Medium duty news

[Joe771476]

Can anybody explain how Dodge had a 41 percent increase in class 3 thru 7 while everybody else had a 24 to 52 percent decrease? Meanwhile Navistar has acquired Continental Mfg. giving it control over North America's largest privately held mfr. of cement mixers. Spartan Motors, a large specialty vehicle mfr. of fire apparatus etc. has acquired Utilimaster. Bucyrus has purchased Terex's mining unit. Isuzu may want to pull out of its diesel joint venture with GM. One website shows F-series mediums (650/750) with the extended cab but NOT the 4-door versions. Did they stop making the 4-doors?

[Bob Rosadini]

Can anybody explain how Dodge had a 41 percent increase in class 3 thru 7 while everybody else had a 24 to 52 percent decrease? Meanwhile Navistar has acquired Continental Mfg. giving it control over North America's largest privately held mfr. of cement mixers. Spartan Motors, a large specialty vehicle mfr. of fire apparatus etc. has acquired Utilimaster. Bucyrus has purchased Terex's mining unit. Isuzu may want to pull out of its diesel joint venture with GM. One website shows F-series mediums (650/750) with the extended cab but NOT the 4-door versions. Did they stop making the 4-doors?

Joe- I would say their 41% increase was easy when you didn't sell much in the previous year- and again, its all class 3 and I guess 4.

 

As for the Crew cab, I'm sure its still an option.

 

Oh and as for Navistar buying Continental, unless they have money to burn I can't see how that makes sense. - the readi-mix world is headed for front discharge- most contractors don't want a rear discharge mixer on a job site as the front discharge mixer does in fact reduce manpower on many jobs.

[RichardJensen]

They have front discharge cement mixers now?

 

What a country!

[7Mary3]

Around here, Dodge is making a heck of a run on class 4 and 5, particularly in towing. My guess is there are a lot of dissatisfied Powerstroke customers out there. Hopefully, Ford will win some of them back with the 6.7L. As for front discarge mixers, they are not legal in many states due to their front axle loading.

[lfeg]

Around here, sales of class 5 through 7 are pretty slow, except that I am seeing alot more Hinos on the road. Also, up until last year you never saw a Dodge with anything but a pickup bed on it. Now the Dodges in class 3 and 4 are showing up pretty regularly, especially with towing companies. Some pretty good deals and hefty incentives on those units too.

 

On mixers, most around here are conventional style, they are preferred, - primarily Mack with a few Freightliner and Peterbuilt. Almost never an International cab and chassis. Up until about two years ago Sterling (and before that Ford) was about 1/4 of the market. Mack has always been very popular for mixers around here - two of the largest readymix providers have had ties to a large Mack dealer who is also a dealer for several brands of mixers and an upfitter.

[Bob Rosadini]

Around here, Dodge is making a heck of a run on class 4 and 5, particularly in towing. My guess is there are a lot of dissatisfied Powerstroke customers out there. Hopefully, Ford will win some of them back with the 6.7L. As for front discarge mixers, they are not legal in many states due to their front axle loading.

I like to think that the Powerstroke disaster of a few years ago is yesterdays newspaper. As far as Doge being big in the towing business, must truly be a regional thing. I go by a large Jerrdan distributor who stocks a largenumbe of finished trucks- ramps , booms etc. Can't say that I have ever seen a Dodge in their yard. Mostly Hino's, Binders, Fords (yes P'Stroke 350/450 as well as 650/750) plus the occasional KW or Pete class 7. As a matter of fact , I went by over the weekend and there was a 750 with a rack over the cab and an elevating bed.

 

As for front dicharges being illegal because of front axle loads, that is surprising- I assume you are talking Calif.?. No engine up front plus I would say the barrel design is such that not much is carried in the forward section. Plus most of them here in the northeast are triaxles. Nothing like the old days when an A-Car or a B-81 was the chassis of choice- with 12- 24's, cast wheels and about a 55,000 lb. rear. But I date myself.

[RichardJensen]

The largest local concrete contractor here in Sioux Falls runs nothing but old Fords & Sterlings---or at least he did until he started buying Int'ls a few years ago. Seems most run Int'l or the Ford/Sterling.

 

I don't know that I've ever seen a Dodge tow truck--at least not one from a company with a fleet.

 

I can't imagine that the Dodge tow trucks will be replaced with new Dodge tow trucks when they wear out, as the only decent thing on those trucks is their engine. The lousy coachwork will probably drive the operators nuts if they're used to Ford or GM.

[Joe771476]

I haven't seen a conventional mixer in New England for at least 10 years, maybe 20. December 2009 F650 sales were almost double Dec 2008 (approx 800 vs. 450).

[WillSD]

One website shows F-series mediums (650/750) with the extended cab but NOT the 4-door versions. Did they stop making the 4-doors?

 

2011 Order Guide still shows Regular Cab, SuperCab and CrewCab versions of both the F650 and F750.

[7Mary3]

I like to think that the Powerstroke disaster of a few years ago is yesterdays newspaper. As far as Doge being big in the towing business, must truly be a regional thing. I go by a large Jerrdan distributor who stocks a largenumbe of finished trucks- ramps , booms etc. Can't say that I have ever seen a Dodge in their yard. Mostly Hino's, Binders, Fords (yes P'Stroke 350/450 as well as 650/750) plus the occasional KW or Pete class 7. As a matter of fact , I went by over the weekend and there was a 750 with a rack over the cab and an elevating bed.

 

As for front dicharges being illegal because of front axle loads, that is surprising- I assume you are talking Calif.?. No engine up front plus I would say the barrel design is such that not much is carried in the forward section. Plus most of them here in the northeast are triaxles. Nothing like the old days when an A-Car or a B-81 was the chassis of choice- with 12- 24's, cast wheels and about a 55,000 lb. rear. But I date myself.

 

Could be a regional thing. Often, all it takes is a couple of active dealers getting chummy with the body builders. As for front discharge mixers, I have never seen one in California. I am not a mixer guy, but I believe the reason is front axle loading (law is 12,000# max). Remember the mixer drum is supported only on the ends, that might have something to do with it. Mixer of choice here is the Peterbilt, usually a long wheelbase chassis with a booster axle, I guess that makes a 12 yard legal. Back in the day it was Pete too (remember they were originally from California) but used to see a lot of R model Macks, and a few Internationals, mostly 'Donald Ducks' and M series on/off road models. Plenty of Ford dump trucks, but never any mixers, no idea why. The local municipality had a fleet of GMC Brigadier mixers, they were around a long time because they didn't rust out here.

[Bob Rosadini]

2011 Order Guide still shows Regular Cab, SuperCab and CrewCab versions of both the F650 and F750.

2011 order guide? where did you see that. If you go to the Ford Fleet web site they don't even have 2010 guides- which is a moot point because 2010 production is I think done. so where did you get a 2011 order guide?

[7Mary3]

2011 order guide? where did you see that. If you go to the Ford Fleet web site they don't even have 2010 guides- which is a moot point because 2010 production is I think done. so where did you get a 2011 order guide?

 

I have not seen anything on the 2011 650 and 750 yet. I have heard rumors that the only changes are SCR and a new grille.

[WillSD]

2011 order guide? where did you see that. If you go to the Ford Fleet web site they don't even have 2010 guides- which is a moot point because 2010 production is I think done. so where did you get a 2011 order guide?

 

I am a dealership employee. The 2011 order guide (dated 2/2/2010) is up on the dealer site.

[Bob Rosadini]

I am a dealership employee. The 2011 order guide (dated 2/2/2010) is up on the dealer site.

Will-thx for info- another sad commentary on Ford's truck marketing skills- and before someone jumps all over me (Richard) I know they are the market leader- in pick ups. But I'm worried about the future of the commercial business. If you are a fleet customer with a Ford Fleet id no. that gives you access to the system, and you go to order guides for 750, it lists the 2009 guide as the most current.

 

So Will,does the 2011 guide under "key changes" list anything other than cosmetic. issues? A few of us- Joe 76, 7M3 etc would love some news that there is a future for 650/750 and that it is not yet another market segment that Ford will surrender.

[Joe771476]

More news: International is looking to increase revenue to annual sales of $20 billion. The fed. govt. is doling out over $100 million to the class 8 mfrs. to come up with a supertruck that will pave the way for making trucks with superb economical and environmental attributes. Meanwhile check this site out:

http://www.f650pickups.com/indexb.html

[WillSD]

So Will,does the 2011 guide under "key changes" list anything other than cosmetic. issues? A few of us- Joe 76, 7M3 etc would love some news that there is a future for 650/750 and that it is not yet another market segment that Ford will surrender.

 

F650/F750: What's New for 2011

 

Interior

New front seats; modified rear seats (carry-over attachments and positions)

Additional front row seat option with 40/20/40 configuration

- Front center (20-percent) seat has new attachment and position

Optional 6-way power and heated driver and passenger seats (leather seat option only)

Major revisions to the climate control system, including:

- Heating, Ventilating, and Air Conditioning (HVAC)

- Thermal Expansion Valve (TXV) controlled air conditioning system replaces Orifice Tube system

- New control head with 7-speed blower

Four body builder electrical switches mounted in the center instrument panel with connector access in the engine compartment

New cruise control switches are mounted in the steering wheel

The standard radio in XLT models now includes MP3 input capability

Overhead console with dual sunglass holder and individual map reading lights is included with XLT package

Overhead console is replaced by a gauge pod when option gauges (hour meter, volt meter, transmission temperature) or

features requiring auxiliary switches (e.g., 2-speed axle or differential lock, exhaust brake, air suspension dump) are ordered on

XL and XLT

The revised instrument panel gauge cluster now displays Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) tank level and system status

 

Exterior

Two stainless steel spotter mirrors are mounted below the primary mirrors

- Included on XLT; Optional on XL

New available Super Duty-style powered and heated trailer tow mirrors

 

Engine / Emissions Control

Engine and transmission combinations are revised to reflect Cummins horsepower/torque ratings changes (10 engine ratings

from 200 horsepower/520 lbs.-ft. torque up to 360 horsepower/800 lbs.-ft. torque)

The 2011 standard 6.7L Cummins ISB engine develops maximum power at a lower RPM than the 2010 engine (2,300 RPM vs.

2,400 RPM)

Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) will be used to meet emissions standards

- A 10-gallon DEF tank is standard. Located outside passenger-side frame rail behind the cab on Regular Cab and SuperCab, and

under the cab on Crew Cab models

- A 5-gallon DEF tank is optional on Regular Cab and SuperCab models with fuel capacity under 80 gallons

A new 38-gallon fuel tank located on the left-hand side under the cab and available ONLY on a Clean CA chassis with Regular

Cab and 5-gallon DEF tank

Extended-life (red) coolant is standard for 2011 Chassis Related

Spicer S140 rear axles are standard on F-650 straight frame models - Late Availability.

- This new series axle offers many features standard such as quiet GenTech gear sets, synthetic lube, and over a 100 pound

weight savings

Meritor MS-17-14X-3DLF axle is standard on F-650 Pro Loader

Meritor MS-21-14X-3DLF axle is standard on F-750. Other axle availability changes are included for 2011.

A larger 185-amp Leese-Neville alternator is now standard

For 2011 there are three standard exhaust configurations:

- For wheelbases above 221 inches, a horizontal exhaust system with the tailpipe exiting in front of the rear axle

- For wheelbases between 194 inches and 221 inches, a horizontal exhaust system with an over-the-rearaxle tailpipe

- For wheelbases under 194 inches, the new switch back exhaust system is outboard of the frame rails under cab right side

The 194-inch wheelbase is standard on all models

All Allison transmissions include synthetic fluid for 2011

Edited February 3, 2010 by WillSD

[ausrutherford]

Thats a medium duty we are talking about? Sounds like a luxury car with the heated seats and stuff.

[Bob Rosadini]

F650/F750: What's New for 2011

 

Interior

• New front seats; modified rear seats (carry-over attachments and positions)

• Additional front row seat option with 40/20/40 configuration

- Front center (20-percent) seat has new attachment and position

• Optional 6-way power and heated driver and passenger seats (leather seat option only)

• Major revisions to the climate control system, including:

- Heating, Ventilating, and Air Conditioning (HVAC)

- Thermal Expansion Valve (TXV) controlled air conditioning system replaces “Orifice Tube” system

- New control head with 7-speed blower

• Four body builder electrical switches mounted in the center instrument panel with connector access in the engine compartment

• New cruise control switches are mounted in the steering wheel

• The standard radio in XLT models now includes MP3 input capability

• Overhead console with dual sunglass holder and individual map reading lights is included with XLT package

• Overhead console is replaced by a gauge pod when option gauges (hour meter, volt meter, transmission temperature) or

features requiring auxiliary switches (e.g., 2-speed axle or differential lock, exhaust brake, air suspension dump) are ordered on

XL and XLT

• The revised instrument panel gauge cluster now displays Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) tank level and system status

 

Exterior

• Two stainless steel ‘spotter’ mirrors are mounted below the primary mirrors

- Included on XLT; Optional on XL

• New available Super Duty-style powered and heated trailer tow mirrors

 

Engine / Emissions Control

• Engine and transmission combinations are revised to reflect Cummins horsepower/torque ratings changes (10 engine ratings

from 200 horsepower/520 lbs.-ft. torque up to 360 horsepower/800 lbs.-ft. torque)

• The 2011 standard 6.7L Cummins ISB engine develops maximum power at a lower RPM than the 2010 engine (2,300 RPM vs.

2,400 RPM)

• Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) will be used to meet emissions standards

- A 10-gallon DEF tank is standard. Located outside passenger-side frame rail behind the cab on Regular Cab and SuperCab, and

under the cab on Crew Cab models

- A 5-gallon DEF tank is optional on Regular Cab and SuperCab models with fuel capacity under 80 gallons

• A new 38-gallon fuel tank located on the left-hand side under the cab and available ONLY on a Clean CA chassis with Regular

Cab and 5-gallon DEF tank

• Extended-life (red) coolant is standard for 2011 Chassis Related

• Spicer S140 rear axles are standard on F-650 straight frame models - Late Availability.

- This new series axle offers many features standard such as quiet “GenTech” gear sets, synthetic lube, and over a 100 pound

weight savings

• Meritor MS-17-14X-3DLF axle is standard on F-650 Pro Loader

• Meritor MS-21-14X-3DLF axle is standard on F-750. Other axle availability changes are included for 2011.

• A larger 185-amp Leese-Neville alternator is now standard

• For 2011 there are three “standard” exhaust configurations:

- For wheelbases above 221 inches, a horizontal exhaust system with the tailpipe exiting in front of the rear axle

- For wheelbases between 194 inches and 221 inches, a horizontal exhaust system with an over-the-rearaxle tailpipe

- For wheelbases under 194 inches, the new switch back exhaust system is outboard of the frame rails under cab right side

• The 194-inch wheelbase is standard on all models

• All Allison transmissions include synthetic fluid for 2011

WillSD- thx for the info- mindboggling that you can't get this current info on the Ford Fleet web site- just confirms my previous statements that the Ford Fleet bunch are car guys only- -do me a favor - check with your sales guys and confirm that Ford has two sales organizations- Ford Fleet and Ford Commercial Vehicles.

 

Also, any indication that these "rear seat attachments" are in fact for SCBA (air packs) for fire service? Also no mention of the 6.7 in the 650? that engine with its HP and Torque ratings should make for a very price competitive truck- or a very profitable one.

[lfeg]

"• Overhead console is replaced by a gauge pod when option gauges (hour meter, volt meter, transmission temperature) or

features requiring auxiliary switches (e.g., 2-speed axle or differential lock, exhaust brake, air suspension dump) are ordered on

XL and XLT"

 

It may be just me, but why would anyone want a 2 speed axle control on an overhead console? That might be a bit awkward to use. Even with an automatic.

[Bob Rosadini]

"• Overhead console is replaced by a gauge pod when option gauges (hour meter, volt meter, transmission temperature) or

features requiring auxiliary switches (e.g., 2-speed axle or differential lock, exhaust brake, air suspension dump) are ordered on

XL and XLT"

 

It may be just me, but why would anyone want a 2 speed axle control on an overhead console? That might be a bit awkward to use. Even with an automatic.

You are right on -my guess is they would put it there if it was not intended to offer the benefits of split shifting the transmission- in other words you had two gear ratios- one for off highway and the other for highway use. Perhaps in a fire truck. Oldtimers might remember "Huskidrive" This was something Brockway came out with in the late 60's/early seventies to counter the 6 speed Maxidyne. It was a Cummins designed with a low RPM power band like a Maxidyne but instead of using a two stick transmission with five and a low hole, It was a 5 speed trans (T-905 Fuller??) with a 2 speed rear. Except to keep the driver from splitting gears and driving it like a 10speed-thereby defeating the purpose of the engine with the 1200-2100 rpm band-, they put the two speed selector on the dash. Ancient History 101!

[7Mary3]

You are right on -my guess is they would put it there if it was not intended to offer the benefits of split shifting the transmission- in other words you had two gear ratios- one for off highway and the other for highway use. Perhaps in a fire truck. Oldtimers might remember "Huskidrive" This was something Brockway came out with in the late 60's/early seventies to counter the 6 speed Maxidyne. It was a Cummins designed with a low RPM power band like a Maxidyne but instead of using a two stick transmission with five and a low hole, It was a 5 speed trans (T-905 Fuller??) with a 2 speed rear. Except to keep the driver from splitting gears and driving it like a 10speed-thereby defeating the purpose of the engine with the 1200-2100 rpm band-, they put the two speed selector on the dash. Ancient History 101!

 

Huskiedrive! Yeah, I sort-of remember that. Before my time, I thought it basically was the same as Maxidyne but with a Cummins 'Custom Torque' engine. I knew Mack owned Brockway. Few Brock's made it out west, those that did seemed to have Continental gassers for the most part. Anyway, 2 speed axle control up on the roof would be stupid. Let's see you find that halfway up a steep hill as you are about to loose it. How about the Eaton 3 speed tandem?

[lfeg]

Hey, if we are going back that far, How about the old belt drive tandems. A tandem with one live axle and the dead axle wheels driven by belts at the wheels?

[Bob Rosadini]

Hey, if we are going back that far, How about the old belt drive tandems. A tandem with one live axle and the dead axle wheels driven by belts at the wheels?

And I thought I was the only old guy here- yeah when I started we had a lot of single axle B-61's. The weight laws had changed and when these things were new single axle tractors they pulled tandem axle tanks that carried about 6700 gallons. Rather then get rid of them, someone did the math and said it would be cheaper to put new frame rails in and add the third dead axle and belt drives. Page & Pager was the suspension of choice for this "scheme".

[lfeg]

And I thought I was the only old guy here- yeah when I started we had a lot of single axle B-61's. The weight laws had changed and when these things were new single axle tractors they pulled tandem axle tanks that carried about 6700 gallons. Rather then get rid of them, someone did the math and said it would be cheaper to put new frame rails in and add the third dead axle and belt drives. Page & Pager was the suspension of choice for this "scheme".

 

Yeah, Page & Page had some interesting set ups. Ford offered the Page & Page belt drive from the factory on the HTs in the early 60s. Some called it the "poor man's" tandem.

[Bob Rosadini]

Yeah, Page & Page had some interesting set ups. Ford offered the Page & Page belt drive from the factory on the HTs in the early 60s. Some called it the "poor man's" tandem.

HT'S!! Anyone with knowledge of the H series IS older than dirt! I never drove one- I do go back as far as a 66 or 67 WT 1000. Note, 1000, not 9000. I drove a Ryder for a couple of days when my regular 4564 White was down. It was a 250 and an RT-910. I thought Ford had finally made the big time!