would Ron and the union do that? I would really like a answer to that question if you don't mind.

Brother, I'm not sure how long you have been at Ford Motor but this isn't the first time the U.A.W. has made concessions. Yes, even the U.A.W. from the "golden years" made concessions when times were bad.

I don't want to see any of the things the U.A.W. has fought for lost anymore than you do, but we have to be realistic here. 2 of the D3 stood a very good chance of going bankrupt. No U.A.W. president has every been in that position! Does that mean give away the farm? No, but if i had to choose between suspending or even losing a few of the things we currently have OR collecting unemployment and possibly having to uproot the family to another state in order to find a new job while millions of Americans are doing the same thing, i will choose to make concessions.

How can you say "if this is the best our leadership can do, we need better leadership or no more union" ? You don't even know the end result yet! If your so easily willing to dump the U.A.W. and go non-union, I'd hate to be stuck in a fox hole with you having my back.

[Wlbren]

Little Timmy.....when Ron and the CEO's were talking with the senators (not while on camera- behind closed doors), what was being discussed? When senator Corker was talking to Ron (in closed door discussions) about concessions he was demanding, what was said? When Ron, Bob King, General Holyfield, etc sat down and were weighing the different options out, what document and facts were they looking at and discussing?

The point i am trying to make is that it's real easy to sit back without all the information and complain. You said that "Ron and the Union are looking for every loop hole to fuck us." Now why in the hell would Ron and the union do that? I would really like a answer to that question if you don't mind.

Brother, I'm not sure how long you have been at Ford Motor but this isn't the first time the U.A.W. has made concessions. Yes, even the U.A.W. from the "golden years" made concessions when times were bad.

I don't want to see any of the things the U.A.W. has fought for lost anymore than you do, but we have to be realistic here. 2 of the D3 stood a very good chance of going bankrupt. No U.A.W. president has every been in that position! Does that mean give away the farm? No, but if i had to choose between suspending or even losing a few of the things we currently have OR collecting unemployment and possibly having to uproot the family to another state in order to find a new job while millions of Americans are doing the same thing, i will choose to make concessions.

How can you say "if this is the best our leadership can do, we need better leadership or no more union" ? You don't even know the end result yet! If your so easily willing to dump the U.A.W. and go non-union, I'd hate to be stuck in a fox hole with you having my back.

I agree with you Steve we have no idea what will happen, the pattern bargaining may even come to an end, who knows, everything seems to happening in a first time for everything enviroment so I hope for the best. We are all in this together and our ship isn't leaking as bad as GM and Chrysler.

[diecaster]

After bashing the union all day today I realized that they do not give a fuck about the average worker. You people all stick up for Ron and the union's decisions yet they are looking for every loophole to fuck us. I know we have to give to keep the company, but the company is not giving shit. Instead of getting rid of ETAP which we would have to vote on they are suspending ETAP so we do not have to vote on it. Why? Why give up anything when Mulally isn't giving unless we use the funds. I know you will all say to get the funds but that is bullshit. Ford is just jumping on the union bashing bandwagon and taking whatever they can when we are the most afraid. The union has allowed this time and time again. When the buyouts first came out our union reps were telling people they could not influence our decisions, but it is really scary. That statement scared alot of people into the buyout, not me, but alot of people. Now with the possibility of more job losses they are playing on our fears that we have to give up things that the men before use, some better men than the ones currently in office, fought so hard to get us. Please do not get me wrong I love my job, my fellow union members and my benefits, but the days of working with the company have overshadowed the original beleifs of the union. Fight for the working man, fight with the company to get our benefits and keep them, but the new age UAW seems to give all the time while the company just takes. I say that enough is fucking enough. If this is the best the leadership can do we need better leadership or no more union.

Littletimmy dont let them get you down you have some valid points. We should not be giving shit if the higher ups dont give

[snatchblock]

Not one mothergraber has said one damn thing about selling cheaper cars. Lower the price already.But everyone feels sold out. This is a how it feels This is our great battle. This is our hardship. No life is perfect. Thank god. The son of a bitch would never shut up. We just need to pray that God will crush the wicked. And that Vets school teachers and all those fuckers that earn a living on our tax money open their fucking eyes.And it will get better when the big o rides in. Hold on for a month. things will get better. Or we will just start taking from those asshole

[steve morris]

Not one mothergraber has said one damn thing about selling cheaper cars. Lower the price already.But everyone feels sold out. This is a how it feels This is our great battle. This is our hardship. No life is perfect. Thank god. The son of a bitch would never shut up. We just need to pray that God will crush the wicked. And that Vets school teachers and all those fuckers that earn a living on our tax money open their fucking eyes.And it will get better when the big o rides in. Hold on for a month. things will get better. Or we will just start taking from those asshole

 

Not trying to start a argument but i think when we lump all the vets, school teachers, etc into one group that buys foreign auto's and mother fuck them, we make ourselves look ignorant. Not all people in these classifications buy foreign. What i am trying to say is be careful on how you say things, i know people that work for the public schools and wouldn't think about driving foreign. They hear auto people mf them and get offended and ask why they are all being lumped together. If you really want to show your anger at someone, it should be the people that work for the D3 and buy foreign. These people don't have a clue or could care less. It would be hard for me to have much sympathy for them if they got laid off. But i do agree, these people (regardless of what profession) that buy foreign need to wake up and realize what they are doing. The claim of buying foreign for better quality no longer exists if they just took the time to investigate the truth.

 

P.S> for all you union bashers, there aren't a lot of D3 employees stupid enough to buy foreign autos so don't try to go there!

[steve morris]

Die caster... i should know better than to ask this question but i am bored to death. Soooo.... what valid points (other than higher ups should have to give some things up also), did Little Timmy make?

[fordworker]

After bashing the union all day today I realized that they do not give a fuck about the average worker. You people all stick up for Ron and the union's decisions yet they are looking for every loophole to fuck us. I know we have to give to keep the company, but the company is not giving shit. Instead of getting rid of ETAP which we would have to vote on they are suspending ETAP so we do not have to vote on it. Why? Why give up anything when Mulally isn't giving unless we use the funds. I know you will all say to get the funds but that is bullshit. Ford is just jumping on the union bashing bandwagon and taking whatever they can when we are the most afraid. The union has allowed this time and time again. When the buyouts first came out our union reps were telling people they could not influence our decisions, but it is really scary. That statement scared alot of people into the buyout, not me, but alot of people. Now with the possibility of more job losses they are playing on our fears that we have to give up things that the men before use, some better men than the ones currently in office, fought so hard to get us. Please do not get me wrong I love my job, my fellow union members and my benefits, but the days of working with the company have overshadowed the original beleifs of the union. Fight for the working man, fight with the company to get our benefits and keep them, but the new age UAW seems to give all the time while the company just takes. I say that enough is fucking enough. If this is the best the leadership can do we need better leadership or no more union.

You have no time in so QUIT because JSP is gone in 09 and there will be no more $100K buyouts.

[Wlbren]

Die caster... i should know better than to ask this question but i am bored to death. Soooo.... what valid points (other than higher ups should have to give some things up also), did Little Timmy make?

hey Steve I am laughing my ass off, cause I can see you saying those words to someone, the economy has us sitting at home this shutdown instead of working through it, happy new year, cause we won't be bored when we go back on the 5th.

[steve morris]

hey Steve I am laughing my ass off, cause I can see you saying those words to someone, the economy has us sitting at home this shutdown instead of working through it, happy new year, cause we won't be bored when we go back on the 5th.

 

Lol, there are a lot of things i would like to be doing but don't want to spend the money doing them. So here i sit bored to death until the 5th. Happy New Year to you my Brother. Be Safe!

[Dale143]

Straight from the horses mouth.

http://www.truveo.com/Gettelfinger-address...ia/id/517887886

[Dale143]

Gettlelfinger videos

http://www.allvoices.com/people/Ron_Gettel...&filter=all

[Dale143]

Websters dictionary:

suspend denotes the breaking off of proceedings, privileges, etc. for a time, sometimes for such an indefinite time as to suggest cancellation to suspend train service,or to suspend a sentence

 

So this suspension may hopefully be temporary.

Edited December 31, 2008 by Dale143

[DTPmustangdriver]

I agree with you Steve we have no idea what will happen, the pattern bargaining may even come to an end, who knows, everything seems to happening in a first time for everything enviroment so I hope for the best. We are all in this together and our ship isn't leaking as bad as GM and Chrysler.

:reading: Never could understand why as the UAW approached a time to strike, all of us would not strike. I find it interesting that GM and Chrysler are the two companies that have had been hit by strikes over the years and they are hurt the worst now. I know Ford had strikes in the 70's, but nothing like the other two companies. I wonder if the contracts would have been different if we all supported the strikes? Any thoughts?

[Wlbren]

:reading: Never could understand why as the UAW approached a time to strike, all of us would not strike. I find it interesting that GM and Chrysler are the two companies that have had been hit by strikes over the years and they are hurt the worst now. I know Ford had strikes in the 70's, but nothing like the other two companies. I wonder if the contracts would have been different if we all supported the strikes? Any thoughts?

We never voted against strikes, the negotiating was always done before the strike deadline or the deadline was extended because they were close. If there was a strike and not every local went on strike it was because the international decided it should be a targeted strike, not our call.

[dork270]

And that VETS school teachers and all those fuckers that earn a living on our tax money open their fucking eyes.And it will get better when the big o rides in. Hold on for a month. things will get better. Or we will just start taking from those asshole

 

You should get on your knees and thank a vet. Instead, you want to be a classless piece of crap. Who are you to tell a vet what to buy? Or anyone for that matter! I've said it before and i'll say it again......Get off your high horse! I bet you go to Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and every other union hating place there is. Don't be a hypocrite!

Edited January 2, 2009 by dork270

[mikem12]

Not one mothergraber has said one damn thing about selling cheaper cars. Lower the price already.But everyone feels sold out. This is a how it feels This is our great battle. This is our hardship. No life is perfect. Thank god. The son of a bitch would never shut up. We just need to pray that God will crush the wicked. And that Vets school teachers and all those fuckers that earn a living on our tax money open their fucking eyes.And it will get better when the big o rides in. Hold on for a month. things will get better. Or we will just start taking from those asshole

 

Well big'in since you brought up a few particular people, of which I am one, that being a Vet I can with a great deal of surety that the only reason you are allowed to criticize any one any where is because of those low life Vets. so you can take your self centered, poor little me crap and stick back in there with your head.

[mikem12]

We never voted against strikes, the negotiating was always done before the strike deadline or the deadline was extended because they were close. If there was a strike and not every local went on strike it was because the international decided it should be a targeted strike, not our call.

 

I can't recall any vote that didn't support a strike if it was needed.

Edited January 3, 2009 by mikem12

[Wlbren]

I can't recall any vote that didn't support a strike if it was needed.

thats what I was trying to say, we voted for them but never, havent been on strike since I've been at ford at least at KC, maybe other targeted plants, we always vote for it would be ugly if we voted against striking

[steve morris]

I asked my union rep who was a good friend of mine, why he helped the people that missed work constantly, he responded that he had to help everybody because you never know for sure what their situation is, some people are on jobs that are so hard that no one will do them so they have to double the job when they are gone. So the employee stays home and gets sent to Labor Relations for awol. If he doesn't help him he will eventually get fired, because the comany has put him in a position where he can't go home when they have extra people and if he doesn't have personal days or vacation left he has no choice but to awol. I know myself that the rules were put in to protect the workers who come to work everyday, but they also protect the workers that are either bad or caught in a bad situation, which the latter happens alot more than anyone thinks.

 

I don't buy that. When you hired into Ford Motor, you most likely weren't given the best job in the house. Low seniority works that way. You start off on the worst job and as you gain seniority, you moved your way up. The rules do not protect the workers that are "bad" or cought in a "bad situation". If these people miss to much work, the only reason they don't get hammered is because the boss don't do his job or the comnmitteeman becomes his crutch. Either way, it's not right. I'm all for helping people out, but you have to draw a line somewhere. I know that there are some bad jobs out there, but people have done them prior and people will do them after the person who misses a lot of time. I agree that if you have someone who don't normally miss much time and they start getting themselves in a jam with attendance, you should try to find out why and offer help in any way you can. But even then, you can only help so much. Just my 2 cents.