retro-man Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I asked a simple question...how many poor people have you worked for?.... Only as a volunteer. Only as a volunteer. How about you? Anyway, the issue (back to the "shakedown"; the millions losing their homes, who will have them scooped up for dimes on the dollar by "investors") is really about the middle class. Your question expresses your on-going faith in trickle-down just fine, but it evades the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) I don't blame everything on Fox news and Rush Limbaugh, maybe that's just the echoes your hearing from the folds in your colon? Excuse me? You're a deluded far right wing revisionist kook, and you speak like one too. Well that's exactly what you fringe right wingers do. When you can refute my posts with facts instead of ad hominen attacks, please let me know. Since you obviously can't, you resort to name-calling. It might be a good idea to refrain from commenting on certain topics until your knowledge of the subject matter at hand and debating skills progress beyond name-calling and braying about "right wingers." Edited January 20, 2009 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Only as a volunteer. Only as a volunteer. How about you? Anyway, the issue (back to the "shakedown"; the millions losing their homes, who will have them scooped up for dimes on the dollar by "investors") is really about the middle class. Your question expresses your on-going faith in trickle-down just fine, but it evades the issue. People lost their homes because of irresponsible decisions they made......no one put a gun to their head and made them sign a mortgage that they knew they could not afford....it is not my responsiblity to bail them out...... how many poor people do you know that invest in the capital markets?.......when you bought your first home...did you pay cash or did you borrow money like most of us.....where did that money come from.... poor people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Only as a volunteer. Only as a volunteer. How about you? Anyway, the issue (back to the "shakedown"; the millions losing their homes, who will have them scooped up for dimes on the dollar by "investors") is really about the middle class. Your question expresses your on-going faith in trickle-down just fine, but it evades the issue. You didn't ask me, but, that's never stopped anyone on this site before, soooo..... I work with the poor occasionally in my job, and have worked with them as on a volunteer basis. But I cannot say that I have worked with them regularly. The ones I have worked with through my job are a mixed bag. Some desperately need help, and are trying the best they can. But a fair number need a good, swift kick in the pants more than anything else. When I worked for a major, national telecommunications carrier in the 1990s, I worked on some projects with the Collections Department. Local telephone service is heavily regulated in Pennsylvania, meaning service could not be immediately disconnected for nonpayment of bills. The Public Utility Commission (PUC) had designated telephone service as an essential service, which meant that it could not be immediately disconnected for nonpayment of bills (cellphone were still not that common at the time, so people were very dependent on landlines for telephone service). Companies were expected to work with the customer to get the money. Not following specific procedures could result in a sanction - and fine - by the PUC, especially for premature termination of service. The Collections Department service representatives regularly told me that most people in trouble were honest and couldn't pay their bills because of a setback (divorce, death of a spouse, illness, loss of job, etc.). But a persistent segment - about 10 percent - were plain old deadbeats, and used every scam in the book to get free service. Interestingly, those who had a valid reason for failing to pay their bills were the least likely to complain or seek help, because they were embarrassed and ashamed of their situation. The deadbeats were the ones who were loud, rude and expected a handout. As one service representative quipped, "If they put as much money into finding a job and keeping it as they do in avoiding payment of their phone bill, they'd be millionaires!". My wife works as a special education teacher in an urban district, and prior to that she was a social worker for our home county, which includes a medium-size city, suburbs and rural areas. Her co-teacher has worked in this same district for well over a decade. Most of their students are poor, minority students from the city. Her aides are mostly women who went from welfare to work, but still receive some form of government assistance (because they are single mothers). When she gets together with said teacher or former co-workers from her social work days in a private setting, let's just say that they are more exasperated than anything else, and they are not blaming George W. Bush, Republicans, trickle-down economics, rich people, Wall Street or free trade for the woes of the poor. As she puts it, "It's the attitude of entitlement that gets to me more than anything else. I don't mind helping people, but I expect people to help themselves, too, and they need to remember that no one owes them anything." And I'm inclined to take her word for this, given that she is on the front lines every day, often using OUR money to provide materials for her students or even pay for therapeutic outings (swimming and horseback riding, for example) for her students. The simple fact is that to work with poor people who have no real interest in improving their lot is an exercise in frustration, occassionally tinged with moments of hope. And among a large segment of the truly poor is a tremendous attitude of entitlement that is more than a little off-putting. As for the housing sector - it was artificially inflated by a credit bubble. The simple fact is that too many people who bought houses could not afford them, especially in places like California and the Beltway suburbs around Washington, D.C., and Baltimore. Adjusting their mortgages will not keep them in their homes. If you make $60,000 a year, you cannot afford a $400,000 house, unless you are bringing about $250,000 to the closing. Jiggling the interest rate will only forestall the inevitable, not keep these people in their homes (which are really owned by the bank anyway). The bubble fed on itself by keeping housing prices high, and thus out of reach of many customers with good credit. The simple fact is that housing prices need to become aligned with income once again. This is what is happening. The last thing this country needs is a measure that artificially props up housing prices. The idea that "real estate always rises" is a myth, and one that fed a lot of unrealistic expectations and bad economic practices (using houses as ATMs to buy cars or pay off credit card debt, for example). As someone who has voiced concern over income gains, you should especially concerned about this, because much of the consumption over the past decade was fueled by home equity loans, not income gains. When people sign their lives away on 40-year mortgages for a piece of ground and shelter, something is seriously wrong. No one should be a slave to their house, but unless prices fall, most prospective buyers will be. My wife and I are looking for a larger house, but we are not going to give up everything just to have the privilege of saying this place is "ours" (when it really isn't - it's the bank's until we pay off the mortgage). If those investors buy houses, they will lose money, too, if prices continue to fall - which they most likely will. I could not care less if investors lose money. The simple fact is that housing prices need to fall, this correction is bringing about that result, and lots of people, banks and investors need to learn some hard lessons. Lesson one is that houses are SHELTER and a PLACE TO LIVE - not an investment, not an ATM machine, not a way to get rich quick. Edited January 20, 2009 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 And so, history, has become, reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 As many as 4 million expected to be at Obama's inauguration Here you go....not sure if you believe it... Barack Obama stood before a hushed nation, raised his right hand and recited the 39-word oath to make history as the 44th president of the United States and the first African-American to assume the Oval Office. The 44th president delivers his inaugural address outside of the U.S. Capitol. More PhotosObama's historic moment -- and one that is a milestone for the nation -- was witnessed by an estimated 1.4 million throng on the National Mall, which erupted into cheers and a blizzard of American flags as he uttered the words "so help me God" at the conclusion of the oath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94bronco Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I just wonder what will be left of this country after this administration is gone, It will just continue the spread of the philosophy that the government can fix everything with bailouts and handouts. The Democrats are trying to make it a society where there are more people that depend on government handouts than there are of people that the government depends on for tax money, This is a scheme by the Democrats to put the government in control of everything and lose America as we know it. What reason is there left to get off your ass and do something anymore? The sheep are now realizing that they can just sit around and do nothing and receive their government handouts now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Here you go....not sure if you believe it... Surprising there there was such a relatively small number of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Surprising there there was such a relatively small number of people. Thats all rather relative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The Democrats are trying to make it a society where there are more people that depend on government handouts than there are of people that the government depends on for tax money, This is a scheme by the Democrats to put the government in control of everything and lose America as we know it. I'm by no means a Obama backer but who is the person who just left office that had the biggest Socialist impact on this country? Could it be Bush's bailout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 When you can refute my posts with facts instead of ad hominen attacks, please let me know. Since you obviously can't, you resort to name-calling. What is there to refute? Your posts aren't condescending???? c'mon! Your entire defense of the Iraq war is what? That some spineless Democrats said saddam might have WMD's too? What kind of defense is that? Why would you even want to defend what the BA has done? It might be a good idea to refrain from commenting on certain topics until your knowledge of the subject matter at hand and debating skills progress beyond name-calling and braying about "right wingers." I could say the same about you and the "evil liberal blogs"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Recession? ......what recession?.. I didn't know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) What is there to refute? Your posts aren't condescending???? c'mon! Your entire defense of the Iraq war is what? That some spineless Democrats said saddam might have WMD's too? What kind of defense is that? Why would you even want to defend what the BA has done? I could say the same about you and the "evil liberal blogs"... If you don't know what there is to refute, there is nothing that I or anyone else can do to help you. You can say the same things about me, but, once again, you'd be wrong, so your pathetic attempt would be the equivalent of "So is your mother." Whether my posts are condescending is not your concern. You need to be concerned about your woeful ignorance of the facts. When ignorance isn't corrected, contempt is called for, and, quite frankly, that is what your posts deserve. The entire Iraq War is considerably more complicated than you make it out to be, but I realize that a more sophisticated analysis beyond "Bush lied" or "Republicans are bad" is quite beyond your limited capabilities. And given that you have repeatedly claimed that Bush "lied" about the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the fact that many Democrats - including the Clinton Administration - believed that said weapons were present IS relevant, even if you can't understand this. You need to stick to talking about cars. Your ignorance doesn't show quite as much there. Or else convincing everyone that eating meat is bad, although, in your case, your "thinking" processes might benefit from the ingestion of some lean protein. Edited January 21, 2009 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) What is there to refute? Your posts aren't condescending???? c'mon! Your entire defense of the Iraq war is what? That some spineless Democrats said saddam might have WMD's too? What kind of defense is that? Why would you even want to defend what the BA has done? I could say the same about you and the "evil liberal blogs"... I will say that I do appreciate the comic relief you provide each and every day...so keep those hits a comin'! Edited January 21, 2009 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 the new Treasury Sect. said he was sorry for not paying his taxes.....I thought poeple went to jail for that...not get cabinet positions... LINK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 He paid his taxes in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 He paid his taxes in the end. he had to in order to get the job.....why else would he have waited?......has anyone ever told you that you are gualable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I try to see the best in people. I also realize that the people in government are just that, people. They are not perfect and we should not expect protection from them. He has apologized. If he really meant it, that's very admirable. If he didn't we'll find that out soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I try to see the best in people. I also realize that the people in government are just that, people. They are not perfect and we should not expect protection from them. He has apologized. If he really meant it, that's very admirable. If he didn't we'll find that out soon enough. Oh, I'm sure he meant it.....I mean after all he did say how sorry he was......and you are right his is a people...and peoples make mistakes....they prisons are full of those kinds of peoples...but I don't think that he should be rewarded for not paying his taxes by giving him a job running the peoles who collect these taxes......I mean after all a child molester only made a mistake, why should that keep him from working in your child's daycare....he said he was sorry..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Oh, I'm sure he meant it.... He said that it was as a result of unintentional errors. Until I have a reason not to, I'll take him at his word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 He said that it was as a result of unintentional errors. Until I have a reason not to, I'll take him at his word. Obviously you have access to a computer, I would suggest that you read the story...he made blantant errors.....this guy has a master's degree in International economics, serves as CEO of a Federal Reserve Bank...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) I don't understand how he could make that kind of "error". I know I would not have. Everyone knows SS and medicare taxes have to be paid for so called self employed people. Yourself as well as household employees. He seems to be a talented person, and we need that. But I think if I were Obama, I would find someone else for the job. Edited January 22, 2009 by Ralph Greene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) He paid his taxes in the end. Actually, he paid back 2 years of owed taxes...and with absolutely no penalty. I believe there is still another 2 years of unpaid taxes that are unaccounted for. Did he mistakenly overlook those too? Again? And this all after his accountant told him he had to pay the taxes in the first place and he ignored the advice. Edited January 22, 2009 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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