jpvbs Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/01/report-...e-in-18-months/ So that would be about the beginning of 2011. Does this sound reasonable? Hasn't Ford been working on retooling facilities for quite awhile to bring in their new models. Or would this 18 months mean they would start importing vehicles then, with domestic production beginning later? I would think imported Fiats would be a price disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwford Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/01/report-...e-in-18-months/ So that would be about the beginning of 2011. Does this sound reasonable? Hasn't Ford been working on retooling facilities for quite awhile to bring in their new models. Or would this 18 months mean they would start importing vehicles then, with domestic production beginning later? I would think imported Fiats would be a price disadvantage. Who cares? Let them come. Fiat has no positive brand recognition in the US. Any cars they get here in 18 months will be with minimal modification and not be optimized for the US market - like the Saturn Astra. These "new" Chryslers will share the showroom with the crappy leftovers. It will be years until there is a cohesive product line in Chrysler and Dodge showrooms. By that time, Ford will have the new Fiesta and Focus plus all the variants, the new Explorer, Escape/Kuga, the new Taurus etc. etc. And on top of that, the next gen Fords will be right along in 2012-2014. I see no worries from Ford about whatever Chrysler does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Fiat's "500" looks like MAJOR butt! They had better have more tricks in their bag than that thing, if they think they're going to sell many vehicles here in the U.S., Chrysler-branded or not! Hyundai's and Kia's look downright exotic compared to that thing! -Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 The younger group might like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Fix It Again Tony Didn't Fiat leave the US market in the early 80's because of failing sales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 I'm not saying I'd be interested in one, but considering Ford's upcoming business model is heavy with Euro inspired small cars, it would seem that this Fiat thing could throw a wrench (a small one maybe) in Ford's plans. While I may not be the demographic Ford is aiming at with the Fiesta, I am guessing that if I were, the 500 would be at least as appealing as the Fiesta - and the Italian flair may be just enough to sway me. From what I have read, it seems Fiat has at least average reliability. So back to the original post, is 18 months realistic to expect there to be Fiats for sale here? It would be nice for the Fiesta and new Focus to have a head start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I'm not saying I'd be interested in one, but considering Ford's upcoming business model is heavy with Euro inspired small cars, it would seem that this Fiat thing could throw a wrench (a small one maybe) in Ford's plans. While I may not be the demographic Ford is aiming at with the Fiesta, I am guessing that if I were, the 500 would be at least as appealing as the Fiesta - and the Italian flair may be just enough to sway me. From what I have read, it seems Fiat has at least average reliability. So back to the original post, is 18 months realistic to expect there to be Fiats for sale here? It would be nice for the Fiesta and new Focus to have a head start. Sorta misinterpreting what Ford is doing here... The only all new product from Europe is the Fiesta and it should be here before next summer The Focus is being merged again and we are getting updated models based on some of the models already in production in Europe The Fusion and Mondeo are going to share the same platform and should be the same car for all intents with minor styling changes. No need to have two different platforms doing the same thing. The Fiat 500 is a fucking tiny car...the Ford KA is its platform mate and its smaller then a Mini or Fiesta. I don't see many Fiat 500s being sold over here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 The Fiat 500 is a fucking tiny car...the Ford KA is its platform mate and its smaller then a Mini or Fiesta. I don't see many Fiat 500s being sold over here... I don't really either......the only thing that may help will be it's "mini" Mini look... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Yea, but I didn't see the Smart Car coming to America either...or finding dealer principles stupid enough to buy a franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/01/report-...e-in-18-months/ So that would be about the beginning of 2011. Does this sound reasonable? Hasn't Ford been working on retooling facilities for quite awhile to bring in their new models. Or would this 18 months mean they would start importing vehicles then, with domestic production beginning later? I would think imported Fiats would be a price disadvantage. I would say having a substantial number of Fiats ready for the U.S. market in 18 months is very wishful thinking. But it depends in part on manufacturing location. Using Fiesta as a surrogate, it's most likely going to take between 24-30 months for a North American assembled model. Around 18-24 months if they want to directly import and the platforms don't take too much work, but profitability on imports is questionable (except maybe for Alfa). Sure they've done a lot of pre-work to sort out whether this arrangement should go through, but actually developing the brand strategy, homologating the product, developing differentiation, and building production facilities (including a required engine plant) is a totally different matter. I still keep thinking about the Chrysler "merger" with Daimler. I remember a Chrysler dealer that was interviewed on TV, and behind him was a showroom filled with banners proclaiming "SALE! SALE! SALE!". His comment was "I can't wait to get my hands on some of them Mercedes". So, maybe we can imagine Alfas in Chrysler showrooms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Yea, but I didn't see the Smart Car coming to America either...or finding dealer principles stupid enough to buy a franchise. And how many Smart Cars do you see on the road? How many do they sell a month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 And how many Smart Cars do you see on the road? How many do they sell a month? Annual sales are in the neighborhood of 25,000 so it'd be approximately 2,000/month. I've actually only seen one Smart Car in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
156n3rd Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Who cares? Let them come. Fiat has no positive brand recognition in the US. Any cars they get here in 18 months will be with minimal modification and not be optimized for the US market - like the Saturn Astra. These "new" Chryslers will share the showroom with the crappy leftovers. It will be years until there is a cohesive product line in Chrysler and Dodge showrooms. By that time, Ford will have the new Fiesta and Focus plus all the variants, the new Explorer, Escape/Kuga, the new Taurus etc. etc. And on top of that, the next gen Fords will be right along in 2012-2014. I see no worries from Ford about whatever Chrysler does. So you think that Chrysler/Fiat will have no chance against what Ford is going to offer? What is so important about brand recognition of the people in this country who have zero attention span? With the instant media set-up in the world, things can change in a second! It sounds like you might be afraid of competiton against Ford. In 18 months, let's see what Kia and Hyundai will be doing and how well they'll be doing it. Toyota and Honda are crashing. Nissan doesn't sell enough to be a factor, and Ford has what revolutionary design that will hit the streets in 18 months? How can you gurantee what they will release will be accepted by the fickle buying pubilc? I'm just asking. How did you ever come up with the notion that all their stuff will be left-overs? Where is the basis of fact to back that up? Just wanna know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 And how many Smart Cars do you see on the road? How many do they sell a month? I see them at least every other day near me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 With all due respect to Interpidious from another thread This is instant competition to the Mini-Cooper market. Notice the street tuner setup. Will it sell in volume? Doubtful. It's cute. I predict a maximum of 10 people crammed into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrtran Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Fix It Again Tony Didn't Fiat leave the US market in the early 80's because of failing sales? failing sales, failing engines, failing bodies, failing suspensions, failing electrics... whatever. (and, no, I've never owned - or fixed - a Fiat) :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Annual sales are in the neighborhood of 25,000 so it'd be approximately 2,000/month. I've actually only seen one Smart Car in person. There is a dealership here locally with about 15 sitting on the lot and I've even seen a few running around with plates on them. Soon the handfull of geeks that want one will have them and the brand will die like Daihatsu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 (edited) This is instant competition to the Mini-Cooper market. Notice the street tuner setup. Will it sell in volume? Doubtful. It's cute. I predict a maximum of 10 people crammed into it. That little roach might go up against the Smart but I think the Mini-Cooper is a higher class. So how long will this Chrysler/Fiat mis-match live? Personally I don't give it as long as the Daimler train wreck lasted. Edited May 3, 2009 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 That little roach might go up against the Smart but I think the Mini-Cooper is a higher class. So how long will this Chrysler/Fiat mis-match live? Personally I don't give it as long as the Daimler train wreck lasted. You do realise that this is in the same bracket as the Ford KA in Europe yes? Ford may have to import the KA now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 (edited) You do realize it IS the Ford Ka? (or actually the other way around) Edited May 3, 2009 by Intrepidatious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 You do realize it IS the Ford Ka? (or actually the other way around) oooooooooo, quite the dilemma if Ford wants that here now then, isn't it. Wonder how that will play out if it comes to that. I'm sure their talking about that right now. Good point, thanks for bring that to the table, very good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 oooooooooo, quite the dilemma if Ford wants that here now then, isn't it. Wonder how that will play out if it comes to that. I'm sure their talking about that right now. Good point, thanks for bring that to the table, very good point. This is a difficult situation. Of course every joint vehicle program operates under a set of contracts. There are four main areas: 1. Technology sharing 2. Specific Vehicle/Platform Supply Agreement 3. Powertrain Supply Agreement, and 4. Assembly Since the Fiat 500 and Ka are assembled in the same plant in Poland, all four contracts are likely. Fiat "owns" the platform (Panda), the technology, the powertrains, and the plant. That means there are likely restrictions on Ford -- i.e., Ford can't simply start building the Ka in, say, Mexico, without negotiating additional business arrangements with Fiat. Now...with Fiat supplying product to Chrysler (if it works), and everyone waxing eloquent on the virtues of the 500 as a cornerstone of the new Chrysler, how likely is it that Fiat would willingly grant Ford the right to manufacture the Ka elsewhere or to even ship it to the U.S. from Poland? They can't just say "no", but they can make things very difficult. The Ka has worked great for Ford so far -- the investment was a little over $300 million for an all-new product. Cheap at twice the price. But if the sub-b market is going to increase in the future, Ford might ultimately have to find a way to extract themselves from Fiat. That's going to be expensive. Or, alternatively, Ford could join with Fiat in a Chrysler plant in Mexico to jointly produce the 500 and Ka which would help both companies achieve economies of scale. However, ending up with a good business equation on those products is a big TBD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsonlu Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I don't think there is a good reason for Ford to start building Kas for North America, whether Fiat goes along or not, until Ford has had a chance to evaluate how the Fiesta is received by the market. If the Fiesta doesn't do well, there would be no chance that the Ka would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I don't think there is a good reason for Ford to start building Kas for North America, whether Fiat goes along or not, until Ford has had a chance to evaluate how the Fiesta is received by the market. If the Fiesta doesn't do well, there would be no chance that the Ka would. I see no reason why the Fiesta should not do as well if not (and more than likely) better than the other b-cars out there on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 First model will be the Fiat Charger Yea Ha!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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