Furious1Auto Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Guys, simma down now! We've got enough elements fighting against us, we don't need to fight each other! Back to your corners. Furious, you can make it easy on yourself. When you get important information such as this, just post it on FFF and then no one needs to worry about anyone being offended by an offhand remark. Waldo, you can make it easy on yourself, just put Furious on ignore and then neither of you have to have any dealings with the other. Now, back to our regularly scheduled programs: I liked the YouTube option, but you right Mary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoardpm Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Looks like they are getting ready to gut the rest of the Ford employees like they did us in Tulsa. I'm on PLRP so I get to vote I guess. I'll vote "no". I work at KCAP and we have alot of the transfers from Tulsa. I'm not sure what you mean by "gut" you guys got a better offer than any Ford plant there is. You were offerd 140k and a 19 dollar an hour job with a reduction in insurance. I hope I havent misread your post....but you guys have nothing to complain about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Listen dude you attacked me first, I really didn't care for your posture and had to edit my post to calm my reaction. I'll put it like this, if you would like to meet in person so we can beat out our frustrations then name a time and place. I will have my girlfriend video tape the whole confrontation so it can be uploaded to YouTube and posted on both BOF and FFF! Whatever...Ass. I suppose you are the gift to everything. Try not to read posture into text. Whatever is on FFF will be out at a later date. Like I said, Thanks for the info, just could have left the "gift" out of it. As for the rest of your edited BS, just remember to be careful what you wish for. And seriously, why not answer Pioneers question????????????...no sarcasm, just a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) Pioneers question????????????...no sarcasm, just a question. Obviously if it is not in the language the answers have to come from those in negotiations. I'm suspect of everything if it is not in black and white also. Take the new product commitments for instance. OHAP is mentioned as a recipient of new product along with other facilities, and at the 1A meeting it was revealed that the Transit connect was slated for OHAP. Well if you look at the fact that this is an amendment to the national agreement then the language from the national agreement still stands, and it says that all new product commitments are based on market conditions. That means that the guarantees are no more solid then when they were originally offered in the 2007 agreement. In which case they have not to this point kept their commitments, and have the option to withdraw them based on market conditions. Same song and dance. I would not agree to anything that is not specifically spelled out in the contract, or any language that is set TBD until after the settlement of the agreement, or anything that can be later modified without membership approval. Pioneer should not even have to ask it should be spelled out, and even if he is given an answer to pacify him, then it is subject to change if it is not in witting! I don't understand why you are so defensive, I prefer we just get on with it so we can focus on the more important issue! Edited February 27, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Obviously if it is not in the language the answers have to come from those in negotiations. I'm suspect of everything if it is not in black and white also. Take the new product commitments for instance. OHAP is mentioned as a recipient of new product along with other facilities, and at the 1A meeting it was revealed that the Transit connect was slated for OHAP. Well if you look at the fact that this is an amendment to the national agreement then the language from the national agreement still stands, and it says that all new product commitments are based on market conditions. That means that the guarantees are no more solid then when they were originally offered in the 2007 agreement. In which case they have not to this point kept their commitments, and have the option to withdraw them based on market conditions. Same song and dance. I would not agree to anything that is not specifically spelled out in the contract, or any language that is set TBD until after the settlement of the agreement, or anything that can be later modified without membership approval. Pioneer should not even have to ask it should be spelled out, and even if he is given an answer to pacify him, then it is subject to change if it is not in witting! I don't understand why you are so defensive, I prefer we just get on with it so we can focus on the more important issue! Maybe it could be said the UAW National Ford is too trusting. I know I've been in a spot where I've had to agree with conditions TBD. What you must do in that situation is go back to the table sticking to your guns and standing up for the best interests of your membership. As soon as you try to put a party in a full nelson it's a deal breaker. Try to get some luv at the club by grabbin' a hottie in a nelson. NOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 That isnt what he asked........ After rereading it you're right thats not what he asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FactoryRat 5317 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Is anyone else having trouble opening the link? Are my always inconvenient computer bugs acting up again or has the link been disabled? I was able to open and read the link and also found it interesting, and I understand why we should vote no! As for everyone that I work with they say that they are without a doubt going to vote yes as they are afraid that if its turned down it will get turned over to chry or gm and they say it can only get worse? Just giving you a heads up on everyone in the plant. But back to the link and I believe it was said to be true copy? Im just wondering why there are so many words/names spelled wrong??? just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I was able to open and read the link and also found it interesting, and I understand why we should vote no! As for everyone that I work with they say that they are without a doubt going to vote yes as they are afraid that if its turned down it will get turned over to chry or gm and they say it can only get worse? Just giving you a heads up on everyone in the plant. But back to the link and I believe it was said to be true copy? Im just wondering why there are so many words/names spelled wrong??? just sounds like a conspiracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) I was able to open and read the link and also found it interesting, and I understand why we should vote no! As for everyone that I work with they say that they are without a doubt going to vote yes as they are afraid that if its turned down it will get turned over to chry or gm and they say it can only get worse? Just giving you a heads up on everyone in the plant. But back to the link and I believe it was said to be true copy? Im just wondering why there are so many words/names spelled wrong??? just The scanned pages were processed with OCR software so you could do a search for a text string and find phrases like "COLA", "Sub", "retiree", etc... The software tries to look at the image of a letter and figure out if it is an "a" or and "o". Sometimes it guesses wrong. Mis-spelling is usually not a problem for the most part. Here is a version good for printing and reading, but not searching. 2007 Ford Agreement Modifications (Not Searchable) Edited February 28, 2009 by FiredMotorCompany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I was able to open and read the link and also found it interesting, and I understand why we should vote no! As for everyone that I work with they say that they are without a doubt going to vote yes as they are afraid that if its turned down it will get turned over to chry or gm and they say it can only get worse? Just giving you a heads up on everyone in the plant. But back to the link and I believe it was said to be true copy? Im just wondering why there are so many words/names spelled wrong??? just We scanned it and because Windows Vista is stupid, we had to use it as JPEG images. We then used Adobe to convert it to .pdf at the request of a member so he could make it better. We had to upload the scanned images to photobucket. It was an arduous process and I apologize if things got a bit scrambled in the conversion process. We were trying to accommodate specific requests. Besides, we wanted to get the information out as quickly as possible to the membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 We scanned it and because Windows Vista is stupid, we had to use it as JPEG images. We then used Adobe to convert it to .pdf at the request of a member so he could make it better. We had to upload the scanned images to photobucket. It was an arduous process and I apologize if things got a bit scrambled in the conversion process. We were trying to accommodate specific requests. Besides, we wanted to get the information out as quickly as possible to the membership. You guys sound like engineers :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 You guys sound like engineers :happy feet: OUCH! :stats: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 You guys sound like engineers :happy feet: That was totally uncalled for. You need to apologize. I realize that you may be salty because some of us thought that the feelings of the membership as a whole were more important than the egos of the IUAW. These people had the right to this information and I, for one, will never apologize for keeping the membership informed. Would that the IUAW cared more about the rank and file, we wouldn't have as much dissension on this board. The IUAW wants Solidarity but on THEIR terms. Sorry, that's not how it works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 That was totally uncalled for. You need to apologize. I realize that you may be salty because some of us thought that the feelings of the membership as a whole were more important than the egos of the IUAW. These people had the right to this information and I, for one, will never apologize for keeping the membership informed. Would that the IUAW cared more about the rank and file, we wouldn't have as much dissension on this board. The IUAW wants Solidarity but on THEIR terms. Sorry, that's not how it works! As such a warrior of Solidarity as you portray yourself to be, you of all people should understand the importance of confidence in your leadership. The fact that you folks chose to smash the IUAW in your posts seriously takes away from your due dilligence to inform our membership. Your local leadership should be sharing this info with your members on a personal contact basis. If they aren't, they're wrong. I do. But to throw confident documents on this site for the "public" to read is irresponsible at best. I have to think that you and furious have an idea at what the media can do. If you were personally in litigation, you would want the privacy rights to preserve your case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 As such a warrior of Solidarity as you portray yourself to be, you of all people should understand the importance of confidence in your leadership. The fact that you folks chose to smash the IUAW in your posts seriously takes away from your due dilligence to inform our membership. Your local leadership should be sharing this info with your members on a personal contact basis. If they aren't, they're wrong. I do. But to throw confident documents on this site for the "public" to read is irresponsible at best. I have to think that you and furious have an idea at what the media can do. If you were personally in litigation, you would want the privacy rights to preserve your case. Hah! You're talking to someone who had her medical records leaked on the floor during an election! As a matter of fact, all of my personal records have been stolen twice at my plant so I don't talk to me about confidentiality and the union! The union goes after anyone who stands up to them and I refused to be cowed! Do you think that the media wouldn't have gotten a hold of it anyway? But your fears are the exact reason Furious started FFF! As for voicing our opinions about the IUAW, they are already well aware of what I think of them. What are they going to do? Blackball me? Already done. Like I care! I have no ambition to be amongst their ilk. I stand by what Furious and I did and I think the vast majority of the rank and file do as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 "In order to encourage healthy choices" reminds me of the Rodney Dangerfield movie 'Easy Money' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 "In order to encourage healthy choices" reminds me of the Rodney Dangerfield movie 'Easy Money' LMAO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udontkno Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Hah! You're talking to someone who had her medical records leaked on the floor during an election! As a matter of fact, all of my personal records have been stolen twice at my plant so I don't talk to me about confidentiality and the union! The union goes after anyone who stands up to them and I refused to be cowed! Do you think that the media wouldn't have gotten a hold of it anyway? But your fears are the exact reason Furious started FFF! As for voicing our opinions about the IUAW, they are already well aware of what I think of them. What are they going to do? Blackball me? Already done. Like I care! I have no ambition to be amongst their ilk. I stand by what Furious and I did and I think the vast majority of the rank and file do as well! Spring I stand by you and Furious. If this union dosnt want to show us the language until after the vote then I think they are trying to hide something. We pay them, they dont pay us. I wouldnt accept this from my personal lawyer why should I accept this from MY union! Things have got to change or we wont have anything to change in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Hah! You're talking to someone who had her medical records leaked on the floor during an election! As a matter of fact, all of my personal records have been stolen twice at my plant so I don't talk to me about confidentiality and the union! The union goes after anyone who stands up to them and I refused to be cowed! Do you think that the media wouldn't have gotten a hold of it anyway? But your fears are the exact reason Furious started FFF! As for voicing our opinions about the IUAW, they are already well aware of what I think of them. What are they going to do? Blackball me? Already done. Like I care! I have no ambition to be amongst their ilk. I stand by what Furious and I did and I think the vast majority of the rank and file do as well! Spring, I don't know what facility you may be from. I feel bad that your personal records were shared as you say, no sarcasm. I mean it. Standing up to those that oppose goes with the territory. The uaw/ford team did what they thought was right. You do what you think is right. I do too. Please just be sensitive to the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Spring I stand by you and Furious. If this union dosnt want to show us the language until after the vote then I think they are trying to hide something. We pay them, they dont pay us. I wouldnt accept this from my personal lawyer why should I accept this from MY union! Things have got to change or we wont have anything to change in the future. We share at Rawsonville. That is your local unions responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Spring, I don't know what facility you may be from. I feel bad that your personal records were shared as you say, no sarcasm. I mean it. Standing up to those that oppose goes with the territory. The uaw/ford team did what they thought was right. You do what you think is right. I do too. Please just be sensitive to the process. Pulse, I come from that plant with the bad politics! lol I'm not questioning that the UAW/Ford team probably did the best they could. And I'm well aware of the process. Unfortunately, I have a problem with the process when it excludes the membership to the degree it does. Currently, I feel the process is very exclusionary. So I'm trying to change that in my small way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 As such a warrior of Solidarity as you portray yourself to be, you of all people should understand the importance of confidence in your leadership. The fact that you folks chose to smash the IUAW in your posts seriously takes away from your due dilligence to inform our membership. Your local leadership should be sharing this info with your members on a personal contact basis. If they aren't, they're wrong. I do. But to throw confident documents on this site for the "public" to read is irresponsible at best. I have to think that you and furious have an idea at what the media can do. If you were personally in litigation, you would want the privacy rights to preserve your case. I totally agree with keeping matters private, and that is why FFF was created. However at this point BOF is more widely known and in order to provide the language to every member possible we had to provide it here also. I cannot stand the thought that any of our brothers/sister talk on a public board. Many are on layoff from multiple plants at this time and do not even have access to a committeeman, if you were at the 1A meeting you would know this. Some of the local reps had to ask to postpone their ratification votes on this basis! Now as far as what the locals will provide allot of times depends on the circumstances each plant faces at the time, and unfortunately the agenda of the local chair. Communicating openly VIA internet is the best thing that has ever happened to this bureaucracy, just not in the view of the public. How else is Joe the autoworker from Detroit suppose to know what Jane the autoworker from Kentucky is facing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I totally agree with keeping matters private, and that is why FFF was created. However at this point BOF is more widely known and in order to provide the language to every member possible we had to provide it here also. I cannot stand the thought that any of our brothers/sister talk on a public board. Many are on layoff from multiple plants at this time and do not even have access to a committeeman, if you were at the 1A meeting you would know this. Some of the local reps had to ask to postpone their ratification votes on this basis! Now as far as what the locals will provide allot of times depends on the circumstances each plant faces at the time, and unfortunately the agenda of the local chair. Communicating openly VIA internet is the best thing that has ever happened to this bureaucracy, just not in the view of the public. How else is Joe the autoworker from Detroit suppose to know what Jane the autoworker from Kentucky is facing! Dude---I just realized you are from ohio and if you think like you drive---I'm wasting my time---LMFAO :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I totally agree with keeping matters private, and that is why FFF was created. However at this point BOF is more widely known and in order to provide the language to every member possible we had to provide it here also. I cannot stand the thought that any of our brothers/sister talk on a public board. Many are on layoff from multiple plants at this time and do not even have access to a committeeman, if you were at the 1A meeting you would know this. Some of the local reps had to ask to postpone their ratification votes on this basis! Now as far as what the locals will provide allot of times depends on the circumstances each plant faces at the time, and unfortunately the agenda of the local chair. Communicating openly VIA internet is the best thing that has ever happened to this bureaucracy, just not in the view of the public. How else is Joe the autoworker from Detroit suppose to know what Jane the autoworker from Kentucky is facing! whats up furious....the white pages were shared with the local leadership and highlights also given. The thing is all the highlights had to be printed up and sent to the locals. We just got our today and I am sure everyone else just got theirs or will be recieving them this weekend. If anyones wants to read the white pages all they have to do is get with someone on the committee. It really suxs that personal agendas and politics play a role in getting info out. I am not saying that your local does this but sometimes it happens. This agreement is a turd...can't really say anything other than that. Just think how big that turd would have been coming from GM or Chrysler?? I actually think they did an excellent job and securing our wages, health care and pension and no plant closings..... I think that it is sad that people think that going back to the table would benefit anyone....hell just ask American Axle Employees....not to mention that Ford is burning through a billion dollars a month. Vote no and it will be at least 2 months before they would go back to the table so now they have lost 2 more billion and that is about 2 new programs. So 2 assembly plants, engine plants, stamping plants and a transmission plant would have been lost. Then GM will go to congress and say look the UAW failed to give us a competitive agreement and then the outside steps in to mandate what is competitive and what isn't. FYI....no one outside of the auto business like us or would give us anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 Dude---I just realized you are from ohio and if you think like you drive---I'm wasting my time---LMFAO :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: I am seasoned truck driver with seven years of service and zero chargeable accidents, just sit in the back of this rig and shut up. I have a better idea on how to navigate and whether the storm you give me credit for. I can make it without Ford, but Americans will not be able to make it without organized labor. At this point Labor is being castrated, grow some balls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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