AAI apprentices becoming journeyman?

[MSP_M/R]

This was explained to me by Steve Munafo, the Bargaining Rep here at AAI. He said that this information came directly from Mike Gieger at IUAW, "AAI apprentices are protected as stated in Appendix M of the Master Agreement."

 

There have been 8 openings, that I have seen, posted for the T/D, Mech. and Elect.Occupational Groups. The mechanical group or as we here call it, MSOG, includes MR, PF, MW and so on.

 

How do JSP outlines protect these members when JSP was eliminated in the modification agreement?

 

The chairman here, Gary Somerville said he was sure "HIS" people would be protected from ILO Journeyman coming in as Temp long-term FT'ers. Both committeeman Ty Cobb and Dustin Boyd were present, as well as, other "Temps". Gary said a special deal was made at the International level giving protection to current and future openings to the membership as an agreement to opening its doors to those of us that lost our JSP rights. He then said he could not confirm it. I have been asking to see the language and have gotten nowhere. A fellow member said I was pissing off a lot of people and burning bridges. Because I'm defending "our" rights!

 

Both the Master and Local Agreements say I or any other qualified ILO Journeyperson is allowed to bid on a skilled trades posting within the membership.

 

Is this happening at other plants or just here?

I want to grieve HR because they are the ones that said I'm not eligible to bid. Local leadership is of no help at this point.

Edited January 22, 2010 by MSP_M/R

[DrX]

Don't believe anything Stuipville says,he is a liar.

Edited January 23, 2010 by DrX

[MSP_M/R]

Today I met with Steve Munafo to find out about Appndx M.

He completely recanted what he told me. He now says Gieger was never spoken to.

I'm beginning to understand why 500+ FT'ers left to Saline.

 

ANOTHER LIAR WITHIN THE UNION LEADERSHIP at AAI.

Edited January 23, 2010 by MSP_M/R

[t-time]

come on now Kev !!!is all you do is whine!!!! :blah: if you're not satified with the answer than call the region

[smuaw]

Kevin Walentowski. You are the liar.

 

 

I am Steven Munafo and once again Kevin I will explain it to you.

 

Day 1

 

I was called out to talk to you on what you felt was an issue of equal application and demanded a grievance. I told you that I was going to talk to the reps that you had already talked to (i.e. Garry Sommerville, Kevin Hat field, Ray Sgro). I set up meetings on day shift to talk to Ray sgro and Rick Evans. Ray stated that he and the JSP rep had spoke to Mike Giger and that Mike had said that th members coming to AAI that are skilled are coming in as production and were not able to bid on Internal Skilled openings.

 

Day 2

 

I came out with both the B-shift Body and skilled rep the next day and told you what I had found out about what Giger had told the JSP and Skilled rep. I also showed you language that supported the what the Skilled and JSP rep had said and fact that protected employees on temporary assignment can not bid. I then went over the fact that you came to the plant with date of entry seniority because you were pissed and said you seniority did not count for anything.

At this point you tried to say that Appendix "M" was removed from the contract and you asked me to bring out the Large CBA with all the crossed out language.

 

Day 3

 

Tonight, I brought out the books as requested. I showed you that the language was still in the contract, At that point you seemed to just want to dismiss the contract. You then switched gears and started to imply that I had said that I talked to Giger directly ,when clearly on the first day I told you that I did not know Giger and had never talked to him. You then called me an Idiot and went back to the line, which was to bad because I did bring out some language that I thought you might find helpful. To Late.

 

 

I did find your childish display of loudly thanking me from the line and then once again calling me a fucking idiot quite weak but if the shoe fits.

 

Finnaly. As I said the first day I met you, "the Union meeting is Sunday".

Please come and voice your concerns to the membership and dont worry that you have called us all Idiots, we are pretty thick skinned.

[dividedwebeg]

Kevin Walentowski. You are the liar.

 

 

I am Steven Munafo and once again Kevin I will explain it to you.

 

Day 1

 

I was called out to talk to you on what you felt was an issue of equal application and demanded a grievance. I told you that I was going to talk to the reps that you had already talked to (i.e. Garry Sommerville, Kevin Hat field, Ray Sgro). I set up meetings on day shift to talk to Ray sgro and Rick Evans. Ray stated that he and the JSP rep had spoke to Mike Giger and that Mike had said that th members coming to AAI that are skilled are coming in as production and were not able to bid on Internal Skilled openings.

 

Day 2

 

I came out with both the B-shift Body and skilled rep the next day and told you what I had found out about what Giger had told the JSP and Skilled rep. I also showed you language that supported the what the Skilled and JSP rep had said and fact that protected employees on temporary assignment can not bid. I then went over the fact that you came to the plant with date of entry seniority because you were pissed and said you seniority did not count for anything.

At this point you tried to say that Appendix "M" was removed from the contract and you asked me to bring out the Large CBA with all the crossed out language.

 

Day 3

 

Tonight, I brought out the books as requested. I showed you that the language was still in the contract, At that point you seemed to just want to dismiss the contract. You then switched gears and started to imply that I had said that I talked to Giger directly ,when clearly on the first day I told you that I did not know Giger and had never talked to him. You then called me an Idiot and went back to the line, which was to bad because I did bring out some language that I thought you might find helpful. To Late.

 

 

I did find your childish display of loudly thanking me from the line and then once again calling me a fucking idiot quite weak but if the shoe fits.

 

Finnaly. As I said the first day I met you, "the Union meeting is Sunday".

Please come and voice your concerns to the membership and dont worry that you have called us all Idiots, we are pretty thick skinned.

 

 

Great response Steve. Glad to see a Rep come on here and set the record straight.

 

Too much anti union rhetoric on here (this site) makes us weaker as a union.

 

Thanks again Steve.... Hope to see more responses from u on AAI issues.

[wixom22]

Steve

You are just the man I have been waiting to see on Bon. Do you know why the apprentices where put on in the first place, when myself and many other where setting in the Wixom gen bank. We where told we were not able to transfer to AAI because of there compined trades. Then after the apprentices where put on they said we could transfer, but now there where no open spots because of apprentices put on course.

[MSP_M/R]

This is becoming personal and that's not good for any on us. I disagree with how you describe the situation. This isn't something I seek personally but a right of my fellow brothers and sisters that are considered Temporary Long Term FT employees. Put yourself in our shoes as a tradesman on ILO having no plant or Local to go back to because it was closed years ago.

 

Coming into AAI, I have learned that there is still an "us and them" attitude. Now you throw in the ILO people in the mix and it becomes protecting your own.

 

As far as you T-time, your free to an opinion. I'm thick skinned as well and easily brush off negativity. Everything I have provided shows that I or others have a right to bid. I admit that my passion towards our rights under the CBA can be aggressive, forward and blunt. That's probably why I'm not in office......I can guarantee you that. If you know me T-time then how about helping me with knowing my rights.

 

I've been told how AAI union leadership is always voted out.

 

A SHAME THAT THIS WILL ONLY REPEAT ITSELF....Truly!!!!

[bronco1994]

This is becoming personal and that's not good for any on us. I disagree with how you describe the situation. This isn't something I seek personally but a right of my fellow brothers and sisters that are considered Temporary Long Term FT employees. Put yourself in our shoes as a tradesman on ILO having no plant or Local to go back to because it was closed years ago.

 

Coming into AAI, I have learned that there is still an "us and them" attitude. Now you throw in the ILO people in the mix and it becomes protecting your own.

 

As far as you T-time, your free to an opinion. I'm thick skinned as well and easily brush off negativity. Everything I have provided shows that I or others have a right to bid. I admit that my passion towards our rights under the CBA can be aggressive, forward and blunt. That's probably why I'm not in office......I can guarantee you that. If you know me T-time then how about helping me with knowing my rights.

 

I've been told how AAI union leadership is always voted out.

 

A SHAME THAT THIS WILL ONLY REPEAT ITSELF....Truly!!!!

What have You shown here that proves the right that you are asking for?

All that I have seen On here is a bottle of wine and a box of crackers..

If you are being violated by the contract then file a complaint with the union..And if they Do nothing then go to the next step.

[buyus]

What have You shown here that proves the right that you are asking for?

All that I have seen On here is a bottle of wine and a box of crackers..

If you are being violated by the contract then file a complaint with the union..And if they Do nothing then go to the next step.

 

 

NO what is going on is, at the plants that are still open, the people that are comming from the closed plants are getting jobs but as temp statues.

 

That is bull shit. With no senority. THAT IS THE STORY AAI

[el norte]

NO what is going on is, at the plants that are still open, the people that are comming from the closed plants are getting jobs but as temp statues.

 

That is bull shit. With no senority. THAT IS THE STORY AAI

Everyone has a story! Amazing how many people think they are owed something. I've been treated with more respect at AAI, then I ever did with 12 yrs at Wixom. It's not who ya know, it's who you blow! Sounds like people pissed they have to start blowing all over again!

[level]

This was explained to me by Steve Munafo, the Bargaining Rep here at AAI. He said that this information came directly from Mike Gieger at IUAW, "AAI apprentices are protected as stated in Appendix M of the Master Agreement."

 

There have been 8 openings, that I have seen, posted for the T/D, Mech. and Elect.Occupational Groups. The mechanical group or as we here call it, MSOG, includes MR, PF, MW and so on.

 

How do JSP outlines protect these members when JSP was eliminated in the modification agreement?

 

The chairman here, Gary Somerville said he was sure "HIS" people would be protected from ILO Journeyman coming in as Temp long-term FT'ers. Both committeeman Ty Cobb and Dustin Boyd were present, as well as, other "Temps". Gary said a special deal was made at the International level giving protection to current and future openings to the membership as an agreement to opening its doors to those of us that lost our JSP rights. He then said he could not confirm it. I have been asking to see the language and have gotten nowhere. A fellow member said I was pissing off a lot of people and burning bridges. Because I'm defending "our" rights!

 

Both the Master and Local Agreements say I or any other qualified ILO Journeyperson is allowed to bid on a skilled trades posting within the membership.

 

Is this happening at other plants or just here?

I want to grieve HR because they are the ones that said I'm not eligible to bid. Local leadership is of no help at this point.

 

Gary did not make these rules, they have always been there.....nothing new. Let me explain.

 

Before the new contract.......if you were a laid off journeyman.....you had up to 2 choices

1. Go back to your previous production classification and remain on the Preferential Placement list for recall rights to your trade in zone, or

2. Be laid off to GEN/JSP as a tradesmen and wait for recall

 

Back then.....no one really went to production.......because you were paid 40 hours at trades rate to be in GEN/JSP and could wait forever.

 

 

New contract...........Now that there is no GEN/JSP bank you would be sitting on ILO ticking off Sub and Tap credits until exhausted....so.....based on opportunities in production at other locations.......trades were allowed to bust back to production just like before......with these two differences.....

 

1. Trades who never had production experience could go to open production jobs if there were openings, and

2. Temporary openings (long term temporary) openings were created at plants in production that employees could transfer to.

 

This gave the laid off tradespersons more options to work rather than sit and tick off sub credits........

 

 

At no time did it give trades who went to these temp openings the right to knock out graduating apprentices at the receiving location.....You never had that right....ever. We do not have national seniority and never did.

 

For example.......if you were laid off at Maumee......and temporarily went to production at AAI, you would have rights to bid on a new requisition for your trade, by seniority in zone.

 

However brother........this is where you are confused. They are not putting on new apprentices at AAI. Ford has not indentured any new apprentices anywhere since 2006.

 

The openings you are mistaking are their graduating apprentice postings. Basically internal postings for departmental placement of graduating apprentices......They are not openings for new apprentices I can assure you. rather than put on new apprentices.....the NJAC would surely recall laid off journeymen in zone by seniority......it would only be the right thing to do.....

 

Let me give you another example not using AAI and their confusing internal posting procedure.........

 

Say you were laid off from Maumee as a trade and went to Chicago temporarily as a production worker........you would not go to Chicago and knock out one of their 3rd year apprentices and take his job. It doesn't work that way. And when that apprentice graduates one year later while you are there at Chicago.....you wouldn't say "Now that you are a journeyman, I am going to take your journeyman spot". It doesn't work that way.......it never did......

 

that is exactly what you are asking to happen at AAI........you are asking to sign a posting for a graduating apprentices spot....not a new apprentice.......

 

This is not anything new brother.........and I know it may not have been explained to you correctly.........and I know that in the past there were struggles with AAI wanting to keep within........but this time there is no violation......

 

You still have what you always had.........preferential recall rights to your trade ....in zone......on an opening....and a graduating apprentice never constituted "an opening". Only national seniority would allow such......and in my opinion........we will never see that.

 

I hope I explained to you with examples you could understand........I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news.........I could only imagine how much you want back to your trade.....just as I would. But it is not Munafo and Sommerville, they are okay on this one..........

[MSP_M/R]

Thanks for clearing that up for me level. I have no problem working production, just want a HOME.

The ranks in AAI don't understand that. Everyone else came from a plant still open or were placed.

 

With due respect, Maumee is closed and Local1892 gone, so your analogy being Laid Off from Maumee doesn't apply.

The plant did close nearly 3 years ago and no one turned down transfer opportunities. Very few came in!!!

 

Who else out there doesn't have a HOME PLANT?

Who else out there doesn't have a UAW LOCAL where they aren't considered as a TEMP?

[MSP_M/R]

What have You shown here that proves the right that you are asking for?

All that I have seen On here is a bottle of wine and a box of crackers..

If you are being violated by the contract then file a complaint with the union..And if they Do nothing then go to the next step.

 

 

Tim Wheeler in Labor Relation told me I was not allowed to bid on the above mention opportunity. He told me that they are strictly for graduating apprentices. This is a violation of both the Master Agreement and the Local Agreement between AutoAlliance International and Local 3000.

Prohibiting an ILO Journeyperson to bid violates the following seniority rights:

As stated in Article IV Section 2B paragraph 3 of the Master Agreement, p 16 and 17.

As stated in the Local Skilled Trades Supplement Agreement, Filling of Openings-Skilled Trades, p 135.

To be recognized includes all ILO Tradesman with seniority, as stated in the Skilled Trades Supplement Agreement, Outline of Journeyman in MSOG, p 156.

Edited February 5, 2010 by MSP_M/R

[ALEX4398]

This individual circumstance is a small part of the big picture. What if AAI goes to one shift and they put 50 tradesmen on the street, a year from now their cap/tap runs out they go to Wayne as production. Wayne has 20 apprentices graduate would those AAI tradesmen with seniority expect those jobs. This scenario could be KCAP to CAP or anywhere. If you were in those shoes and I hope no one ever is wouldn't you want to have your seniority. The way the system is now having 200 hundred trades on ILO or working production go back to there tools is unattainable. Combining trades, using contractors, reduction in workforce is all leading to the simple fact that less tradesmen are needed. If no new openings are created the way the system is now a tradesmen would have no way of getting back to their tools. The same would apply for people from closed plants working in temp. assignments in production. I think more people see this than are willing to share because there is no good answer. Yes everyone is working and I would rather see that than 2500 of our union brothers and sisters on the street. There will have to be a point when some one and I am putting this on the lower seniority workforce 10 years and less ( I am in this group) will have to be displaced. I don't think any one can understand the reality of being in a great bid job or trade for 20 years and then taking a 800 dollar a month pay cut and driving an hour more to work without a moving allowance until they have done so. The way the system stands now this could be any of us at any moment.

 

I don't know if a leveling of the trades or company seniority is the answer or what is. I don't want to see local vs. local infighting and backstabbing among members. If I am seeing this whole thing wrong please enlighten me. I am 3rd generation union and am proud of our history, and together is our only way to finding solutions.

[dividedwebeg]

I will post Levels example again. Read carefully.

 

This might help clear things up also:

 

Loaned manpower (temporary) are loaned to AAI. When they are on loan and they have seniority in their unit they are on loan from (closed or not). The temporary loans will not establish seniority in the loaned unit (AAI).

 

This was a great way to keep all of us working.

 

Additionally, I do know the company contractually did not have to accept Ford workers back into a ACH plant (clearly stated in the CBA). Not only did the IUAW negotiate to find work in ACH, they bargained to do inverse and let Seniority have the option.

 

Again, these loans do not aquire senioriy in the loaned Unit.

 

 

 

 

 

Gary did not make these rules, they have always been there.....nothing new. Let me explain.

 

Before the new contract.......if you were a laid off journeyman.....you had up to 2 choices

1. Go back to your previous production classification and remain on the Preferential Placement list for recall rights to your trade in zone, or

2. Be laid off to GEN/JSP as a tradesmen and wait for recall

 

Back then.....no one really went to production.......because you were paid 40 hours at trades rate to be in GEN/JSP and could wait forever.

 

 

New contract...........Now that there is no GEN/JSP bank you would be sitting on ILO ticking off Sub and Tap credits until exhausted....so.....based on opportunities in production at other locations.......trades were allowed to bust back to production just like before......with these two differences.....

 

1. Trades who never had production experience could go to open production jobs if there were openings, and

2. Temporary openings (long term temporary) openings were created at plants in production that employees could transfer to.

 

This gave the laid off tradespersons more options to work rather than sit and tick off sub credits........

 

 

At no time did it give trades who went to these temp openings the right to knock out graduating apprentices at the receiving location.....You never had that right....ever. We do not have national seniority and never did.

 

For example.......if you were laid off at Maumee......and temporarily went to production at AAI, you would have rights to bid on a new requisition for your trade, by seniority in zone.

 

However brother........this is where you are confused. They are not putting on new apprentices at AAI. Ford has not indentured any new apprentices anywhere since 2006.

 

The openings you are mistaking are their graduating apprentice postings. Basically internal postings for departmental placement of graduating apprentices......They are not openings for new apprentices I can assure you. rather than put on new apprentices.....the NJAC would surely recall laid off journeymen in zone by seniority......it would only be the right thing to do.....

 

Let me give you another example not using AAI and their confusing internal posting procedure.........

 

Say you were laid off from Maumee as a trade and went to Chicago temporarily as a production worker........you would not go to Chicago and knock out one of their 3rd year apprentices and take his job. It doesn't work that way. And when that apprentice graduates one year later while you are there at Chicago.....you wouldn't say "Now that you are a journeyman, I am going to take your journeyman spot". It doesn't work that way.......it never did......

 

that is exactly what you are asking to happen at AAI........you are asking to sign a posting for a graduating apprentices spot....not a new apprentice.......

 

This is not anything new brother.........and I know it may not have been explained to you correctly.........and I know that in the past there were struggles with AAI wanting to keep within........but this time there is no violation......

 

You still have what you always had.........preferential recall rights to your trade ....in zone......on an opening....and a graduating apprentice never constituted "an opening". Only national seniority would allow such......and in my opinion........we will never see that.

 

I hope I explained to you with examples you could understand........I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news.........I could only imagine how much you want back to your trade.....just as I would. But it is not Munafo and Sommerville, they are okay on this one..........

[fordguy61mi]

Hey level, it's good to see you back posting on this forum. I can always understand your examples and how it applies to the situation. Thanks for your input.

[level]

Hey level, it's good to see you back posting on this forum. I can always understand your examples and how it applies to the situation. Thanks for your input.

 

 

Thanks!

[VDTRANSMAN]

Tim Wheeler in Labor Relation told me I was not allowed to bid on the above mention opportunity. He told me that they are strictly for graduating apprentices. This is a violation of both the Master Agreement and the Local Agreement between AutoAlliance International and Local 3000.

Prohibiting an ILO Journeyperson to bid violates the following seniority rights:

• As stated in Article IV Section 2B paragraph 3 of the Master Agreement, p 16 and 17.

• As stated in the Local Skilled Trades Supplement Agreement, Filling of Openings-Skilled Trades, p 135.

To be recognized includes all ILO Tradesman with seniority, as stated in the Skilled Trades Supplement Agreement, Outline of Journeyman in MSOG, p 156.

 

Article IV section 2B is for (NONPROMOTIONAL JOB TRANSFERS) employees who wish to transfer from one classification to an equal or lower rated classification within the same seniority unit.

 

An in plant job posting procedure is just that, for the movement of employees within the plant already on the rolls.

 

What you are attempting to do is confuse the difference between an in plant job posting and an open job requisition in which the unit is actually adding jobs (HIRING). The latter of the two would still require the administration of Appendix N Attachment C Placement Hierarchy, in which case you still wouldn't necessarily get the job depending on where you came from and what your seniority is compared to others on ILO from their trade elsewhere.

[Captain723]

Tim Wheeler in Labor Relation told me I was not allowed to bid on the above mention opportunity. He told me that they are strictly for graduating apprentices. This is a violation of both the Master Agreement and the Local Agreement between AutoAlliance International and Local 3000.

Prohibiting an ILO Journeyperson to bid violates the following seniority rights:

• As stated in Article IV Section 2B paragraph 3 of the Master Agreement, p 16 and 17.

• As stated in the Local Skilled Trades Supplement Agreement, Filling of Openings-Skilled Trades, p 135.

To be recognized includes all ILO Tradesman with seniority, as stated in the Skilled Trades Supplement Agreement, Outline of Journeyman in MSOG, p 156.

Check the hierarchy in appx N ( I think).....unless you are a trades that bumped into a perm. prod. job at AAI from a closed plant, you are not going to have preference over AAI members. Before they go outside of plant, they look at all ILOed, reduced to production and all RTBU (step 1)before going to outside list (step 2).

[ALEX4398]

The answers to the post are very helpful. Thank you for the last couple of replies.

 

My concern with this thread

 

How does someone answer to this tradesmen being placed? After 2 years of signing every bid and posting that came their way. After losing pay for years while lower seniority tradesmen work. Having zero seniority when you do chose to go back to production. Having no recall rights because your home plant closed years ago.

 

With more trades being displaced and skill trades losing openings to reclassification and work teams is it realistic to expect to think he will be placed?

 

The skilled trades need to band together and say enough is enough, Trades need to fight for the work that is rightfully theirs and keep all tradesmen working. We leave one of our own out now and who helps us in the future.

 

This could happen to anyone. Solidarity for all.

[Captain723]

The answers to the post are very helpful. Thank you for the last couple of replies.

 

My concern with this thread

 

How does someone answer to this tradesmen being placed? After 2 years of signing every bid and posting that came their way. After losing pay for years while lower seniority tradesmen work. Having zero seniority when you do chose to go back to production. Having no recall rights because your home plant closed years ago.

 

With more trades being displaced and skill trades losing openings to reclassification and work teams is it realistic to expect to think he will be placed?

 

The skilled trades need to band together and say enough is enough, Trades need to fight for the work that is rightfully theirs and keep all tradesmen working. We leave one of our own out now and who helps us in the future.

 

This could happen to anyone. Solidarity for all.

1. You will not be able to bump someone from their plant unless they have offered you a out of zone offer at which time you can tap the low person in your zone! Once you get to a plant on a permanent opening, Prod or skilled, that becomes your new home plant and as opening arise, you will be able to utilize your seniority!

 

2. You will be placed in accordance with the Hierarchy!

 

3. Stick together as long as you don't touch someones OT! FACT!

[Hi Ho Silver]

1. You will not be able to bump someone from their plant unless they have offered you a out of zone offer at which time you can tap the low person in your zone! Once you get to a plant on a permanent opening, Prod or skilled, that becomes your new home plant and as opening arise, you will be able to utilize your seniority!

 

2. You will be placed in accordance with the Hierarchy!

 

3. Stick together as long as you don't touch someones OT! FACT!

 

Ha! I am a tradesmen, and I can I won't agree with that but i won't deny it either!

[1993Stang]

Gary did not make these rules, they have always been there.....nothing new. Let me explain.

 

Before the new contract.......if you were a laid off journeyman.....you had up to 2 choices

1. Go back to your previous production classification and remain on the Preferential Placement list for recall rights to your trade in zone, or

2. Be laid off to GEN/JSP as a tradesmen and wait for recall

 

Back then.....no one really went to production.......because you were paid 40 hours at trades rate to be in GEN/JSP and could wait forever.

 

 

New contract...........Now that there is no GEN/JSP bank you would be sitting on ILO ticking off Sub and Tap credits until exhausted....so.....based on opportunities in production at other locations.......trades were allowed to bust back to production just like before......with these two differences.....

 

1. Trades who never had production experience could go to open production jobs if there were openings, and

2. Temporary openings (long term temporary) openings were created at plants in production that employees could transfer to.

 

This gave the laid off tradespersons more options to work rather than sit and tick off sub credits........

 

 

At no time did it give trades who went to these temp openings the right to knock out graduating apprentices at the receiving location.....You never had that right....ever. We do not have national seniority and never did.

 

For example.......if you were laid off at Maumee......and temporarily went to production at AAI, you would have rights to bid on a new requisition for your trade, by seniority in zone.

 

However brother........this is where you are confused. They are not putting on new apprentices at AAI. Ford has not indentured any new apprentices anywhere since 2006.

 

The openings you are mistaking are their graduating apprentice postings. Basically internal postings for departmental placement of graduating apprentices......They are not openings for new apprentices I can assure you. rather than put on new apprentices.....the NJAC would surely recall laid off journeymen in zone by seniority......it would only be the right thing to do.....

 

Let me give you another example not using AAI and their confusing internal posting procedure.........

 

Say you were laid off from Maumee as a trade and went to Chicago temporarily as a production worker........you would not go to Chicago and knock out one of their 3rd year apprentices and take his job. It doesn't work that way. And when that apprentice graduates one year later while you are there at Chicago.....you wouldn't say "Now that you are a journeyman, I am going to take your journeyman spot". It doesn't work that way.......it never did......

 

that is exactly what you are asking to happen at AAI........you are asking to sign a posting for a graduating apprentices spot....not a new apprentice.......

 

This is not anything new brother.........and I know it may not have been explained to you correctly.........and I know that in the past there were struggles with AAI wanting to keep within........but this time there is no violation......

 

You still have what you always had.........preferential recall rights to your trade ....in zone......on an opening....and a graduating apprentice never constituted "an opening". Only national seniority would allow such......and in my opinion........we will never see that.

 

I hope I explained to you with examples you could understand........I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news.........I could only imagine how much you want back to your trade.....just as I would. But it is not Munafo and Sommerville, they are okay on this one..........

 

I guess I'm trying to understand what you have posted. If a skilled trade journeyman has been laid off as a millwright at lets say Maumee and then he takes a job at AAI as a temporary production associate, then a millwright apprentice graduates within that trade, he or she gets to keep his lower wage millwright trade position? Why on earth would that be o.k.? Even though the millwright has been laid off and has 15 years millwright experience, the new journeyman still has more rights to hold the job than the temp. production associate that used to be a full-fledged journeyman. If he cannot return because of closure, this should not be happening IMHO. As a tradesman, he should be able to use his tradesman seniority. He/She then is also not aloud to use their seniority on production either or am I wrong about that as well? If so that is just crazy!! Again, seniority and skill means absolutely nothing! I can see why they (skilled trade are so pissed off).