Skilled1 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Please do not believe the lies of this forum There are many lies about this agreement and miss representation of the true language on this site. Our futures depend on this agreement. Real job security is in UAW/ USA investments. I took these BOF posts to my leadership and got the truth. This is nothing short of undermining our great union and sabotaging the very institution that looks out for our best interest. Get educated. Ask questions from a real UAW Chairman or President. Not from the wanna be Reps on this site. Would you get tax advice, legal advice, medical advice or any other advice from a website? Neither would I………… Educate yourself and you will see the true existence of the UAW is protecting the members Good luck vote yes… Our jobs and plants depend on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbabbitt Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) Please do not believe the lies of this forum There are many lies about this agreement and miss representation of the true language on this site. Our futures depend on this agreement. Real job security is in UAW/ USA investments. I took these BOF posts to my leadership and got the truth. This is nothing short of undermining our great union and sabotaging the very institution that looks out for our best interest. Get educated. Ask questions from a real UAW Chairman or President. Not from the wanna be Reps on this site. Would you get tax advice, legal advice, medical advice or any other advice from a website? Neither would I………… Educate yourself and you will see the true existence of the UAW is protecting the members Good luck vote yes… your not right Our jobs and plants depend on it Edited October 16, 2009 by mbabbitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaw007 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Ok, I take it you are a skilled tradesman. I did ask my chairman and president this question. What are skilled trade work teams? What trades will be involved with the teams? How will layoffs work with work teams? How will overtime be allocated? Unfortunatly they didnt have the answers. The skilled trades part of the contract is very vaque. Maybe you or your chairman have some answers. I would like to vote yes but not knowing the details i am very reluctant.quote name='Skilled1' date='Oct 15 2009, 07:41 PM' post='558132'] Please do not believe the lies of this forum There are many lies about this agreement and miss representation of the true language on this site. Our futures depend on this agreement. Real job security is in UAW/ USA investments. I took these BOF posts to my leadership and got the truth. This is nothing short of undermining our great union and sabotaging the very institution that looks out for our best interest. Get educated. Ask questions from a real UAW Chairman or President. Not from the wanna be Reps on this site. Would you get tax advice, legal advice, medical advice or any other advice from a website? Neither would I………… Educate yourself and you will see the true existence of the UAW is protecting the members Good luck vote yes… Our jobs and plants depend on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbabbitt Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 you are not right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherAutoWorker Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 FROM ANOTHER POST: QUOTE (walktall @ Oct 15 2009, 09:36 AM) There is something that was brought up in the National Ford meetings that no one has posted on. Gary W. told us that the arbitration on wages would not be normal arbitration. It would be what is called baseball arbitration. And this is very important. And i will try to explain it. In normal arbitration if the UAW says we want a 5% raise and Ford says we want to cut you 50% the arbitatrator can decide to give you 2% or cut you 10 percent or anywhere he sees fit. But in baseball arbitration it is either/or if it makes it to arbitration you either get the 5% or the 50%loss. But, there is more to this. According to a co-worker who also has a law degree. If UAW askes for a raise at all Ford can force that into arbitration and also include their counter offer of a reduction. We all know the arbitrator isn't going to give us a raise, so we end up losing pay. All of us have wondered why this arbitration letter feels wrong. And that is why. The UAW can in the next negotiations ask for a small raise and in doing so cause us to lose wages. But, this gives them an out, they can claim it wasn't their fault the arbitraitor did it. Ford gets what they want the UAW gets out of the hot seat. SO ASK THIS QUESTION OF THOSE THAT WANT TO SELL YOU THIS CONTRACT. If they know we see what they are doing it makes it harder for them to do. Ask WHY DID WE AGREE TO BASEBALL ARBITRATION? We all felt a stink about that letter, cause none of us thought we would get a raise anyway. This is a trigger that will put us at the same wage rates as GM Chrysler without us seeing it coming. For everyone that thought they smelled a RAT, your RAT has been found. p.s. dont try to google baseball arbitration, you get everything in the world but an explanation. THANK YOU for bringing this to our attenttion! I was going to vote NO before knowing this but I just cannot understand how or WHY anyone in this membership would vote yes after learning this... Not all the membership reads this forum so please take a moment to tell your friends and co workers what you have learned about this baseball arbitration clause. JUST the possibility that this is true is enough to make me question the idiots pushing to pass this thing. REMEMBER WHY MULLALY WAS HIRED IN THE FIRST PLACE! To bust this union. He was sucessful before, he's smart enough to do it again. DO NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN! VOTE NO! How many of us feel like this vote has a predetermined and convenient 49/51% outcome? Nevertheless VOTE NO! Protect yourself! Protect your right to protect yourself with the choice to strike IF needecd! Tell everyone you know about this "baseball" arbitration practice and ask them to vote no also. This is some ugly underhanded union busting shit that will be proudly placed on Mulally resume as a job well done ~ another union busted. Gettlefinger should be ashamed of himself. How many of us can remember learning when Mulally got onboard that he was considered the "Master Union Buster" brought in to do what Bill Ford couldnt do? Just ask the membership of Boeing. Well, here it is, kids... right up side our heads with a vengence. We have no choice but to PROTECT ourselves and not fall for the bullshit some people are posting on here that clearly backs the company and company's propaganda and scare tactics. Even if it means we must protect ourself from the iUAW. (Ugh, what a sad sad day to have to say that...) Gettlefinger should be impeached for this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilled1 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 FROM ANOTHER POST:QUOTE (walktall @ Oct 15 2009, 09:36 AM) There is something that was brought up in the National Ford meetings that no one has posted on. Gary W. told us that the arbitration on wages would not be normal arbitration. It would be what is called baseball arbitration. And this is very important. And i will try to explain it. In normal arbitration if the UAW says we want a 5% raise and Ford says we want to cut you 50% the arbitatrator can decide to give you 2% or cut you 10 percent or anywhere he sees fit. But in baseball arbitration it is either/or if it makes it to arbitration you either get the 5% or the 50%loss. But, there is more to this. According to a co-worker who also has a law degree. If UAW askes for a raise at all Ford can force that into arbitration and also include their counter offer of a reduction. We all know the arbitrator isn't going to give us a raise, so we end up losing pay. All of us have wondered why this arbitration letter feels wrong. And that is why. The UAW can in the next negotiations ask for a small raise and in doing so cause us to lose wages. But, this gives them an out, they can claim it wasn't their fault the arbitraitor did it. Ford gets what they want the UAW gets out of the hot seat. SO ASK THIS QUESTION OF THOSE THAT WANT TO SELL YOU THIS CONTRACT. If they know we see what they are doing it makes it harder for them to do. Ask WHY DID WE AGREE TO BASEBALL ARBITRATION? We all felt a stink about that letter, cause none of us thought we would get a raise anyway. This is a trigger that will put us at the same wage rates as GM Chrysler without us seeing it coming. For everyone that thought they smelled a RAT, your RAT has been found. p.s. dont try to google baseball arbitration, you get everything in the world but an explanation. THANK YOU for bringing this to our attenttion! I was going to vote NO before knowing this but I just cannot understand how or WHY anyone in this membership would vote yes after learning this... Not all the membership reads this forum so please take a moment to tell your friends and co workers what you have learned about this baseball arbitration clause. JUST the possibility that this is true is enough to make me question the idiots pushing to pass this thing. REMEMBER WHY MULLALY WAS HIRED IN THE FIRST PLACE! To bust this union. He was sucessful before, he's smart enough to do it again. DO NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN! VOTE NO! How many of us feel like this vote has a predetermined and convenient 49/51% outcome? Nevertheless VOTE NO! Protect yourself! Protect your right to protect yourself with the choice to strike IF needecd! Tell everyone you know about this "baseball" arbitration practice and ask them to vote no also. This is some ugly underhanded union busting shit that will be proudly placed on Mulally resume as a job well done ~ another union busted. Gettlefinger should be ashamed of himself. How many of us can remember learning when Mulally got onboard that he was considered the "Master Union Buster" brought in to do what Bill Ford couldnt do? Just ask the membership of Boeing. Well, here it is, kids... right up side our heads with a vengence. We have no choice but to PROTECT ourselves and not fall for the bullshit some people are posting on here that clearly backs the company and company's propaganda and scare tactics. Even if it means we must protect ourself from the iUAW. (Ugh, what a sad sad day to have to say that...) This is exactly my point. You are rambling on and miss representing yourself as someone who thinks he/she knows what you are talking about. The membership needs real info not this rhetoric from a shit house lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Please do not believe the lies of this forum There are many lies about this agreement and miss representation of the true language on this site. Our futures depend on this agreement. Real job security is in UAW/ USA investments. I took these BOF posts to my leadership and got the truth. This is nothing short of undermining our great union and sabotaging the very institution that looks out for our best interest. Get educated. Ask questions from a real UAW Chairman or President. Not from the wanna be Reps on this site. Would you get tax advice, legal advice, medical advice or any other advice from a website? Neither would I………… Educate yourself and you will see the true existence of the UAW is protecting the members Good luck vote yes… Our jobs and plants depend on it Skilled1 great for the tradesmen that will get to work on the line with their trade pay. But please get a clue about the product commitment, there is nothing new here except for ACH plants that Ford Can Not Sell because no one will buy them . There is only hope that if they actually do sell the plants that they will get to keep them UAW workers, but nothing is guaranteed once these places are sold if they ever are. All the other product commitments where on our original 2007 contract .... don't believe me check for yourself , please compare the October 2009 modification commitments with the 2007 CBA take careful notice to pages 7U through 12U...those are the unpublished letters of understanding readily available on the net. Skilled I was at the Regional meeting today we had chairmen asking how to sell this to the members especially the skilled pay rate doing production work and the entry level pay freeze part. That was a chairmen, Bob King really tried his hardest not to call this a concessions agreement, they are actually proud of this. Bob spoke about breaking pattern bargaining and the need not to put Ford at a disadvantage, one bright lady in red stepped up and made the point that pattern bargaining had already been broken when GM and Chrysler accepted modification that where not the same as ours. She went on further to say we where told earlier this year that if we went first it would be best for not only us but for our brothers and sisters at GM and Chrysler because of pattern bargaining that we wanted to set the trend early this year because if we would have not gone first our modifications would have been worse. Well we all know the final outcome, we went first GM and Chrysler did not follow our pattern and here they are again. I also stood up and asked a few questions concerning the meat of this agreement the product commitments. I made a point to ask first what was the difference on the product allocations in this modification and what what promised back in 2007. I can concede some very slight additions, I went on further to prove how well Ford honors the product allocations and asked about the flex body shops (4 that where in the original 2007 CBA), I got a long drawn out spiel about how it takes time and that MAP, CAP and one other plant has made upgrades to get ready for the new products they are to start soon .....which oh by the way where part of the original 2007 CBA again refer to pages 7U through 12U. I ended my questions with a statement directly from the pages I refer too and reminded the speaker that OHAP, KCAP KTP and Wayne oops i missed this at the meeting LAP was allocated a new flex body shop as well... Out of all those 1 so far with less than 2 years left in the contract. We where also promised today of a product that Bob King could not name that will be sold over seas made at LAP, deja vu like a motherfucker. It was only earlier this year that those modifications had the same great product commitments, I remember specifically Bob saying that the Transit Connect would be going to OHAP, now all we get is a letter saying if the need arrises will we build that vehicle line here in the states. In ending you vote how you want, vote your conscious I find it hard to believe any worker that considers himself a union member could pass a modifications on more empty promises and one thousands bucks, let along giving up a right to strike no matter how insignificant your leadership will make this clause out to be even though i know some will prove me wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherAutoWorker Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) Skilled1 THIS IS AS REAL AS IT GETS! Notice you replied seconds after I posted this... Before calling this a "lie" why dont you do a little homework? Look into what this BASEBALL ARBITRATION MEANS FORALL OF US! Even at the POSSIBILITY of this being true should have your panties in a bunch SKILLED TRADES and you should be checking it out before dismissing it. WHAT IF, just WHAT IF its all true and YOU and YOUR BULLSHIT REASONS voted this scam union busting disgrace of a concession in without doing any real homework? It effect YOU TOO! Look up for yourself what BASEBALL ARBITRATIONmenas for YOU then post back here how badly you want anyone to vote yes... Edited October 16, 2009 by AnotherAutoWorker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1993Stang Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 FROM ANOTHER POST:QUOTE (walktall @ Oct 15 2009, 09:36 AM) There is something that was brought up in the National Ford meetings that no one has posted on. Gary W. told us that the arbitration on wages would not be normal arbitration. It would be what is called baseball arbitration. And this is very important. And i will try to explain it. In normal arbitration if the UAW says we want a 5% raise and Ford says we want to cut you 50% the arbitatrator can decide to give you 2% or cut you 10 percent or anywhere he sees fit. But in baseball arbitration it is either/or if it makes it to arbitration you either get the 5% or the 50%loss. But, there is more to this. According to a co-worker who also has a law degree. If UAW askes for a raise at all Ford can force that into arbitration and also include their counter offer of a reduction. We all know the arbitrator isn't going to give us a raise, so we end up losing pay. All of us have wondered why this arbitration letter feels wrong. And that is why. The UAW can in the next negotiations ask for a small raise and in doing so cause us to lose wages. But, this gives them an out, they can claim it wasn't their fault the arbitraitor did it. Ford gets what they want the UAW gets out of the hot seat. SO ASK THIS QUESTION OF THOSE THAT WANT TO SELL YOU THIS CONTRACT. If they know we see what they are doing it makes it harder for them to do. Ask WHY DID WE AGREE TO BASEBALL ARBITRATION? We all felt a stink about that letter, cause none of us thought we would get a raise anyway. This is a trigger that will put us at the same wage rates as GM Chrysler without us seeing it coming. For everyone that thought they smelled a RAT, your RAT has been found. p.s. dont try to google baseball arbitration, you get everything in the world but an explanation. THANK YOU for bringing this to our attenttion! I was going to vote NO before knowing this but I just cannot understand how or WHY anyone in this membership would vote yes after learning this... Not all the membership reads this forum so please take a moment to tell your friends and co workers what you have learned about this baseball arbitration clause. JUST the possibility that this is true is enough to make me question the idiots pushing to pass this thing. REMEMBER WHY MULLALY WAS HIRED IN THE FIRST PLACE! To bust this union. He was sucessful before, he's smart enough to do it again. DO NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN! VOTE NO! How many of us feel like this vote has a predetermined and convenient 49/51% outcome? Nevertheless VOTE NO! Protect yourself! Protect your right to protect yourself with the choice to strike IF needecd! Tell everyone you know about this "baseball" arbitration practice and ask them to vote no also. This is some ugly underhanded union busting shit that will be proudly placed on Mulally resume as a job well done ~ another union busted. Gettlefinger should be ashamed of himself. How many of us can remember learning when Mulally got onboard that he was considered the "Master Union Buster" brought in to do what Bill Ford couldnt do? Just ask the membership of Boeing. Well, here it is, kids... right up side our heads with a vengence. We have no choice but to PROTECT ourselves and not fall for the bullshit some people are posting on here that clearly backs the company and company's propaganda and scare tactics. Even if it means we must protect ourself from the iUAW. (Ugh, what a sad sad day to have to say that...) Gettlefinger should be impeached for this! Bravo for this post, I said this under another topic. Not long ago, I believe 2003 this happened to Northwest Mechanic that I know personally. His pay went from $28 to $14/per hour, needless to say he moved out of the neighborhood shortly after. We couldn't believe it and he always said it will happen in the autos even with a union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilled1 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Ok, I take it you are a skilled tradesman. I did ask my chairman and president this question. What are skilled trade work teams? What trades will be involved with the teams? How will layoffs work with work teams? How will overtime be allocated? Unfortunatly they didnt have the answers. The skilled trades part of the contract is very vaque. Maybe you or your chairman have some answers. I would like to vote yes but not knowing the details i am very reluctant.quote name='Skilled1' date='Oct 15 2009, 07:41 PM' post='558132']Please do not believe the lies of this forum There are many lies about this agreement and miss representation of the true language on this site. Our futures depend on this agreement. Real job security is in UAW/ USA investments. I took these BOF posts to my leadership and got the truth. This is nothing short of undermining our great union and sabotaging the very institution that looks out for our best interest. Get educated. Ask questions from a real UAW Chairman or President. Not from the wanna be Reps on this site. Would you get tax advice, legal advice, medical advice or any other advice from a website? Neither would I………… Educate yourself and you will see the true existence of the UAW is protecting the members Good luck vote yes… Our jobs and plants depend on it I had the same questions. Here is the answer I got. Additionally I offered to help my location develop this process so it works out to our advantage. The language is vague because of the different ways skilled trades are utilized in each location. The local union leadership will develop the team or teams with oversite from the skilled trades governance which consist of equal uaw and company reps. The teams are made up to keep equipment uptime and flow thru. The locations can have 1 big team or several smaller teams. It is up to the local to develop the definition of the team(s). Layoffs will work the same way as now. It will be determined by the trades affected. Overtime will be done as it is now. Example if you have several teams and a team is working a saturday and the P/PF on the team has high O/T hours than the lower hour P/PF from another team. The low hourP/PF can work into the team with in place of higher hour P/PF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugots Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Why weren't you guys going to tell us BEFORE the mod vote about retirees and their health care with the HMO's? Do you not read the mod highlights where it says we can't strike over issues NOT SUBJECT (everything except wage and benefits is not subject) to binding arbitration until final outcome of wage and benefit binding arbitration is resovled first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaw007 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I had the same questions. Here is the answer I got. Additionally I offered to help my location develop this process so it works out to our advantage. The language is vague because of the different ways skilled trades are utilized in each location. The local union leadership will develop the team or teams with oversite from the skilled trades governance which consist of equal uaw and company reps. The teams are made up to keep equipment uptime and flow thru. The locations can have 1 big team or several smaller teams. It is up to the local to develop the definition of the team(s). Layoffs will work the same way as now. It will be determined by the trades affected. Overtime will be done as it is now. Example if you have several teams and a team is working a saturday and the P/PF on the team has high O/T hours than the lower hour P/PF from another team. The low hourP/PF can work into the team with in place of higher hour P/PF. Thats more info than i got. Although i would hate to be the committeman at the plant who has to decide which trades have lines of demarcation and which ones dont. Losing lines of demarcation i think will be opening up the door for general maintenance. Still alot of thinking to do on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilled1 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) Skilled1 great for the tradesmen that will get to work on the line with their trade pay. But please get a clue about the product commitment, there is nothing new here except for ACH plants that Ford Can Not Sell because no one will buy them . There is only hope that if they actually do sell the plants that they will get to keep them UAW workers, but nothing is guaranteed once these places are sold if they ever are. All the other product commitments where on our original 2007 contract .... don't believe me check for yourself , please compare the October 2009 modification commitments with the 2007 CBA take careful notice to pages 7U through 12U...those are the unpublished letters of understanding readily available on the net. Skilled I was at the Regional meeting today we had chairmen asking how to sell this to the members especially the skilled pay rate doing production work and the entry level pay freeze part. That was a chairmen, Bob King really tried his hardest not to call this a concessions agreement, they are actually proud of this. Bob spoke about breaking pattern bargaining and the need not to put Ford at a disadvantage, one bright lady in red stepped up and made the point that pattern bargaining had already been broken when GM and Chrysler accepted modification that where not the same as ours. She went on further to say we where told earlier this year that if we went first it would be best for not only us but for our brothers and sisters at GM and Chrysler because of pattern bargaining that we wanted to set the trend early this year because if we would have not gone first our modifications would have been worse. Well we all know the final outcome, we went first GM and Chrysler did not follow our pattern and here they are again. I also stood up and asked a few questions concerning the meat of this agreement the product commitments. I made a point to ask first what was the difference on the product allocations in this modification and what what promised back in 2007. I can concede some very slight additions, I went on further to prove how well Ford honors the product allocations and asked about the flex body shops (4 that where in the original 2007 CBA), I got a long drawn out spiel about how it takes time and that MAP, CAP and one other plant has made upgrades to get ready for the new products they are to start soon .....which oh by the way where part of the original 2007 CBA again refer to pages 7U through 12U. I ended my questions with a statement directly from the pages I refer too and reminded the speaker that OHAP, KCAP KTP and Wayne oops i missed this at the meeting LAP was allocated a new flex body shop as well... Out of all those 1 so far with less than 2 years left in the contract. We where also promised today of a product that Bob King could not name that will be sold over seas made at LAP, deja vu like a motherfucker. It was only earlier this year that those modifications had the same great product commitments, I remember specifically Bob saying that the Transit Connect would be going to OHAP, now all we get is a letter saying if the need arrises will we build that vehicle line here in the states. In ending you vote how you want, vote your conscious I find it hard to believe any worker that considers himself a union member could pass a modifications on more empty promises and one thousands bucks, let along giving up a right to strike no matter how insignificant your leadership will make this clause out to be even though i know some will prove me wrong. Spine, I do respect your posts, but there are some parts I do not agree with. I understand your displeasure for the UAW and events that happened to you over the years you stated in a earlier post. You also stated that you are elected UAW rep. I dont understand how you can be a part of a organization and have so much negativity in your posts. Again I am being respectful. Here is my response to your post. Skilled1 great for the tradesmen that will get to work on the line with their trade pay. But please get a clue about the product commitment, there is nothing new here except for ACH plants that Ford Can Not Sell because no one will buy them . There is only hope that if they actually do sell the plants that they will get to keep them UAW workers, but nothing is guaranteed once these places are sold if they ever are. I dont believe the UAW is done fighting to return these plants back to Ford like Rawsonville and Sterling. These plants have still have life and I hope they will return. This agreement breathes so life back to our ACH brothers and sisters All the other product commitments where on our original 2007 contract .... don't believe me check for yourself , please compare the October 2009 modification commitments with the 2007 CBA take careful notice to pages 7U through 12U...those are the unpublished letters of understanding readily available on the net. Skilled I was at the Regional meeting today we had chairmen asking how to sell this to the members especially the skilled pay rate doing production work and the entry level pay freeze part. This is exactly what GM and Chrysler do. Skilled pay for busted back trades. I guess i am biased in this issue. I think it is a good thing. That was a chairmen, Bob King really tried his hardest not to call this a concessions agreement, they are actually proud of this. I would call this a back yard fight over pattern and the UAW came out with the most gains. Bob spoke about breaking pattern bargaining and the need not to put Ford at a disadvantage, one bright lady in red stepped up and made the point that pattern bargaining had already been broken when GM and Chrysler accepted modification that where not the same as ours. I understand that the company complained poor boy and raised pattern issues. If the bargaining team did not get these gains for us I understand they were ready to walk from the table. She went on further to say we where told earlier this year that if we went first it would be best for not only us but for our brothers and sisters at GM and Chrysler because of pattern bargaining that we wanted to set the trend early this year because if we would have not gone first our modifications would have been worse. I agree we (ford) protected GM and Chrysler from much deeper cuts. This was a great strategy from our leaders Well we all know the final outcome, we went first GM and Chrysler did not follow our pattern and here they are again. See above I also stood up and asked a few questions concerning the meat of this agreement the product commitments. I made a point to ask first what was the difference on the product allocations in this modification and what what promised back in 2007. I can concede some very slight additions, I went on further to prove how well Ford honors the product allocations and asked about the flex body shops (4 that where in the original 2007 CBA), I got a long drawn out spiel about how it takes time and that MAP, CAP and one other plant has made upgrades to get ready for the new products they are to start soon .....which oh by the way where part of the original 2007 CBA again refer to pages 7U through 12U. I dont think these were listed as new commitments but as recommitted in the Oct 09 highlights. I ended my questions with a statement directly from the pages I refer too and reminded the speaker that OHAP, KCAP KTP and Wayne oops i missed this at the meeting LAP was allocated a new flex body shop as well... Out of all those 1 so far with less than 2 years left in the contract. I do believe KTP got a new body shop last year and MAP is getting one now. OHAP and KCAP should still get one.We where also promised today of a product that Bob King could not name that will be sold over seas made at LAP, deja vu like a motherfucker. It was only earlier this year that those modifications had the same great product commitments, I remember specifically Bob saying that the Transit Connect would be going to OHAP, now all we get is a letter saying if the need arrises will we build that vehicle line here in the states.OHAP was committed a product and I do trust the UAW. I cant believe that anyone would not trust the very institution that protects us. I dont get the hatred.In ending you vote how you want, vote your conscious I find it hard to believe any worker that considers himself a union member could pass a modifications on more empty promises and one thousands bucks, let along giving up a right to strike no matter how insignificant your leadership will make this clause out to be even though i know some will prove me wrong. Trust your leadership......the only other option is extinction. Good luck Brother..... Again respectfully, Skilled1 Edited October 16, 2009 by Skilled1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDTRANSMAN Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I had the same questions. Here is the answer I got. Additionally I offered to help my location develop this process so it works out to our advantage. The language is vague because of the different ways skilled trades are utilized in each location. The local union leadership will develop the team or teams with oversite from the skilled trades governance which consist of equal uaw and company reps. The teams are made up to keep equipment uptime and flow thru. The locations can have 1 big team or several smaller teams. It is up to the local to develop the definition of the team(s). Layoffs will work the same way as now. It will be determined by the trades affected. Overtime will be done as it is now. Example if you have several teams and a team is working a saturday and the P/PF on the team has high O/T hours than the lower hour P/PF from another team. The low hourP/PF can work into the team with in place of higher hour P/PF. Well now that everyone can do each others jobs because there are no lines of demarcation, who decides the mix of trades on the teams? ILO, who decides what trades are affected? Who stays and who goes? Let some prick protect his relative or buddy and screw everyone else? Keep someone with half my seniority in another trade and lay me off because he is now allowed to do my work? FUCK THAT!!! Im good where Im at. You want a yes vote ya better come up with a better plan that that. Here's an idea: Come up with something and put in in writing. How in the hell do you expect someone to vote on a contract when they have no idea what the hell they are voting on? I got some property to sell ya, I will tell you where and how much I want after you sign the paperwork. The language is vague so you can shove it up everyones ass at a later date when they cant do anything about it. PUT THE PLAN IN WRITING!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Disagreements are fine Skilled you have been more respectful than what I deserve at times, I can freely admit at times I let my emotions take over. And to answer your question, I represent the membership not leadership. That is something a lot more reps need to realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugots Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Use your emotion to fuel your anger. Feel it flow through you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilled1 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Well now that everyone can do each others jobs because there are no lines of demarcation, who decides the mix of trades on the teams? ILO, who decides what trades are affected? Who stays and who goes? Let some prick protect his relative or buddy and screw everyone else? Keep someone with half my seniority in another trade and lay me off because he is now allowed to do my work? FUCK THAT!!! Im good where Im at. You want a yes vote ya better come up with a better plan that that. Here's an idea: Come up with something and put in in writing. How in the hell do you expect someone to vote on a contract when they have no idea what the hell they are voting on? I got some property to sell ya, I will tell you where and how much I want after you sign the paperwork. The language is vague so you can shove it up everyones ass at a later date when they cant do anything about it. PUT THE PLAN IN WRITING!!!! Again get your information from your Skilled Trades Representative or Chairman. Be a part of the development and structure your teams that best suits your location and your trades personal needs. I am supporting my local union to make this the best for us not the company. Also these teams will be lead and jobs will be assigned by the leader of the team. Those sorry ass bosses that used to give our work to contractors will be gone and we will be bidding on and doing all project work no more contractors. Dont fight change make change happen in your favor. Good luck and bye bye contractors..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugots Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 So the day after this passes all the Roncelli will be gone from romeo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDTRANSMAN Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Again get your information from your Skilled Trades Representative or Chairman. Be a part of the development and structure your teams that best suits your location and your trades personal needs. I am supporting my local union to make this the best for us not the company. Also these teams will be lead and jobs will be assigned by the leader of the team. Those sorry ass bosses that used to give our work to contractors will be gone and we will be bidding on and doing all project work no more contractors. Dont fight change make change happen in your favor. Good luck and bye bye contractors..... I did get my information from them. They know as much about the details as you seem to. Zero....... Vote yes figure everything out later bla bla bla You are out of your mind. Support the local to make it better for us? That is exactly what I am doing with a no vote until I see something in writing to change my mind. Your lip service will get nowhere. I cant grieve verbal lies. Please forgive me if I trust NOBODY and leave nothing to chance when it comes to my livelihood. PUT SOMETHING IN WRITING!!!! While your at it, put it in writing that arbitration cant force us into a pay and benefit DECREASE without a right to strike. Dont say it, PUT IT IN WRITING. And NO. Roncelli is going nowhere. Make all the business cases you want they are a permanent fixture. Shit ol Ron and Bob probably plan to push that amalgamate shit with them just like DFM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeme back 2blue Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) Again get your information from your Skilled Trades Representative or Chairman. Be a part of the development and structure your teams that best suits your location and your trades personal needs. I am supporting my local union to make this the best for us not the company. Also these teams will be lead and jobs will be assigned by the leader of the team. Those sorry ass bosses that used to give our work to contractors will be gone and we will be bidding on and doing all project work no more contractors. Dont fight change make change happen in your favor. Good luck and bye bye contractors..... You are a fool if you think this means bye bye contractors! There will be more contractors my friend. Reducing skilled trades #'s and classifications(eliminating lines of demarcation) is a direct step towards general maintenence. The company will eventually argue that we don't have the expertise or the manpower to do project work. Your theory on overtime is shit too. Did you read the line about straight or premium time in regards to lines of demarcation? Those sorry ass bosses will be LTFAO. :shades: Edited October 16, 2009 by takeme back 2blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeme back 2blue Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) Another thing is we eventually will only do minor maintainence. They will have contractors on site or near by to fix major shit. Wait and see. Do me a favor and reread the last paragraph on page #25. Teams will be gone come 2011 and there will be 2 or 3 classifications. Their plan is to eliminate skilled trades my friend. Tell me where is the apprentiship language. What is the outlook on that program? If there is one it will be for electricians. Edited October 16, 2009 by takeme back 2blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganTruck_Mafia Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Please do not believe the lies of this forum There are many lies about this agreement and miss representation of the true language on this site. Our futures depend on this agreement. Real job security is in UAW/ USA investments. I took these BOF posts to my leadership and got the truth. This is nothing short of undermining our great union and sabotaging the very institution that looks out for our best interest. Get educated. Ask questions from a real UAW Chairman or President. Not from the wanna be Reps on this site. Would you get tax advice, legal advice, medical advice or any other advice from a website? Neither would I………… Educate yourself and you will see the true existence of the UAW is protecting the members Good luck vote yes… Our jobs and plants depend on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) FROM ANOTHER POST: QUOTE (walktall @ Oct 15 2009, 09:36 AM) There is something that was brought up in the National Ford meetings that no one has posted on. Gary W. told us that the arbitration on wages would not be normal arbitration. It would be what is called baseball arbitration. And this is very important. And i will try to explain it. In normal arbitration if the UAW says we want a 5% raise and Ford says we want to cut you 50% the arbitatrator can decide to give you 2% or cut you 10 percent or anywhere he sees fit. But in baseball arbitration it is either/or if it makes it to arbitration you either get the 5% or the 50%loss. But, there is more to this. According to a co-worker who also has a law degree. If UAW askes for a raise at all Ford can force that into arbitration and also include their counter offer of a reduction. We all know the arbitrator isn't going to give us a raise, so we end up losing pay. All of us have wondered why this arbitration letter feels wrong. And that is why. The UAW can in the next negotiations ask for a small raise and in doing so cause us to lose wages. But, this gives them an out, they can claim it wasn't their fault the arbitraitor did it. Ford gets what they want the UAW gets out of the hot seat. SO ASK THIS QUESTION OF THOSE THAT WANT TO SELL YOU THIS CONTRACT. If they know we see what they are doing it makes it harder for them to do. Ask WHY DID WE AGREE TO BASEBALL ARBITRATION? We all felt a stink about that letter, cause none of us thought we would get a raise anyway. This is a trigger that will put us at the same wage rates as GM Chrysler without us seeing it coming. For everyone that thought they smelled a RAT, your RAT has been found. p.s. dont try to google baseball arbitration, you get everything in the world but an explanation. This is fact, and I was told the same thing from the BC that was in attendance and asked the I-UAW reps if what they had agreed to was baseball arbitration. This man is son to a well seasoned ex-chairman, and also moonlights as the grand jury foreman in the state of OHIO. He knows the law, and contract law to boot. Skilled1 do you really think that this or any other forum is going to sway anyone's vote? What % of the membership reads this sh-t? Your problem is that the internet made what use to be closed door negotiations into a place were all members can read the language. If the people on the floor are pissed, it is not over anyone's opinion of the language. They are pissed at how they read the language. What a bunch of f-cking sellouts. You guys don't even have the balls to admit the membership knows how to read. Wasn't it Ford that demanded AON testing as a prerequisite to hire? The real b-tch is that the members have to take their time to personally read the language and interpret it to the people they pay to do it for them. You guys are suppose to be smart enough to do it so the members can enjoy their time off with their families. Not spending hours of their personal time doing it to protect their own selves. Pathetic, it is f-cking pathetic! Edited October 16, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btv-863 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Use your emotion to fuel your anger. Feel it flow through you. I believe it was master Yoda who said. “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilled1 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 This is fact, and I was told the same thing from the BC that was in attendance and asked the I-UAW reps if what they had agreed to was baseball arbitration. This man is son to a well seasoned ex-chairman, and also moonlights as the grand jury foreman in the state of OHIO. He knows the law, and contract law to boot. Skilled1 do you really think that this or any other forum is going to sway anyone's vote? What % of the membership reads this sh-t? Your problem is that the internet made what use to be closed door negotiations into a place were all members can read the language. If the people on the floor are pissed, it is not over anyone's opinion of the language. They are pissed at how they read the language. What a bunch of f-cking sellouts. You guys don't even have the balls to admit the membership knows how to read. Wasn't it Ford that demanded AON testing as a prerequisite to hire? The real b-tch is that the members have to take their time to personally read the language and interpret it to the people they pay to do it for them. You guys are suppose to be smart enough to do it so the members can enjoy their time off with their families. Not spending hours of their personal time doing it to protect their own selves. Pathetic, it is f-cking pathetic! Furious, I just know in my heart the UAW looks out for our best interest. Why in the world would our leadership put us at risk? I can not even think of any real reason. I do know that investing in our plants and keeping us competitive which will set us up to be stronger and get our strength back both with the public and as a strikeable threat . Sorry to let you down but I have a differing opinion of this modification. I look at strenght in product and investment which will always protect us and our precious retirees. What do you think would happen to our retirees if we had no product left? What if the UAW did nothing and we slowly die a 10 year death? Sitting and doing nothing is not why I pay union dues..... I know the position we are in is just a sign of the times and good times are ahead of us. Sorry but I thought this forum welcomed different opinions. Just because I am a concerned dues paying member that cares about my future you think I am a Rep? Just a 3rd generation union supporter!!! I walk picket lines, elect canidates that support labor, write my senators, and reps constantly. I am involved support my union and not a fence rider. I think this site is a great tool and there is nothing wrong with objectivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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