MichiganTruck_Mafia Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 http://www.freep.com/article/20090214/BUSI...l+in+loan+talks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Looks like the chance of bankruptcy just went up. The UAW won't accept what the bondholders are asked to give up, and rightly so. The VEBA wouldn't have a chance under the bondholders percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Looks like the chance of bankruptcy just went up. The UAW won't accept what the bondholders are asked to give up, and rightly so. The VEBA wouldn't have a chance under the bondholders percentage. I was apprehensive about the VEBA in the first place, now they are attempting to back peddle on it's initial terms WTF? The only consolation I can offer the retirees is that I saw that it was a bad deal, and I voted "NO" on the last contract! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra6 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 http://www.freep.com/article/20090214/BUSI...l+in+loan+talks http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090214/ts_nm/us_gm_plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale143 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090214/ts_nm/us_gm_plan http://www.mlive.com/business/mid-michigan...s_flint_tr.html http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...8r5nCQD96BIQR02 Edited February 14, 2009 by Dale143 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 "And the automakers want the trust to pick up their retiree health care costs for this year" Thats funny GM has not made one payment into the VEBA fund yet. "Bondholders had complained in recent weeks that the union was getting a better deal for its health care obligations than they were being offered for their bonds" Again GM has not contributed one penny into the fund, at least Ford has made their payments to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) "And the automakers want the trust to pick up their retiree health care costs for this year" Thats funny GM has not made one payment into the VEBA fund yet. "Bondholders had complained in recent weeks that the union was getting a better deal for its health care obligations than they were being offered for their bonds" Again GM has not contributed one penny into the fund, at least Ford has made their payments to date. You read me the riot act once,now will you listen to me?Conceptually you are lacking in oversight.You 'slammed me' with two weak points when all I was saying was that I personally do not trust a Ford SER package.Number one,you said "You should read the contract the UAW guaranteed health care for retirees with VEBA".I am not given a copy of the contract only vague Letters of Understanding.I did see a much more explicit,simplified book at Wixom.This book was given ONLY to Local 36 committee persons.Second, you see where the cost savings are?It is not the current wages of the UAW that is the main problem.It is Legacy Costs!Ford now has a two-tiered wage system and yes 20% of current employees is a large enough number to have an influence in future contracts.Right now,what is the plan?Sit tight and 'call the companies bankruptcy bluff'.Welcome to the United Stress of America Edited February 15, 2009 by Fatso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Bennet Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 "And the automakers want the trust to pick up their retiree health care costs for this year" Thats funny GM has not made one payment into the VEBA fund yet. "Bondholders had complained in recent weeks that the union was getting a better deal for its health care obligations than they were being offered for their bonds" Again GM has not contributed one penny into the fund, at least Ford has made their payments to date. Why doesn't the UAW take GM stock for the VEBA? If the UAW doesn't value GM stock then why should Wall Street? If the UAW says no, its the end of GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) You read me the riot act once,now will you listen to me?Conceptually you are lacking in oversight.You 'slammed me' with two weak points when all I was saying was that I personally do not trust a Ford SER package.Number one,you said "You should read the contract the UAW guaranteed health care for retirees with VEBA".I am not given a copy of the contract only vague Letters of Understanding.I did see a much more explicit,simplified book at Wixom.This book was given ONLY to Local 36 committee persons.Second, you see where the cost savings are?It is not the current wages of the UAW that is the main problem.It is Legacy Costs!Ford now has a two-tiered wage system and yes 20% of current employees is a large enough number to have an influence in future contracts.Right now,what is the plan?Sit tight and 'call the companies bankruptcy bluff'.Welcome to the United Stress of America Nothing in my post was even directed at you Fatso so why the are you directing your post at me bro ? I don't trust a VEBA never have even though I recognize the cost saving for the companies with this program in place. My worry has always been about the longevity of the retiree health care with the implementation of a VEBA. I never said "You should read the contract the UAW guaranteed health care for retirees with VEBA". While I am sure i have told people to read the contract I have never said it will guaranteed retiree health care, I honestly never believed the 80 year number that leadership swears it will last. Now on to Mr. Bennet "Why doesn't the UAW take GM stock for the VEBA? If the UAW doesn't value GM stock then why should Wall Street? If the UAW says no, its the end of GM" My point was very simple on this thread some of you are looking too deep into things. My point was this; The bond holders want the workers to accept more stocks into a fund that in GM and Chrysler's case has 1- Never been funded just like the lack of foresight the companies have had for the legacy costs they knew where coming for years that got them in this mess to begin with. 2- The bond holders unwillingness to accept any concessions themselves and expect the union workers to once again bare all the brunt of managements lack of leadership time and time again. Legacy costs are the single biggest cost disadvantage between domestics and transplants, these costs did not happen just in 2008. These costs have been mounting for years , decades even but again the top of the food chain always expects the workers to pay the price of managements/stakeholders lack of foresight. Well I for one am sick of it , either we all give stuff up or we all fail together and if this weekends reports are any indication on how the higher end stakeholders feel; it is apparent they choose failure. Edited February 15, 2009 by lquidspine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpmaster Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) Why doesn't the UAW take GM stock for the VEBA? If the UAW doesn't value GM stock then why should Wall Street? If the UAW says no, its the end of GM Hopefully, we'll see the end of useless postings from harry "I know everything and it's all the UAW's fault" bennet! Edited February 15, 2009 by Pumpmaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Why doesn't the UAW take GM stock for the VEBA? If the UAW doesn't value GM stock then why should Wall Street? If the UAW says no, its the end of GM Retires worked for GM all their lives. They were given guarantees of health care coverage after retirement. That money is supposed to be there whether GM survives or not. It was part of their working wages that was supposedly put away for them because the union did not believe that they were capable of looking after their own money, and it was safer in the company's hands. I don't trust anybody with my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Why doesn't the UAW take GM stock for the VEBA? If the UAW doesn't value GM stock then why should Wall Street? If the UAW says no, its the end of GM The UAW is taking stock. The problem is, they are trying to negotiate a lower amount. The VEBA is already taking about 50% of what is owed to the retirees, and the bondholders want them to take less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makeastand Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 It really pisses me off when I read the posts at the bottom of those articles. The public slams the UAW and all auto workers. They say we are "unskilled" and "uneducated". What a poor assumption. Even if it were true I just don't see why anyone would hold a grudge against another person because they have a better job. Why in the hell do those people wish for doom on others? How is it ok for execs to make millions upon millions and receive millions more in bonuses for sinking their companies, but it is a crime for a blue collar worker to make a living wage? One guy said that he would do our job for $14 an hour and few benefits and be happy to do so. I've seen several temps come into Ford making $20 an hour and at first break they say "this work is too rough for me and $20 an hour isn't worth it," and quit. I realize that there are no jobs out there right now but if my job was too rough for you to do yesterday then I've got news for ya, they turned the line speed up! As far as the VEBA goes, yea that was a bad idea from the get go. Now the big 3 expect to get something for nothing at the expense of retiree’s health. On one hand GM says we want to give you this all but worthless stock for your healthcare, then on the other hand they say "we may still file chapter 11". If I'm not mistaken the stock would be discontinued if they file for bankruptcy and if I'm right about that then the VEBA would be where it is today. Zero balance. If the stock was not discontinued then it would join the ever growing pile of penny stocks so either way it seems to me that it would be impossible for GM retirees VEBA plan to take over this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganTruck_Mafia Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Looks like the Tuesday deadline might get extended. “Still, we expect the Obama administration to give GM the benefit of the doubt, and either extend the deadline or show flexibility toward the demonstration of progress to viability.” http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...2#pluckcomments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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