snoozer Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 From thestreet.com A new contract deal with the United Auto Workers enabled Ford to reduce costs enough to sell cars profitably in the U.S., just as it did in the rest of the world. Then "we decided together that every vehicle we put out would be best in class," Mulally said. "Ford always saw itself as being competitive, but in today's marketplace you can't just be competitive." What else must you be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 That isn't what it says, but even if that was the case, what would it matter when you strike as long as you still have the right to strike? Because my dear, the length of time they can stall in arbitration! C'mon! The IUAW is a master at stall tactics and since they seem to represent the company more than the rank and file, don't you think they'd show them how to do it? Why should they care about the outcry? They can't be voted out by us, just like we have no say in who goes up there. We have no recourse against them so they can do whatever they like without fear of reprisal. Since this is such a major sticking point with the membership, why don't they go back to the table and bring back something else without this clause? If it's no big deal to the IUAW or the company and we shouldn't concern our pretty little heads with something we couldn't possibly understand, why would they need this so badly? BECAUSE IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYONE REALIZES AND IT'S COMPLETELY ADVERSE TO THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE RANK AND FILE MEMBERSHIP! Let's call a spade a spade, shall we? You and I both know that there's more to this than is being said! This clause is a non-starter so they need to go back and try again....until then, I'm good where I'm at.....right Alan Mullaly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixom22 Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 That isn't what it says, but even if that was the case, what would it matter when you strike as long as you still have the right to strike? What about BINDING arbitration don't you understand ? The word Binding means you agree to accept the arbitrators decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnut69 Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 That isn't what it says, but even if that was the case, what would it matter when you strike as long as you still have the right to strike? wait,what??????what i read does say you cant strike while an issue is in arbitration. that is pretty clear or someone made a big typo.so there we are in contract talks with an issue bogged down in arbitration rendering us unable to strike over anything but it doesnt matter cuz we can just strike later??really??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uawwidow Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Excerpt from Chrysler 09 Agreement on Wages and Benefits This is the html version of the file http://www.xpdnc.com/files/relatednewsandr...ler2009S-02.pdf. Google automatically generates html versions of documents as we crawl the web. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 1 Binding Arbitration - Upon expiration of the 2007 Agreement, the parties willenter into a new National Collective Bargaining Agreement which will continue infull force and effect until September 14, 2015. Unresolved issues remaining atthe end of negotiations on the 2011 renewal of the 2007 Agreement shall beresolved through binding arbitration with wage and benefit improvements to bebased upon Chrysler maintaining an all-in hourly labor cost comparable to itsU.S. competitors, including transplant automotive manufacturers[/b]; Level Employment - All new hire production employees, through theSeptember 14, 2015 expiration of the National Collective Bargaining Agreement,will be hired as Entry Level employees and governed by the terms of the UAW-Chrysler Entry Level Wage and Benefit Agreement M-13;Entry Level Ratio - There shall be no cap on the number of Entry Levelemployees hired through September 14, 2015. Upon the expiration of the 2011Agreement, the cap shall be the lesser of 25% or the Entry Level percentage asof September 14, 2015;Entry Level Wages - AH Entry Level wage formula increases currently providedin the 2007 National Production, Maintenance and Parts Agreement will befrozen for the duration of the 2007 UAW-Chrysler National Agreement.As part of this Agreement, Chrysler and the UAW agree to the following, which areattached as Exhibits:Agreement Between Chrysler LLC andthe UAW dated February 17, 2009Memorandum of Understanding Pay attention to the terms...all in and including transplant automotive manufacturers. UAW/Chrysler Brothers and Sisters did not have a voice. WE DO Edited October 19, 2009 by uawwidow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I bet your daddy or momma got you a job and now you think you are the founder of the fking UAW. Do the rest of us members a favor and keep your trap shut until you have something significant to say. Other wise have a tall glass of STFU! This is reason enough right here to vote no. Gotta bring out the mud ,eh? Real significant reply,smart........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenhawkings Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Wow, that shows how little you know about pattern bargaining. Pattern bargaining allows the company doing the best or the one that has the most to lose to sit at the table and negotiate with the UAW knowing they will not be giving anything that the other 2 company's aren't going to give to make them at a disadvantage. This is a powerful tool and allows us to get more. Today Ford is strong, tomorrow it will most likely be GM. In 2007 GM was in the best position, who would have thought in 2 yrs Ford would be in a better position, but that is the way it goes. We have benefitted from pattern in the last agreement when GM's pensions were over funded, they folded the extra over and got something more for our retirees. In 2007 Ford was in a worse position and said that they could not do it and the UAW said tighten your belts, because if GM did it and you are going to do it! Who do you think is going to be in a better position in 2015? It won't be Ford, not with GM coming out of bankruptcy and eliminating all their debt through bankruptcy. They will be the ones we are patterning off of and Ford will have to follow suit. Pattern Bargaining has done us members great in the past and the UAW will never give that up because it is best for our members. This agreement doesn't say the UAW can't get some of the things we lost back, all it says if the UAW/Ford do not agree on any proposed increases that they could take it to arbitration! Not that they will! Ford don't want someone else in their books! Pattern Bargaining will not go away because all our members have benefitted from it! Asked a seasoned Chairperson what they think about pattern bargaining! ever hear of a paragraph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale143 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 If this passes ,here is what we have to look forward to. From Apr.29, 2009 http://www.canadaka.net/forums/business-f2...you-t82955.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale143 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 We the people of the Ford Motor Company U.A.W membership are the last strong hold for the survival of the U.A.W. It is this vote that will determine the future of all UAW workers,Ford Chrysler etc. and even non union transplants. We the Ford motor company UAW will change the history of American labor for ever should these changes take place. And it will have a major affect on the caw negotiations taking place as we speak. It is OUR VOTE,OUR VOTE! That will determine the way The American auto industry and the uaw-caw do business in the future. This is our Bunker Hill,Midway and Alamo . Battles that changed history.And my friends this is a battle. Think very deeply about this. We have before us the decision to Vote no and save the uaw-caw and pretty much all labor of north America. Or vote yes and watch the auto industry and for some the government slowly eat away at us like a cancer destroying us from the inside out. The perfect battle plan. Do you like were you live?,do you enjoy going on trips when you take your vacation? Do your children sometimes need a helping hand when they cant pay there rent.Do your grand children enjoy the gifts you get them on there birthday or at Christmas? Can you live on your savings and retirement when you cant work anymore? All of this will change in the not so distance future if this passes. With all of what we have done for ford so far and with all of the Obama changes in health care and many other changes in government to come .Ford will be just fine. Vote no and renegotiate a better deal! This is corporate greed at its best.Don't be fooled. Ford is a leader in quality,innovation and is now profitable two quarters in a row in the u.s..Should we be the ones that make ford a leader in union destruction?! I DON'T THINK SO! VOTE NO AND GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS THE UAW MEMBERS THAT SAVED ORGANIZED LABOR AT THE LAST AND HOPEFULLY FINAL BATTLE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 What do you mean "back to the table" they aren't even due to negotiate till 2011!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 If this passes ,here is what we have to look forward to. From Apr.29, 2009 http://www.canadaka.net/forums/business-f2...you-t82955.html ? That stock isn't the UAW's to do with what they please. That stock was given to the UAW retirees health benefits fund....VEBA. If you think that the UAW and the trust is going to hold onto auto stock, you are nuts. That shit will be sold as soon as it makes a profit. this wasn't just handed to the UAW. Again this was in place of cash to fund our retiree health care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 We the people of the Ford Motor Company U.A.W membership are the last strong hold for the survival of the U.A.W. It is this vote that will determine the future of all UAW workers,Ford Chrysler etc. and even non union transplants. We the Ford motor company UAW will change the history of American labor for ever should these changes take place. And it will have a major affect on the caw negotiations taking place as we speak. It is OUR VOTE,OUR VOTE! That will determine the way The American auto industry and the uaw-caw do business in the future. This is our Bunker Hill,Midway and Alamo . Battles that changed history.And my friends this is a battle. Think very deeply about this. We have before us the decision to Vote no and save the uaw-caw and pretty much all labor of north America. Or vote yes and watch the auto industry and for some the government slowly eat away at us like a cancer destroying us from the inside out. The perfect battle plan. Do you like were you live?,do you enjoy going on trips when you take your vacation? Do your children sometimes need a helping hand when they cant pay there rent.Do your grand children enjoy the gifts you get them on there birthday or at Christmas? Can you live on your savings and retirement when you cant work anymore? All of this will change in the not so distance future if this passes. With all of what we have done for ford so far and with all of the Obama changes in health care and many other changes in government to come .Ford will be just fine. Vote no and renegotiate a better deal! This is corporate greed at its best.Don't be fooled. Ford is a leader in quality,innovation and is now profitable two quarters in a row in the u.s..Should we be the ones that make ford a leader in union destruction?! I DON'T THINK SO! VOTE NO AND GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS THE UAW MEMBERS THAT SAVED ORGANIZED LABOR AT THE LAST AND HOPEFULLY FINAL BATTLE! how again will voting No save organizzed labor? Right now what product does OHAP, AAI, Louisville, Rawsonville and Romeo have? Where do the members of Indy get to go if they are closed? What does this agreement give up? I am having a hard time finding it each time I read the modification language! Lets see: Company gets: cap raised on 20% entry level (they would have to find 11k jobs in oder to go above the 20% cap) Skilled trades mechanical teams (UAW negotiated teams in 2007 and it was going to be implemented in 4 plants) Arbitration on all wage and benefit increases (UAW still retain the right to strike over all other issues and the UAW would never strike over wage and benefit increases anyway, the UAW would tie a strike to something other than Wages and benefits as to not seem greedy) UAW Gains: Different product for OHAP Different product for LAP Additional product for Mich Assy Engine in Romeo RDU for strerling Battery pack for Rawsonville skilled wages from those who elected to go back to rpoduction Commitment to keep Mustang past current life cycle plus incremental assy work (concern over mazda pulling out after Ford sold controlling interest) $1000 QUALITY BONUS because we all did out part to turn around quailty, in a time that we lost 40k members, to be better than toyota and honda RETIREE'S WERE NOT TOUCHED IN ANY WAY WITH THIS MODIFICATION! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 UAW Gains:Different product for OHAP What is IT ?? Different product for LAP What is IT ?? Additional product for Mich Assy And IT is ???? Engine in Romeo RDU for strerling Battery pack for Rawsonville skilled wages from those who elected to go back to rpoduction And those forced there with implementation of mechanical groups Commitment to keep Mustang past current life cycle plus incremental assy work (concern over mazda pulling out after Ford sold controlling interest) That not how I read it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 how again will voting No save organizzed labor? Right now what product does OHAP, AAI, Louisville, Rawsonville and Romeo have? Where do the members of Indy get to go if they are closed? What does this agreement give up? I am having a hard time finding it each time I read the modification language! Lets see:Company gets: cap raised on 20% entry level (they would have to find 11k jobs in oder to go above the 20% cap) Skilled trades mechanical teams (UAW negotiated teams in 2007 and it was going to be implemented in 4 plants) Arbitration on all wage and benefit increases (UAW still retain the right to strike over all other issues and the UAW would never strike over wage and benefit increases anyway, the UAW would tie a strike to something other than Wages and benefits as to not seem greedy) UAW Gains: Different product for OHAP Different product for LAP Additional product for Mich Assy Engine in Romeo RDU for strerling Battery pack for Rawsonville skilled wages from those who elected to go back to rpoduction Commitment to keep Mustang past current life cycle plus incremental assy work (concern over mazda pulling out after Ford sold controlling interest) $1000 QUALITY BONUS because we all did out part to turn around quailty, in a time that we lost 40k members, to be better than toyota and honda RETIREE'S WERE NOT TOUCHED IN ANY WAY WITH THIS MODIFICATION! Dammit Captain stop ducking me and respond ! OHAP, LAP, MAP Romeo Engine where allocated new products during the life of the 2007 agreement pages 7 U through 12 U dated 11-2-07. Along with those plants CAP, KCAP where to receive a new product over the life of this contract MTP was to retain Expo and Navigator through the product life-cycle, MTP was to receive a new product as was WAP. There are more supplier and drive train plants that where to receive new product or new flex body shops during the life of the original 2007 contract so far only 1 flex body shop has been placed. Skilled getting their trade wage on the line is 1 plus, but at what cost with further consolidations/future cuts ? Mustang as with Mazda6 where allocated for the product life cycle $1000 suckers money, Quality only counts second to hitting the days numbers, I do not know if you actually work in a plant but this has not changed in any plant I have been in(you may see what plants from my user information). Retirees Can not have the UAW negotiate any type of pension increases in 2011 or risk sending that contract to arbitration....While in arbitration the UAW can not even use safety to strike Ford (read paragraph 2 of page one in the white pages. Again I will ask Captain do you even read the contract pages which we work under or do you simply follow blindly whatever is said to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
228electrician Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 What do you mean "back to the table" they aren't even due to negotiate till 2011!!!!!!!!! EXACTLY!!!!!! I was a yes vote till i started thinking about it and comparing it to other companies in recent history. How many times do we have to go to the table and give a little here, give a little there,,,,, 2011, with no cap on how many second tier workers, can't strike to raise pay and bennies, what will happen if they ask us to take a 10% cut, thats all, nothing else, they got everything else reduced where they want it, what will they ask from us in 2011? They will be sitting pretty good for the 2011 talks with most of the cuts already done and the public behind them and against the uaw, we will lose.... On the other hand, if they start making a ton of money, 2011 talks come and we ask for stuff back and maybe a raise, they go to arbitration and the arbitrator says we already make more than the average us auto worker, so they side with the company, and we are left with this crap till 2015 and unable to strike!!!! Sure there are a couple of non union auto plants that make near us, but the majority does not and the average is what they will look at not just one or two of the 30 plants nationwide. 2015 comes along, and production is booming, hired thousands of second tier workers, may even out number us, get back to the year 2000 amount of workers, contract talks start and the company wants to meet wages half way, give the second tier guys everything including a raise to $25 an hour, but have a part in it that across the board thats the wage for all of us, since we will be out numbered by second tier guys and the second tier guys are getting a big raise, our vote will not matter. This is just an example what removing the cap on second tier employees can do. 2023 is when i want to retire, and i would like to be able to retire from ford!! They have no proof that what we are giving is good for them, and they are not willing to make that effort to research it since the uaw is in a giving mood all they have to do is ask and we roll over, enough is enough!!!! if they can not give some kind of game plan and proof and somekind of outlook of the 2011 talks, forget it, we have to show we are not gonna roll over just cause they ask us to. I smell another american axle deal coming. The UAW needs to show their strengh and flex a muscle by unionizing as many of these transplant auto companies as they can to level the playing field and strenghten the uaw instead of letting it implode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmpp Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I don't understand the reasoning of the UAW. None of them took a step back and formulated in their head, "I wonder what the company is working towards asking for a no strike clause and wanting to uncap 2nd tier workers". Instead they theought, "Hey, more money each month for us". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I don't understand the reasoning of the UAW. None of them took a step back and formulated in their head, "I wonder what the company is working towards asking for a no strike clause and wanting to uncap 2nd tier workers". Instead they theought, "Hey, more money each month for us". They obviously are willing to settle for half the dues since they will be cutting the number of International reps very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipefitter Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 how again will voting No save organizzed labor? Right now what product does OHAP, AAI, Louisville, Rawsonville and Romeo have? Where do the members of Indy get to go if they are closed? What does this agreement give up? I am having a hard time finding it each time I read the modification language! Lets see:Company gets: cap raised on 20% entry level (they would have to find 11k jobs in oder to go above the 20% cap) Skilled trades mechanical teams (UAW negotiated teams in 2007 and it was going to be implemented in 4 plants) Arbitration on all wage and benefit increases (UAW still retain the right to strike over all other issues and the UAW would never strike over wage and benefit increases anyway, the UAW would tie a strike to something other than Wages and benefits as to not seem greedy) UAW Gains: Different product for OHAP Different product for LAP Additional product for Mich Assy Engine in Romeo RDU for strerling Battery pack for Rawsonville skilled wages from those who elected to go back to rpoduction Commitment to keep Mustang past current life cycle plus incremental assy work (concern over mazda pulling out after Ford sold controlling interest) $1000 QUALITY BONUS because we all did out part to turn around quailty, in a time that we lost 40k members, to be better than toyota and honda RETIREE'S WERE NOT TOUCHED IN ANY WAY WITH THIS MODIFICATION! Umm, What then does Ford benefit from this, and what is the monetary dollar amount for Ford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uawwidow Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Hey liquidspine, don't feel like the lone ranger. Capt723 seems to have "post selectivity issues" when it comes to responding. And reading comprehension issues prior to those responses. I guess we're just supposed to plug our ears, close our eyes and trust whomever is holding our hand to lead us through this minefield. However if we did that we'd be one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Hey liquidspine, don't feel like the lone ranger. Capt723 seems to have "post selectivity issues" when it comes to responding. And reading comprehension issues prior to those responses. I guess we're just supposed to plug our ears, close our eyes and trust whomever is holding our hand to lead us through this minefield. However if we did that we'd be one of them. I am noticing that, sad really the one yelling the loudest about not listening to bogus info is the one with the blinders on and ignores the facts. Very hypocritical really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNGearhead Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 The U.A.W. goons were out in force on the floor at Sharonville today trying to talk everyone into voting yes on the modifications. The IUAW must have really had them drinking the coolaid up there in Detroit last week! No more giveaways !! It's obvious that Ford's "Way Forward" is Overseas in China, India, Mexico......It's hard to compete against workers who only get a handfull of rice a day for wages. No Right To Strike, No Union ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompor1 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 "No thanks I'm good where I'm at" My second NO this year…………Somebody needs to wake up………… If it is us then so be it……….... No more blind following..................Open your eyes people!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laidofflocal400member Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 how again will voting No save organizzed labor? Right now what product does OHAP, AAI, Louisville, Rawsonville and Romeo have? Where do the members of Indy get to go if they are closed? What does this agreement give up? I am having a hard time finding it each time I read the modification language! Lets see:Company gets: cap raised on 20% entry level (they would have to find 11k jobs in oder to go above the 20% cap) Skilled trades mechanical teams (UAW negotiated teams in 2007 and it was going to be implemented in 4 plants) Arbitration on all wage and benefit increases (UAW still retain the right to strike over all other issues and the UAW would never strike over wage and benefit increases anyway, the UAW would tie a strike to something other than Wages and benefits as to not seem greedy) UAW Gains: Different product for OHAP Different product for LAP Additional product for Mich Assy Engine in Romeo RDU for strerling Battery pack for Rawsonville skilled wages from those who elected to go back to rpoduction Commitment to keep Mustang past current life cycle plus incremental assy work (concern over mazda pulling out after Ford sold controlling interest) $1000 QUALITY BONUS because we all did out part to turn around quailty, in a time that we lost 40k members, to be better than toyota and honda RETIREE'S WERE NOT TOUCHED IN ANY WAY WITH THIS MODIFICATION! Captain723 again you are misleading people.....ROMEO did not get a new engine program in this agreement....it says they will add some volume based on current engine architecture which means they will possibly add some numbers to the 6.2L that is coming online next month....we are still losing the 4.6 L next September which is the main volume and employee numbers. So when that goes away so does alot of people. Captain quit trying to put a good spin on something that is a non event! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixom22 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Who reached this agreement with Ford, Neville Chamberlain ? Who In the IUAW will stand up and say no more give backs. Who in the local's has the courage to stand up and say no more consessions. It is up to us the membership to vote this down. So be vocal and let your brothers and sisters know that you are voting no. They need to know they are not alone in thinking this is a bad deal. Don't be a appeaser for a bad contract. Vote No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Alan Mulally, CEO, Total 2007 compensation $21,670,674 Don Leclair, CFO, Total 2007 compensation $11,703,127. Mark Fields, President – The Americas, Total 2007 compensation $8,389,898. Lewis Booth, Exec. VP – Ford of Europe and Premier Automotive Group, Total 2007 compensation $10,264,463. Mike Bannister, CEO, Ford Motor Credit, Total 2007 compensation $8,677,747. And you want us to agree not to stike on wages and benefits? 3 words...GO FUCK YOURSELF I agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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