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blazerdude20

'10 fusion sel vs accord ex

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Then we need to start outsourcing CEO's and other white collar workers.

 

Mexican CEO's and white collar workers aren't as good as ours are. The assembly workers are. The risk/reward benefit is far better for line workers than it is for engineers and managers. That's just the way of the world.

 

Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed with your "us vs them" mentality when it comes to your thoughts on your white collar co-workers. I really hope you are in the minority in those thoughts or the problems at Ford run far deeper still than I imagined.

Edited by NickF1011

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Mexican CEO's and white collar workers aren't as good as ours are. The assembly workers are.
Oh really? then that's why VW employs over 9,400 assembly workers in their plant in Mexico to make 2 vehicles huh? And yet it takes Ford about 3,000 to do the same job.

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Oh really? then that's why VW employs over 9,400 assembly workers in their plant in Mexico to make 2 vehicles huh? And yet it takes Ford about 3,000 to do the same job.

 

That's a difference between VW's methods and Ford's methods, not a difference between Mexican labor and American labor.

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That's a difference between VW's methods and Ford's methods, not a difference between Mexican labor and American labor.

 

OMG, I can't believe you said that. Methods? You mean they use those same methods worldwide or just in Mexico? Were those the Toyoda quality methods or Demming methods?

 

Come on Nick, covering up for someone checking what the other person just did is no method. When your paying someone the equivalent of less than $2/hr you can employ 10 people to check that one person just did the job correctly.

 

Your a better thinker than this... Go have some more coffee it's still early.

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OMG, I can't believe you said that. Methods? You mean they use those same methods worldwide or just in Mexico? Were those the Toyoda quality methods or Demming methods?

 

Come on Nick, covering up for someone checking what the other person just did is no method. When your paying someone the equivalent of less than $2/hr you can employ 10 people to check that one person just did the job correctly.

 

Your a better thinker than this... Go have some more coffee it's still early.

 

You don't make any sense. And your attempts to belittle me are even worse. You are comparing a Mexican VW factory to a Mexican Ford factory, no? If you are talking about an American Ford plant, you surely didn't hint at that or make it any bit clear in your initial response. If you are talking about the Mexican Ford plant, what the heck point are you trying to make? That Ford is more efficient than VW? Okay. Obviously. So why? There must be some methodical differences, no? Besides that, what the heck does that have to do with the post of mine you responded to? All I said is that assembly workers in Mexico don't appear to be any worse than those in the U.S. I don't see any evidence that suggests otherwise.

 

Seriously, stop digging for arguments. I think you've had a bit too much coffee this morning.

Edited by NickF1011

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One thing is, Ford is really shrinking their vehicles pretty fast, First it was an eleven foot superduty now a 10 foot fusion.

:hysterical: i got to start looking at what im typing before i post. mods, can you change it to '10 please

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:hysterical: i got to start looking at what im typing before i post. mods, can you change it to '10 please

 

Meeeh. Maaaaaybe. :D

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Meeeh. Maaaaaybe. :D

 

thanks nick! :reading:

 

another fusion review. this time a regular 3.0l v6 with 18" wheels:

 

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/fusion/2010/testdrive.html

 

The going has gotten exceedingly tough for the moribund American auto industry, but Ford is getting going. In the face of a historic crisis, the venerable company has taken a remarkably sensible approach — focus on volume-selling products, and improve them as much as possible without undertaking costly clean-sheet redesigns. Our 2010 Ford Fusion SEL V6 test car is proof positive that this approach is working. It's not the "all-new" vehicle that shoppers in this segment have come to expect every five years or so, but it is an impressively thorough update of what was already a competent midsize sedan.
Edited by blazerdude20

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makes you wonder if the 3.0 will beat the accord. their big complaint seemed to be because you couldn't hold the gears. the select shift would improve this issue

The 6F transmission has been known for languid shift response, which apparently was MT's main beef in this particular comparison test. So I doubt the 3.0L/6F Fusion would outscore the Accord EX V6.

 

The Aisin TF tranny paired with the 3.5L engine in the Fusion SPORT should be notably better in this regard. I think it would handily outscore the Accord EX V6 should MT decide to compare those two vehicles.

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Woo hoo! 100 Vice Presidents, 5 designers, and a room full of Engineers! :woot:

 

Without the designers and engineers, there would be no American cars to sell. They play a vital part in car production, and are American workers who benefit from the sale of a car just like an assembly line worker.

 

Just because the final assembly point is in Mexico does not mean nobody in the US benefits. I believe the engine and transmission for the Fusion are assembled in the good ole' USA. And I bet the majority of parts that go into the car are also made in the USA. If you were to count all the people in the USA who directly or indirectly receive money from a car purchase, you would see that buying a US made car does help out the US workers and our economy.

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Won't see me arguing about the quality. It's simply a matter of cost as far as I'm concerned. Mexican labor is cheaper.
Mexican CEO's and white collar workers aren't as good as ours are. The assembly workers are.
Oh really? then that's why VW employs over 9,400 assembly workers in their plant in Mexico to make 2 vehicles huh? And yet it takes Ford about 3,000 to do the same job.
You don't make any sense. And your attempts to belittle me are even worse. You are comparing a Mexican VW factory to a Mexican Ford factory, no? If you are talking about an American Ford plant, you surely didn't hint at that or make it any bit clear in your initial response. If you are talking about the Mexican Ford plant, what the heck point are you trying to make? That Ford is more efficient than VW? Okay. Obviously. So why? There must be some methodical differences, no? Besides that, what the heck does that have to do with the post of mine you responded to? All I said is that assembly workers in Mexico don't appear to be any worse than those in the U.S. I don't see any evidence that suggests otherwise.

 

Who's following the train of thought. You just said Mexican workers are as good as USA workers, I pointed out that VW employs over twice as many to do the same job in one plant as Ford USA workers do in one plant, same number of vehicles also. I didn't say Mexican Ford plant. I followed onto you saying their workers are as good as ours and showed a competing manufacturer as an example. IF I found employment figures for a Mexican Ford plant I would show them also. But I can go and dig out the VW numbers from a thread yesterday in the Competition forum about the VW plant.

 

But I guess I see your point, I should have stuck with purely Ford Mexican to USA. I trust Pioneer to help supply that info.

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Who's following the train of thought. You just said Mexican workers are as good as USA workers, I pointed out that VW employs over twice as many to do the same job in one plant as Ford USA workers do in one plant, same number of vehicles also. I didn't say Mexican Ford plant. I followed onto you saying their workers are as good as ours and showed a competing manufacturer as an example. IF I found employment figures for a Mexican Ford plant I would show them also. But I can go and dig out the VW numbers from a thread yesterday in the Competition forum about the VW plant.

 

But I guess I see your point, I should have stuck with purely Ford Mexican to USA. I trust Pioneer to help supply that info.

 

You didn't say Ford USA plant.

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Then we need to start outsourcing CEO's and other white collar workers.

 

 

They are... many engineering jobs are heading to india.....

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If you were to count all the people in the USA who directly or indirectly receive money from a car purchase, you would see that buying a US made car does help out the US workers and our economy.

Don't be harsh on Pioneer on this, he won't argue that point. He's pretty pro American all around. And Your correct. Now convince the ones that purchase the foreign owed cars of this. Just a one time purchase hurts more than once. I don't know what it will take for it to sink in. I wonder if seeing the teacher layoff's has any correlations to where your purchases benefit people yet? Better yet, let's just completely do away with all Domestic manufacturing totally and see what then happens.

 

The world is not like it was 20 years ago. It will not be like it was last year. Every other country supports their home team. "I" will support mine to the bitter end.

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You didn't say Ford USA plant.

Right I know... And I'm only on my second pot of coffee by this time in the morning, I really get cranked up, after the 4Th. or 5Th.

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All I said is that assembly workers in Mexico don't appear to be any worse than those in the U.S. I don't see any evidence that suggests otherwise.

I agree, particularly in Ford's case. Ford's Hermosillo Assembly held pole position in last year's Harbour Report productivity rankings for the "compact premium conventional car" vehicle segment. Yeah, Harbour's segment categories are interesting, but this does corroborate your assertion.

 

A bunch of Canadian assembly plants for several OEMs also rated highly in that study, so assembly workers in Canada don't appear do be any worse than those in the U.S., either.

Edited by aneekr

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I agree, particularly in Ford's case. Ford's Hermosillo Assembly held pole position in last year's Harbour Report productivity rankings for the "compact premium conventional car" vehicle segment. Yeah, Harbour's segment categories are interesting, but this does corroborate your assertion.

 

A bunch of Canadian assembly plants for several OEMs also rated highly in that study, so assembly workers in Canada don't appear do be any worse than those in the U.S., either.

 

Can you show me a link to this? All I see if Ford leading that segment, but no break out of the plants.

http://www.oliverwyman.com/content_images/...bourMedia08.pdf

 

Under Segment leaders pg. 33

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http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans...ison/index.html

 

 

 

long story short, accord wins because of the fusions tranny lag issues

 

As for the tranny issues, if you are going to buy a Fusion for the sport aspect, you are either going to get a 4-cylinder with a manual tranny or a V6. Why do you think they only mate the SelectShift with a V6. 99.9% of the buyers are not going to push the 4-cylinder automatic to the edge like they did.

 

Motor Trend also picked the Honda mainly due to ALG residual values and Intellichoice service data, and then just barely by their calculations. This is likely based on 2009 models, which should be thrown out as the Fusion has had some major redesign for 2010. Up to that point they were saying the Fusion was by far the best value for the money (though they say it grudgingly), and performance stats were very, very close even with less horsepower in the Fusion than the Accord.

 

To me it sounds like they were looking for any excuse to pick the Honda. Of course I may be biased. :D

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According to Edmunds and their TCO calculator a 2009 Fusion SEL Auto 4cyl (the 2010 wasn't available) will cost you .59 per mile vs. .57 per mile it costs to drive the 2009 EX Auto 4cyl. If you adjust for improved fuel economy in the 2010 Fusion you are looking at about .58 per mile. For those that are unaware the TCO calculator takes into account depreciation, maint, fuel, taxes, tax credits, financing and repairs.

 

So as far as I'm concerned the cost of ownership is a wash btwn the 2 models. Also if I'm not mistaken the Accord only has an aux jack, bluetooth is bundled with NAV and if you want Sat. Radio from the factory be prepared to pony up for leather as well. The above mentioned items are readily available on a Fusion SE without options that a lot of customers could do without (namely leather and moonroof).

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bluetooth is bundled with NAV and if you want Sat. Radio from the factory be prepared to pony up for leather as well.

 

Those two bundles right there would be a deal-breaker for me. I do not see the sense of having a $2000 navigation system to make some phone calls.

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One thing is, Ford is really shrinking their vehicles pretty fast, First it was an eleven foot superduty now a 10 foot fusion.

 

I have it on good authority that they will continue to grow in size on an annual basis through the rest of this century after which they will disappear completely.

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Can you show me a link to this? All I see if Ford leading that segment, but no break out of the plants.

http://www.oliverwyman.com/content_images/...bourMedia08.pdf

 

Under Segment leaders pg. 33

I accessed this press release and perused the 'Vehicle Assembly' section starting on p. 3. Just as you noted, it only states that Ford's Hermosillo Assembly leads the 'Compact Premium Conventional Car' segment. Your link provides more detailed information.

 

To see the detailed analysis of productivity at vehicle assembly, powertrain, and stamping plants, one has to shell out $595 for the full report. :o

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thanks nick! :reading:

 

another fusion review. this time a regular 3.0l v6 with 18" wheels:

 

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/fusion/2010/testdrive.html

That's a pretty decent review, although the focus on the 3.0L engine a little too much. 7.3 sec 0-60 is too slow for a midsize sedan? If you want more power, there's the Sport model, otherwise this is MORE than enough power for 99% of buyers.

 

I do wish the 3.0L was offered with a manual. Reminds me of the (old) Mazda6s. A little soft down low that made every day driving very easy, but keep your foot planted and that Duratec would wind out - it sounded great and it could really hustle!

 

Scott

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