RichardJensen Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/22/toyota.throttle.warning/index.html?hpt=T2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Comments down below say that Toyota issued a TSB for this eight years ago. However... aren't TSBs supposed to fix things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDuff Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 This doesn't have anything to do with Toyota's current quality problem. Ford has many tsb's that repair surging with a reflash. Some as recent as last year. We shouldn't confuse a "surge" with uncontrollable acceleration. A surge would be rythmic, like if you were slowly moving your foot up and down on the accelerator ever so slightly. This is muckraking/bad journalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 This doesn't have anything to do with Toyota's current quality problem. Ford has many tsb's that repair surging with a reflash. Some as recent as last year. We shouldn't confuse a "surge" with uncontrollable acceleration. A surge would be rythmic, like if you were slowly moving your foot up and down on the accelerator ever so slightly. This is muckraking/bad journalism. A couple points. 1: The behavior described by the TSB was NOT 'rhythmic surging'. It was a sudden and otherwise inexplicable acceleration event. 2: Calling a journalist a muckraker is hardly an insult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muckraker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 A couple points. 1: The behavior described by the TSB was NOT 'rhythmic surging'. It was a sudden and otherwise inexplicable acceleration event. Simply put, you are wrong about "surging" and theDuff is correct. That is how the term is used in the automotive industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8A4RE Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Simply put, you are wrong about "surging" and theDuff is correct. That is how the term is used in the automotive industry. I have been following this topic since late in 2006 when reports of unintended acceleration and hesitation were becoming numerous. I seems to me as if the guy who wrote this article used poor word diction. "Toyota knew much earlier about an electronic connection to sudden acceleration problems." This clearly describes the same sudden unintended acceleration problem that is occuring today. I know what surging is. This article is not really talking about surging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Either way, it clearly shows Toyota isn't immune to electronic issues. They've had them in the past, they will have them again. The Teflon is wearing off the Toyota image. Now where is my stainless steel pad??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 from a buddy in New Zealand whom worked selling Toyaotas online....Hi Dean, Sorry for the slow response. Been crazy busy finishing up at Toyota. Actually Toyota in New Zealand is going really well. We haven’t been affected by the USA drama. In fact apart from us recalling the Prius for a 15 minute software upgrade we’ve had no problems at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 "Toyota strongly disputes these completely baseless allegations being driven by plaintiff's attorneys like Mr. Howard," the statement said. "Toyota intends to fight against these unfounded claims vigorously." How can allegations be BASELESS if they from their own TSB? And CNN gave it to the plaitiff's attorneys. Toyota's grasping at straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyk24 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) "Toyota strongly disputes these completely baseless allegations being driven by plaintiff's attorneys like Mr. Howard," the statement said. "Toyota intends to fight against these unfounded claims vigorously." How can allegations be BASELESS if they from their own TSB? And CNN gave it to the plaitiff's attorneys. Toyota's grasping at straws. This link: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/10/toyota.whistleblower/index.html provides information from a former Toyota "in-house defense attorney" about how Toyota operates. Interesting reading and it "fits" the pattern of Toyota behaviors and reactions to issues with their vehicles. Edited March 23, 2010 by billyk24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDuff Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 A couple points. 1: The behavior described by the TSB was NOT 'rhythmic surging'. It was a sudden and otherwise inexplicable acceleration event. 2: Calling a journalist a muckraker is hardly an insult. If you read the actual TSB and not what the journalist wrote it says the driver might experience engine surging between 38 and 42 mph under light acceleration. Nowhere does it say an "acceleration event." I just think that this document being called "evidence" is a real stretch. I'm not saying software isn't the issue. In fact, I find it unbelievable that Toyota didn't include a reflash in the current recall. At the very minimum put certain safety measures into the software to prevent even a floor mat entrapment from causing an accident. Very easy for a software engineer to do. Throttle input vs. brake pressure input, or rate of vehicle speed increase vs. brake switch even. I think todays automotive ecu's are smart enough to know if the acceleration was unintended. BTW, I thought I was taught in 11th grade American history that it was an insult. Muckraking and yellow journalism were hand in hand. Looking at wiki, I guess I should have said yellow journalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) I find it unbelievable that Toyota didn't include a reflash in the current recall. They are performing a reflash on -some- vehicles, but not all, as part of the recall. Also, yellow journalism & muckraking were contemporaneous movements. That might explain some of the confusion. Edited March 25, 2010 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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