Ford Mustang is officially NASCAR-bound in the Nationwide Series

[chevys]

I watched a sports car race a while back and I cant think of the series name it made nascam look terrible. The Mustangs could pull the bimmers down the straight but the bimmers were better in the turns. The Audies were somewhere inbetween and I mean they were getting after each other. It was truely exciting racing to watch and the Mustangs in that series are tough.

[Ralph Greene]

The problem is NASCAR, whether you like the sport or not, has made a whole series (BUSINESS) around mostly oval track racing where even the Nationwide cars are approaching 200 MPH, except for two road courses and a couple short tracks, and I noticed the Sprint Cup cars were hitting 205 at Indy this past weekend.

 

You can't race anything looking like a stock car at these speeds. And no one yet has developed any race car as safe as the COT for them to race. And I don't think a 5.0 FR 500C would hold up for 500 miles of fender banging at 9000 RPM. They are just not developed enough yet for that. And if they could, the teams could not afford to change over to them very quickly....building 20-30 cars for a season of racing, and probably 100 engines or so. Plus all the other super heavy duty parts these Sprint Cup and Nationwide cars have that make them so durable for this kind of racing.

 

However....I imagine NASCAR has heard you, and this may be the first step in attempting to go back to their roots, a little, with cars more resembling what you can buy. But I don't see how NASCAR can ever race anything resembling a stock car with all their safety requirements....on the tracks they currently use. And I don't see them becoming a road course series. The COT is designed from the inside out to save lives. It does that, but I agree with some of above statements....the thrill of watching these aero down force race cars is mostly gone for me also.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Ralph Greene

[goinbroke2]

You know what Ralph, when someone says "can't" and other sheep say "ok" then you end up with the crap that is nascar today. They "built it" for cars to run 200mph? BULLSHIT! They went faster and faster and when Elliot went 205mph back in '85 everybody freaked out. The artificial 200mph speedlimit was born. Now they try to make cars as safe as they can at 200mph.

 

What a load of crap!

 

Nascar came out and said "next year you have to run this cott car". They could of just as easily said "boys, in two years time we're going to stock production templates. Build your car and fit the outer skin of the factory car over it."

 

or,

"Boys, we're going to drop the compression ratio's and carb size down and run stock bodies, we're looking around 140-150mph" The cars can be safe stockcars underneath and production bodies on top.

 

Hell they could use production vehicles with safety upgrades and side by side at 130mph would be cool. Cars didn't always run 200mph! As far as fan appeal etc (the other oh it can't be done) well side by side at up to 120-140mph was good enough for the first 30 years, besides the next 20 years of speedlimit racing the focus has been on close competition. It's certainly easier to get no name underfunded teams to compete at 130mph as opposed to 200mph.

 

I don't buy the "can't" attitude at all, I think it's "won't".

[Edstock]

and I noticed the Sprint Cup cars were hitting 205 at Indy this past weekend.

 

You can't race anything looking like a stock car at these speeds. And no one yet has developed any race car as safe as the COT for them to race.

Uh, you're entitled to your opinion. The gang that run DTM might disagree. It's a matter of attitude. If you drink the NASCAR Koolaid, why, of course, stock bodied cars can't do. But the Germans start with a production platform and make a sled that can do. Of course the body panels are not production, but the DTM cars have a "stock" look with the doors, windows and front clip that makes NASCAR look like a bad, bad joke.

http://www.dtm.com/index.php?lang=en

 

 

Again, get rid of the low ride height and the ground effect, drop top speeds to 175 or so, and get rid of the NASCAR COT.

[White99GT]

And I don't think a 5.0 FR 500C would hold up for 500 miles of fender banging at 9000 RPM.

 

Uh, Ralph, 5.0L Cammers run DP i.e. 24 hours of LeMans. Yates pushed for the Mod motors to be allowed in NASCAR several years ago because of the potential and reliaility he saw in his DP Cammers.

[White99GT]

I don't buy the "can't" attitude at all, I think it's "won't".

 

Absolutely. In fact, everytime I hear Ralph chime on racing or performance, all I hear is "can't, can't, can't".

[Ralph Greene]

NASCAR is not about Sport. It's a business. I personally enjoyed it much more myself years ago....I thought the racing was much better. BTW....all I ever heard Yates say was the 5.0 cammer had potential and needed a lot of development work to be used in NASCAR.

 

I have been involved in the business side of a race team....my brother was a NASCAR owner....so I know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars it takes to field a car for a race, and the cars will change when the business makes them change.

 

When NASCAR thinks more stock appearing cars will help fill up the grandstands better, and help keep those fat TV contracts, you will get them.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Ralph Greene

[White99GT]

BTW....all I ever heard Yates say was the 5.0 cammer had potential and needed a lot of development work to be used in NASCAR.

 

Nope, not what he said. In fact, he said just the opposite.

 

February 18, 2003 - A new engine for NASCAR Winston Cup? If you pose that question to Robert Yates, owner of the Ford Tauruses driven by Dale Jarrett and Elliott Sadler, he'll give you a resounding, "Yes."

 

Yates, recognized as one of the greatest engine builders in the history of NASCAR Winston Cup racing, worked on the 5.0 Liter V8 in the Ford Focus Daytona Prototype which captured the pole and went on to a class win at the Rolex 24 Hours race at Daytona International Speedway a couple of weeks ago. The 5.0 Liter engine is based off the 4.6 Liter V8 engines currently installed in many productions cars built by Ford, including the Mustang.

 

As the NASCAR Winston Cup Series heads to Rockingham for this weekend's Subway 400, Yates gave his reasons why it's time to start doing something different under the hood.

 

ROBERT YATES, Owner - No. 88 and No. 38 Ford Tauruses - "Our first reaction when we started the project was that we would have to do everything -- build a four-valve engine and a new block and a new head because we didn't think the engine that was in a street car would be any good for what we were doing. Well, it was the exact opposite. It's a really well-designed engine and while we had to do some things to it to make it suit racing, a majority of the components are what you find when you buy a 4.6 liter engine. When we finished with the race engine, it sort of appeared to be bulky but the overhead cam stuff generates some dimension. It's chain driven with dual cams and all of these components are what you get in your car. These are all 300,000-400,000 mile parts that we run very hard and they did a great job while running the 24 Hours. The motor ran perfectly, so by putting some of the applications we use in racing with the pistons and the rings and maybe using some lighter components than maybe a street car would have, we pretty much went after a stock engine and souped it up."

 

YOU BELIEVE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL COME TO WINSTON CUP, DON'T YOU? "These things would do fine right here today. They'll make all the horsepower we need or more than we need for this type of racing at a considerably less cost. Once you put it into production, the part costs come way down. We're still working on a 1955 platform engine. We can produce and we're lifting valves with one-inch openings and you can open this other valve a half-inch, half the dimension, by having two valves and get good performance out of it, so it's what's been developed in our street cars. I think we sort of felt proud in the sixties and early seventies that some of our technology went back to the manufacturer, but since then we've really sort of disconnected from the manufacturer. There's not much stock about our engines. This new engine would probably be healthy because if someone knows how to build it for racing, and then you go home and want to one day work in a dealership, you can have a lot of knowledge about what's going on with the fuel injection system and things like that. Certainly, everybody is gonna have a lot of attention on fuel efficiency and you can't get anymore efficient than to sit there and let a computer control what the engine needs. The mapping and programming with computers to get a very efficient engine is all common sense. For the sanctioning body, it would actually give them better control over what's going on, so if they really want to control the people from getting some great big advantage on the engines, then computerize them and fuel inject them - get way from this four-barrel carburetor. The only reason they make it now is because we use it and even though we do a good job and make them pretty efficient there eventually will be no market for what we do here. In fact, there's probably no market now. I think someone would rather have a good, driveable, clean-burning engine in their '32 Ford as to having something that produces black smoke. It's really getting a little bit ancient and I'm glad my son gets to see what's in the new engine. When you open the hood, you don't see anything but real nice fiberglass covers and it's been enlightening for me to work on them."

 

WHAT DOES THIS ENGINE HAVE THAT MAKES IT SO GOOD? "This engine has all the variable vents that you'd like to have for good power and then you map it with computers so that you have all the right fuel at the right time. If you don't need it, you can take it away. They're very simple looking systems for people that are computer literate. It's the future. I think when every manufacturer has it, they would just like to throw all the tooling away to massage stuff. I mean, there aren't too many people out there who have a need for a cast-iron block. There's no market for it. There's no reason for Ford, GM, Toyota or Chrysler to keep processing this engine. Obviously, it can't go away today, but the day that every manufacturer has something that can come into the series, we should give it a try. I think this is a big step in the right direction for our future in NASCAR. You probably won't see it for five years, but a year or so ago you couldn't see it for 10 years. I'd like to see it get to a point where we can get the cost down and put cost limits on engines because we're talking about an engine that's very durable and has a great design. This engine is much more efficient and it would produce good racing. The thing I like about it is that this engine does things with more ease. To me, it's got to be more exciting for the manufacturers because this is what they've designed and what they work with. They want to build better and more efficient engines and I think this would be a big step in the right direction. NASCAR is in the business of putting on a show. They don't design and they don't build engines. Their goal is to keep it very competitive, which they do, so why not use the technology we have now and go back to the roots of stock car racing and make it so the manufacturers are the guys that design engines? Then I think we'll be a whole lot closer together with what we're doing. I think it makes sense. If I was a manufacturer and just looking at it from that side of the fence, I would be much more interested in doing engine development such as this. I would like to see that gap closed up and closed up in a hurry. I think it would really help our costs and I think it would be healthy for every manufacturer."

[White99GT]

Kind of sounds like what I've been saying on this board for years. Right from Robert Yates, a man who has actually raced Modulars, whodda thunk it?

[IMSA-XJR9]

Kind of sounds like what I've been saying on this board for years. Right from Robert Yates, a man who has actually raced Modulars, whodda thunk it?

 

I heard Mr. Roush also put a 5.0 DP engine in Cup Car (recently) . . . . just for kicks . . . . though I am not sure if it was a COT or the old car.

[chevys]

I could not agree more with you guys but Ralph does have a point. Its all about money for the France family mafia. I honestly think the drivers are afraid of them but Brian France has run this sport into the ground. Its time to wake up and make some major changes. As far as the money goes for teams look who has it now. Hendricks, Roush, Joe Gibbs, Richard Childress, and Petty motor sports. Tony Stewart is a Hendrick satilite team and the Wood bros are close to Roush along with Yates.

 

So you have 20-25 cars that control the sport anyway and they have all the money. They should be limited to two cars per team imo because now its a monopoly. Back in the day thats the way it was and its time for some major changes and I would like to see the mod motor in the sport so the chevy fan boys would have something to whine about.

 

Remember how they all cried when Bill Elliott was smoking their asses. I just hate the sport as it exists now and used to love it. Im not alone either as a lot of my friends feel the same way along with most of you guys.

 

What would be ideal is for somebody to start a new series that has some clout. Stewart threatened to do it years ago but of late he seems like a butt kisser now that he is an owner. Kick the France family out and bring back real racing.

[Ralph Greene]

When more modern engines make business sense, when all the makes have a similar engine, when NASCAR can figure out how to control them, you will see them. Or maybe when Honda comes in, you might see them.

 

However....I don't recall the development work being done on them to get them to 850-900 reliable HP for NASCAR use yet. I'm sure they are no where near that stressed in endurance racing.

 

Guys....I'm in favor of modern engines, in favor of stock appearing cars....I'm just pointing out why NASCAR doesn't have them yet. It's their business, and they run it like they see fit.

[IMSA-XJR9]

When more modern engines make business sense, when all the makes have a similar engine, when NASCAR can figure out how to control them, you will see them. Or maybe when Honda comes in, you might see them.

 

However....I don't recall the development work being done on them to get them to 850-900 reliable HP for NASCAR use yet. I'm sure they are no where near that stressed in endurance racing.

 

Guys....I'm in favor of modern engines, in favor of stock appearing cars....I'm just pointing out why NASCAR doesn't have them yet. It's their business, and they run it like they see fit.

 

The only make that doesn't have a "similar engine" from the NASCAR owned Rolex DPs is Chrysler. And you don't need 850-900HP for Super Speedways, heck they only make ~450-550hp with the plates and the racing is horrible.

 

But I agree . . . when it makes sense for NASCAR they will change . . .

Edited July 29, 2009 by IMSA-XJR9

[Edstock]

 

OZ V-8 stock car racing: Real modern OHC V-8's, real headlights, real doors, real windows, real tailights, 200 mph. The horror! The horror!

[Deanh]

 

OZ V-8 stock car racing: Real modern OHC V-8's, real headlights, real doors, real windows, real tailights, 200 mph. The horror! The horror!

I was in New Zealand at a buddys place in Hamilton when they had one of these races. they close the streets off erect grandstands , the WORKS. He owns a pub there called the fox N Hounds...busy time of year. And apparently the spectacle is absolutely AWESOME!

Edited July 29, 2009 by Deanh

[IMSA-XJR9]

 

OZ V-8 stock car racing: Real modern OHC V-8's, real headlights, real doors, real windows, real tailights, 200 mph. The horror! The horror!

 

Aussie V8s still use 5.0L OHV Engines (Ford=Windsor based).

 

For sake of reference . . . http://wapedia.mobi/en/V8_Supercars?t=2.4 and http://www.v8supercars.com.au/content/atta...20Ford%20BF.pdf.

Edited July 29, 2009 by IMSA-XJR9

[Edstock]

So, they're push-rod V-8's. I don't have a problem with that. Real doors, real headlights, real car. Makes NASCAR look like a ghastly joke that belies its name.

[Deanh]

So, they're push-rod V-8's. I don't have a problem with that. Real doors, real headlights, real car. Makes NASCAR look like a ghastly joke that belies its name.

you should hear em......

[one2gamble]

When more modern engines make business sense, when all the makes have a similar engine, when NASCAR can figure out how to control them, you will see them. Or maybe when Honda comes in, you might see them.

 

However....I don't recall the development work being done on them to get them to 850-900 reliable HP for NASCAR use yet. I'm sure they are no where near that stressed in endurance racing.

 

Guys....I'm in favor of modern engines, in favor of stock appearing cars....I'm just pointing out why NASCAR doesn't have them yet. It's their business, and they run it like they see fit.

 

 

what is with all this similar bullshot. What happened to run what you brung? Sure, there has to be some regulations but other racing series do it 100 times better. ALMS and World Superbike are two series that are just a blast to watch and have "stock" cars and bikes running against each other.

Edited July 29, 2009 by one2gamble

[Deanh]

what is with all this similar bullshot. What happened to run what you brung? Sure, there has to be some regulations but other racing series do it 100 times better. ALMS and World Superbike are two series that are just a blast to watch and have "stock" cars and bikes running against each other.

GO APRILIA!

[one2gamble]

GO APRILIA!

 

 

boooooooo, you going to pick up the new RSV?

 

[Deanh]

boooooooo, you going to pick up the new RSV?

 

don't have a pot to pee in right now...plus don't think they have been released yet...I'm a Twin lover anyways....do like the Duck streetfighter....

[Mark B. Morrow]

So, they're push-rod V-8's. I don't have a problem with that. Real doors, real headlights, real car. Makes NASCAR look like a ghastly joke that belies its name.

 

 

National

Association of

Sticker

Car

Auto

Racing

 

Now it makes sense.

[630land]

NASCAR is all about corporate America, and the mainsteam fans who really only care about the drivers and sponsors. They root for Tony Stewart or Jeff Gordon and couldnt care less about the car makes. Also, it's for little kids with the Cheerios and M&M cars.

[SVT_MAN]

You guys do know that this is a poorly done Photoshop, correct?