MichiganTruck_Mafia Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I think if it doesn't pass, and it may not according to most of the responses here, that Ford will walk away from any negotiations, and let the UAW deal with GM/Chrysler. That deal will most likely be worse from those 2. Let's say the deal with Ford passes. Later, GM/Chrysler workers give up even more than Ford workers, because they are in worse financial shape than Ford. Do you really think Ford will sit back and let GM/Chrysler have bigger concessions from the UAW than them? Hell no, they will want even deeper concessions to match GM/Chrysler. So the end result will be the same anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Let's say the deal with Ford passes. Later, GM/Chrysler workers give up even more than Ford workers, because they are in worse financial shape than Ford. Do you really think Ford will sit back and let GM/Chrysler have bigger concessions from the UAW than them? Hell no, they will want even deeper concessions to match GM/Chrysler. So the end result will be the same anyway. Really sucks to be us right now, doesn't it? I hate this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeezNutz Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Trust our union. I had that kind of naive idealistic trust when I hired in 10yrs ago. Since then I've done nothing but give things back, several times in the middle of a contract. I've never felt like I was getting all the details when voting on a contract, and as we've recently seen there's always language and clauses that aren't presented to us. Wouldn't you have liked to vote on the suspension of JSP? I can tell you from personal experience that I've been outright lied to by the IUAW. While that may not be your experience you can't deny that you never get the full details of what you're voting on and that additionally when you try to find them it's so difficult as to be damn near impossible. That's why a majority of people are on this forum and others... to try to share that information. Trust the union?!? At this point IMO that's fool's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhibkb Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Vote "No", make them cut the Executives salaries and bonuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattack Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) If anyone knows where they can find 42,000 jobs that make approx.$56,000 a year plus benefits....please post them here.I'm sure there are many out there who'll respond OR just vote yes with the understanding that this DOES INDEED SUCK but IF a turnaround in the economy does take place each of you will be in a position to move on with your lives in the years to come. While voting no may pacify you now what about your families..... particualarly you who have small children. This vote isn't about you being pissed off it's about you maintaining your families until this recession ends. Families will take the brunt of that no vote and I think each of us know that. Taking a stand is one thing but in the enviorment of today's world be prudent enough to pick a better time to do it. So many have less than we in the auto industry do that taking that second look before voting would be wise. I just retired,however I took 4 pay-cuts and benefit changes in the eighty's while I was in the steel division and got through it...even though IT WAS HARD to do but eventually it worked itself out so I could move on and eventually retire....you will too! AND JUST FOR THE RECORD THIS SITUATION THAT EVERYONE HAS BEEN PUT INTO DOES SUCK.......THAT I DO KNOW. Edited February 28, 2009 by macattack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) I don't think they'll go back to the table. I think they'll go to GM or Chrysler. If they let them have a go at it and follow the pattern, Ford will be in the catbird seat because GM and Chrysler's cuts will be more drastic. Ford has nothing to lose in this one in comparison. The funny part of that is GM and Chrysler workers are not whiling to except the terms either. I talked with Jack Kiedel on the phone, he runs a site much like Ford Fanatic servicing GM workers. He is also a union activist and has been for 20 years, he also marched with other UAW members on Washington to remove the stipulations in the terms for the bridge loans. GM, and Chrysler workers are now reading our tentative agreement, and are banding against concessions also. What happens when no one to include GM, and Chrysler workers are whiling agree to the terms. I suppose they could steer us all through bankruptcy, but that still does not end production. They will negotiate better terms or all the foremen that they have laid off will have to be called back to build their damn products for them! I say their needs to be a strike nationwide by all three auto manufacturers simultaneously, it is not a sympathy stike because all three are effected by the terms of this agreement. The government may be playing hardball, but they cannot sustain the economic effect of a mass work stoppage! Edited February 27, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 The funny part of that is GM and Chrysler workers are not whiling to except the terms either. I talked with Jack Kiedel on the phone, he runs a site much like Ford Fanatic servicing GM workers. He is also a union activist and has been for 20 years, he also marched with other UAW members on Washington to remove the stipulations in the terms for the bridge loans. GM, and Chrysler workers are now reading our tentative agreement, and are banding against concessions also. What happens when no one to include GM, and Chrysler workers are whiling agree to the terms. I suppose they could steer us all through bankruptcy, but that still does not end production. They will negotiate better terms or all the foremen that they have laid off will have to be called back to build their damn products for them! I say their needs to be a strike nationwide by all three auto manufacturers simultaneously, it is not a sympathy stike because all three are effected by the terms of this agreement. The government may be playing hardball, but they cannot sustain the economic effect of a mass work stoppage! Dear, I'd love to see a nation wide strike but it won't happen and if it did, it wouldn't matter. People aren't buying cars because they don't have any money or can't get the credit due to the global economic crisis. The public sentiment is totally against us and they won't support us. We would need the support of the public in order to make this effective. Unless you had a nation wide strike of EVERY unionized person out there, regardless of what union or profession, it won't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelincolns Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I asked about that and was told by my union reps that won't happen until 2011. That's right, not until the next National Negotiations. It might not even happen then if the economy doesn't turn around. My point is the UAW can only successfully bargain from a position of strength and that is certainly not now. I don't know what the wording is but wording can be placed in the contract that would automatically reopen negotiations if an agreed upon set of circumstances occur. That would protect the UAW if a miracle happened and there was a large increase in sales mid contract. I went through the givebacks of the early 80's and it took probably a decade before we got back annual percentage raises instead of lump sums and we never did get back PPH (Paid Personal Holidays) days. We did get some rather large profit sharing checks which I hope is still part of the contact. Profit sharing is another way to help the worker reap some of the rewards if and when sales and profits return. We all lost a lot back then by freezing our wages and then getting only lump sum raises but we still had a job and things did get better. Tens of thousands lost their jobs back then without having the benefit of the buyouts that are being offered now. People don't want to hear it but just think what would be happening now if we were not represented by the UAW. It would be much worse. We are fortunate we work for Ford and stand the best chance of recovering. The UAW is trying to do its best in representing us while still keeping the companies viable which is in all of our best interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) Unless you had a nation wide strike of EVERY unionized person out there, regardless of what union or profession, it won't matter. That can never happen because of the sympathy strike provisions in almost every union contract for every local nationwide! My point was that not even GM, and Chrysler workers are whiling to agree to the terms, so what is the fear of them moving back to negotiating with them. I suspect that they initiated negotiations with Ford because GM and Chrysler workers are already riled up over the terms of the bridge loans! Edited February 27, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoardpm Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 My FPS corrdinator has a sign hanging above his repair station that reads "The beatings will continue untill moral improves!!!" I'd take a picture of it and post it on here but, sure as shit some company rat would get me fired for bringing a camera into the plant. Just thought the quote would amuse some of you :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark270 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 My FPS corrdinator has a sign hanging above his repair station that reads "The beatings will continue untill moral improves!!!" I'd take a picture of it and post it on here but, sure as shit some company rat would get me fired for bringing a camera into the plant. Just thought the quote would amuse some of you :P yeah the phrase has japanese origins(WW2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unionguy963 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 There will be no "revote". The company will get their cost savings 1 way or another. Bankruptcy Plant Closings Layoffs Investments to other countries. This is our 1 shot to vote yes and forge our future. Vote yes.....The Job you save may be your own. Trust our union. They are our insurance policy...... You want to know what.... The stakes were high when we first organized... $5 a day was the best paying job around.... It was time to take a stand then, and it's tme to make a stand now.... I'll be voting NO... SOLIDARITY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DearbornDerek Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Take a good look into the faces of your children before voting no......they will take the brunt of that no vote Yes they will...And I would rather tell them that daddy lost his job for something he believes in then tell them sorry, we can't afford the house anymore because I'm only getting half of my sub pay now. I've been in the real world, and if I have to I will work two jobs (again). Nothing at work, with the company or the union is about ME. Everthing I do is (and always will be) for my family. So yes, I will be thinking of them when I vote NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nextup Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 There will be no "revote". The company will get their cost savings 1 way or another. Bankruptcy Plant Closings Layoffs Investments to other countries. This is our 1 shot to vote yes and forge our future. Vote yes.....The Job you save may be your own. Trust our union. They are our insurance policy...... The family won't let this get too Bankruptcy, That would end up being the end of the family Stock and control, AND THEIR MONEY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framed Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 After reading all of the postings in this thread, most people are basing whether to vote yes or no on speculation of what the company or the union will do if the vote passes or not. How about you vote yes or no based on the information we were given - do you like what we have to give up or not - then vote yes or no and let the chip fall where they may - fuck all the stupid speculation - have the balls to vote whether you personally like what is proposed or not and let them sort it out later! Don't vote based on what you think might happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udontkno Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 After reading all of the postings in this thread, most people are basing whether to vote yes or no on speculation of what the company or the union will do if the vote passes or not. How about you vote yes or no based on the information we were given - do you like what we have to give up or not - then vote yes or no and let the chip fall where they may - fuck all the stupid speculation - have the balls to vote whether you personally like what is proposed or not and let them sort it out later! Don't vote based on what you think might happen! I agree all of those posting about "look in your childrens eyes" "bankruptcy" and all of this BS makes me want to vote against the agreement not for it. I am not one that takes to threats or lies, I hate this agreement but I voted for it. I have over 20 years and a college degree as well as tech. training, I know I can find another job so I voted for the agreement not because I am scared, I voted for it because I see all of my co-workers who are doing the best they will ever do and I dont want to stand on principal and take a chance on them suffering in the long run. Once Ford turns a profit, I will demand that we get all of our givebacks back and a rainy day fund set up so we never get in this position again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 i love the demagoguery exhibited here. lets arrange the deck chairs by voting no. Contrary to the movies there's nothing romantic, noble, heroic about what is happening and you guys treat it as such. stop calling names, calm down, put the fear away and rethink your position a bit. Nothing lasts forever, despite what we think. We had a good run, should've saved more, and now its come to an end. Voting no won't change anything. I'm not saying not to, but if you think your setting the world on fire and getting the attention of anyone your not. Solid House alreasy knows this will be unpopular. this is the sinking ship, so the band can play on and we can all arrange the deck chairs. This contract will hurt me and my family, but so will ford going banckrupt. Stop bitching, calling names and treat a hard decision and tough times with some fucking dignity. Amen---this is scary enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I agree all of those posting about "look in your childrens eyes" "bankruptcy" and all of this BS makes me want to vote against the agreement not for it. I am not one that takes to threats or lies, I hate this agreement but I voted for it. I have over 20 years and a college degree as well as tech. training, I know I can find another job so I voted for the agreement not because I am scared, I voted for it because I see all of my co-workers who are doing the best they will ever do and I dont want to stand on principal and take a chance on them suffering in the long run. Once Ford turns a profit, I will demand that we get all of our givebacks back and a rainy day fund set up so we never get in this position again. GREAT POST---me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeme back 2blue Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 After reading all of the postings in this thread, most people are basing whether to vote yes or no on speculation of what the company or the union will do if the vote passes or not. How about you vote yes or no based on the information we were given - do you like what we have to give up or not - then vote yes or no and let the chip fall where they may - fuck all the stupid speculation - have the balls to vote whether you personally like what is proposed or not and let them sort it out later! Don't vote based on what you think might happen! So I guess you would be the kind of guy that would bet your whole wad on red or black at the roulette table. Give us a break would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
level Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 So I guess you would be the kind of guy that would bet your whole wad on red or black at the roulette table. Give us a break would you? Maybe you used a bad example if you disagree....since Red or Black at roulette has a 47.37% chance of winning....the best odds if your gonna play............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeme back 2blue Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Maybe you used a bad example if you disagree....since Red or Black at roulette has a 47.37% chance of winning....the best odds if your gonna play............ I GUESS I SHOULD HAVE SAID #13,WHATEVER IT IS RED OR BLACK! :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udontkno Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Maybe you used a bad example if you disagree....since Red or Black at roulette has a 47.37% chance of winning....the best odds if your gonna play............ Actually if you split your bet and play 1st-12 and 2nd-12 you will cover just under 66% of the table. If your on a American table you have green 0 and 00 so it will be less than 66% on a European table you'll cover 66.6% because they rarely have green 0 and 00. So these are your best odds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextTime Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 You are a moron, If they are going to put us in debt where we cannot susdain our current quality of life then we should take them with us. Bankruptcy is not an option. If Ford thinks people will buy from a bankrupt company they are sadly mistaken. JOE HENDRICHS is a young punk who has never worked hard in life and needs to get in touch with the working class american. The same goes for Bob King and Ron Gettlefinger. They have lost all touch with the majority of UAW members. There heads should roll like the republican heads rolled during this past election cycle. The people were fed up with them and the Members of the UAW are fed up with Bob King and Ron Gettlefinger. We will not only march on the Glass House but we will march to those two idiots homes also. Lets see you make $28+ and hour and have'nt lost any hourly rate, your health care is intact and your retirement is still there. and you want to march on someones house?? I take it you dont like the agreement that was handed down. I can understand that you may not like it, I dont think anyone does (including all the folks you mentioned) What is your solution to this problem??? Let me guess you think Obama is gonna fix it overnight and all will be well?? Guess what?? It aint gonna happen. If you have'nt paid attention 68+ percent of the American public doesn't agree on helping out the Auto industry and the right wingers are chomping at the bit for you to tell your union leadership to go to hell. Dumb move ex-lax. Now is the time for you to show some soliderity not get on your bully pulpit and spew what we coulda, woulda, shoulda have done. but it is nice to know that when the company get profitable and the Union once again is in a strong position you will be willing to turn down those 12hrs 7 days and strike to get what we have to give up now!! oh wait my guess is you will be to comfortable to want to fight for the cause then.. Your logic is backwards and self serving. but hey dont worry the rest of us in this proud union will carry your weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Lets see you make $28+ and hour and have'nt lost any hourly rate, your health care is intact and your retirement is still there. and you want to march on someones house?? I take it you dont like the agreement that was handed down. I can understand that you may not like it, I dont think anyone does (including all the folks you mentioned) What is your solution to this problem??? Let me guess you think Obama is gonna fix it overnight and all will be well?? Guess what?? It aint gonna happen. If you have'nt paid attention 68+ percent of the American public doesn't agree on helping out the Auto industry and the right wingers are chomping at the bit for you to tell your union leadership to go to hell. Dumb move ex-lax. Now is the time for you to show some soliderity not get on your bully pulpit and spew what we coulda, woulda, shoulda have done. but it is nice to know that when the company get profitable and the Union once again is in a strong position you will be willing to turn down those 12hrs 7 days and strike to get what we have to give up now!! oh wait my guess is you will be to comfortable to want to fight for the cause then.. Your logic is backwards and self serving. but hey dont worry the rest of us in this proud union will carry your weight Excquisitely said. Bravo!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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