The earth stopped rotating today...

[Pioneer]

Couple of corrections.

 

It's an Optima, not a Forte. Sorry, the taillights look the same to me from across the street.

 

She was looking at a Fusion, not a Focus. She already has a 2002 Focus that her husband is going to keep to drive back and forth to work. Ironically, he is doing that to keep miles off their 1997 F-150. Both of which have given them no problems.

 

She says she bought the Optima over the Fusion for 3 reasons.

 

1. The Standard warranty.

 

2. Adding a service agreement to the Fusion to make it comparable to the Optima's standard warranty made it about $4,000 over the A-plan price of the Fusion.

 

3. If she was going to pay money to drive an import, she might as well get the cheaper one with the better warranty.

 

Those are her words, not mine.

[F250]

 

 

2. Adding a service agreement to the Fusion to make it comparable to the Optima's standard warranty made it about $4,000 over the A-plan price of the Fusion.

 

 

There is no way it cost $4,000.

A top line Ford ESP Premium Care 7/100k warranty which beats the hell out of the standard KIA warranty would be under $1,500.

[PREMiERdrum]

There is no way it cost $4,000.

A top line Ford ESP Premium Care 7/100k warranty which beats the hell out of the standard KIA warranty would be under $1,500.

 

My 7yr/100k Premium Care warranty on my '06 Explorer was $1,100 (when I bought it in 2006)

[Pioneer]

There is no way it cost $4,000.

A top line Ford ESP Premium Care 7/100k warranty which beats the hell out of the standard KIA warranty would be under $1,500.

 

 

I was quoted $1600 for the 7/100k on my Focus last February. They wanted $2200 for my Explorer back in 2004. She was quoted $2800 for the 7/100k on the Fusion. She got the 10/100k warranty standard.

 

Take the $2800 warranty and the difference in the price of the car and she came up with $4000. Maybe the dealership overpriced the ESP. If they did, they got what they deserved when she walked out.

 

Too bad she couldn't make the deal. Now I have to see it every time I look out my front window.

[twmalonehunter]

I was quoted $1600 for the 7/100k on my Focus last February. They wanted $2200 for my Explorer back in 2004. She was quoted $2800 for the 7/100k on the Fusion. She got the 10/100k warranty standard.

 

Take the $2800 warranty and the difference in the price of the car and she came up with $4000. Maybe the dealership overpriced the ESP. If they did, they got what they deserved when she walked out.

 

Too bad she couldn't make the deal. Now I have to see it every time I look out my front window.

 

The 10/100k warranty is powertrain only....what good is the powertrain warranty when the rest of the car is falling apart? And it is non-transferable from what I have read.

[Anthony]

The 10/100k warranty is powertrain only....what good is the powertrain warranty when the rest of the car is falling apart? And it is non-transferable from what I have read.

 

Only above 5/50 is "just" power train and non-transferable, otherwise it is a full warranty which can be upsold like any other manufacturer. For a standard warranty it is quite impressive.

[phil1336]

First of all, I want to make perfectly clear, I`m not a Ford basher. I`ve owned dozens of Fords over the years from Mustangs to Escorts to Focus`s to Explorers. I`m awaiting my 2011 Ford Fiesta 5 door hatchback I ordered the first of Mar. That said, any bashing of Hyundai or Kia is both stupid and pointless. Both car manufacturers have raised the bar for ALL car manufacturers to strive for. Their quality control, fit and finish are as good if not better then anyone else. Combine that with affordability, a 5 year/60K bumper to bumper warranty ( fully transferable) and a 10 year 100K power train warranty, you have a powerful combination. I currently own a 06` Hyundai Sonata and a 06` Kia Rio5 SX 5 door hatchback. Both cars have performed perfectly and neither has required but one or two visits back to a dealership for warranty work in over 4 years of service. The new 2011/2012 Hyundai Accent (Verna) released at the Beijing China Auto Show is going to be a huge hit when it finally gets to North America. Like they say, "You`ve Come a Long Way Baby", Hyundai and its sister company Kia have done a complete 180` turn-a-around since it hit our shores in 1977/1978 with the Hyundai Excel, which excelled at absolutely nothing. Good competition will keep Ford on top of its game with new improved product innovation. Thanks to Ford Europe for helping to "push the envelope a bit too".

[RichardJensen]

Ford Europe has much worse quality than Ford NA.

 

Their ergonomics aren't as good either.

[bzcat]

On his criticism of the 6 speed was he not aware of what L means on that transmission? Seems to me the way L works on this 6 speed addresses his beef and also alleviates the need for manual shifting.

 

I drive a stick right now and like to shift but I wonder if i had a manual Automatic if I'd end up using the manual shifter or if i'd be lulled into complacency and just let the car do what it wants ....within reason of course.

 

I drive a stick shift too and when I drive my wife's car (auto), I always leave it in D. But that is hardly the point here. Manual gates on auto transmission is one of those feature that people think they will need on the next new car but in fact will never use.

 

Healy's criticism is a valid one. The lack of manual gear selection smacks of cost cutting and not "consumer preference". It's the same thing with Fusion's lack of manual gear selection when it first came out. Ford said customers don't want it but just every other midsize car had it. The spec-sheet shoppers (which is most of the people) can only draw one conclusion: Ford cheaped out. Whether or not that is true is irrelevant. It's all in the perception. Ford finally added manual gates to some Fusion models during the midcycle update (albeit due to new transmission).

[atvman]

My 7yr/100k Premium Care warranty on my '06 Explorer was $1,100 (when I bought it in 2006)

I paid $800 for the 7yr/100K on the Edge. Trust me, the dealer will negotiate on warranty prices. They first wanted to sell it to me for $1200, but I told them to cut the price down. Remember, if you have a warranty you are going to take your car to the dealer, not an independant shop. Dealers make money on warranty work, so it is to their advantage to give you the warranty for as cheap as humanly possible.

[akirby]

I drive a stick shift too and when I drive my wife's car (auto), I always leave it in D. But that is hardly the point here. Manual gates on auto transmission is one of those feature that people think they will need on the next new car but in fact will never use.

 

I used it regularly on my '00 Lincoln LS for exactly what it's intended for - to allow you to hold a gear to prevent upshifts when blasting through low-speed twisties or to force upshifts or downshifts early for either better performance or fuel economy. It's not a substitute for a true manual.

 

Healy's criticism is a valid one. The lack of manual gear selection smacks of cost cutting and not "consumer preference". It's the same thing with Fusion's lack of manual gear selection when it first came out. Ford said customers don't want it but just every other midsize car had it. The spec-sheet shoppers (which is most of the people) can only draw one conclusion: Ford cheaped out. Whether or not that is true is irrelevant. It's all in the perception. Ford finally added manual gates to some Fusion models during the midcycle update (albeit due to new transmission).

 

It's not so much "cost cutting" - it's only software and some cheap parts. When you're designing a brand new vehicle with limited resources you just have to pick and choose what things to deliver now and what has to be done later. Having a manual shift mode would have required separate EPA certifications and a lot of additional tuning and testing. This isn't just a part you slap on the car.

[baggs32]

It's not so much "cost cutting" - it's only software and some cheap parts. When you're designing a brand new vehicle with limited resources you just have to pick and choose what things to deliver now and what has to be done later. Having a manual shift mode would have required separate EPA certifications and a lot of additional tuning and testing. This isn't just a part you slap on the car.

Since they had to certify the auto tranny anyway they could have made the manumatic the standard auto tranny and just certified it instead. I don't see how that would have to be done separate.

[akirby]

Since they had to certify the auto tranny anyway they could have made the manumatic the standard auto tranny and just certified it instead. I don't see how that would have to be done separate.

 

True but there is still the matter of software - the manumatic and automatic shift control programs are totally different. You have to code, test and calibrate each one separately so from a software standpoint it might as well be 2 different trannys. And I do think the EPA requires testing in both modes.

[aneekr]

Ford Europe has much worse quality than Ford NA.

 

Their ergonomics aren't as good either.

What quality and ergonomic issues are prevalent on new Ford of Europe products? I'm curious- perhaps my experience as described below isn't representative?

 

Recently I got to experience my cousin's new Mk4 Ford Mondeo ECOnetic (U.K. spec), and the quality control and ergonomics exhibited by this vehicle were top notch- better than my U.S. spec Ford Fusion SE (which is a fine car in its own right). The Mk3 Mondeo he had before he got the ECOnetic was also quite good in both respects. Ditto for the Mk2 Focus (2008 MY) rental car I drove the previous year, also in the U.K.

 

Also, in the case of the Mk6 Fiesta, haven't reviewers here in the U.S.- Mr. Healy's mild criticisms aside- generally praised the fact the Ford preserved the high build quality and user friendly design of the European version, with minimal "decontenting" or "modification" of the car for the North American market?

Edited May 7, 2010 by aneekr

[bzcat]

True but there is still the matter of software - the manumatic and automatic shift control programs are totally different. You have to code, test and calibrate each one separately so from a software standpoint it might as well be 2 different trannys. And I do think the EPA requires testing in both modes.

 

Which is my point... it is a cost decision not a "consumer preference".

 

Ford is claiming that potential Fiesta buyers told them they don't need manual gate shifter. The same story they spun when the Fusion came out. But the reality is that most buyers now expects some sort of manual shift function from their automatic, even if they don't use it very often (or at all). If most of Ford's main competitors have manual shift function (not currently so in the Fiesta class but certainly in the Focus and Fusion class), then it is still really a "consumer preference"? Why is only Ford's customer focus group saying this? Ford's going to talk itself into a dead end with that line of reasoning.

[RichardJensen]

What quality and ergonomic issues are prevalent on new Ford of Europe products? I'm curious- perhaps my experience as described below isn't representative?

 

Recently I got to experience my cousin's new Mk4 Ford Mondeo ECOnetic (U.K. spec), and the quality control and ergonomics exhibited by this vehicle were top notch- better than my U.S. spec Ford Fusion SE (which is a fine car in its own right). The Mk3 Mondeo he had before he got the ECOnetic was also quite good in both respects. Ditto for the Mk2 Focus (2008 MY) rental car I drove the previous year, also in the U.K.

 

Also, in the case of the Mk6 Fiesta, haven't reviewers here in the U.S.- Mr. Healy's mild criticisms aside- generally praised the fact the Ford preserved the high build quality and user friendly design of the European version, with minimal "decontenting" or "modification" of the car for the North American market?

Ford routinely scores below average in JDP's EU quality surveys. Routinely.

 

As to the ergonomic issues, I refer you to complaints about fonts, functionality, and button confusion on the new Fiesta that simply don't exist with any other Ford product (except gauge legibility on the Mustang).

 

I'm not talking about materials quality, I'm talking about quality as in 'won't break', and ergonomics are also different from materials quality.

 

The HVAC controls on the Fiesta (location aside) are great. Everything else is behind US standards.

Edited May 7, 2010 by RichardJensen

[Inselaffe]

Ford Europe has much worse quality than Ford NA.

 

Their ergonomics aren't as good either.

 

Numbers or GTFO!

 

And I don't mean pseudo-quality surveys like JD Power.

[akirby]

Which is my point... it is a cost decision not a "consumer preference".

 

Ford is claiming that potential Fiesta buyers told them they don't need manual gate shifter. The same story they spun when the Fusion came out. But the reality is that most buyers now expects some sort of manual shift function from their automatic, even if they don't use it very often (or at all). If most of Ford's main competitors have manual shift function (not currently so in the Fiesta class but certainly in the Focus and Fusion class), then it is still really a "consumer preference"? Why is only Ford's customer focus group saying this? Ford's going to talk itself into a dead end with that line of reasoning.

 

You misunderstood my point (seems to be a habit around here). It's not the cost of doing that - it's a matter of resources. If you're operating with limited resources (not just money but people, etc.) trying to get a brand new car out the door you can only do so many things in the timeframe allotted. If you have 5 projects but only enough people to do 4 then 1 can't be done.

 

I'm sure it's in the pipeline and will be done soon. I don't see any evidence of Ford scrimping on features or decontenting vehicles on purpose the last couple of years.