GT-Keith Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I thought the TwinForce 3.5L would be making 415+hp and the single turbo v6 would make 340hp... So there will be no single turbo 3.5? And when will the Ecoboost 4cylinder be out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Well now you have a twin turbo putting out 365 hp. There is huge potential in that engine, don't be surprised to see lots of 500 hp examples in a few years time once the after market gets going, I predict they will become more popular than small blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 EcoBoost I4 should be in North America Fords in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Well now you have a twin turbo putting out 365 hp.There is huge potential in that engine, don't be surprised to see lots of 500 hp examples in a few years time once the after market gets going, I predict they will become more popular than small blocks. EcoBoost I4 should be in North America Fords in 2011. I wonder where and why all of a sudden these HP numbers have ballooned like they have. I mean 30 years ago, it was basically the same engine. Compression ratio's were 9.5/11 to 1. And published figures for HP would be 160/190. Now the same size engine is 260/280+ HP. That's just a generalization, but I was just trying to show an example. Did they make it easier to allow higher numbers to be printed? Now, the magic bullet is called Ego-Boost. Remember the horror and fear inherent in a Turbo engine? Oil sitting and cooking. Now they have thrown on 2 turbo's for a V6 and one for a 4 cylinder. Taken the fuel injectors from a diesel and gave it a green name. Just changed the name mind you, from Twin-FORCE to ECO-Boost. So a customer walks in a showroom, the salesman sales Ego-Boost, says it has a turbo and the customer says oh cool, nice. What has changed? All Aluminum Block / Heads. 4 Cams now in the heads, No Pushrods. Direct fuel dispersal within the cylinders and atmospheric pressure augmentation. I hope it all works, I don't see a problem with the direct-injection, it's once again with the Turbo's. I also think this is the last step to squeezing out any more fuel usage from the engine's. The next step has to be with downsizing and lightening the vehicle body's. That whine you hear about 2013, might not be from the turbo's spooling up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) I wonder where and why all of a sudden these HP numbers have ballooned like they have. I mean 30 years ago, it was basically the same engine. Compression ratio's were 9.5/11 to 1. And published figures for HP would be 160/190. Now the same size engine is 260/280+ HP. That's just a generalization, but I was just trying to show an example. Did they make it easier to allow higher numbers to be printed? Engine horsepower numbers haven't all of a sudden ballooned, the US ignored turbos for 20 years. Shows how far engine development and engine computer management has come. Water cooled centre bearings on the turbos make them almost idiot proof - no idle down required. Edited February 21, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I can hear my brother -in-law the ex-trucker now, "I wouldn't buy one of those damn things. You have to let a turbo idle for five minutes before you shut it down. How's that supposed to save gas?" :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 That Taurus SHO is going to be a real weapon, I wonder if there will be a Fusion SHO as well, that would be an amazing ride!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I can hear my brother -in-law the ex-trucker now, "You have to let a turbo idle for five minutes before you shut it down." Old truckers tale. These engines have undergone extensive testing, under normal and extreme conditions, with no special start up or shutdown procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) There is huge potential in that engine, don't be surprised to see lots of 500 hp examples in a few years... 500 street and emission legal horsepower out of same Duratec 3.5L engine ! Not even burning massive quantities of E85. I think you have gotten into the loco-weed :rolleyes: ! Edited February 21, 2009 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Have none of you guys heard of a turbo timer before? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_timer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 500 street and emission legal horsepower out of same Duratec 3.5L engine ! Not even burning massive quantities of E85. I think you have gotten into the loco-weed :rolleyes: ! Loco weed? So no V6 engine that's emission legal can make power on gasoline above 365 hp? Wouldn't it be easier for a turbo engine with geometric power delivery to meet emission regs than something like Ford's S/C 5.4 or GM's s/C 6.2 putting out over 600 hp? Or maybe the myriad of after market S/C kits for Ford and GM V8s are all illegal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Have none of you guys heard of a turbo timer before? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_timer It's a thing of the past, water cooled center bearings on the turbos stops the oil frying the bearings. It's been around since the early to mid 1990s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I thought the TwinForce 3.5L would be making 415+hp and the single turbo v6 would make 340hp... So there will be no single turbo 3.5? And when will the Ecoboost 4cylinder be out? Well, if you've seen the torque 'mesa' for the SHO, it's fairly clear that Ford is capping torque output out of concern for the transmission. While a warranteeable 500hp may not be available from the 3.5EB, I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see it exceeding 400hp in special RWD applications: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) This looks so much like the discussions in 2002 when the Falcon XR6 Turbo was introduced. Once your after market parts suppliers catch on, the sky is the limit for performance. The SHO will become a cult car and Ford's fortunes will begin to soar........ Don't worry too much about the gearbox capacity, once the after market knows what eventually breaks they will develop stronger parts for those bullet proof set ups. Edited February 21, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hey, I know that guy in this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Old truckers tale. These engines have undergone extensive testing, under normal and extreme conditions, with no special start up or shutdown procedures. I know that. Just trying to point out that a lot of people will not accept that technology does change with the times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) I know that. Just trying to point out that a lot of people will not accept that technology does change with the times. It's hard to prove either way, I think that's where the neighbour owning one steps in. True, turbos are something people have to get used but there will be plenty straight in the deep end too.... Here's an example of that territory you disses on another thread: Edited February 22, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Have none of you guys heard of a turbo timer before? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_timer Likely not needed with water cooled turbos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomaro Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 This thing will be a beast 0-60...even 0-100. Should be nice to leave the line even with the SRT Cherokee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 This thing will be a beast 0-60...even 0-100. Should be nice to leave the line even with the SRT Cherokee. Especially in the damp with AWD....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Well, if you've seen the torque 'mesa' for the SHO, it's fairly clear that Ford is capping torque output out of concern for the transmission. While a warranteeable 500hp may not be available from the 3.5EB, I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see it exceeding 400hp in special RWD applications: My thoughts exactly about the Capped Torque. Uncapping won't raise the hp alone because the current EB engine does not seem to need to be capped at maximum rpm. But I think they could still have a significant boost in torque. Raising maximum hp would require larger turbos resulting in less torque under 2000 rpm. With a 6 speed transmission in a non-luxury vehicle, this may not be that bad. My question is how are they capping the torque? Is it the from the waste gate only? Or maybe using the cam timing, etc as well. I would think the need for boost control may be even more important in the EcoBoost to prevent detonation.(Over boost with high compression) Although my theory is that they should be able to over boost for short periods of time and control detonation with DI and a Rich fuel/air ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) My thoughts exactly about the Capped Torque. Uncapping won't raise the hp alone because the current EB engine does not seem to need to be capped at maximum rpm. But I think they could still have a significant boost in torque. Raising maximum hp would require larger turbos resulting in less torque under 2000 rpm. With a 6 speed transmission in a non-luxury vehicle, this may not be that bad. My question is how are they capping the torque? Is it the from the waste gate only? Or maybe using the cam timing, etc as well. I would think the need for boost control may be even more important in the EcoBoost to prevent detonation.(Over boost with high compression) Although my theory is that they should be able to over boost for short periods of time and control detonation with DI and a Rich fuel/air ratio. FoA caps it torque electronically through waste gate, Ecoboost quotes a maximum of 12 psi boost and you can bet it's mostly 8-10 psi under regulation. Traditional after market turbo engine upgrades and exhaust will see torque and horsepower soar. The twin turbos may not necessarily need to be changed, no doubt in a few years, tune shops will have an awsome range of kits for buyers to chose from. GM and Chrysler has nothing to offer once CAFE gets hold of their V8 engines.............. Edited February 22, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Old truckers tale. These engines have undergone extensive testing, under normal and extreme conditions, with no special start up or shutdown procedures. Kind of off topic, but do you know if the powerstrokers have the "water cooled center bearing" in the turbos? I always let my 6.0 idle down for about a minute under normal driving, longer if I'm towing heavy or driving the piss out of it.. per the owner's manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 So no V6 engine that's emission legal can make power on gasoline above 365 hp? I guess you are having a hard time reading what I wrote. 500 street and emission legal horsepower out of same Duratec 3.5L engine ! I got $100 that says Ford will never release a production, street and emission legal, 500 horsepower version of the Duratec 35. Aftermarket, who knows. If you can spin the engine up to 9-10,000 rpm and keep the turbos still pumping anything is possible ... for a few minutes ! :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) While a warranteeable 500hp may not be available from the 3.5EB, I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see it exceeding 400hp in special RWD applications: Probably not with those turbos ! If that chart is accurate (it does not come from a Ford site and why is the peak torque listed at 3,500, when it shows a flat line from 1,800 to 5,500 rpm ?), the drop off in torque around 5,500 rpm shows that those turbos can not keep up. Larger turbos will mean the torque won't peak as early, but will keep pumping long past 6,000 rpm. What was the redline on the old Yamaha V6 SHO, something like 8,500 ? Edited February 22, 2009 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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