NEW CONTRACT

[TheEagle]

Yeah they said that in the 07' agreement, and the modification. Where is the body shop? Hey how about the modifications get voted down, and we resume these talks after a strike authority vote during the regularly scheduled negotiations in 2011. Ford had their chance, they lead the negotiations for the concessionary modification.

 

After rereading your post I realized if our plants have no product, how effective will the strike be then? "Well if you don't give me a product, I refuse to work"! That is a real strong argument LOL!

 

 

Are you so sure your plant will make it to 2011? That is what concerns me...but hey if your not concerned for your plant neither am I.

[TheEagle]

You still have not answered any of my questions!

 

I'll make it easy on you, forget about the other questions, show me where in the cba it says you can strike over product commitments.

 

You talk a bunch of crap. Have you read your contract?

 

Try reading art. 5 -strikes, stoppages and lockouts.

That will lead you to art.7 sec. 23 (special procedures - production standard, job security and outside contracting, health and safety and new job rate grievances).

That will lead you to art. 4 sec. 4a (production standards), or art. 4 sec. 8 (job security and outside contracting), or art. 10 sec 4 (heath and safety).

 

You will not find any language to back you ignorance up there.

 

So what are the only three things you can strike over? (since your too lazy to read your contract ask your buddy when you have breakfast)

 

Are you not curious as to why product commitment have not been fulfilled, or why the company is eager to trade these for concessions ?

 

Prove me wrong!

 

You do not understand your own contract, which most workers don't. You make our union weak.

 

I tried to tell you, but you would not listen. You continued to spout off how your buddy did you a favor.

 

This is exactly how we got were we are today. Too lazy to learn your own contract.

 

If you have the balls to do that then you can answer the other questions, then you can apologize, then you can learn your contract and try to do something besides help the company hide the weenie in my brothers and sisters.

 

This is the only way out.

 

You are the reason these things get passed. Too many people fought for what we have for you to piss it away on a promise that you cannot force the company to keep.

 

If by chance you do respond and prove me wrong I will apoligize to you.

Does that sound fair?

 

In solidarity

-Donkey

 

 

Domkey,

 

If I pull my johnson out of my pants will you kiss it? Thats sound really fair to me.

 

You can put all the fancy articles up you want...you have proved nothing but that your an ass.

 

I am not sure I even understand your point. I read the contract, but if your telling me you have inside knowledge hen enlighten us!!

 

You have done nothing to help on this site...All you do is say vote NO and fuck the UAW...well buddy fuck you.

In Solidarity,

Blow me

[TheEagle]

Domkey,

 

If I pull my johnson out of my pants will you kiss it? Thats sound really fair to me.

 

You can put all the fancy articles up you want...you have proved nothing but that your an ass.

 

I am not sure I even understand your point. I read the contract, but if your telling me you have inside knowledge hen enlighten us!!

 

You have done nothing to help on this site...All you do is say vote NO and fuck the UAW...well buddy fuck you.

In Solidarity,

Blow me

 

 

I am going to eat some brkfst, you eat a dick!

[Captain723]

Lol appeared to me that everyone on the site did that to you, perception is a bitch isn't it.

 

 

 

Almost: hourly or salaried?

 

Because honestly regardless whatever you supposedly are you are mixed up, you call people here brother, but you scream salaried mindset. Are you really Captian? just throwing that out there.

 

You have only claimed to be an investor from anything I have seen, dumping money into the the leader in the D3 does not qualify you as an employee.

Dude.....don't associate me with this fk!

He does sound like some salaried I know....I think his real name is Paul K....just a guess.

[wixom22]

Thank you for answersing the questions Eagle. Your response speaks volumes for your positions.

[SOULJABOY]

Domkey,

 

If I pull my johnson out of my pants will you kiss it? Thats sound really fair to me.

 

You can put all the fancy articles up you want...you have proved nothing but that your an ass.

 

I am not sure I even understand your point. I read the contract, but if your telling me you have inside knowledge hen enlighten us!!

 

You have done nothing to help on this site...All you do is say vote NO and fuck the UAW...well buddy fuck you.

In Solidarity,

Blow me

 

Wow finally some emotion. Look Ford has made more promises to us in the last few years only to find out later that these were no more than false hopes. I shall vote NO in this next contract sandbag prick up our ass nutsack in the mouth bullshit crap that is being said now. HOW CAN REALLY THINK BY GIVING UP YOUR RIGHT TO STRIKE IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. All these concession they want will in no way help Ford come out of debt any faster. If we give up the right to strike we will get screwed in 2011 and if you think any different then I just can't help you. By the way, how much of a bonus does it say the big dogs will get this time if it passes.

[Spring]

Are you so sure your plant will make it to 2011? That is what concerns me...but hey if your not concerned for your plant neither am I.

 

 

Now we're seeing what's going to happen! Now the threats will begin that if we don't pass it that our plant will close or we won't get a new product! We've been promised a new product for how long and how many times? And they've yet to deliver! So excuse me if I find the threat a little hollow at this point because nothing has been given to us as of yet so nothing can be taken away, can it?! And I reiterate, "I'M FINE WHERE I'M AT!" (quote from A. Mulally)

[jm2607]

Are you so sure your plant will make it to 2011? That is what concerns me...but hey if your not concerned for your plant neither am I.

Oh c'mom, if you think people can't see through you and your agenda (and scare tactics) you don't give us enough credit.

[long donkey]

Domkey,

 

If I pull my johnson out of my pants will you kiss it? Thats sound really fair to me.

 

You can put all the fancy articles up you want...you have proved nothing but that your an ass.

 

I am not sure I even understand your point. I read the contract, but if your telling me you have inside knowledge hen enlighten us!!

 

You have done nothing to help on this site...All you do is say vote NO and fuck the UAW...well buddy fuck you.

In Solidarity,

Blow me

 

I have never said f--- the uaw nor did I say vote no.

 

They are not fancy articles, they are our contract!

 

You said "We still have the right to strike if the do not give us the products to keep our plants open!!"

 

You do not have that right contractually, but instead of showing us the language you want me to kiss your penis?

 

Wow, I guess you showed me and everybody else how much you know and who is an a-- !

 

I gave you contractual facts. What argument did you give except some immature cut-down?

 

I never said I had inside knowledge, that was you.

 

Where have you helped except to claim we have a contractual right to strike that we do not.

 

I also wonder If you would tell me to kiss your penis or f-me if you were not hiding behind a computer screen.

[cecilmeyer]

1...yes

2....NO

3.NO

4.NO, arbitrtation on wages and benifits only! You think we are going to get a raise if GM and Chrysler don't?

 

Thats what I am saying liquid, I agree with you if that were the case, but from what I was told it is NOT.

 

and by the way I enjoy your posts.

So you have no problem screwing new hires again?Let me guess.You are one of the ones that voted for the concessions last time correct?And when the second tier people outnumber us full scale workers how do you think they are going to vote when it comes to our wages?

[cecilmeyer]

Good questions, but wrong answers.

 

1)Has any good come from the last two agreements? Really? You think nothing good came from them? IUAW fought to keep the Companmy running. VEBA has been HUGE in keeping the doors open to almost every plant. What is keeping Ford in buisiness & away from the bailout? These changes saved the Company BILLIONS. Just think about the billions lost & how much worse it would be without the acounting treatment the Company was able to take. It is hard to understand so most people don't really think about it, but all the Negotiators really came through with a landmark agreement that saved a lot for everyone.

 

2) Is Ford at a disadvantage to the competition? YES. GM & Chrysler don't have loans due to repay like Ford does. Government & bankruptcy erased all of theirs just like that. And don't forget, Ford helped pay for them to come out of bankruptcy. Think of all the mom & pops, workers comp cases & people all over the company that were screwed when GM & Chrysler bailed on all their obligations. These guys are the worst of integrity. Ford kept their promises to suppliers, banks, employees (including over a billion of investment in the US - don't forget). and still has a lot of $$ to pay., Maybe more than we are going to make off of our great products.

 

3) Is the Company unprofitable? YES. ?? Do you think otherwise?

 

4) Have managers taken concessions equal to the average UAW member? YES. Have you ever talked to a salaried employee? There were no buyouts. They were fired with no choice, no advance notice. The # of salaried employees was reduced the same amount as hourly, but much less costly & barely a parachute. You are giving the UAW NO credit for the safety they have negotiated for us to keep our safety net & reduce numbers in a humane way. Salaried has had no pay increases over the last few years, matching hourly. Benefits are reduced more severely than UAW workers. Pensions are gone for new hires years ago. Retiree healthcare? Dental? Vision? fuhgeddaboutit

 

Let's get all the details before getting too worried. Remember the UAW has done well over the years negotiating tough in good times. We need to focus on this AFTER the company gets through the tough times and is making money -- which is not yet, but maybe 2011. Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot before then. ANd get all the details before making a decision

You are nothing but a company union stooge.You are on here trying to convince us of your bullshit.Giving the uaw credit for what?Kissing corporate america's ass?Selling ALL of the workers out?While,they still make over a $100,000 a year to start?You need to focus why it is you are on here trying to sell us this corporate bullshit.Did you forget over at gm all of their management got all of their pay reductions back?What about Fords low interest loans for fuel efficient cars that gm and chrysler cannot get get?What about fords new plants in china and eastern europe,the fusion hybrid?Let ford declare bankruptcy that way they will not be able to cry how its just not fair they cannot compete.Again let me say we workers are tired of your type trying to convince us of the company lies.Please go over to the salaried forum and kiss their asses over there.

[soupy]

hey TheEagle, Have you heard anything about more buyouts for Ford workers?

 

The last consession agreement it was a 20,000/20,000new-car, 40,000/20,000new-car buyout.

This time sounds like a 1,000 bonous in March. Maybe another round of buyouts for new contract in 2011.

If not we'll strike..................or maybe not.

[cecilmeyer]

i WISH i COULD ANSWER YOU BUT i JUST HAD A CONVERSATION WITH A NEGOTIATOR LAST NIGHT AS HE WAS LEAVING NEGOTIATIONS AND GAVE ME SOME SCOOP, I DONT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. HE DID NOT CALL ME BACK YET.

 

I JUST HOPE HE IS NOT PISSED AT ME FOR PUTTING IT ON BLUEOVAL..

You hope he is not pissed for what?Not letting the people he is supposed to be working for whats going on behind our backs?Those lousy no good bastards are selling us out and you are afraid you might offend him?WAKE UP the uaw is a totally corrupt and a company controlled union.Its a joke and a shell of its former self.They should be afraid of you not the other way around!

Edited October 10, 2009 by cecilmeyer

[Furious1Auto]

Are you so sure your plant will make it to 2011? That is what concerns me...but hey if your not concerned for your plant neither am I.

 

deja vu, just like in 07' a threat to close one week before the ratification vote, followed by a new product commitment if we ratify the contract. Your tactics are lame, and your motives obvious. :slap:

[cecilmeyer]

tHATS FINE IF YOU VOTE no, i JUST THOUGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOUR VOTING AGAINST.

 

I am not advocating anything till I read it. My mommy who got me my job taugh me not to be an ignorant hillbilly!

 

I said 6 hours of sleep in 4 days..what night shift do you work on?

 

I am as angry as anyone on here, I just want to make the RIGHT decision.

Did you make the right decision the last time when you voted yes?Not a real quick learner are you?

[Furious1Auto]

Are you so sure your plant will make it to 2011? That is what concerns me...but hey if your not concerned for your plant neither am I.

 

deja vu, just like in 07' a threat to close one week before the ratification vote, followed by a new product commitment if we ratify the contract. Your tactics are lame, and your motives obvious. :slap:

[soupy]

?Let ford declare bankruptcy that way they will not be able to cry how its just not fair they cannot compete.

 

Yea right. If Ford went bankrupt that would solve all our problems? Now I'm not saying voting 'no' on these concessions will bankrupt Ford, doubt it would, but keep it real!

[cecilmeyer]

again arbitration works two ways. You can't increase it unles both parties agree and you can't decrease wages and benifits unless both parties agree. If both parties agree, they can do whatever. So It is not even absolute we won't get a raise in 2011, because the auto companies like to give raises before benifits anyway.

 

Arbitration is not a huge deal at this point in time the way I see it. As long as the UAW has the right to strike over serious issues like outsourcing and health and safety, I'm ok with that for the time being.

 

GM and Chrysler don't have that! They have NO STRIKE CLAUSE! not on anything from what I am reading!

 

It is still a better deal than GM and Chrysler by a large margin!!!

 

I am still not going to say yes yet because I want to hear it first hand before I jump off that cliff.

Unless both parties agree?And just what position would the uaw have?They have agreed to everything the big 3 have wanted,why stop now?As I have said before you are a company/union stooge please spare us workers your corporate america dribble.

[soupy]

concessions

Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News

The United Auto Workers has summoned local union leaders to Detroit on Tuesday to discuss calls by Ford Motor Co. to match recent concessions the UAW gave to its cross-town rivals.

 

A UAW source said the union's national leadership is expected to ask for permission to begin formal negotiations with the Dearborn automaker on the proposed contract changes, which include a freeze on entry level wages, fewer job classifications for skilled trades workers and a "no strike" pledge.

 

The two sides have been talking informally for several weeks

 

 

This is all I could find in the Detroit News or FreePress. Sounds like bad news for Trades.

[cecilmeyer]

Yea right. If Ford went bankrupt that would solve all our problems? Now I'm not saying voting 'no' on these concessions will bankrupt Ford, doubt it would, but keep it real!

Is it not what ford is crying about?That they cannot compete with gm and chrysler?Declare bankruptcy then they will have nothing to beat us over the head with correct?What did the uaw tell us at ford?That it was best that we go first so WE could set the pattern?Well I guess that just did not pan out like the uaw said did it?Now they are back wanting the exact same thing gm and chrysler got are they not?When are you going to wake up from your corporate america trance?

[soupy]

Is it not what ford is crying about?That they cannot compete with gm and chrysler?Declare bankruptcy ?When are you going to wake up from your corporate america trance?

 

I'm not saying vote yes or no. I'm saying bankruptcy doesn't benefit me or you.

Is Ford saying they will declare bankruptcy this time?

If Ford went bankrupt, would there even be this thread 'Replying to NEW CONTRACT'?

[fordguy61mi]

If we give up our right to strike over wages and benefits, we'll be screwed in the 2011 negotiations. They'll cut our pay AND our benefits and use the "parity with the foreign companies" line as the reason. That's what they're planning on right now by wanting this concession. If any of you can't see this then you're blind. Screw the foreign companies! I don't care what they do, they're not us! VOTE NO on more concessions!

[DeezNutz]

Obviously we have yet to see what this new agreement actually holds. After reading the previous posts I'll share what my thoughts are, some of which have already been made.

 

1. Are there any NEW new product commitments? I already have a contract, and a modification to that contract, which promises me a new product and a new body shop. Why would I give up anything for something I'm already supposed to be getting?!?

 

2. With regards to arbitration, and I'll not claim to know anything about this... If the IUAW negotiation team brings a wage concession (just an example) to the membership how do you believe an arbitrator would find? If the IUAW and Ford feel it's what we need, it's what we're going to get! How much do you trust the IUAW to listen to the membership? If they actually listened to us we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we?!? The point being that if the two parties at that table agree on something, regardless of what the membership wants, that's what we're going to get. An arbitrator has nothing to arbitrate if those two parties agree.

 

3. Giving up the right to strike is completely outrageous. Make no mistake, THE RIGHT TO STRIKE IS THE ONLY TOOL THE UAW HAS in a negotiation.

 

Let's assume for a moment that we do give up the right to strike. Does that mean I won't have to pay the portion of my union dues that go into the strike fund? The strike fund would be unnecessary wouldn't it?

[SOULJABOY]

In the modification that was "passed" this year, let us see what they took away from us.

 

1. The hoilday after easter.

 

2. They took away our COLA.

 

3. They took away the Christmas bonus until 2001 contract.

 

4. They took away our performance bonus that we would have gotten this month.

 

5. They took away our choice to take pay in leiu of Vaction/Personal time.

 

6. In our Sister plant across town they used a loophole to layoff several people even after they agreed to keep them there until this November.

 

7. They cut our sub-pay from contract until contract to 26-52 weeks based on how long you are employeed.

 

Now, they want to come back here and ask for more? More what? Blood? I voted no the last time I will vote no this time. It might be a done now but that still doesn't stop me from voting NO.

 

By putting skilled trades on the line with production workers how is that going to help Ford gain a competitaive edge when they are letting them keep their same wages? Now they want to give us the membership a $1000.00 bonus. How is that going to give them an edge? By hiring new hires in at a lower wages for five years, how is that going to help them out when they are not hiring?

 

There is only way that Ford can compete with GM and Chrysler and that is to get the NO STRIKE CLAUSE. Ford is makeing profits now, they have for the last two quarters. They will this quarter as well. Their stock is up, they have gained market shares. All of this can help bring their debt down if they stay on top of what they are doing. Do not go back and start doing the stupid shit they have done in the past.

 

Now they are promising plants more work in the form of products and or changes. I say this is just another lie to us the workers to try to get this to pass. They may as well be planning new products, yet they do not want to tell us nothing until it is over. Our Sister plant has been promised a new product for over two years now and they still have no clue as to what they are getting. When they ask all they get is, we can't tell you but you are getting a new product.

[DTP Inmate]

I dont care what the contract is. A loss is a loss, and we have been taking too much of that. It is time the members take a stand, vote no and let them know that we are serious. Let them know that we had enough.