stepup Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I know I just joined today but have been scrolling through these posts for years. I know I'll be accused of being someone else because I want another yes vote. Not true but whatever. The reality is that if we don't work with the company, I'm not talking about giving away the farm, then we will be forced to accept what they give us. This is why we are represented by the UAW, they negotiate. There is give and take on both sides. The problem is that most people focus on what the take is and complain. Ford will get what it wants one way or another. We need to approach this as a team even though I hate saying that word. But, it sounds good for P.R. If we take the line in the sand approach, nobody will be sympathetic when they get what they wanted and more because they will claim how greedy we are. And we can cry all day long on this site but 95% of the population will agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocash Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) I know I just joined today but have been scrolling through these posts for years. I know I'll be accused of being someone else because I want another yes vote. Not true but whatever. The reality is that if we don't work with the company, I'm not talking about giving away the farm, then we will be forced to accept what they give us. This is why we are represented by the UAW, they negotiate. There is give and take on both sides. The problem is that most people focus on what the take is and complain. Ford will get what it wants one way or another. We need to approach this as a team even though I hate saying that word. But, it sounds good for P.R. If we take the line in the sand approach, nobody will be sympathetic when they get what they wanted and more because they will claim how greedy we are. And we can cry all day long on this site but 95% of the population will agree with them. UM the last time a read the new modifications,the only things that Ford wants to take away from the UAW members are the very principles of what a union stands for and the reason why the UAW was created in the first place...Why don't you wake up and smell the coffee....What are you willing to give Ford next? an arm, a leg? maybe both arms and both legs?? your wife and children?? There is no reason for Ford to be asking for anything more,especially a no strike clause or a no cap on 2 tier wages at this time...Vote NO..The labor costs structure is comparable to the other auto companies now....Stop this madness now. Edited October 28, 2009 by gocash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganTruck_Mafia Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I know I just joined today but have been scrolling through these posts for years. I know I'll be accused of being someone else because I want another yes vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWeeps Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) UM the last time a read the new modifications,the only things that Ford wants to take away from the UAW members are the very principles of what a union stands for and the reason why the UAW was created in the first place...Why don't you wake up and smell the coffee....What are you willing to give Ford next? an arm, a leg? maybe both arms and both legs?? your wife and children?? There is no reason for Ford to be asking for anything more,especially a no strike clause or a no cap on 2 tier wages at this time...Vote NO..The labor costs structure is comparable to the other auto companies now....Stop this madness now. Let me ask all of you something that are in the 'Vote NO' camp. When/If we are the target come 2011, how much of a pay raise do you think the UAW will be able to negotiate knowing that the other 2 have binding arbitration on that very thing? Whether you want to believe it or not the fact is that any sizable pay/benefit increases will be limited by Chrysler or GM's capacity to afford it. Pattern Bargaining will assure that we don't strike on our wages or benefits anyway. It will be entirely up to the leadership to decide on what to go out on. Believe it or not it won't be for wages and benefits. So in reality, we're about to take a huge black eye in public opinion for something that doesn't even matter. If you're honest with yourself you have to realize that this agreement is nothing more than PR for Wall Street. To level the playing field. I agree with the original poster, if you thought that the US public hates us now, just wait till you see how they react when this vote goes down and they find out that we weren't even being asked to take a pay or benefit cut. We are absolutely at risk of reversing every market share gain we've made in the last 8 months and then some. But by all means, blindly vote NO so you can feel good about yourself. At least that is until you hear how the media talks about us when it's all done and possibly watch our volumes start to tank. Edited October 28, 2009 by WalterWeeps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtJester Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I know I just joined today but have been scrolling through these posts for years. I know I'll be accused of being someone else because I want another yes vote. Not true but whatever. The reality is that if we don't work with the company, I'm not talking about giving away the farm, then we will be forced to accept what they give us. This is why we are represented by the UAW, they negotiate. There is give and take on both sides. The problem is that most people focus on what the take is and complain. Ford will get what it wants one way or another. We need to approach this as a team even though I hate saying that word. But, it sounds good for P.R. If we take the line in the sand approach, nobody will be sympathetic when they get what they wanted and more because they will claim how greedy we are. And we can cry all day long on this site but 95% of the population will agree with them. WEll, Hello dummy. Do you realize a YES vote means they can screw you blind for the next 6 years and they've taken away our right to strike? 96% of the population does not work at Ford. You will be crying next year at this time, I hope you have a back up plan for your job. I've been there for 24 years- Ford would NOT have gotten what they wanted if people had the guts to STAND UP for themselves. I'm embarrassed at people who voted yes. Did they give you a tube of vaseline when you voted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtJester Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Let me ask all of you something that are in the 'Vote NO' camp. When/If we are the target come 2011, how much of a pay raise do you think the UAW will be able to negotiate knowing that the other 2 have binding arbitration on that very thing? Whether you want to believe it or not the fact is that any sizable pay/benefit increases will be limited by Chrysler or GM's capacity to afford it. Pattern Bargaining will assure that we don't strike on our wages or benefits anyway. It will be entirely up to the leadership to decide on what to go out on. Believe it or not it won't be for wages and benefits. So in reality, we're about to take a huge black eye in public opinion for something that doesn't even matter. If you're honest with yourself you have to realize that this agreement is nothing more than PR for Wall Street. To level the playing field. I agree with the original poster, if you thought that the US public hates us now, just wait till you see how they react when this vote goes down and they find out that we weren't even being asked to take a pay or benefit cut. We are absolutely at risk of reversing every market share gain we've made in the last 8 months and then some. But by all means, blindly vote NO so you can feel good about yourself. At least that is until you hear how the media talks about us when it's all done and possibly watch our volumes start to tank. For the love of pete- I can't freakin' believe what I"m reading on this site! You are drinking the Ford kool-aid if you feel you are doing the right thing by voting yes. There is NO level playing field, it's US against THEM. Do you realize that by taking away the right to strike, they can do whatever they want and never worry about repercussions? They are lowering wages as well. And, the American public does NOT hate us. The majority of people I know respect Ford. Next year at this time, when you are making 14 bucks an hour because of this contract- and do not say they can't do that, because they can- come back here and tell us how smart you were for voting yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seniority Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I voted NO today and feel all the better for it.What the hell good would a union be without the right to strike. We pay our two hrs. wages a month for representation and contract enforcement,not modifications and no strike clauses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornbread95 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 For the love of pete- I can't freakin' believe what I"m reading on this site! You are drinking the Ford kool-aid if you feel you are doing the right thing by voting yes. There is NO level playing field, it's US against THEM. Do you realize that by taking away the right to strike, they can do whatever they want and never worry about repercussions? They are lowering wages as well. And, the American public does NOT hate us. The majority of people I know respect Ford. Next year at this time, when you are making 14 bucks an hour because of this contract- and do not say they can't do that, because they can- come back here and tell us how smart you were for voting yes. the news paper states we are going to upset the balance of pattern barging there was no pattern for gm or chrysler because the government told them what they had to do if ford wants us to do what the goernment says they too should fill for bankrupcy. just my point of view i say hell no!!!!!!!its a slap in the face to ask for any more. mullay said it best IM FINE RIGHT WHERE IM AT!! :slap: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWeeps Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) For the love of pete- I can't freakin' believe what I"m reading on this site! You are drinking the Ford kool-aid if you feel you are doing the right thing by voting yes. There is NO level playing field, it's US against THEM. Do you realize that by taking away the right to strike, they can do whatever they want and never worry about repercussions? They are lowering wages as well. And, the American public does NOT hate us. The majority of people I know respect Ford. The American public thinks that UAW factory workers, not Ford, are a bunch of lazy crybabies that make $75/hr, don't fool yourself. Edited October 28, 2009 by WalterWeeps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 . When/If we are the target come 2011, how much of a pay raise do you think the UAW will be able to negotiate knowing that the other 2 have binding arbitration on that very thing? The very last thing International will be negotiating in '11 is a pay raise, It won't even make it to the table. Unless someone waves a magic wand and the market take's off like a 2010 GT500 out of the hole.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTP'er Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Who said we wanted a wage increase in 2011 anyways? We just want the taking to stop!!! Take from Allen or how about Mark....They certianly have alot more to give up than we do. And you know in 2010 the big boys @ the glass house can get there bonuses again in March of 2010. So think about why there offering a $1000 lump sum payment in March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) The American public thinks that UAW factory workers, not Ford, are a bunch of lazy crybabies that make $75/hr, don't fool yourself. Apparently you believe it yourself......Personally I dont care what Joe Q. Pubic thinks anymore. That horse has run its last race with me. Edited October 28, 2009 by whereswaldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBodette68 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 The American public thinks that UAW factory workers, not Ford, are a bunch of lazy crybabies that make $75/hr, don't fool yourself. Walter...you can quit the next chance you get ..Wal-mart is always taking applications...vote NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I know I just joined today but have been scrolling through these posts for years. I know I'll be accused of being someone else because I want another yes vote. Not true but whatever. The reality is that if we don't work with the company, I'm not talking about giving away the farm, then we will be forced to accept what they give us. This is why we are represented by the UAW, they negotiate. There is give and take on both sides. The problem is that most people focus on what the take is and complain. Ford will get what it wants one way or another. We need to approach this as a team even though I hate saying that word. But, it sounds good for P.R. If we take the line in the sand approach, nobody will be sympathetic when they get what they wanted and more because they will claim how greedy we are. And we can cry all day long on this site but 95% of the population will agree with them. We gave away the farm in March. Now we are being squelched like squatters. Give and Take. Hmmm....after you take away all the product commitments that were committed AGAIN, whats left ?? An incremental tranny here....return of Foci hvac to a plant that is closing/sold in 2 yrs there...... Whats left is NO NEGOTIATING. I am not taking a line in the sand approach. What we are saying is there is a HUGE DISCONNECT between International---Region----Local----and plant Membership. And they can either wait for '11 or go back to the table. Funny how in Normal contract yrs, the other 2 companies cry about following the pattern. Now that the costs are being driven to 1985 conditions (1970's for 2nd tier), now they want pattern. Why dont we see if GM even makes it. My money is on Chrysler to fail. Not cuz I want them to but just wait and see how the UAW gets sliced and diced over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdowell2 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Let me ask all of you something that are in the 'Vote NO' camp. When/If we are the target come 2011, how much of a pay raise do you think the UAW will be able to negotiate knowing that the other 2 have binding arbitration on that very thing? Whether you want to believe it or not the fact is that any sizable pay/benefit increases will be limited by Chrysler or GM's capacity to afford it. Pattern Bargaining will assure that we don't strike on our wages or benefits anyway. It will be entirely up to the leadership to decide on what to go out on. Believe it or not it won't be for wages and benefits. So in reality, we're about to take a huge black eye in public opinion for something that doesn't even matter. If you're honest with yourself you have to realize that this agreement is nothing more than PR for Wall Street. To level the playing field. I agree with the original poster, if you thought that the US public hates us now, just wait till you see how they react when this vote goes down and they find out that we weren't even being asked to take a pay or benefit cut. We are absolutely at risk of reversing every market share gain we've made in the last 8 months and then some. But by all means, blindly vote NO so you can feel good about yourself. At least that is until you hear how the media talks about us when it's all done and possibly watch our volumes start to tank. I don't know where the hell you are, or if you have been on the floor talking to the people, but no body has been asking for a raise now or when contract comes up. We have not had a raise in 7 years, and haven't asked for one yet. and we are not going to ask for one in the 2011 negotiations. We know the company is in trouble which is why we have worked with them up till now. We have been playing ball with the company since 2003 giving up a little here and a little there, we on the floor have had it with them always wanting. The Company has been getting what they need and the big guys up north have been getting all their millions like clock work, but yet we still have not asked for a raise, or anything else. What is it going to kill them to wait till 2011 to talk about all this?? I am not even asking to get anything that we have given back to them, but when the time comes are they going to be willing to put back some of what my Father and my Grandfather worked so hard to get? And as for the public, I am sick and tired of what they have to say, hell they can't even support the FORD plants in their area's because they are to busy out buy freaking Toyota's Honda's and other Foreign JUNK!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWeeps Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Walter...you can quit the next chance you get ..Wal-mart is always taking applications...vote NO TDBoette -The only thing I do at Walmart is F*ck your gap toothed mother in the Parking lot!!! I actually appreciate my job! But that's where you'll be working when my high seniority ass knocks you the f#ck outta your plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 TDBoette -The only thing I do at Walmart is F*ck your gap toothed mother in the Parking lot!!! I actually appreciate my job! But that's where you'll be working when my high seniority ass knocks you the f#ck outta your plant. Classy......keep typing so we can really see what you are all about. What a Card..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtJester Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The American public thinks that UAW factory workers, not Ford, are a bunch of lazy crybabies that make $75/hr, don't fool yourself. I look forward to seeing your source on this information. Please produce the link. Thank you in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWeeps Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I look forward to seeing your source on this information. Please produce the link. Thank you in advance. Fox News was reporting that we made $75/ hr during all of the turmoil in the Auto industry earlier in the year. Keith Oberman actually did an entire segment tearing apart this fallacy. And showed where they were deriving the $75/hr. By adding in legacy costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunionisforever Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 TDBoette -The only thing I do at Walmart is F*ck your gap toothed mother in the Parking lot!!! I actually appreciate my job! But that's where you'll be working when my high seniority ass knocks you the f#ck outta your plant. hmmm... The similarities between this guys outburst and Captain 723 are uncanny...makes you wonder if they are one and the same?? I've noticed a steady uptick in the desperate posts by the IUAW reps on here. I think they might be getting a little worried that the scam is collapsing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtJester Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Fox News was reporting that we made $75/ hr during all of the turmoil in the Auto industry earlier in the year. Keith Oberman actually did an entire segment tearing apart this fallacy. And showed where they were deriving the $75/hr. By adding in legacy costs. Oh yeah, I remember that one. Faux News is a Republican mouthpiece. Just because Fox said it, does not mean everyone believes them. Heck, even the repubs in my family think Fox News is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danehilby Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Let me ask all of you something that are in the 'Vote NO' camp. When/If we are the target come 2011, how much of a pay raise do you think the UAW will be able to negotiate knowing that the other 2 have binding arbitration on that very thing? "IT COULD NEVER HAPPEN TO US". Have you NO COMMON SENSE??? What happens to your workers if in the next 6 years inflation drives up 30% like it did in the early 90's, or 70% in the late 70's, or even 100% like it did in the late 1910's??? You'll be the first one out on the street with a sign saying, "WILL WORK FOR FOOD". INFLATION! INFLATION!! INFLATION!!!! WE ALL NEED TO WORRY ABOUT IT, IT IS A POSSIBILITY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
400member Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I know I just joined today but have been scrolling through these posts for years. I know I'll be accused of being someone else because I want another yes vote. Not true but whatever. The reality is that if we don't work with the company, I'm not talking about giving away the farm, then we will be forced to accept what they give us. This is why we are represented by the UAW, they negotiate. There is give and take on both sides. The problem is that most people focus on what the take is and complain. Ford will get what it wants one way or another. We need to approach this as a team even though I hate saying that word. But, it sounds good for P.R. If we take the line in the sand approach, nobody will be sympathetic when they get what they wanted and more because they will claim how greedy we are. And we can cry all day long on this site but 95% of the population will agree with them. All of this being said.... if management would accept the same terms they wish to impos on us relative as to bonuses, raises, rights to concerted actions and other such things,,,do you think there would be the same discord??? If the Ford Family would give common stock the voting rights back,,,,, the same discord??? Real promises to the employees, who are the major market in the US, of product, jobs, investment,,,, the same discord??/ If Ford wants what GM and Chyrsler have they took the same limitations on executive pay, and etc,,, the same discord??? If mgt really acted as a team, Mulally and Fields would have their respective families here and committed as we are! When mgt professes to benchmark the best run company except for mgt pay, bonuses and etc they lie to you and stockholders...mismanagement regardless of how they paint it. If the ford family really considered us family as they like to say, have them eat cheap burger, drive a 10 year old vehicle, apply for grants and scholorships for their kids education, live in a home were the roof might leak and then wonder if the light bill is going to get paid because jobs got shipped to a low cost country..!!! If they would get their collective heads out of their asses, then maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtJester Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 All of this being said.... if management would accept the same terms they wish to impos on us relative as to bonuses, raises, rights to concerted actions and other such things,,,do you think there would be the same discord??? If the Ford Family would give common stock the voting rights back,,,,, the same discord??? Real promises to the employees, who are the major market in the US, of product, jobs, investment,,,, the same discord??/ If Ford wants what GM and Chyrsler have they took the same limitations on executive pay, and etc,,, the same discord??? If mgt really acted as a team, Mulally and Fields would have their respective families here and committed as we are! When mgt professes to benchmark the best run company except for mgt pay, bonuses and etc they lie to you and stockholders...mismanagement regardless of how they paint it. If the ford family really considered us family as they like to say, have them eat cheap burger, drive a 10 year old vehicle, apply for grants and scholorships for their kids education, live in a home were the roof might leak and then wonder if the light bill is going to get paid because jobs got shipped to a low cost country..!!! If they would get their collective heads out of their asses, then maybe... I am giving you a standing ovation for your post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWeeps Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) "IT COULD NEVER HAPPEN TO US". Have you NO COMMON SENSE??? What happens to your workers if in the next 6 years inflation drives up 30% like it did in the early 90's, or 70% in the late 70's, or even 100% like it did in the late 1910's??? You'll be the first one out on the street with a sign saying, "WILL WORK FOR FOOD". INFLATION! INFLATION!! INFLATION!!!! WE ALL NEED TO WORRY ABOUT IT, IT IS A POSSIBILITY Did I say "IT COULD NEVER HAPPEN TO US"? No, I didn't. Why don't you tell me the last time the UAW struck the Big 3 over wage and benefit increases? We haven't struck since '76 and it wasn't for pay and bennies then. Striking over wages and benefit increases allows the company, by law, to lock us out and bring in Scabs. That's why it'll never be for pay and bennies. Sourcing and Health/Safety, yes. So what are WE really being asked to give up? Have you no common sense, sir? It's PR for Wall Street people wake up! Edited October 29, 2009 by WalterWeeps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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