Jaah Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 "Auto industry expert and Trent University professor Dimitry Anastakis said that the automaker needs billions in aid to stay afloat, and the union concessions will only save the company millions. "The cost of labour, even though it is a huge issue in terms of the public perception, is not a huge amount of the cost of the actual vehicle. It's maybe 10, 12, 15 per cent of the cost of a vehicle," Anastakis told Canada AM on Monday. "So even if they cut their wages, cut their costs by three or four or five per cent, that's not going to make or break the difference." Last week, GM admitted that auditors expressed "substantial doubt" about the company's ability to keep operating and it fell to third place in the Canadian market in February sales. The company can only hope that car sales pick up over the next few months, Anastakis said. What's most significant, he said, is that the deal marks a "paradigm shift" in the CAW's negotiating tactics. The union has backed away from its long-time resistance to making concessions. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleu Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 "Auto industry expert and Trent University professor Dimitry Anastakis said that the automaker needs billions in aid to stay afloat, and the union concessions will only save the company millions. "The cost of labour, even though it is a huge issue in terms of the public perception, is not a huge amount of the cost of the actual vehicle. It's maybe 10, 12, 15 per cent of the cost of a vehicle," Anastakis told Canada AM on Monday. "So even if they cut their wages, cut their costs by three or four or five per cent, that's not going to make or break the difference." Last week, GM admitted that auditors expressed "substantial doubt" about the company's ability to keep operating and it fell to third place in the Canadian market in February sales. The company can only hope that car sales pick up over the next few months, Anastakis said. What's most significant, he said, is that the deal marks a "paradigm shift" in the CAW's negotiating tactics. The union has backed away from its long-time resistance to making concessions. " Where did this professor get his facts for the last sentance? We've be making concessions for the last 3 contracts. So we vote on concessions to look good to the media, and they still say the UAW is to blame. The 10% cost of labor to build a car also includes managments and officers (CEO, president) wages. It just goes to show you, figures don't lie, but liars figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 $800 million in savings is just the beginning. Ford needed these to get the bond holders to give up $10.4 billion in savings .. So all u idiots who think its not a big thing are stupid.. Try adding $10.4 billion to $ 800 mills a year plus the salary cuts $800 million a year goes along way when ford is updating our plants. $300 mills updates a good plant like MTP and they will use this $$ to update the remaining plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattack Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) Despite negative voices like shelby Ford is going to make it.......make no mistake about that. With the product coming out and the contract adjustments along with stockholders who can't afford for it to fail we'll still be there when the economy once again prospers. Edited March 9, 2009 by macattack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordguy61mi Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 These concessions are not about saving the company, they are about showing the government that we're willing to take a hit too in order to get government bail out money. Plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hvcpicker Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 The writing is on the walls.....gm will go bankrupt chrysler will follow and ford will want the same advantages. I believe that they need help and we have done that. The problem is that for 40 years the media , the carmakers themselves and the unions inability to articulate the honest positions that we hold is a brew that will kill us. the media loves to bash the american automakers because it makes them look well read and in step with the yuppies who refuse to buy american! That would be admitting your not intellectual right. We make great products that most often have LESS problems than imports right? We dont control the cost structures that our bosses use to run the company right? We dont use the media correctly to distinguish these facts! The car companies know this is their last chance to get at our contracts under the cover of the economy. They will fight to break the contracts down. They have successfully backed us into a corner with the help of the government ( all of them) using financial problems to force contractual concessions. We cant even fight , if we do they will cut jobs with the economy and cost as a cover. They will go overseas, and across borders. We all know it! You cant just give up but dont deny the facts that they have backed us into a corner. USE THE MEDIA TO OUR BENEFIT! Go after them with the people, tell the truth and MAYBE the american public will see that to undercut us is to eventually lead to them! We are well paid , we have negotiated great contracts. Two things we NEGOTIATED two contracts not IMPOSED two contracts. Secondly show the average american what we do , how hard these jobs can be and let them try to do it with the prospect of doing it for 30yrs! We EARN what we have and they would see that if we used the media wisely! If we dont we will get screwed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSchmi Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Hvcpicker, Problem is, the media are totally corporate controlled. To get our side out, we have to create our own media. It used to be called Union Press or Voice of Labor. Now totally silent. MS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 These concessions are not about saving the company, they are about showing the government that we're willing to take a hit too in order to get government bail out money. Plain and simple. After the government bails us out, how involved will they be in our operations? The taxpayers will be scrutinizing us as if we worked for the government. If the government is going to be involved in running the auto industry, we may as well shoot ourselves now and get it over with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deflep1 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Amen, Hvcpicker! Too many people on this site think GM filing for bankruptcy won't affect Ford at all. They're dead wrong! We are going to have lower wages when this is all said and done. GM will lower their wages to what the bankruptcy court judge says.(because the UAW contracts get thrown out!) Chrysler will lower their wages because they also took bridgeloan money. Ford will claim the other two have a unfair competitive advantage over them and they will reopen the contract again. If we take bridge loan money later this year, then we will be under the same terms, we don't have to go through bankruotcy for the govenment to impose new lower base wages. The companies and suppliers will still be around with govenment help, but they will demand lower wages to make us more viable in their eyes. I've been saying this would happen for a LONGGGG time. It sucks, but it is the reality we are facing. I don't think our wages will be cut in half like some people here think, but we could easily lose 5-10 bucks an hour. When things pick up next year or 2 years from now, we may be able to renegotiate and get pay raises again. The next two years are going to be bad. We will survive, but it will be much different for us. Good luck to all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem12 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 These concessions are not about saving the company, they are about showing the government that we're willing to take a hit too in order to get government bail out money. Plain and simple. Bob king said it was a public realations move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaah Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 $800 million in savings is just the beginning. Ford needed these to get the bond holders to give up $10.4 billion in savings .. So all u idiots who think its not a big thing are stupid.. Try adding $10.4 billion to $ 800 mills a year plus the salary cuts $800 million a year goes along way when ford is updating our plants. $300 mills updates a good plant like MTP and they will use this $$ to update the remaining plants. $800 million is huge to me. By the way where did that figure come from? The article was talking about GM who will need around 100 billion to survive, if you believe the talking heads. Now 10.4 billion would make a difference, by the way where did that figure come from? However the savings from cutting workers pay and benefits will hardly be noticed by the accountants but if that leads to the 10.4 billion from bond holders and the 80 or 90 billion in loans they will need then I guess its worth it. Every dollar counts and every person can help. hmmm, maybe we should do a gate collection for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinter Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 The end result will be thousands more laid off and more plant closures. The 'concessions' that were given up were put into place to help union members through rough times as we presently are in. We gave up past salary increases for this safety blanket. Now we have lost twice. Speaking of salary. If you understand how governments cranking out money through printing presses or by computer, you might understand that we soon will be entering an inflationary era. Our government is really working the presses in overtime. Without a COLA we have also lost this inflation hedge. Strike three. Ford will survive in the long term. But they will adjust production to match demand. As of now, demand sucks. What we gave up will have no effect on these future closures or layoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhopfenzitz Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 The end result will be thousands more laid off and more plant closures. The 'concessions' that were given up were put into place to help union members through rough times as we presently are in. We gave up past salary increases for this safety blanket. Now we have lost twice. Speaking of salary. If you understand how governments cranking out money through printing presses or by computer, you might understand that we soon will be entering an inflationary era. Our government is really working the presses in overtime. Without a COLA we have also lost this inflation hedge. Strike three. Ford will survive in the long term. But they will adjust production to match demand. As of now, demand sucks. What we gave up will have no effect on these future closures or layoffs. totally agree.... wonder how long before 28.00 per hour, is minimum wage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Hvcpicker, Problem is, the media are totally corporate controlled. To get our side out, we have to create our own media. It used to be called Union Press or Voice of Labor. Now totally silent. MS Now it is the use of social forums, and average members getting involved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 $800 million is huge to me. By the way where did that figure come from? The article was talking about GM who will need around 100 billion to survive, if you believe the talking heads. Now 10.4 billion would make a difference, by the way where did that figure come from? However the savings from cutting workers pay and benefits will hardly be noticed by the accountants but if that leads to the 10.4 billion from bond holders and the 80 or 90 billion in loans they will need then I guess its worth it. Every dollar counts and every person can help. hmmm, maybe we should do a gate collection for them. WTF you talking about? No one said GM alone needs $100 bills. This is where the $100 bills plus comes from GM/Chrysler wants around $40 bills The retool money for all companies is $25 billion There gonna add another $25 bills to the retooling of US plants loan $$ Pelosi has stated they need this $ Suppliers need up to $25 bills in loans There counting the tax credits to buy a new vehicle this year also at $11 bills and there counting fords $9 billion in credit request also. by the way GM is getting rid of $28 billion in bond holder debt. plus the $10-15 billion in VEBA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaah Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 WTF you talking about? No one said GM alone needs $100 bills. This is where the $100 bills plus comes from GM/Chrysler wants around $40 bills The retool money for all companies is $25 billion There gonna add another $25 bills to the retooling of US plants loan $$ Pelosi has stated they need this $ Suppliers need up to $25 bills in loans There counting the tax credits to buy a new vehicle this year also at $11 bills and there counting fords $9 billion in credit request also. by the way GM is getting rid of $28 billion in bond holder debt. plus the $10-15 billion in VEBA You are right, my mistake, the 100 billion was a rough estimate of the industry not just GM. Still, 800 million is pocket change compared to the other figures being tossed around. I still think we should take up a gate collectiona gate collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem12 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The end result will be thousands more laid off and more plant closures. The 'concessions' that were given up were put into place to help union members through rough times as we presently are in. We gave up past salary increases for this safety blanket. Now we have lost twice. Speaking of salary. If you understand how governments cranking out money through printing presses or by computer, you might understand that we soon will be entering an inflationary era. Our government is really working the presses in overtime. Without a COLA we have also lost this inflation hedge. Strike three. Ford will survive in the long term. But they will adjust production to match demand. As of now, demand sucks. What we gave up will have no effect on these future closures or layoffs. totally agree, but you will notice this wasn't mentioned by the UAW powers that be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 These concessions are not about saving the company, they are about showing the government that we're willing to take a hit too in order to get government bail out money. Plain and simple. exactly. it's posturing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 After the government bails us out, how involved will they be in our operations? The taxpayers will be scrutinizing us as if we worked for the government. If the government is going to be involved in running the auto industry, we may as well shoot ourselves now and get it over with. they would be less involved with Ford as we are making all the needed changes now. if Ford should actually need the gov't money, it would be reflective of a truly poor economy, not the current improvements made by management, workers, suppliers and creditors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtJester Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 they would be less involved with Ford as we are making all the needed changes now. if Ford should actually need the gov't money, it would be reflective of a truly poor economy, not the current improvements made by management, workers, suppliers and creditors. Here's what I think- what happens when the economy gets better? The DOW soared today, best it's been in 2009. Obama's stimulus plan will work and Ford will be building vehicles again. I don't think we will see 50 to 60 hour weeks for a long time, but we will see us working and not on lay off. Ford won't need a government bail out, they have a solid structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem12 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Here's what I think- what happens when the economy gets better? The DOW soared today, best it's been in 2009. Obama's stimulus plan will work and Ford will be building vehicles again. I don't think we will see 50 to 60 hour weeks for a long time, but we will see us working and not on lay off. Ford won't need a government bail out, they have a solid structure. I do hope your are right about Obama. But I see it as this if the economy gets better it will have done so without the help of Obama and this spendoholic congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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