grbeck Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Think you're missing the point. Not everything made in America is crap. Far from it. But should we buy the American-made product if it worse than the foreign-built product just because it is built here? That's ludicrous. However, that's where the domestic auto industry was from the better part of 1980-2005. You're absolutely right. The domestics reformed because they had to, not because management (or the UAW) had any real change of heart. They were losing their shirts because their products were inferior, and an increasing number of buyers realized this. I drove a new Fiesta at the Carlisle All-Ford Nationals this weekend. It was a great car, but let's be honest - Ford wouldn't have built it if Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, etc., hadn't been eating its lunch. Ford cars today are so much better than they were even five years ago, and for that, we can thank foreign competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Think you're missing the point. Not everything made in America is crap. Far from it. But should we buy the American-made product if it worse than the foreign-built product just because it is built here? That's ludicrous. However, that's where the domestic auto industry was from the better part of 1980-2005. You missed my point - HE is the one who said OUR and CRAP together, implying that USA = crap. I tried to dispell that point by sarcastically targeting his bread and butter. We can't single out one industry and say it is crap, and then go to work thinking everyone else should support MY product or service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) And - what do you do for a living? I am sure - as YOU noted- it is crap, so I will avoid allowing any of my dollars to go your way. Hahaahahaha Have fun not paying your taxes then, the industry I work in supports what takes nearly half of each tax dollar you pay out to the Feds....:P In all seriousness, if you have a choice...your not going to buy a crappy item if you can get something better...perceived or not. Edited June 7, 2010 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 You missed my point - HE is the one who said OUR and CRAP together, implying that USA = crap. I tried to dispell that point by sarcastically targeting his bread and butter. We can't single out one industry and say it is crap, and then go to work thinking everyone else should support MY product or service. your totally taking it out context...am I going to support GM just because they are an American Auto manufacture? Not when I can get a Ford instead...:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 You missed my point - HE is the one who said OUR and CRAP together, implying that USA = crap. But USA-built does equal crap a lot of times. That's just the fact of the matter. In any industry there are winners and losers. No one should be expected to support the losers just because they are American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Hahaahahaha Have fun not paying your taxes then, the industry I work in supports what takes nearly half of each tax dollar you pay out to the Feds....:P In all seriousness, if you have a choice...your not going to buy a crappy item if you can get something better...perceived or not. Yes, you take us right back to the original point - The fact that most Americans perceive foreign brands (of anything) to be better than American brands is the greater problem that was referred to in the initial post. You should know this affects you - We are so broke due to the de-industrialization of our nation, that our government borrows money from our enemies to provide for our defense. This is surly unsustainable - you may want to think about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 due to the de-industrialization of our nation Our "de-industrialized" nation produces more factory goods now than it ever has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) But USA-built does equal crap a lot of times. That's just the fact of the matter. In any industry there are winners and losers. No one should be expected to support the losers just because they are American. Name one thing - equal in price - that is currently made better elsewhere than in the USA? Disclaimer: This cannot include something that relies on a climate, natural resources, or indigenous agricultural products that do not exist in North America. "Alot of times"? This should be easy for you. Edited June 7, 2010 by Kev-Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) Our "de-industrialized" nation produces more factory goods now than it ever has. Maybe so - but under foreign ownership. How do we explain our huge trade and government deficits? We, as a nation are broke, make no mistake about it. Edited June 7, 2010 by Kev-Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Name one thing - equal in price - that is currently made better elsewhere than in the USA? Disclaimer: This cannot include something that relies on a climate, natural resources, or indigenous agricultural products that do not exist in North America. "Alot of times"? This should be easy for you. Consumer electronics. Automobiles. Motorcycles. Trucks. Computers. Furniture. The list is really endless. I'm not going to say that *ALL* foreign consumer electronics are better than those built here. Or *ALL* automobiles. Or *ALL* Motorcycles. But there are plenty built overseas that are better than plenty of the ones built here. Get my point? The U.S. doesn't have a stranglehold on quality in too many market segments. Some products from some American companies might be the best. Other similar products from the same or different American companies might suck compared to what is available from foreign companies. Isn't it great that we have market choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Mabe so - but under foreign ownership. Yeah, just look at all those foreign-owned firms that comprise the Dow Industrials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Consumer electronics. Automobiles. Motorcycles. Trucks. Computers. Furniture. The list is really endless. I'm not going to say that *ALL* foreign consumer electronics are better than those built here. Or *ALL* automobiles. Or *ALL* Motorcycles. But there are plenty built overseas that are better than plenty of the ones built here. Get my point? The U.S. doesn't have a stranglehold on quality in too many market segments. Some products from some American companies might be the best. Other similar products from the same or different American companies might suck compared to what is available from foreign companies. Isn't it great that we have market choice? Pretty general - not what I had in mind. A Truck built by Paccar at the same price as Volvo - the Volvo is clearly better? How can you say that? I have heard first hand of USA built mainframe computers being pulled out of the flood caused by Hurricane Katrina fully operational! What computer is better than that? The way I see it, our manufactured products are generally the best in the world. Our services, like public schools, satellite/cable TV, mobile phone etc are what I think of when I think poor quality. Anyhow, I know this debate has happened here many times. - So, I know I can't win. You can have the last word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Yeah, just look at all those foreign-owned firms that comprise the Dow Industrials. Yeah, how has the Dow treated you in the last 10 years? Retiring tomorrow are you? Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Pretty general - not what I had in mind. I think we are just looking at it differently. I was looking at it in a general sense and not considering specifics. The only point I was trying to make was that the U.S. builds some cruddy products that other countries build better than we do and the U.S. builds some products better than any other country does. We shouldn't be expected to shell out our money to support those U.S. companies who don't build the best products. They definitely exist and there are a lot of them. We shouldn't support them simply out of some ass-backwards sense of patriotism. That's just rewarding failure. If two companies, one American, and one foreign, build similarly good products, should we support the American one? Sure! But that's just not always a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlRozzi Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 I guess they forgot to tell Nissan and Honda and if they told Toyota they must not have listened very well because Scion is not a success. I guess they forgot to tell MB and BMW that you can't succeed with only one brand. If having a low end and high end brand with another brand in between was a good idea then there would be more new companies doing that. They aren't and that's all the proof you need. Surely some new company would take advantage of all those smart "business analysts". Well, if you read my post they said 2 brands are great, 3 is best. Nissan and Honda have 2. Also, a one-brand company can make a profit. The analysts simply said they could never achieve the scale of multi-brand companies. Furthermore, Nissan is allied with Renault now, in case you didn't know. That gives them the brands Nissan, Infiniti, Renault, Dacia, Samsung. Daimler has allied with Renault/Nissan. Daimler is MB. Also, Daimler has Smart, Maybach and Freightlilner. BMW has 3 brands with Mini and RR. Honda also has motorcycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Niche brands like Mini and Scion and RR don't count. Anything that Mercury could sell can be sold just as easily as a top end Ford or a low end Lincoln without the overhead of carrying a 3rd brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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