Its Time to give" Long Term Temps" their Seniority!!!

[whereswaldo]

Im currently a tradesman in production at DTP and i am more concerned with the international allowing all these "temp" positions both in production and in trades there hasnt been alot of perm. positions offered in trades in the zone because they are using all these "temp" jobs all over like saline, wayne, and romeo. Why arent these jobs being opened up as perm. jobs??? And the same goes for these temp production fill ins at ACH locations used to be people off the street(which i realize is a whole other issue...lol) now these are Ford employees from all over the zone being temps and then their former positions are being offered as temp positions( to tradesmen like factoryrat im guessing) when is it all gonna end!!!! Its becoming a MESS and no one is trying is doing anything to make things better. We need to have the union stand up and stop this practice and demand perm. positions for trades and production!

Nothing will change unless you and others take the issue to everyone...local and I-UAW. And dont let up. Regardless of ACH's "supposedly being sold or closed, there are plenty of EL's, MR,PSO,MW, etc etc. working as temps(Visteon employee) and most are retired blue, so they are double dipping anyway. These are jobs that trades on temp jobs on the line could be placed in. Mind you , locals will work to keep you out. But I find it absurd when Maumee MR's were on ILO for so long yet we had temp MR's working , collecting a Ford pension AND a Visteon paycheck. Keep the pressure on........

[fordguy723]

I agree 100%. If a Ford/ACH worker is transfered to a Ford plant, and is there for more then 90 days, they should become a permenate worker there. This temp worker shit is just the locals trying to protect there own members, we are all members of the UAW and should be treated the same no matter where you are from.

[toolmandano]

I agree 100%. If a Ford/ACH worker is transfered to a Ford plant, and is there for more then 90 days, they should become a permenate worker there. This temp worker shit is just the locals trying to protect there own members, we are all members of the UAW and should be treated the same no matter where you are from.

 

 

True words of wisdom!! If only we can get the I-UAW on that same page. Double dipping is fine, as long as ALL displaced, ILO'D and temporary placed FORD employee's have a perminent home. Until then........pull the plug on the temps.

[Captain723]

Nothing will change unless you and others take the issue to everyone...local and I-UAW. And dont let up. Regardless of ACH's "supposedly being sold or closed, there are plenty of EL's, MR,PSO,MW, etc etc. working as temps(Visteon employee) and most are retired blue, so they are double dipping anyway. These are jobs that trades on temp jobs on the line could be placed in. Mind you , locals will work to keep you out. But I find it absurd when Maumee MR's were on ILO for so long yet we had temp MR's working , collecting a Ford pension AND a Visteon paycheck. Keep the pressure on........

Good and while your at it why don't you ask them why they allowed Ford employees to transfer into an ACH facility anyway!! I am pretty sure the answer will be that they wanted to keep 2600 people off the streets, but it is a violation of the agreement so why don't they just lay off those 2600 employees and bring back the Visteon employees! Brilliant!

[whereswaldo]

Good and while your at it why don't you ask them why they allowed Ford employees to transfer into an ACH facility anyway!! I am pretty sure the answer will be that they wanted to keep 2600 people off the streets, but it is a violation of the agreement so why don't they just lay off those 2600 employees and bring back the Visteon employees! Brilliant!

I'll be back later when I have some time. But in the meantime, that agreement you speak of is only good to wipe yer a** with.

[Hard Driver]

If this is my fate to be on the line, so be it, just give me my seniority.

 

Then I'm sure you would agree that a production employee that goes to trades should get all of their seniority towards shift preference etc. :shades:

Edited January 18, 2010 by Hard Driver

[Pulse]

I don't want to seem ungrateful, but working on the line and not being able to use all my seniority is getting pretty dam old! All because the people in office don't want to piss off all the low seniority people and lose their votes. Well fair is fair. If it was you , you would want all your seniority.I have 3 times the time as everyone around me but I have one day less than the lowest person in the plant.So effectively making sure that I don't get any postings for better jobs. There are allot of people with over 20 years like myself, and only being able to use 5 . Think how happy you would be if it was you. The UAW is based on seniority, and they agree to let his happen????? It wouldn't make that much difference if I got to use my time for the 1 to 3 years I will be at my current location.

 

All I know is if they wont change it at plant level making it fair, I will do all that I can to make sure all in office are swept out at the next election.

 

I may sound bitter, but this is CRAP!

 

Tell me what I'm asking is too much.

 

 

Yep...my opinion is that you are asking for too much. F'ck all the dumb sh't. If you volunteered to go, the situation was clearly spelled out. Different seniority; no rights over the original blue's. Can't change the rules in the middle of the game. If this is not your circumstance...well then my bad.

[jerrymaker]

Trades to production, give us our skilled trades rate since you say it's long term temp position or give us our ford seniorty date, not june 2005. Now we have none of the above, however we are working and not off, for which i am thankful. We have some big issues with trades being on production and on ILO. Where can you put the tradesman and women?????

[uawfactoryrat]

Trades to production, give us our skilled trades rate since you say it's long term temp position or give us our ford seniorty date, not june 2005. Now we have none of the above, however we are working and not off, for which i am thankful. We have some big issues with trades being on production and on ILO. Where can you put the tradesman and women?????

 

 

AMEN Brother!!!!!!!!!!!

 

There are alot of us at these plants, people with voting power.Elections are not that far away.

[FiredMotorCompany]

I don't want to seem ungrateful, but working on the line and not being able to use all my seniority is getting pretty dam old! All because the people in office don't want to piss off all the low seniority people and lose their votes. Well fair is fair. If it was you , you would want all your seniority.I have 3 times the time as everyone around me but I have one day less than the lowest person in the plant.So effectively making sure that I don't get any postings for better jobs. There are allot of people with over 20 years like myself, and only being able to use 5 . Think how happy you would be if it was you. The UAW is based on seniority, and they agree to let his happen????? It wouldn't make that much difference if I got to use my time for the 1 to 3 years I will be at my current location.

 

All I know is if they wont change it at plant level making it fair, I will do all that I can to make sure all in office are swept out at the next election.

 

I may sound bitter, but this is CRAP!

 

Tell me what I'm asking is too much.

 

How would you feel if a production worker with more company time displaced a skilled worker to avoid ILO? What if company seniority worked both ways?

 

Until recently, non-production Appendix F employees were only able to exercise their date-of-entry seniority within their own trade or go to the street. Now, those who never worked in production have a second chance, a chance they can use to avoid the street. If being a "long term temp" keeps them on the rolls of paid employees, I think that is a good thing. Appendix F has worked to benefit you in the past, now you are eligible to keep working, outside any classification you rightfully have.

 

Although, the company and the union should not abuse the temporary placement system to avoid placing employees into openings that are not temporary in nature, but long term openings.

Edited January 18, 2010 by FiredMotorCompany

[uawfactoryrat]

How would you feel if a production worker with more company time displaced a skilled worker to avoid ILO? What if company seniority worked both ways?

 

Until recently, non-production Appendix F employees were only able to exercise their date-of-entry seniority within their own trade or go to the street. Now, those who never worked in production have a second chance, a chance they can use to avoid the street. If being a "long term temp" keeps them on the rolls of paid employees, I think that is a good thing. Appendix F has worked to benefit you in the past, now you are eligible to keep working, outside any classification you rightfully have.

 

Although, the company and the union should not abuse the temporary placement system to avoid placing employees into openings that are not temporary in nature, but long term openings.

Well, I hired in on the line and did about 10 years. No one is displacing anyone. There are no people in gen. Just so you know, no matter what classification you hold in trades if you hired in on the line you can drop your classification and go back on the line with full seniority. So whats the dif if I'm on ilo and go back with full seniority?

[Captain723]

AMEN Brother!!!!!!!!!!!

 

There are alot of us at these plants, people with voting power.Elections are not that far away.

? people with the voting power voted the last modification down that gave you skilled rate of pay. Have to wait till 2011 and try and get the same. As far as seniority into production, only if you had production time!! I can't get skilled seniority until I have been a tradesperson!

[Captain723]

How would you feel if a production worker with more company time displaced a skilled worker to avoid ILO? What if company seniority worked both ways?

 

Until recently, non-production Appendix F employees were only able to exercise their date-of-entry seniority within their own trade or go to the street. Now, those who never worked in production have a second chance, a chance they can use to avoid the street. If being a "long term temp" keeps them on the rolls of paid employees, I think that is a good thing. Appendix F has worked to benefit you in the past, now you are eligible to keep working, outside any classification you rightfully have.

 

Although, the company and the union should not abuse the temporary placement system to avoid placing employees into openings that are not temporary in nature, but long term openings.

I think he was talking about those who do not have prod. seniority, if not then sorry!

[FiredMotorCompany]

I think he was talking about those who do not have prod. seniority, if not then sorry!

 

If you were talking to me, Capt., yes I was referring to trades with no product time. And if I misunderstood the gist of this thread, sorry, my bad.

[AX4NTRIPLECLUTCH]

Yep...my opinion is that you are asking for too much. F'ck all the dumb sh't. If you volunteered to go, the situation was clearly spelled out. Different seniority; no rights over the original blue's. Can't change the rules in the middle of the game. If this is not your circumstance...well then my bad.

 

Don't say u can't change the rules in the middle of the game. It happened at my plant. We had 2 people transfer into our plant. Wait let me rephrase. We have 2 people that quit their plant and were re-hired at our plant, and thus came into the plant with a new starting plant seniority date. Then all of a sudden 3 years later, the day they were laying about 60 of us off, these 2 people were given their seniority back. Meaning their plant seniority date was adjusted to equal their Ford seniority date. So after asking questions it turns out these 2 people had some sort of agreement worked out at the international level. Just so turns out that the persons responsable for this so called agreement are retired now. We are being told that these people transfered under appendix N. If that is the case; why did they not come into the plant carrying their seniority? For them to transfer, our plant would have had to put a req. in for people. This would have had to generate a posting at these 2 peoples home plant. That never happened. In fact it seems there is a large number of people at their home plant without work, who have more seniority than these 2 people and were never offered a posting to our plant. There was a big stink at the union meeting that month after these 2 came in, and our chairman assured us these 2 could not displace anyone in our plant because they quit and were re-hired thus giving them a new plant seniority date. This matter has been taken all the way to Bob King. This all happened Feb 2009. It has been almost a year and we get nothing but the brush-off from our international reps. No action hoping the people will just forget about it.

 

Don't say they can't change the rules in the middle of the game. They did at my plant.

[Captain723]

Don't say u can't change the rules in the middle of the game. It happened at my plant. We had 2 people transfer into our plant. Wait let me rephrase. We have 2 people that quit their plant and were re-hired at our plant, and thus came into the plant with a new starting plant seniority date. Then all of a sudden 3 years later, the day they were laying about 60 of us off, these 2 people were given their seniority back. Meaning their plant seniority date was adjusted to equal their Ford seniority date. So after asking questions it turns out these 2 people had some sort of agreement worked out at the international level. Just so turns out that the persons responsable for this so called agreement are retired now. We are being told that these people transfered under appendix N. If that is the case; why did they not come into the plant carrying their seniority? For them to transfer, our plant would have had to put a req. in for people. This would have had to generate a posting at these 2 peoples home plant. That never happened. In fact it seems there is a large number of people at their home plant without work, who have more seniority than these 2 people and were never offered a posting to our plant. There was a big stink at the union meeting that month after these 2 came in, and our chairman assured us these 2 could not displace anyone in our plant because they quit and were re-hired thus giving them a new plant seniority date. This matter has been taken all the way to Bob King. This all happened Feb 2009. It has been almost a year and we get nothing but the brush-off from our international reps. No action hoping the people will just forget about it.

 

Don't say they can't change the rules in the middle of the game. They did at my plant.

I don't know a lot about that, but there is more to the story....there was a grievance filed for the 2 individuals and the grievance was won....right/wrong or indifferent! Not saying I agree or disagree because I don't know enough about that case, but do know there are more details! Sorry...Back to topic!!

[AX4NTRIPLECLUTCH]

I don't know a lot about that, but there is more to the story....there was a grievance filed for the 2 individuals and the grievance was won....right/wrong or indifferent! Not saying I agree or disagree because I don't know enough about that case, but do know there are more details! Sorry...Back to topic!!

Yes there was a grievance filed and they won you are correct. Our plant also has two other people who transfered in this same exact manner who were not given their time back. So what makes it good for the first two guys and not the other two? One of the two who were not given their time has had a grievance go thru int. and it was denied. So what makes it good for the first two guys and not the other two? Identical situations other than timing.

[Captain723]

Yes there was a grievance filed and they won you are correct. Our plant also has two other people who transfered in this same exact manner who were not given their time back. So what makes it good for the first two guys and not the other two? One of the two who were not given their time has had a grievance go thru int. and it was denied. So what makes it good for the first two guys and not the other two? Identical situations other than timing.

Again...I am sure there are details that you or I do not know and I am sure they are not exact, because no 2 cases are exact!

[TBodette68]

Don't say u can't change the rules in the middle of the game. It happened at my plant. We had 2 people transfer into our plant. Wait let me rephrase. We have 2 people that quit their plant and were re-hired at our plant, and thus came into the plant with a new starting plant seniority date. Then all of a sudden 3 years later, the day they were laying about 60 of us off, these 2 people were given their seniority back. Meaning their plant seniority date was adjusted to equal their Ford seniority date. So after asking questions it turns out these 2 people had some sort of agreement worked out at the international level. Just so turns out that the persons responsable for this so called agreement are retired now. We are being told that these people transfered under appendix N. If that is the case; why did they not come into the plant carrying their seniority? For them to transfer, our plant would have had to put a req. in for people. This would have had to generate a posting at these 2 peoples home plant. That never happened. In fact it seems there is a large number of people at their home plant without work, who have more seniority than these 2 people and were never offered a posting to our plant. There was a big stink at the union meeting that month after these 2 came in, and our chairman assured us these 2 could not displace anyone in our plant because they quit and were re-hired thus giving them a new plant seniority date. This matter has been taken all the way to Bob King. This all happened Feb 2009. It has been almost a year and we get nothing but the brush-off from our international reps. No action hoping the people will just forget about it.

 

Don't say they can't change the rules in the middle of the game. They did at my plant.

 

 

Let me guess. You work at Lima Engine Plant. Home of the sneaky, sloppy,lazy and sleazy labor relations team of teflon Dick and the garbage bitch.

[AX4NTRIPLECLUTCH]

Let me guess. You work at Lima Engine Plant. Home of the sneaky, sloppy,lazy and sleazy labor relations team of teflon Dick and the garbage bitch.

LMAO!!

[mustwang]

I am on lay off from LEP . What are the latest rumors ? How are JPH #s since the new year lay off ??

[AX4NTRIPLECLUTCH]

Again...I am sure there are details that you or I do not know and I am sure they are not exact, because no 2 cases are exact!

Let me assure u, I know all the details. The only difference is who has a father with connections and who doesn't. It is all a matter of who you blow to get results. When u look at the details, the two people who did not get their time back actually have a more legit case to get their time than the two that did. The two who did not get their time back at least were brought into the plant when the plant was hiring off the street. The two that got their time came into the plant when we had people in GEN. How do u bring anyone into the plant (with or without their time) when u already have an excess of people? Bottom line is four people who worked at different locations came into our plant, starting our plant with new plant seniority dates. The two people with connections were given their time back, and the other two were left hanging out to dry. If it is good for 2 it is good for 4. If it was not done right then it should not have happened for any.

 

I believe they waited this long to give them seniority back so that the people at Sharonville/Batavia who were not given the opportunity to transfer/quit rehire at Lima would have forgotten. I wonder how many people at Sharonville/Batavia were laid off or about to be laid off on 4/3/2006. I wonder how many of them had more than 8/16/1999 or 4/28/1998 seniority?

 

If the whole thing was legit, why do they need to file a grievance?

 

Why do these 2 people get special treatment?

 

Good for 2 good for all.

 

How does a person transfer into a plant when there is already people sitting in the GEN?

Edited January 20, 2010 by AX4NTRIPLECLUTCH

[Captain723]

Let me assure u, I know all the details. The only difference is who has a father with connections and who doesn't. It is all a matter of who you blow to get results. When u look at the details, the two people who did not get their time back actually have a more legit case to get their time than the two that did. The two who did not get their time back at least were brought into the plant when the plant was hiring off the street. The two that got their time came into the plant when we had people in GEN. How do u bring anyone into the plant (with or without their time) when u already have an excess of people? Bottom line is four people who worked at different locations came into our plant, starting our plant with new plant seniority dates. The two people with connections were given their time back, and the other two were left hanging out to dry. If it is good for 2 it is good for 4. If it was not done right then it should not have happened for any.

 

I believe they waited this long to give them seniority back so that the people at Sharonville/Batavia who were not given the opportunity to transfer/quit rehire at Lima would have forgotten. I wonder how many people at Sharonville/Batavia were laid off or about to be laid off on 4/3/2006. I wonder how many of them had more than 8/16/1999 or 4/28/1998 seniority?

 

If the whole thing was legit, why do they need to file a grievance?

 

Why do these 2 people get special treatment?

 

Good for 2 good for all.

 

How does a person transfer into a plant when there is already people sitting in the GEN?

Again, I do not want to hi-jack this thread, but unless you filed the grievance and heard it, how in the hell do you know the details? I do not know all the details so I am not going to speak on it!

Edited January 21, 2010 by Captain723

[AX4NTRIPLECLUTCH]

Again, I do not want to hi-jack this thread, but unless you filed the grievance and heard it, how in the hell do you know the details? I do not know all the details so I am not going to speak on it!

Again, it is not about the grievance. There should have never been a greivance.

 

I ask

 

Where was the posting? Not possible to argue something that never existed. If they transfered they would have come in with their seniority. There would have been a posting for all to sign.

 

So without there ever being a posting, they are in the exact same situation as the other two people except different timing, and connections at Solid House.

 

What is good for two people is good for all.

[228electrician]

Then I'm sure you would agree that a production employee that goes to trades should get all of their seniority towards shift preference etc. :shades:

the company does not care about the senority list, so why does the union have to have so many senority lists? screw that, get rid of date of entry and go back to company time which the union is suppose to protect. Go back to one list, not a company date, a plant date, and a trade date or a department date, one list is all we need.