Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Shirts

[armadamaster]

By George Kiriyama

NBCBayArea.com

updated 41 minutes ago

On any other day at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, Daniel Galli and his four friends would not even be noticed for wearing T-shirts with the American flag. But Cinco de Mayo is not any typical day especially on a campus with a large Mexican American student population.

 

Galli says he and his friends were sitting at a table during brunch break when the vice principal asked two of the boys to remove American flag bandannas that they wearing on their heads and for the others to turn their American flag T-shirts inside out. When they refused, the boys were ordered to go to the principal's office.

 

"They said we could wear it on any other day," Daniel Galli said, "but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today."

 

Source

[akirby]

They weren't kicked off campus for wearing them. They were kicked off for not complying with a direct order to remove them or turn them inside out.

 

These boys were purposely trying to cause problems with such a over the top display on cinco de mayo and that should not be tolerated in school.

 

It would be no different than wearing Japanese flags on D-day or confederate flags on MLK day, etc.

 

If they want to protest do it on a public street AFTER school, not during.

[Ron W.]

"They said we could wear it on any other day," Daniel Galli said, "but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today."

 

 

What a crock, ban the vice principal instead.

[NickF1011]

They weren't kicked off campus for wearing them. They were kicked off for not complying with a direct order to remove them or turn them inside out.

 

These boys were purposely trying to cause problems with such a over the top display on cinco de mayo and that should not be tolerated in school.

 

It would be no different than wearing Japanese flags on D-day or confederate flags on MLK day, etc.

 

If they want to protest do it on a public street AFTER school, not during.

 

Of course they were stirring the pot, but answer this: Do you think they would have disciplined any Mexican-American students for wearing a shirt with a Mexican flag on it on the 4th of July?

 

Besides, if anyone takes offense to it, tough. What part of Mexican-AMERICAN are they missing?

[akirby]

Of course they were stirring the pot, but answer this: Do you think they would have disciplined any Mexican-American students for wearing a shirt with a Mexican flag on it on the 4th of July?

 

Yes, I do. Or I would at least hope so. My point is doing something to intentionally alienate someone or potentially cause a disruption in school should not be allowed - regardless of the holiday or race or nationality involved on either side.

 

I also believe the school has the right to enforce clothing standards and disobeying a direct order is grounds for punishment.

 

They can wear or wave flags all they want outside of school, but I don't think it's appropriate in school for anyone.

[akirby]

Besides, if anyone takes offense to it, tough. What part of Mexican-AMERICAN are they missing?

 

It's not about not offending people. It's about maintaining peace. All it would take is one disgruntled Mexican-American to start a fight and that could quickly turn into a riot.

 

Same reason you can't yell FIRE in a crowded auditorium when there isn't one.

[NickF1011]

Same reason you can't yell FIRE in a crowded auditorium when there isn't one.

 

I would call it more akin to yelling "Fire!" inside a kiln. People are too sensitive and too afraid to offend anyone or let anyone be offended. Why would a Mexican-AMERICAN have any reason to be offended by an AMERICAN flag? Are Irish-Americans offended by American flags on St. Patrick's Day?

 

What people should find more offensive is that so many Mexican-Americans put their patriotism for Mexico ahead of their patriotism for the United States.

Edited May 6, 2010 by NickF1011

[akirby]

I would call it more akin to yelling "Fire!" inside a kiln. People are too sensitive and too afraid to offend anyone or let anyone be offended. Why would a Mexican-AMERICAN have any reason to be offended by an AMERICAN flag? Are Irish-Americans offended by American flags on St. Patrick's Day?

 

What people should find more offensive is that so many Mexican-Americans put their patriotism for Mexico ahead of their patriotism for the United States.

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but even you can see that a group of kids going out of their way to wear American flags (including shirts AND bandanas) is clearly trying to send a message to Mexican Americans, right? What other purpose could there be to do something so over the top on cinco de mayo?

 

I could easily see some Mexican-American kid getting pissed and starting a fight and that's why I'm ok with telling them to take them off, not to avoid hurting someone's feelings.

 

I'd say the same thing about kids wearing t-shirts that make derogatory statements about other kids. It's not necessary and it could start a fight or some other type of disruption. School administrators should not have to put up with that.

[NickF1011]

I don't necessarily disagree, but even you can see that a group of kids going out of their way to wear American flags (including shirts AND bandanas) is clearly trying to send a message to Mexican Americans, right? What other purpose could there be to do something so over the top on cinco de mayo?

 

I could easily see some Mexican-American kid getting pissed and starting a fight and that's why I'm ok with telling them to take them off, not to avoid hurting someone's feelings.

 

I'd say the same thing about kids wearing t-shirts that make derogatory statements about other kids. It's not necessary and it could start a fight or some other type of disruption. School administrators should not have to put up with that.

 

They took off the bandanas without question. That should have been sufficient. Bandanas were against the dress code, and shouldn't have been worn regardless of what message they had on them. And what about the students wearing Mexican flags and face paint in Mexican national colors? That's not disruptive?? Why weren't those students asked to change or sent home?

 

What is derrogatory about the American flag? I'm hardly the gun-toting redneck type, but anyone who considers the American flag to be derogatory needs to get the hell out of our country.

Edited May 6, 2010 by NickF1011

[papilgee4evaeva]

News flash to all involved...

 

Very few people in Mexico care about Cinco de Mayo. So wearing a USA flag won't hurt our neighbors to the south one way or another.

[grbeck]

I don't necessarily disagree, but even you can see that a group of kids going out of their way to wear American flags (including shirts AND bandanas) is clearly trying to send a message to Mexican Americans, right? What other purpose could there be to do something so over the top on cinco de mayo?

 

Actually, if these Mexican Americans had any clue about history, they'd be upset about students wearing shirts sporting the French flag. Cinco de Mayo celebrates the victory of the Mexicans over the FRENCH in 1862. The decisive battle was fought in MEXICO, not the U.S., and the U.S. had nothing to do with it.

 

The U.S. later helped the Mexican government keep the French out, because if the French had won, there was a strong possibility that a new, French-controlled Mexican government would have aided the Confederacy during the Civil War.

 

Ironically, Cinco de Mayo is virtually ignored in Mexico. It is only celebrated in California!

 

I could easily see some Mexican-American kid getting pissed and starting a fight and that's why I'm ok with telling them to take them off, not to avoid hurting someone's feelings.

 

That's an explicit invitation to mob rule, and completely unacceptable. Don't like what a group of students are advocating? Threaten to beat them up and riot over it...and have THEM expelled.

 

Think this through, and how it can be applied in other scenaries. There is a high school in Virginia, and two students wear gay pride t-shirts and rainbow headbands. If enough students threaten to beat them up, the administrators...send home the students supporting gay pride.

 

Would you support that scenario? Or is your view based on whether the students stirring the pot are supporting a cause you support, too?

 

Here's a better outcome - explain to all students that violence is unacceptable, and that other students may have views that disagree with theirs, and students have to learn to live with it. This is how it works in that place called "the real world." (I was under the illusion that high school was supposed to prepare students to function in that place, but I guess not.)

 

And the one who throws the first punch gets a ticket to detention.

 

Any students don't like it? Tough you-know-what. And if Mexican students are upset over the display of the American flag, that is their problem, and they need to remember where they live. They need to deal with it, and move on...

Edited May 6, 2010 by grbeck

[akirby]

 

Think this through, and how it can be applied in other scenaries. There is a high school in Virginia, and two students wear gay pride t-shirts and rainbow headbands. If enough students threaten to beat them up, the administrators...send home the students supporting gay pride.

 

Would you support that scenario? Or is your view based on whether the students stirring the pot are supporting a cause you support, too?

 

I already said that I don't care what flag they're wearing on what holiday or what races/nationalities/etc are involved. These kids went out of their way to make a protest statement - there is no other rational explanation. If this had been one person wearing a simple Tshirt with a flag then I'd agree that it was overreaction. But 3 kids with t-shirts AND bandanas? They were looking for trouble and I respect the administration's right to ask them to turn the shirts inside out under those circumstances and if they failed to do so then they deserved whatever they got.

 

Here's a better outcome - explain to all students that violence is unacceptable, and that other students may have views that disagree with theirs, and students have to learn to live with it. This is how it works in that place called "the real world." (I was under the illusion that high school was supposed to prepare students to function in that place, but I guess not.)

 

And the one who throws the first punch gets a ticket to detention.

 

Any students don't like it? Tough you-know-what. And if Mexican students are upset over the display of the American flag, that is their problem, and they need to remember where they live. They need to deal with it, and move on...

 

Wow - I'm guessing you don't have kids in high school nor do you understand the responsibilities of school administrators to maintain order and AVOID riots in the first place. I guess it's ok with you if the school gets burned down and a couple of kids stabbed as long as the ones responsible go to jail?

 

What about girls' clothing? Should we allow girls to wear bikinis to school? After all, you can just tell the boys not to look or touch and if they do you can just punish them.

 

Again - this wasn't an individual's actions - this was an organized protest and I don't think it belongs on a school campus. Go do it on the street corner after school - nobody's stopping that.

[Mark B. Morrow]

Actually, if these Mexican Americans had any clue about history, they'd be upset about students wearing shirts sporting the French flag. Cinco de Mayo celebrates the victory of the Mexicans over the FRENCH in 1862. The decisive battle was fought in MEXICO, not the U.S., and the U.S. had nothing to do with it.

 

The U.S. later helped the Mexican government keep the French out, because if the French had won, there was a strong possibility that a new, French-controlled Mexican government would have aided the Confederacy during the Civil War.

 

Ironically, Cinco de Mayo is virtually ignored in Mexico. It is only celebrated in California!

 

 

 

That's an explicit invitation to mob rule, and completely unacceptable. Don't like what a group of students are advocating? Threaten to beat them up and riot over it...and have THEM expelled.

 

Think this through, and how it can be applied in other scenaries. There is a high school in Virginia, and two students wear gay pride t-shirts and rainbow headbands. If enough students threaten to beat them up, the administrators...send home the students supporting gay pride.

 

Would you support that scenario? Or is your view based on whether the students stirring the pot are supporting a cause you support, too?

 

Here's a better outcome - explain to all students that violence is unacceptable, and that other students may have views that disagree with theirs, and students have to learn to live with it. This is how it works in that place called "the real world." (I was under the illusion that high school was supposed to prepare students to function in that place, but I guess not.)

 

And the one who throws the first punch gets a ticket to detention.

 

Any students don't like it? Tough you-know-what. And if Mexican students are upset over the display of the American flag, that is their problem, and they need to remember where they live. They need to deal with it, and move on...

 

I agree with you grbeck. You do not have the right to go through life unoffended. The individuals involved are responsible for their own actions. Throw a punch and you're out.

 

There should be some limits. I do not think it would be appropriate to wear a Klan hood or t-shirt with obscenities on it, but an American Flag should never be banned.

[grbeck]

I already said that I don't care what flag they're wearing on what holiday or what races/nationalities/etc are involved. These kids went out of their way to make a protest statement - there is no other rational explanation. If this had been one person wearing a simple Tshirt with a flag then I'd agree that it was overreaction. But 3 kids with t-shirts AND bandanas? They were looking for trouble and I respect the administration's right to ask them to turn the shirts inside out under those circumstances and if they failed to do so then they deserved whatever they got.

 

There's one problem...the students sporting the Mexican national colors were not disciplined in any way. The administration was engaging in favortism, plain and simple, which is death to any school. Did the administration ask those students to remove what they were wearing? From what I've seen, no.

 

Wow - I'm guessing you don't have kids in high school nor do you understand the responsibilities of school administrators to maintain order and AVOID riots in the first place. I guess it's ok with you if the school gets burned down and a couple of kids stabbed as long as the ones responsible go to jail?

 

You pull the people threatening to riot or assault other students aside, and, if you'll pardon the pun, read them the Riot Act. If the police need to called to be the scene to add gravity to the administrator's threats and drive home the point, so be it.

 

I'm not saying that the principals need to stick their head in the sand during a volatile situation. I'm saying that they need to make it clear that threats and intimidation are NOT the way people express unhappiness with other people's views.

 

What about girls' clothing? Should we allow girls to wear bikinis to school? After all, you can just tell the boys not to look or touch and if they do you can just punish them.

 

Banning bikinis or other provocative clothing can be part of a dress code for both boys and girls. It is different from this situation.

 

The key is whether it's applied evenly.

 

To apply this to the topic under discussion, the school administrators basically told one set of girls - say, the blondes - that bikinis are okay during the school day, and if any boys ogle them or make crude remarks, it's the boy's fault.

 

The brunettes were told that bikinis are unacceptable, because it might encourage boys to stare at them. If any boys stare at them or make crude remarks, they had it coming.

Edited May 6, 2010 by grbeck

[Ron W.]

an American Flag should never be banned.

 

 

In America, damn right.

[akirby]

Wearing a flag on any other day would be an act of patriotism.

Wearing a flag individually at any time would be an act of patriotism.

Wearing a flag en masse with your buddies - outside of school - would be an act of patriotism.

 

Wearing a flag en masse with your buddies IN SCHOOL on CINCO DE MAYO is not an act of patriotism. It's a protest and social statement and that doesn't belong in school no matter who it's targeted at. This isn't about somebody being offended - it's about maintaining order with a bunch of walking hormone factories and I choose to give the administration some leeway in dealing with things like this even if they're being overly cautious.

 

Were schools wrong to ban gang colors?

[grbeck]

I agree with you grbeck. You do not have the right to go through life unoffended. The individuals involved are responsible for their own actions. Throw a punch and you're out.

 

There should be some limits. I do not think it would be appropriate to wear a Klan hood or t-shirt with obscenities on it, but an American Flag should never be banned.

 

I agree with you. I have no problem banning a Klan symbol or the Confederate flag (which is not a symbol of America - it's a symbol of a group of states that attempted to secede and lost). But this is the American flag we are talking about.

 

I also don't have a problem with kids wearing the Mexican colors or flags, although one wonders what point they are trying to make. But don't punish one set while letting the other get away with it.

 

Personally, I'd be tempted to wear the FRENCH flag and see if it got any reactions from the Mexican American students. More than likely, it wouldn't, which shows they have no clue about Mexican history.

Edited May 6, 2010 by grbeck

[Mark B. Morrow]

I agree with you. I have no problem banning a Klan symbol or the Confederate flag (which is not a symbol of America - it's a symbol of a group of states that attempted to secede and lost). But this is the American flag we are talking about.

 

I also don't have a problem with kids wearing the Mexican colors or flags, although one wonders what point they are trying to make. But don't punish one set while letting the other get away with it.

 

Personally, I'd be tempted to wear the FRENCH flag and see if it got any reactions from the Mexican American students. More than likely, it wouldn't, which shows they have no clue about Mexican history.

 

Sadly, you could wear a British Flag on July 4th and many would not get the point either.

[akirby]

There's one problem...the students sporting the Mexican national colors were not disciplined in any way. The administration was engaging in favortism, plain and simple, which is death to any school. Did the administration ask those students to remove what they were wearing? From what I've seen, no.

 

Wearing Mexican colors on Cinco de Mayo is a celebration of that holiday. Just like wearing the stars and stripes would be a celebration on July 4th. Or wearing French colors on Bastille day. There is no protest or controversy there.

 

For the record I would also not support a group of boys wearing Mexican flags on July 4th. This has nothing to do with the dress code - it has to do with intentionally trying to cause problems in school with premeditated group protests that just happened to involve clothing.

 

If you think threatening punishment is the way to handle a potentially dangerous situation in school then I pray that you're never a school administrator. The first option should be to diffuse the situation if possible, not just sit back and see what happens.

[chiefstang]

Wearing a flag on any other day would be an act of patriotism.

Wearing a flag individually at any time would be an act of patriotism.

Wearing a flag en masse with your buddies - outside of school - would be an act of patriotism.

 

Wearing a flag en masse with your buddies IN SCHOOL on CINCO DE MAYO is not an act of patriotism. It's a protest and social statement and that doesn't belong in school no matter who it's targeted at. This isn't about somebody being offended - it's about maintaining order with a bunch of walking hormone factories and I choose to give the administration some leeway in dealing with things like this even if they're being overly cautious.

 

Were schools wrong to ban gang colors?

 

<BITING TOUNGUE>

 

The Stars and Stripes are NOT gang colors.

 

In your efforts to stretch and try to make any kind of sense, you're just burying your head further up yer ass.....

 

Not alowed to wear red, white and blue IN AMERICA 'cause it's some bullshit Mexican holiday?!?!

 

WTF, dude. Just stop.

[mikem12]

They weren't kicked off campus for wearing them. They were kicked off for not complying with a direct order to remove them or turn them inside out.

 

These boys were purposely trying to cause problems with such a over the top display on cinco de mayo and that should not be tolerated in school.

 

It would be no different than wearing Japanese flags on D-day or confederate flags on MLK day, etc.

 

If they want to protest do it on a public street AFTER school, not during.

 

Why, because the school was celebrating Cynco De Mayo. It's not holiday here. Why do we Americans have to be denied the right to proclaim our patriotism. This is classic PC bullsh*t. This isn't Mexico yet.

[mikem12]

I would call it more akin to yelling "Fire!" inside a kiln. People are too sensitive and too afraid to offend anyone or let anyone be offended. Why would a Mexican-AMERICAN have any reason to be offended by an AMERICAN flag? Are Irish-Americans offended by American flags on St. Patrick's Day?

 

What people should find more offensive is that so many Mexican-Americans put their patriotism for Mexico ahead of their patriotism for the United States.

 

 

very well said.

[xmech2k]

News flash to all involved...

 

Very few people in Mexico care about Cinco de Mayo. So wearing a USA flag won't hurt our neighbors to the south one way or another.

 

Yep, made it so much funnier when one of my coworkers called it Gringo de Mayo! The funniest things are true!

 

P.S. The previous statement was not in any way meant to offend any gringos, it is only to point out how it is mostly gringos who mistakenly celebrate that 'holiday'. Probably something along the lines of being invented like Sweetest day, just now they can sell losts of booze, too....

[xmech2k]

Oh yeah, btw, my son is starting high school next year, and I was filling out the paperwork the other day. On the bottom of all the forms was the small print: 'XYZ school does not discriminate in any manner, including gender, religion race, nationality, etc...'

 

But of course, like EVERYTHING ELSE, ATMs, any business you call, everything...., all the paperwork was in english and, I'll give you 3 guesses.... OK, OK, spanish.

 

Was it in either my wife's or my native languages? No. (We're both immigrants. And I've also noticed how many news sources forget to put the illegal part in their headlines: "Arizona anti-immigrant law" No! It's Arizona's anti-ILLEGAL immigrant law.)

 

So, if it's OK to say Arizona's new law is racist(anti-Mexican), then is it racist to assume every immigrant speaks Spanish(Mexican)? I'd say yes.

 

But I digress. How does anyone know those kids don't wear American flag themed stuff all the time? A little assumption?

 

If the school dress code said nothing about it, I hope they sue the school. Will the ACLU support their right to free speech?

Edited May 7, 2010 by xmech2k

[suv_guy_19]

Many American's speak spanish, immigrant or not. A large part of America was populated by the Spanish before America existed. It is the second largest language group. It makes sense for forms to be available in the US in English and Spanish before any other language.