Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 The Sun reports... KIA and Hyundai Worlds No4 They are the only major manufacturers to increase sales during the first half of this year. They have already sold more than 2.1million vehicles to go ahead of Ford as the fourth biggest-selling car brand, behind Toyota, General Motors and VW. The Government's Scrappage programme has accelerated the Koreans' growth in the UK. Their stablemates Hyundai have grabbed all the headlines with the i10 - the best-selling car in the scheme - but Kia have also quietly benefited. So much so that in a UK car market DOWN 25 per cent in total sales this year, Kia sales will be UP 16 per cent. LINK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 It stands to reason that a company that specializes in inexpensive small cars would do well in recession-hit Europe. Also, I don't know about their European line, but Hyundai's cars have only fairly recently began to offer excellent gas mileage here in the US. If the same holds true in Europe, that's another reason their sales might just now be taking off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 "...MERCEDES, Porsche and Jaguar owners have been scrapping their luxury motors in favour of the ultra-cheap Kia Picanto. Makers of the £6,195 runaround - top speed 85mph - have taken in a Porsche 924 and 944, five Jags, 53 Mercedes and 30 BMWs since the Government began its scrappage scheme last month. ..." I'll scrap my Merc...for Kia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) What I would wager to guess is that Kia and Hyundai are at the automotive forefront of the phenomenon described in this recent article in Wired magazine: The Good Enough Revolution: When Cheap and Simple Is Just Fine EXCERPT: "....The Flip's success stunned the industry, but it shouldn't have. It's just the latest triumph of what might be called Good Enough tech. Cheap, fast, simple tools are suddenly everywhere. We get our breaking news from blogs, we make spotty long-distance calls on Skype, we watch video on small computer screens rather than TVs, and more and more of us are carrying around dinky, low-power netbook computers that are just good enough to meet our surfing and emailing needs. The low end has never been riding higher. So what happened? Well, in short, technology happened. The world has sped up, become more connected and a whole lot busier. As a result, what consumers want from the products and services they buy is fundamentally changing. We now favor flexibility over high fidelity, convenience over features, quick and dirty over slow and polished. Having it here and now is more important than having it perfect. These changes run so deep and wide, they're actually altering what we mean when we describe a product as "high-quality." And it's happening everywhere. As more sectors connect to the digital world, from medicine to the military, they too are seeing the rise of Good Enough tools like the Flip. Suddenly what seemed perfect is anything but, and products that appear mediocre at first glance are often the perfect fit. The good news is that this trend is ideally suited to the times. As the worst recession in 75 years rolls on, it's the light and nimble products that are having all the impact—exactly the type of thing that lean startups and small-scale enterprises are best at. And from impact can come big sales. " After driving a Kia Spectra over the past 5 years (just one of my family's vehicles consisting additionally of a Chevy, Ford, and Jeep), I personally think that H/K actually *exceeds* the "good enough" philosophy. But the gist of the article still covers their philosophy. After another review of the article, it is probably suited more towards describing the inevitable entry of both China and India into the U.S. automotive market. The interesting thing to note is, that as real wages are falling, Ford is going upscale. I was talking with a Ford engineer this weekend, and he said that he'd really like to pick up a Taurus SHO but couldn't justify/swing the price. He also said that the Focus (his ride of choice) is also going up market.... something those of us on here have known for quite awhile. Hyundai is also following this same course, and it will be interesting to see if they retain their growing sales. I suspect that they will have to continue to trade on lower pricing to keep the momentum up. It will be interesting to see how Ford's attempts at going up scale pan out. There's obviously better profit margins "up there", but will the buyers follow them? Time will tell. -Ovaltine Edited September 21, 2009 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 It also helps that their products are getting a lot better. That what you think you know about their products based on past vehicles of theirs you have driven, is no longer true about their new products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 It will be interesting to see how Ford's attempts at going up scale pan out. There's obviously better profit margins "up there", but will the buyers follow them? Time will tell. -Ovaltine Ford is moving upscale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 It also helps that their products are getting a lot better. That what you think you know about their products based on past vehicles of theirs you have driven, is no longer true about their new products. My Spectra's a 2004.5 model, and I actually can see where Kia (probably Hyundai too) is learning that they needed to scale some things back to stay profitable. By that I mean, my 2004.5 has soft touch door panels and armrests, dashboard, and a durable but still luxurious feeling soft cloth interior. It also has keylocks in both front doors. The new Forte has hard plastic EVERYWHERE now, and cheaper feeling cloth in the seats. But... it also now has ABS and I believe traction control standard, in addition to an upgraded stereo system w/Bluetooth / Ipod connectivity, etc. And the Spectra even lost the dual keyed doors a year or two ago. So it's appararent that some monies are being re-appropriated within their vehicles.... which isn't exactly a stupid thing if you're trying to stay profitable/competitive. -Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Ford is moving upscale? Taurus base price for an SE starts at $25,170, and I believe it goes up to $38k+ for a SHO. That's looking like "upscale" territory for me! And as I stated before, a Ford engineer I know that's VERY close to the small car programs confirmed reports I've seen online that the Focus is moving upscale (within reason), and the Fiesta will take over the bottom rung. -Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 The new Forte has hard plastic EVERYWHERE now, and cheaper feeling cloth in the seats. ... it also now has ABS and I believe traction control standard Standard ABS and traction control are basically mandatory with any new vehicle these days. They will be required on all vehicles starting in 2012 anyway, as they are required for stability control systems. Disappointing to hear about the hard plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Taurus base price for an SE starts at $25,170, and I believe it goes up to $38k+ for a SHO. That's looking like "upscale" territory for me! And as I stated before, a Ford engineer I know that's VERY close to the small car programs confirmed reports I've seen online that the Focus is moving upscale (within reason), and the Fiesta will take over the bottom rung. -Ovaltine Toyota and Nissan have occupied that price range for a little while now. All of those high end options that everyone pointed out that Ford was lacking pushes the pricing envelope. And of course the Focus is going to move upscale, there has to be room somewhere for the Fiesta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) For more than 100 years, Americans have had a love affair with their vehicles. Vehicles have been a much bigger part of people's lives than just being a transportation device. What you drive has been a statement of what you are or aren't (to some people anyway), has been a statement of your financial station in life (some people), and more recently has become a statement of how you feel about "excess" (again....some people). I wonder when/if this will change, and we look at our vehicles the same way we look at our kitchen appliances. The simple cheap reliable economical Hyundai and Kia come to mind as those kinds of vehicles....at least in their lower lines. Edited September 21, 2009 by Ralph Greene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I wonder when/if this will change, and we look at our vehicles the same way we look at our kitchen appliances. As the masses become more brain dead it's certainly a possibility. Then again, I even care what my kitchen appliances look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
156n3rd Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 How did they do it? Excellent marketing. Entry-level cars that work, sell. And by having many products to sell. They just haven't done it like gee em, which had to go bankrupt to stay in buisness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBear Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Taurus base price for an SE starts at $25,170, and I believe it goes up to $38k+ for a SHO. That's looking like "upscale" territory for me!And as I stated before, a Ford engineer I know that's VERY close to the small car programs confirmed reports I've seen online that the Focus is moving upscale (within reason), and the Fiesta will take over the bottom rung. -Ovaltine That is upscale pricing. I'll be interested, especially from a Left-Coast perspective, to see how the new Taurus sells, for two reasons. 1) This is import territory and 2) the majority of Camry's and Accord's are sold as base 4 cyl models. Be interesting to see how many of those owners "move up" to a Taurus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 That is upscale pricing. I'll be interested, especially from a Left-Coast perspective, to see how the new Taurus sells, for two reasons. 1) This is import territory and 2) the majority of Camry's and Accord's are sold as base 4 cyl models. Be interesting to see how many of those owners "move up" to a Taurus. The Taurus isn't competing against an Accord or Camry. It's lined up directly against the Avalon in price, though it's significantly bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Taurus base price for an SE starts at $25,170, and I believe it goes up to $38k+ for a SHO. That's looking like "upscale" territory for me! And as I stated before, a Ford engineer I know that's VERY close to the small car programs confirmed reports I've seen online that the Focus is moving upscale (within reason), and the Fiesta will take over the bottom rung. Some facts: According to the National Automobile Dealers Association, the average price of a new car sold in the United States is $28,400. That’s why it’s important to know how to make a smart deal. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut11.shtm And lets not forget that the Taurus is a FULL SIZED car....I think thats the biggest problem that Ford is going to have marketing it...it has to establish it as a Full-sized car, not a car that compete with the Camry, which the Fusion does quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) Taurus base price for an SE starts at $25,170, and I believe it goes up to $38k+ for a SHO. That's looking like "upscale" territory for me! And as I stated before, a Ford engineer I know that's VERY close to the small car programs confirmed reports I've seen online that the Focus is moving upscale (within reason), and the Fiesta will take over the bottom rung. -Ovaltine UK Fiesta base price is $17,130, and a top of the range Fiesta is $24,890. Why does Ford UK need so many Fiesta models you can buy 37 different Fiesta models, Honda Fit (Jazz in the UK) keeps things simple and offers just 5 in the Fit range in the UK. It will be interesting to see if folk still want to buy Kia & Hyundai cars now C4C programs are winding down and the credit crunch economy picks-up. But folk are very bitter in the UK towards the British Government & Banks. Brown imposed a massive tax on pension funds the raked in £100's billions to keep UK PLC afloat whilst government pensions/pay have stayed gold plated, bomb proof all paid for buy the British Taxpayer A lot of folk are now waking up to the fact their pensions are worthless, a lot of these same folk were ripped off & misled endownment mortgages by banks, have lost their job houses whilst banks have been bailed out with £££ billions of taxpayers money. Folk seem to be rebelling with a new frugal sub-culture We seem to have had a massive change in culture in the UK from spend, spend to frugal save save. It seems being frugal is the new UK kool, most folk l know seem to be paying off reducing debt - they are paying off the mortgage, credit card debt or shifting on to one with lower interest rates. Some folk use to go to church on a Sundays now 10,000's in my area prefer to attend car boot sales looking for bargains, where you can buy just about anything second hand for next to nothing, with CD's & DVD Video's, printers PC's etc that get sold for a fraction of price you pay on eBay, and you escape 17.5% VAT tax on new goods. This new frugal culture is a huge problem, maybe thats why Kia & Hyundai are doing so well in a frugal new world rebelling against self serving governments, bank bailouts whilst everybody else can join the dole queue as banks horde taxpayers bailout money and don't lend. Edited September 22, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Why does Ford UK need so many Fiesta models you can buy 37 different Fiesta models, Honda Fit (Jazz in the UK) keeps things simple and offers just 5 in the Fit range in the UK. When you lead a market, you can afford to offer more personalized configurations, and in many ways you have to. The F-series wouldn't be the best-selling truck if it didn't offer more configurations than its competition. Do you think it would be wise for them to streamline the models offered down to what Toyota offers with the Tundra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) When you lead a market, you can afford to offer more personalized configurations, and in many ways you have to. The F-series wouldn't be the best-selling truck if it didn't offer more configurations than its competition. Do you think it would be wise for them to streamline the models offered down to what Toyota offers with the Tundra? Hyundia i10 was the UK No3 best selling car in August with just 5 models Nick. Why then does the Ford Mondeo, that does not make it on to the UK top 10 best sellers list Mondeo has 92 different models, how can Ford justify this Nick? Even though the UK is the Mondeo's biggest market in the world Ford must have sold somewhere close to a 1,000 Mondeo's with RHD that is an anomaly in Europe, why 92 RHD models for the Mondeo in UK when it is not selling well Nick? Edited September 22, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Why then does the Ford Mondeo, that does not make it on to the UK top 10 best sellers list Mondeo has 92 different models, how can Ford justify this Nick? 1. Where the hell are you coming up with these numbers of models? 2. Why the hell are you talking about the Mondeo again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) 1. Where the hell are you coming up with these numbers of models? 2. Why the hell are you talking about the Mondeo again? UK Top 10 cars August 2009... Ford are No1 1. Focus 4,366 2. Fiesta 2,968 3. HyundaI i10 2,431 4. Magna Corsa 2,031 5. VW Golf 1,832 6. Peugeot 207 1,558 7. BMW 3 Series. 1,482 8. Magna Astra 1,355 9. Magna Insignia 1,334 10. Toyota Yaris 1,331 LINK What Car magazine is the first port of call if you want to buy a new car in the UK Nick. Hyundai i-10 UK's No3 best selling car in August 2009 - 4 Models LINK Ford Mondeo didnot make it into UK top 10 in August. UK is the Mondeo's biggest market in the world, Ford must have sold somewhere around 1,000 in August it might have been a lot less. RHD is anonmaly in Europe why so many Mondeo models Nick? - 92 Models Mondeo Estate (Stationwagon) 39 Models LINK Mondeo Saloon (Sedan) 14 Models LINK Mondeo (Hatchback) 39 Models LINK Edited September 22, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I don't have anyone on my Ignore list (mainly because I like to read all the posts in a thread) but I am sorely tempted right now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) UK Top 10 cars August 2009... Ford are No1 1. Focus 4,366 2. Fiesta 2,968 3. HyundaI i10 2,431 4. Magna Corsa 2,031 5. VW Golf 1,832 6. Peugeot 207 1,558 7. BMW 3 Series. 1,482 8. Magna Astra 1,355 9. Magna Insignia 1,334 10. Toyota Yaris 1,331 LINK What Car magazine is the first port of call if you want to buy a new car in the UK Nick. Hyundai i-10 UK's No3 best selling car in August 2009 - 4 Models LINK Ford Mondeo didnot make it into UK top 10 in August. - 92 Models Mondeo Estate (Stationwagon) 39 Models LINK Mondeo Saloon (Sedan) 14 Models LINK Mondeo (Hatchback) 39 Models LINK There are 20+ Golf variants. There are 70+ Corsa variants. There are 200+ 207 variants. There are 120+ 3-series variants. There are 120+ Astra variants. What the heck is your point, FJ, other than to rehash the Mondeo....again? Seems the Hyundai is the EXCEPTION, not the rule. The Mondeo has far fewer configurations than many other vehicles in your Top 10 list, so lay off it for awhile. Edited September 22, 2009 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) There are 20+ Golf variants.There are 70+ Corsa variants. There are 200+ 207 variants. There are 120+ 3-series variants. There are 120+ Astra variants. These numbers are made up lies by Nick. Why does Ford need to go to produce 92 RHD (RHD is an anomaly in Europe) variants of the Mondeo for the UK market which is the Mondeo's biggest market in the world, expense to Ford must be massive for just for somewhere around 1,000 Mondeo sales in August. Edited September 22, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 When you lead a market, you can afford to offer more personalized configurations, and in many ways you have to. The F-series wouldn't be the best-selling truck if it didn't offer more configurations than its competition. Do you think it would be wise for them to streamline the models offered down to what Toyota offers with the Tundra? Honda Fit (Jazz UK) 5 models Hyundai i10 4 models we have a trend developing here Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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