Catastrophic Engine Failure on 2006 Escape Hybrid

[timmm55]

Does Ford have to cover anything after the warranty expires? No, they don't but in "special" cases like this, they should do something for the customer.

 

What exactly is your job at a dealership?

 

Why are you brow beating the witness? This is a board, not a court of law. Why should he reveal his work and employment to everyone who passes by? NOYB!

 

I still think, maybe, there is a possibility his dealership might help out a bit.......now that they know what went wrong. If what he said was true.....maybe!

But I don't think pissing and moaning on every board he could find, before the results were in, is going to do him any good. This isn't good will by the customer either.

[wptski]

Why are you brow beating the witness? This is a board, not a court of law. Why should he reveal his work and employment to everyone who passes by? NOYB!

 

I still think, maybe, there is a possibility his dealership might help out a bit.......now that they know what went wrong. If what he said was true.....maybe!

But I don't think pissing and moaning on every board he could find, before the results were in, is going to do him any good. This isn't good will by the customer either.

He said that I don't know anything. I asked why should he? He said that he works at a Ford dealer and I worked for Ford also. Just wondering if he deals directly with customers? OMG if he does! He doesn't have to answer anything. Your being way too serious about this.

 

This is open forum and you can say good things or bad things about Ford products. I've seen the same question posted in three Ford Forums

 

BTW- I'm not questioning the owners maintainence choice of Jiffy Lube, I'm questioning the way dealers do repairs, they replace assemblies not parts.

[atomaro]

This thread is getting as pointless as the one with the guy that has the 5 million mile Mustang.

[YT90SC]

He said that I don't know anything. I asked why should he? He said that he works at a Ford dealer and I worked for Ford also. Just wondering if he deals directly with customers? OMG if he does! He doesn't have to answer anything. Your being way too serious about this.

 

This is open forum and you can say good things or bad things about Ford products. I've seen the same question posted in three Ford Forums

 

BTW- I'm not questioning the owners maintainence choice of Jiffy Lube, I'm questioning the way dealers do repairs, they replace assemblies not parts.

 

What is wrong with replacing an assembly when the cost to repair it is HIGHER than the cost to replace? I am not sure I understand your arguement.

[wptski]

What is wrong with replacing an assembly when the cost to repair it is HIGHER than the cost to replace? I am not sure I understand your arguement.

That's the point! It's not cheaper, just easier. I repaired machine tools for Ford, so there must be a reason for what we did. The reason was to save money. We rebuilt gearboxes, air/hydraulic cylinders, valves, etc. Makes no sense to buy a new hydraulic cylinder when you can repair the leaky one for a fraction of the cost. They may purchase new for a spare and rebuild from then on.

 

Some things they don't rebuilt becasue it's cheaper to buy new but that's real small stuff, nothing that costs thousands of dollars.

[Ralph Greene]

Stuff happens. You pay. That's how life is. I also don't see why Ford should pay anything. In they fix your vehicle, they have to fix others. Then what is point in having terms of a warranty? In some of your above posts, you mention getting other hi mileage cars repared when beyond warranty. You are spoiled. If you wish to avoid the unexpected repair cost, then insure against it.

[wptski]

Stuff happens. You pay. That's how life is. I also don't see why Ford should pay anything. In they fix your vehicle, they have to fix others. Then what is point in having terms of a warranty? In some of your above posts, you mention getting other hi mileage cars repared when beyond warranty. You are spoiled. If you wish to avoid the unexpected repair cost, then insure against it.

Using "quotes" would help! Who you? Me? If so, I've never said that I got anything done for FREE after the warranty expires but have "heard" that others have. It happens in this and other industries.

[YT90SC]

That's the point! It's not cheaper, just easier. I repaired machine tools for Ford, so there must be a reason for what we did. The reason was to save money. We rebuilt gearboxes, air/hydraulic cylinders, valves, etc. Makes no sense to buy a new hydraulic cylinder when you can repair the leaky one for a fraction of the cost. They may purchase new for a spare and rebuild from then on.

 

Some things they don't rebuilt becasue it's cheaper to buy new but that's real small stuff, nothing that costs thousands of dollars.

 

If he suffered a catastrophic failure, it would be cheaper to replace the long block than to repair it. Period. Take a bearing out, or break a piston (single) MAY be cheaper to repair, but take out more than one and you have probably contaminated the entire oiling system. (there is only so much crap a filter will hold before it bypasses) Contaminate the system and you have to put in all parts that are lubricated, at more cost. IT adds up pretty darn fast, when you add the extra labor and the machine time. Parts are cheap, labor is not.

 

At my dealership, we offer the repair vs. replace. 75% of the time it is cheaper to replace. If it isn't it is close enough that the customer usually opts for the longer warranty offered by the assembly. REMEMBER all engines and trannies have 3yr/100k warranty, which is FAR better than 12mo/12k miles that is the standard that we can offer for in shop warranty. 'Ease' has NOTHING to do with it. I would prefer to repair EVERY thing that comes in the door. I make more money that way, per R.O., but that almost never happens.

[YT90SC]

FYI: List price on an engine assy is about $3500 for a long block. that is oil pan to valvecover. Lets assume, for sake of arguement that the lower end CAN be repaired, and that the labor and parts for getting to the point of having the engine on the stand, ready to be repaired, is the same, so basically we are looking at building a shorty and reassembling into a long block VS replacing the long block.

oil pump and pickup-$100.

headgasket-59

headbolts -32

crank bolt (one time use) 10

rear main 67

front main 13

spark plugs 72

valvecover gasket 28

timing set 231

oil pump drive 70

tube of RTV for pan gasket 25

oil filter adaptor 56

Figure $150 to have the head disassembled by a machine shop and checked out. Figure $100 to bore and deck, $100 to align hone the mains, 50 or so to hot tank.

You are just a smidge over $1100, there, without even talking crank, rods or pistons. Add another 100 for various items like sensor o rings, block core plugs and whatnot. IF it is the same as a std I-4, it is 13 more hours to rebuild, for another $1100. That puts you at $2350, sans rods, pistons, bearings and rings and that is all IF and BIG IF the head is ok. That leaves us with $1150. Typically, a crank would run you in the $350 range. Pistons about $30 each, rings another $10 each. Rods, lets guess at $35 each bearings $15 each. Now that margin has slipped to just $455, between the two. For most folks a week less in the shop and 2 years and 88k more miles is worth $455. BUT here is final nail in the coffin: RODS, PISTONS, RINGS, BEARINGS ARE NOT SERVICED SEPERATELY FROM THE SHORT BLOCK.

[chiefstang]

He said that I don't know anything. I asked why should he? He said that he works at a Ford dealer and I worked for Ford also. Just wondering if he deals directly with customers? OMG if he does! He doesn't have to answer anything. Your being way too serious about this.

 

This is open forum and you can say good things or bad things about Ford products. I've seen the same question posted in three Ford Forums

 

BTW- I'm not questioning the owners maintainence choice of Jiffy Lube, I'm questioning the way dealers do repairs, they replace assemblies not parts.

 

Sorry, I was off yesterday. but to answer you : I do Sales, F&I, and order the inventory for our store.

 

I highlighted that for you because in F&I, it's my job to go over warranty coverage and sell extended plans. So yes, I know what I'm talking about a little more than someone who say, pushes a button all day.

 

I think you've made that very obvious, as many of the posters here (also telling you you're cluless) work at dealerships too.

 

As for you saying "OMG he deals with customers", you're right. I do. I'm very good at what I do, and I barely have to watch the lot because of repeat business. None of them seem to have as much trouble grasping the obvious as you do. Even the guy who started the thread figured it out, why can't you wrap your head around it?

 

To quote a sig on these forums: "A child of eight can grasp this... Someone fetch me a child of eight!"

[wptski]

I think you've made that very obvious, as many of the posters here (also telling you you're cluless) work at dealerships too.

I'm not clueless and I believe your the only one that has reverted to name calling! I just don't agree with everybody else! Sorry I may have misworded that a bit. I don't and never have worked at a Ford or any other dealership. I worked at a Ford manufacturing plant which is obvious the problem because we don't do things like a dealership does. We all deal with warranties and under certain circumstances, even when a warranty has expired, a machine tool manufacturer will pay for a repair or at least the parts. If you have 8 or 10 machines that go for $800K a piece, they like to keep the customer happy to purchase again.

[wptski]

If he suffered a catastrophic failure, it would be cheaper to replace the long block than to repair it. Period. Take a bearing out, or break a piston (single) MAY be cheaper to repair, but take out more than one and you have probably contaminated the entire oiling system. (there is only so much crap a filter will hold before it bypasses) Contaminate the system and you have to put in all parts that are lubricated, at more cost. IT adds up pretty darn fast, when you add the extra labor and the machine time. Parts are cheap, labor is not.

 

At my dealership, we offer the repair vs. replace. 75% of the time it is cheaper to replace. If it isn't it is close enough that the customer usually opts for the longer warranty offered by the assembly. REMEMBER all engines and trannies have 3yr/100k warranty, which is FAR better than 12mo/12k miles that is the standard that we can offer for in shop warranty. 'Ease' has NOTHING to do with it. I would prefer to repair EVERY thing that comes in the door. I make more money that way, per R.O., but that almost never happens.

If it's cheaper to replace than repair 75% of the time then there is no comparison between a Ford Dealership and a Ford Manufacturing Plant.

 

Okay, that's said and done, we work in different worlds but the point is, should Ford help in the cost of this repair? I say YES but most say NO!

[chiefstang]

I say YES but most say NO!

 

Fair enough. :beerchug:

[YT90SC]

If it's cheaper to replace than repair 75% of the time then there is no comparison between a Ford Dealership and a Ford Manufacturing Plant.

 

Okay, that's said and done, we work in different worlds but the point is, should Ford help in the cost of this repair? I say YES but most say NO!

 

It is not said and done. You bashed dealership repairs. The difference is YOU are paid hourly. SO if you spend 10 hours installing an 80 cent part that has failed and not damaged other parts in that assembly instead of replacing the assembly, you still get paid. To Ford, your salary is a set cost, no matter what you are doing and therefore the cheaper the part the better. On our end, we are paid commission. No work completed, no pay. Labor is not figured as a set cost to the customer or the dealership. AND when our assemblies fail, it usually damages MUCH more than the causal part. (For someone who works in a mechanically intensive job, I'd think you would realize this) I would LOVE to be paid hourly, so I can fix every little part, no matter how long it took. For us, literally time IS money.

Bashing dealership repair practices when you don't have a clue about how it works in the real world or what you are talking about is not a great idea. Especially when you have a nice union protected job that you get paid for, when all you HAVE to do it get it is clock in and work just hard enough to not get fired. No bash there, just the truth. ANY hourly or salaried person will become complacent at the least. Ever see 'Office Space"? Commission keeps you hungry, makes you want to work better, faster, smarter, harder, wether it be service or sales.

 

And, sorry, dude is out. He was out of his warranty, period. Ford doesn't have and shouldn't have any obligation to him. Sorry he had the problem. But where do you stop? He is only 5000 miles out of the period of the warranty... what about if he was 10000? 20? 100k? Wait it ENDED at 60k. PERIOD. Not even 60,001. Black and white. Cut and dried, especailly when it is not at the selling or servicing dealership. Not hard to understand.

 

Oh, and for what it is worth, the whole ,"I am never buying X again" or "I am going to buy Y because of my experiences with X" will not earn you any help. It is not a threat, it just makes you sound childish and decrease the desire of that person to want to help you.

 

And finally, when as a society did we decide it was ok for us all to degenerate to the "I am special so THE WORLD owes me everything" mentality?

Edited September 5, 2009 by YT90SC

[wptski]

It is not said and done. You bashed dealership repairs. The difference is YOU are paid hourly. SO if you spend 10 hours installing an 80 cent part that has failed and not damaged other parts in that assembly instead of replacing the assembly, you still get paid. To Ford, your salary is a set cost, no matter what you are doing and therefore the cheaper the part the better. On our end, we are paid commission. No work completed, no pay. Labor is not figured as a set cost to the customer or the dealership. AND when our assemblies fail, it usually damages MUCH more than the causal part. (For someone who works in a mechanically intensive job, I'd think you would realize this) I would LOVE to be paid hourly, so I can fix every little part, no matter how long it took. For us, literally time IS money.

Bashing dealership repair practices when you don't have a clue about how it works in the real world or what you are talking about is not a great idea. Especially when you have a nice union protected job that you get paid for, when all you HAVE to do it get it is clock in and work just hard enough to not get fired. No bash there, just the truth. ANY hourly or salaried person will become complacent at the least. Ever see 'Office Space"? Commission keeps you hungry, makes you want to work better, faster, smarter, harder, wether it be service or sales.

 

And, sorry, dude is out. He was out of his warranty, period. Ford doesn't have and shouldn't have any obligation to him. Sorry he had the problem. But where do you stop? He is only 5000 miles out of the period of the warranty... what about if he was 10000? 20? 100k? Wait it ENDED at 60k. PERIOD. Not even 60,001. Black and white. Cut and dried, especailly when it is not at the selling or servicing dealership. Not hard to understand.

 

Oh, and for what it is worth, the whole ,"I am never buying X again" or "I am going to buy Y because of my experiences with X" will not earn you any help. It is not a threat, it just makes you sound childish and decrease the desire of that person to want to help you.

 

And finally, when as a society did we decide it was ok for us all to degenerate to the "I am special so THE WORLD owes me everything" mentality?

I "questioned" not "bashed" dealer repairs because at that time I thought that it was cheaper to repair than to replace.

 

It may take 10 hours or more to replace a $.80 part depending where it is! We don't "just" fix every little thing we see either! Sometimes we are expected to perform magic while people are on their twenty minute break or lunch. I know one particular assembly line that makes $27,000/hr, so when it's down that's what they lose. They get a bit annoyed if you keep it down. Futhermore, unlike the past where my supervisor was from the ranks, now they are from K-Mart, PayLess or as long as they are a college grad! Talk about clueless.

 

You sound like one of those Senators from the South during the BailOut talks! I thought that you worked at a Ford DealerShip? You talk like more like it's Honda/Toyota. I was indirect labor or not directly responsible for production. Similiar to insurance, something you pay for but not always use. I may do nothing all day or never stop moving too.

 

Have you ever work in skilled trades at Ford? Some of the stuff you hear are just pure BS. I will admit that in the past, things did go on. Now, how can you have three twelve hours shifts?? This was all company created, pretaining to production workers, get you production out and we don't care what you do or where your at! No such stuff goes on today and hasn't for some time.

 

How many auto mechanics have died because of work related accidents? Anybody lose any fingers or hands? I know one that lost a hand, lots that lost fingers and at least three that died on the job. Hmmm, all they had to do was just punch in too! I wish that I could have a machine on a lift to get underneath it easily.

 

BTW: Who's your employer? Manufacturer or a Ford(or whoever) Dealership owner?