Shelby Mustang 20K over sticker

[bec5150]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/05/17/shelby...cker/index.html

[156n3rd]

Are you just another Taurus basher? One whom has never owned one?

[silvrsvt]

I was under the impression that Ford was pressuring Stealerships not to mark up the car stupidly?

[fllcobra]

Customer loyalty counts for nothing so long as money is involved.

 

That is why I will feel absolutely no guilt if the next car I buy is designed, assembled and built in Japan.

Edited May 20, 2006 by fllcobra

[bystander]

If the market will bear 20K over MSRP until demand cools off, what's wrong with selling the car at the market price? Should the dealers salute the flag and leave money on the table just so Joe Schmoe customer can turn around and turn a quick 20 bills as soon as he drives it off the lot?

[bri719]

Customer loyalty counts for nothing so long as money is involved.

 

That is why I will feel absolutely no guilt if the next car I buy is designed, assembled and built in Japan.

 

 

why, are dealers of Japanese cars somehow reward loyalty more than dealers of American makes?? I doubt it greatly

 

If the market will bear 20K over MSRP until demand cools off, what's wrong with selling the car at the market price? Should the dealers salute the flag and leave money on the table just so Joe Schmoe customer can turn around and turn a quick 20 bills as soon as he drives it off the lot?

 

 

you make a very good argument - which is also a good reason why Ford should double the production numbers, or at least keep making them year after year

[Mark B. Morrow]

Customer loyalty counts for nothing so long as money is involved.

 

That is why I will feel absolutely no guilt if the next car I buy is designed, assembled and built in Japan.

 

I recall plenty of over sticker Added Dealer Profit on the Miata when it was introduced on the Acura sports car and MDX suv and on the Prius. Japanese marque dealers are not imune to the profit motive. They are independent businesses. In fact, the MFG Suggested Retail Price is not enforceable by the manufacturer. A hot seller will always generate higher markups. That is the law of supply and demand. I guess if Ford wanted to keep the retail price down they could make 15, 000 GT 500s. Of course that would dilute the brand and upset the dealers.

[Guest Sixcav]

I don't know how many times I've said this, but it's been a lot. There's nothing that special about a GT500 over a standard mustang GT. Figure if the car is sticker at 40K and they are selling at 20K over sticker for a price tag of 60 grand right? Now go buy a standard Mustang GT and you have over 30 grand worth of savings to invest in aftermarket performance. I gurantee you for 30 grand you can turn your standard GT into a GT500 killer. Face it, a GT500 is just a Mustang with the 5.4 engine, supercharger, some slight mods to the suspension, the abscence of fog lamps and a little snake in the grill. That's what you're really paying for. Unless you happen to be a car buff it's likely you won't even know the difference between a GT and a GT500. I gurantee you a lot of people will mistake it for the V6 Mustang from the front. Likely not anyone that posts on this website because we all tend to be car enthusiasts. But as we are so interested in the auto industry bear in mind that the masses out there are not. They just see "Mustang". It will never register to them that there's anything special about a GT500. Only a few days ago I had to explain to a friend of mine that unless she opted for the Pony package she wasn't going to be able to get fog lamps in the grill of a V6 Mustang that she's considering buying. This is a car that's been on the market for nearly 3 years now. So if you just have to have a GT500 because you're all about just having something different, well ok I guess that qualifies. Just realize that to the vast majority of people on the road, you aren't different, its just another Mustang. Big whoop. If you're all about the performance and that's why you want a GT500 I'm pretty sure that you can get a standard Mustang GT to out perform this GT500 for less than 60 grand, or least perform as well. That's where I come out on it.

[IMBoring25]

It might make up for the vehicles sold at a loss if Ford was the entity making the money...They're not.

[bec5150]

Are you just another Taurus basher? One whom has never owned one?

I never bashed a Taurus, just stating the obvious, that they have not been a profitable car for quite some time. Even Ford admits that.

 

And yes, I owned a 97 Taurus.

[Extreme4x4]

I don't know how many times I've said this, but it's been a lot. There's nothing that special about a GT500 over a standard mustang GT. Figure if the car is sticker at 40K and they are selling at 20K over sticker for a price tag of 60 grand right? Now go buy a standard Mustang GT and you have over 30 grand worth of savings to invest in aftermarket performance. I gurantee you for 30 grand you can turn your standard GT into a GT500 killer. Face it, a GT500 is just a Mustang with the 5.4 engine, supercharger, some slight mods to the suspension, the abscence of fog lamps and a little snake in the grill. That's what you're really paying for. Unless you happen to be a car buff it's likely you won't even know the difference between a GT and a GT500. I gurantee you a lot of people will mistake it for the V6 Mustang from the front. Likely not anyone that posts on this website because we all tend to be car enthusiasts. But as we are so interested in the auto industry bear in mind that the masses out there are not. They just see "Mustang". It will never register to them that there's anything special about a GT500. Only a few days ago I had to explain to a friend of mine that unless she opted for the Pony package she wasn't going to be able to get fog lamps in the grill of a V6 Mustang that she's considering buying. This is a car that's been on the market for nearly 3 years now. So if you just have to have a GT500 because you're all about just having something different, well ok I guess that qualifies. Just realize that to the vast majority of people on the road, you aren't different, its just another Mustang. Big whoop. If you're all about the performance and that's why you want a GT500 I'm pretty sure that you can get a standard Mustang GT to out perform this GT500 for less than 60 grand, or least perform as well. That's where I come out on it.

 

No offense meant............... but that is just plain stupid.

 

Why would someone buy a GT500 for $60K, instead of a Mustang GT................. and modify it with the difference??? More reasons than I can state here. Mainly............ because they want to. They may not like to modify. They may like limited production vehicles. They may like something complete from the factory, with a full factory warranty. They may like to know that their very desirable Shelby car will always be worth more than a modified Mustang GT (realizing that when you sell a modified car, you basically give the mods away for free.............. and even alienate potential customers, because they feel you probably beat the sh*t out of the car).

 

Using your arguement.............. why buy a Mustang GT, when you can get a low/no option V6 and modify it to be much faster, for less. On that note, why buy the new Mustang, when you can get a used one for so much less............. and modify it to be much faster for much less. Hell, just buy a '87-93 5.0 and modify it for next to nothing. Or, just buy a Pinto for $50 and end up with something much faster, for much less money.

 

That arguement can go on forever.

 

As for those bashing dealerships for the markups. If someone willingly pays that price, then who loses. Nobody. Nobody forces anyone to do anything. Something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, at any given time.

 

BTW, someone who thinks a GT500 is a V6 Mustang is no enthusiast in any way, shape, or form. The GT500 looks much more different from the run of the mill Mustang, than the Z06 does............... of the run of the mill Corvette.

[Guest Sixcav]

That's just where I come out on it Extreme. I'm not the least bit impressed with the GT500. Sure I could by an 87GT 5.0 Mustang and amp it all to hell and gone. If you buy this car because of some silly higher resale value you're a fucking idiot. A car is the worst investment you will ever make. They never gain in value unless you keep the damn thing for 40 years and it just happens to be a collectible car. Likely in 40 years we won't be using gasoline anymore and if we are the GT500 will be using so much of it that even the very wealthy won't want to pay that price to operate a damn 40 year old mustang. This notion that it's a "Shelby" is just horseshit. Carroll Shelby didn't have a damn thing to do with the development of this car other than to allow his name to be used in association with it so suckers like you will think they got something special. This car was developed by a team of engineers at Ford who basically used off the parts shelf from their SVT bins. There's nothing new and innovative about a superchargd 5.4 motor. It's a standard issue motor at Ford. Is it fast? You betcha, fast as hell. But it's not worth the money to me. All you crowd following, monkey see, monkey do fuckers can make all the fuss you want over the damn thing. To me a truly unique Mustang, or any mass production car for that matter, is when the owner applies his or her own personal touches. That could be the motor, or a custom paint job, wheels and tires, stereo or a combination of any or all of these. Then its unique, then it's really yours. If you buy a GT500, great, you got one, just like the other 9000 they will build this year. Zippity-fuckin-do-da. lol But you gotta pay way more than the car is worth to get it. What was it you said?

 

They may like to know that their very desirable Shelby car will always be worth more than a modified Mustang GT

 

Tell you what, keep your GT500 that you paid 60 grand to get for a year and then try to sell it. See how much negative equity you have in it. You'll have to pay someone else to take it off your hands. That's 20 grand in negative equity right off the bat. How long you think you'll have to keep your fancy fuckin GT500 to suck up 20 grand in negative equity? After the first year of them is released, why would anyone pay you even remotely close to what you owe on a used GT500 when they can just order a brand new one from Ford for less? It's not worth the money, it's just the latest much ado about nothing.

[fllcobra]

Customer loyalty counts for nothing so long as money is involved.

 

That is why I will feel absolutely no guilt if the next car I buy is designed, assembled and built in Japan.

 

My point is simple. Business is business. I am sick to death about hearing the bullshit rant about how we have to buy American only to get completely f:censored:ed by the dealerships. They can keep the Shelby as well as every other car on the lot.

 

My next purchase will be based on the best value for my dollar regardless of where the car is built. If Detroit wants us to buy their cars, then stop f:censored:ing the consumer.

[silvrsvt]

My next purchase will be based on the best value for my dollar regardless of where the car is built. If Detroit wants us to buy their cars, then stop f:censored:ing the consumer.

 

The problem is that Ford has no true control over its dealership network due to the way US law is written. And of course this comes back to bite them in ass.

[Sporko]

How is charging the going rate for a performance car doing anything to screw customers? A GT500 is hardly a necessity. No one has to buy one. People are freely offering to pay for a frivolous, luxury product in a free market. It's not like dealerships are extorting people and forcing them to pay for anything. And what does loyalty have to do with it? I've owned 6 new Fords in the past 15 years but even the GT500's MSRP is out of my budget. Is Ford screwing me because they didn't price it within my means?

 

I read a lot on this site about "buying American", patriotism, and loyalty. Does all that really just translate to "dealerships and manufacturers should just do what I want?"

[Mark B. Morrow]

The whole problem with the premise of this thread is that Ford has nothing to do with what dealers charge for their cars. Moreover jacking up retail prices to "market price" isn't limited to Ford or any other manufacturer. My ex and I priced Acura TL's when they first came out, same story everyone was over sticker. It happened again with the MDX (deposit just to get on the list). I remember people paying thousands over on the the '76 Eldorodo convertibles, certain Corvettes, the first Miatas, the Viper, PT Cruiser, the Prowler, New Beetle, BMW M cars, Toyota MR2 and Supra. (The '641/2 MUSTANGS had bidding wars at the dealers).

 

It is usually a bad bet since the cars seldom hold their value much less the value of the premium. After a year or so the market is satisfied. In addition the second and third year cars are usually improved- my '641/2 Mustang comes to mind. What are the above cars worth now (excluding the early Mustang). It is a lot to pay to be the first on your block. The new Shelby may be an exception but I doubt it. It took 20 years for the original Shelby cars to appreciate in value. That only happened because the guys who loved them in the '60s and could not afford them then, can afford them now.

 

The sticker on a '68 Shelby GT 500 was $5 - 6k that was a huge amount then. 2 times a standard Mustang coupe. There was also a greater number of choices in '68:Z/28s Firebird 400s, AMXs, GTOs, HEMIs, etc. There aren't many competitors now.

 

Personally I think a used Hertz GT might be an interesting buy when they are retired. They will certainly be rarer in number.

Edited May 22, 2006 by Mark B. Morrow

[Extreme4x4]

That's just where I come out on it Extreme. I'm not the least bit impressed with the GT500. Sure I could by an 87GT 5.0 Mustang and amp it all to hell and gone. If you buy this car because of some silly higher resale value you're a fucking idiot. A car is the worst investment you will ever make. They never gain in value unless you keep the damn thing for 40 years and it just happens to be a collectible car. Likely in 40 years we won't be using gasoline anymore and if we are the GT500 will be using so much of it that even the very wealthy won't want to pay that price to operate a damn 40 year old mustang. This notion that it's a "Shelby" is just horseshit. Carroll Shelby didn't have a damn thing to do with the development of this car other than to allow his name to be used in association with it so suckers like you will think they got something special. This car was developed by a team of engineers at Ford who basically used off the parts shelf from their SVT bins. There's nothing new and innovative about a superchargd 5.4 motor. It's a standard issue motor at Ford. Is it fast? You betcha, fast as hell. But it's not worth the money to me. All you crowd following, monkey see, monkey do fuckers can make all the fuss you want over the damn thing. To me a truly unique Mustang, or any mass production car for that matter, is when the owner applies his or her own personal touches. That could be the motor, or a custom paint job, wheels and tires, stereo or a combination of any or all of these. Then its unique, then it's really yours. If you buy a GT500, great, you got one, just like the other 9000 they will build this year. Zippity-fuckin-do-da. lol But you gotta pay way more than the car is worth to get it. What was it you said?

Tell you what, keep your GT500 that you paid 60 grand to get for a year and then try to sell it. See how much negative equity you have in it. You'll have to pay someone else to take it off your hands. That's 20 grand in negative equity right off the bat. How long you think you'll have to keep your fancy fuckin GT500 to suck up 20 grand in negative equity? After the first year of them is released, why would anyone pay you even remotely close to what you owe on a used GT500 when they can just order a brand new one from Ford for less? It's not worth the money, it's just the latest much ado about nothing.

 

 

Well, now that you have spouted off your big ol puff of hot air................... let me fill you in on something.

 

You didn't get it.

 

You read my whole post.............. and you just didn't get it.

 

My post had next to nothing to do with the GT500, and everything to do with personal choice. Why would anyone buy a GT500 for $60K................. because they want to.

 

Thats it. Thats the end. They don't care that you think they are stupid. They don't care if they will ever, or never recoup their investment (and this is one thing that I do agree with you on................ anyone who thinks any car/truck is an investment.............. is an idiot). They buy it because they want to, and have the means to do so.

 

Do I like the car................ yep. Do I plan on buying one.............. nope. Will I respect the car, the same as I do all performance vehicles............... either stock from the factory, or well built by their owners............ you betcha.

 

BTW, I have built my own very heavily modified '91 Mustang GT. I researched everything, bought everything, and installed everything on the weekends, since the car had to be ready to take me to work on Monday morning. I raced the car, and showed the car............. up till 105K miles (from new), when I sold it. This is not the only vehicle I have built, or helped to build. I just bring up the Mustang, since you did.

 

In other words, I'm not just some internet junkie.

[hemisbc]

6cav>>>>""""This notion that it's a "Shelby" is just horseshit. Carroll Shelby didn't have a damn thing to do with the development of this car other than to allow his name to be used in association with it so suckers like you will think they got something special. This car was developed by a team of engineers at Ford who basically used off the parts shelf from their SVT bins. There's nothing new and innovative about a superchargd 5.4 motor. It's a standard issue motor at Ford."""

 

Alas, common sense and the worse part is; it's ugly; why would they not go back to the styling of the only real good looking one made; the first one.

 

Empty 4X4>>>>""""I raced the car"""

 

Yeah right, where could you race it and expect to win at any other than a Ford only event.

 

There's NHRA events in your back yard that pay big bucks to winners, have you entered or won one.

[dr511scj]

Customer loyalty counts for nothing so long as money is involved.

 

That is why I will feel absolutely no guilt if the next car I buy is designed, assembled and built in Japan.

 

Of course the same heartless mopes who gouge on the GT500 will be glad to deal you a Mazda, Kia or 'Yoda from one of their other stores.

 

Still, this mess is mostly FORD's FAULT.

 

Ford controls the supply. There is at best $5000 in added content over a regular GT (given Ford's economies of scale), but Ford jacks the MSRP $15,000 or more.

 

Then Ford puts hard limits on supply (twp year run, fewer than 20,000 units, no promise of anything remotely similar on the horizon, lots of toubling enviroweenie saber-rattling from the Hockey-Playing-Hemp-Wearer-in-chief at the top of the [Mis]management Committee or his stand-ins) without providing any safety valve or gap-filler model between the pedestrian, non-supercharged GT and the glorious Shelby GT500

 

(BTW, it's as "real" a Shelby as the 1968-70 Shelbys built by A.O. Smith on contract for Ford--I'll bet Ol' Shel hissself will even autograph the glovebox lid for a 3-yard donation to his heart fund, just like he does on the old-school Shelbys).

 

Then Ford stokes demand for two years up to a fever pitch.

 

What a fine way to treat about the only "loyal" customers the brand has left . . . .

[Mark B. Morrow]

Of course the same heartless mopes who gouge on the GT500 will be glad to deal you a Mazda, Kia or 'Yoda from one of their other stores.

 

Still, this mess is mostly FORD's FAULT.

 

Ford controls the supply. There is at best $5000 in added content over a regular GT (given Ford's economies of scale), but Ford jacks the MSRP $15,000 or more.

 

Then Ford puts hard limits on supply (twp year run, fewer than 20,000 units, no promise of anything remotely similar on the horizon, lots of toubling enviroweenie saber-rattling from the Hockey-Playing-Hemp-Wearer-in-chief at the top of the [Mis]management Committee or his stand-ins) without providing any safety valve or gap-filler model between the pedestrian, non-supercharged GT and the glorious Shelby GT500

 

(BTW, it's as "real" a Shelby as the 1968-70 Shelbys built by A.O. Smith on contract for Ford--I'll bet Ol' Shel hissself will even autograph the glovebox lid for a 3-yard donation to his heart fund, just like he does on the old-school Shelbys).

 

Then Ford stokes demand for two years up to a fever pitch.

 

 

What a fine way to treat about the only "loyal" customers the brand has left . . . .

 

 

OK dr511scj what is your alternative? Make 20,000 GT 500s and flood the market? Nothing to get excited about there. How about making none so no one feels left out. The limited production and maximum profit per unit IS the reason for building the car. Of course there won't be enough for everyone who wants one. Not everyone can afford or justify purchasing a GT500. There is the Mustang GT. The GT 500 should build interest in the Mustang line just like the original GT 350s and 500s did for the Mustang GT.

 

I don't think it is a mess at all, much less Ford's mess. Even if they sold for $10 k less, there would still be many loyal fans who could not afford it.

 

I don't see how making the GT500 less exclusive is more "Loyal" to the customer.

[Guest Sixcav]

Extreme you need to read your own bullshit before you get all hot and bothered buddy. In your first post you put:

 

 

They may like to know that their very desirable Shelby car will always be worth more than a modified Mustang GT

And then in this last post you say

 

 

They don't care if they will ever, or never recoup their investment

 

 

So which is it moron. Either they care about resale value or they don't. Some do, some don't? What? I was just addressing the mindless shit you posted in your little attempt to present the positive aspects of buying the GT500.

 

In your second post you said

 

My post had next to nothing to do with the GT500, and everything to do with personal choice.

But the first sentence you put in your first post was.

 

 

Why would someone buy a GT500 for $60K, instead of a Mustang GT

 

 

You don't know if you're coming or going dumb ass. You need to unfuck yourself and figure out what to say before you let your fingers take over man. Look if you wanna go buy a GT500, buddy have the fuck at it. I'm just saying I'm not that impressed with it, it's not big deal to me and I don't see the need for the big hoopla about what ulitmately is just a Mustang with a hopped up engine and a snake in the grill. Go for it man.

[Nels Nelson]

Just received the July issue of Car & Driver. It contains a comparison of the Shelby GT500 and the base Corvette with the 400 horsepower 6.0 liter V-8.

 

Bad news: the Shelby weighs some 600 pounds more than the Corvette making it slower even with a 100 horsepower advantage. Not only was it slower than the Corvette but the new Shelby GT500 was no faster than the previous generation Mustang Cobra with the 4.6 liter supercharged V-8.

 

Don't think paying $20,000 over the list price of the new Shelby that is already $15,000 more than the previous Mustang Cobra is a wise investment. Compounding this is the fact that the base Corvette at $44,490 is probably about what the MSRP is going to be on the Shelby GT500.

[NickF1011]

Not only was it slower than the Corvette but the new Shelby GT500 was no faster than the previous generation Mustang Cobra with the 4.6 liter supercharged V-8.

 

Don't think paying $20,000 over the list price of the new Shelby that is already $15,000 more than the previous Mustang Cobra is a wise investment. Compounding this is the fact that the base Corvette at $44,490 is probably about what the MSRP is going to be on the Shelby GT500.

 

Which dead grandma was driving it? Get Evan Smith behind the wheel and see what it will REALLY run. :happy feet:

[dr511scj]

OK dr511scj what is your alternative? Make 20,000 GT 500s and flood the market? Nothing to get excited about there. How about making none so no one feels left out. The limited production and maximum profit per unit IS the reason for building the car. Of course there won't be enough for everyone who wants one. Not everyone can afford or justify purchasing a GT500. There is the Mustang GT. The GT 500 should build interest in the Mustang line just like the original GT 350s and 500s did for the Mustang GT.

 

First, CAREFULLY REREAD my post. I suggested "gap-fillers or safety valve" model(s) in between the GT500 and the dangerous-to-supercharge GT.

 

Simply making the '03-'04 Cobra engine a reasonably-priced option in the GT would go a long way fixing this public relations fiasco. Offering a "supercharger/turbocharger-ready" HD-engine option in the GT would also work. Even offering the '03-'04 Cobra long block in the FRPP catalog might help. Yet Maximum-Profit Motors a/k/a FoMoCo can't even seem to do any of that!

 

(Meanwhile, GMPP continues to dominate the crate motor market, even without the F-Body driving demand)

 

Second. While Ford is, of course, about making money, the reason to build any car, including the GT500, to MEET CUSTOMER NEEDS, WANTS AND DESIRES at a fair price (meeting needs at a reasonable and fair price keeps customers happy and thus makes money) Ripping people off in the name of "maximum profit" is still ripping people off.

 

Third, even if the customer base is just the 100,000+ who previously purchased SVT vehicles, 4/5ths of them will obviously go home disappointed at the end of the GT500 program. Of course, given the legendary specifications for the car and the demise of any meaningful competition, the potential customer base is greater than just SVT owners.

 

Fourth, if it only costs around $5000 more to offer a supercharged V8 supercar than it does to pump out a ordinary hypereutectic-piston, PM rod, cast-crank "all motor" cookie-cutter sled, why should Ford and its dealers charge $15,000-$30,000 more for it? Artifical limits on supply isn't "free market" pricing. It's monopoly price gounging, plain and simple.

[NickF1011]

Fourth, if it only costs around $5000 more to offer a supercharged V8 supercar than it does to pump out a ordinary hypereutectic-piston, PM rod, cast-crank "all motor" cookie-cutter sled, why should Ford and its dealers charge $15,000-$30,000 more for it? Artifical limits on supply isn't "free market" pricing. It's monopoly price gounging, plain and simple.

 

Why should they charge it? Because people will pay it. I'm sure Ford could sell Navigators for $30,000. Why should they charge $20,000 more for it over an Expedition? It's the same argument. You're paying for exclusivity. If Ford knows people are going to buy them, why NOT charge more for it?

 

There's also much more to the increased cost of production than simply which parts are different. There's also all of the powetrain R&D money that needs to be recouped. Then there are many other small things you're not considering outside of the engine compartment: suspension tuning, brakes, body modifications, seats, etc. That all adds up. Let's also not forget the added complexity to the assembly line the GT500 is going to add. It will likely take much longer to assemble a GT500 than a standard V6 or GT due to all the unique components. That adds up to production line slowdown that costs them money.

 

Maybe you should get on Ferrari for only building 200 Enzos and charging a million a piece of them. Should they have built 100,000 and only charged $40,000? Nearly all limited-production vehicles are intentionally made limited production for the sake of offering the consumer something DIFFERENT and SUPERIOR to the "run-of-the-mill" regular models. Consumers who want something different and superior understand that they're going to have to pay for it.

Edited May 25, 2006 by NickF1011