daytrader millionaire Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Ask the union and look it up. It pissed off all of us in the late 90's when we found out the formula. Our district rep and plant chairman showed us at AAI the profit sharing formula a dozen years ago. It is based on North American CAR sales. They don't count trucks and SUV's because all the profit is built into them. We sell the most trucks and have for over 30 years, they always count on that. They based the formula on total profit, then took the truck & SUV factor out. If you sell more trucks, the higher the profit, but they multiply it among the car sales, so you have to sell a boatload of cars to have a high percentage to factor your check. It's crazy, but any union rep that has been around for a long time knows about the profit sharing factor. I will try to find it in our letters of understanding. I've seen the factor in print before, so it's out there. I don't know where you get your info from but its all wrong! Here is the formula, Company Benefits – Profit Sharing Plan Profit Sharing Plan The Profit Sharing Plan was first negotiated between Ford and the UAW in 1982. It provides a source of income for employees which allows them to share in the growth and success of the company resulting from: • Increased efficiency • Improved product quality • Operating competitiveness In the past 24 years: • About $5.3 billion has been paid to Ford hourly employees under the plan. • An eligible employee would have received, on average, a total of $48,439 over this period (see page 25). Eligibility Full-time U.S. hourly employees are eligible, including certain employees who are terminated during the year. Total Profit Share Determination Total profit share is paid from the first dollar of profits and is determined by summing the following: • 6% of profits up to 1.8% of sales, plus • 8% of profits between 1.8% and 2.3% of sales, plus • 10% of profits between 2.3% and 4.6% of sales, plus • 14% of profits between 4.6% and 6.9% of sales, plus • 17% of profits that exceed 6.9% of sales Profits and Sales: • Include only those applicable to defined U.S. operations. • Profits are before-tax (except Ford Credit) and before management bonuses and profit sharing. Employee's Profit Share Determination Individual profit sharing amounts are determined as follows: (1)Hourly Allocated Profit Share = Total Profit Share x Number of Eligible Hourly Employees Number of Eligible Hourly and Salaried Employees (2)Profit Sharing Percentage Factor = Hourly Allocated Profit Share / Total Eligible Pay Of All Eligible Hourly Employees (3)Employee's Profit Share = Profit Sharing Percentage Factor x Employee's Eligible Pay Distribution is made not later than two and one-half months following the end of the Plan year. Here is a article explaining how much was paid out total divided by total employees which was 160000 at the time. We have only 40589 employees on the rolls today which would divide the pot and they made more profit this year!!! T Profit-Sharing Record at Ford Special to the New York Times Published: February 22, 1988 DETROIT, Feb. 21 — The Ford Motor Company said Friday that it would distribute $635 million to its United States employees in what it said was the largest profit-sharing payout ever made by an American company. About 160,000 workers who are eligible will receive an average of $3,700 each, up from last year's record $2,100, the company said. Skilled workers with substantial overtime could receive as much as $5,000, said Tom Foote, a Ford spokesman. ''Over all, it's larger than most people expected,'' he said. Last Thursday, the company reported a net income of $4.6 billion for 1987, the largest ever for an American automobile manufacturer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 (edited) Ask the union and look it up. It pissed off all of us in the late 90's when we found out the formula. Our district rep and plant chairman showed us at AAI the profit sharing formula a dozen years ago. It is based on North American CAR sales. They don't count trucks and SUV's because all the profit is built into them. We sell the most trucks and have for over 30 years, they always count on that. They based the formula on total profit, then took the truck & SUV factor out. If you sell more trucks, the higher the profit, but they multiply it among the car sales, so you have to sell a boatload of cars to have a high percentage to factor your check. It's crazy, but any union rep that has been around for a long time knows about the profit sharing factor. I will try to find it in our letters of understanding. I've seen the factor in print before, so it's out there. Volume III Section 6 Part B(page 71) Definitions 3. "Automotive Related" shall mean, with respect to and Subsidiary or Affiliate, any such Subsidiary or Affiliate that derives more than fifty (50) percent of its revenues from the manufacture or assembly of motor vehicles or components for motor vehicles. Are you sure you are not thinking about the fact that the formula excludes profits gained through Ford Motor Credit ? Granted I briefly scanned through the language that deals with profit sharing, but i saw nothing that stated car sales over truck/suv sales. Edited November 18, 2010 by lquidspine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertyuiop Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 (edited) I dont understand what all of the fuss is about.................. We all got profit sharing last year based on the formula that has been unchanged since as far back as I can remember. What has changed since March 2010? To answer your question' date=' nothing. Profit Sharing was changed, albeit only slightly, in the 2007 agreement. [b']The only thing[/b] that was changed is that "profits" no longer include the profits of Ford Motor Credit. Other than that, the formula has been unchanged since 1982, when the program first began. He can't because he's wrong. Profit sharing is based on profits from North American operations which includes Canada' date='Mexico and the United States.[/quote'] In reference to the amount of sales, those from Canada and Mexico are excluded from the definition of "sales", which is clearly stated in the language. Only sales from the US are calculated, which, by nature, would automatically exclude profits from those two countries as well. There is no text in the contract language that allows the company to base profits solely off of car sales - any business unit deriving a minimum of 50% of its revenues from the manufacture or assembly of vehicles or vehicle components is included in the calculation. This includes ALL assembly plants in the US, including the ones that build cars AND trucks. The company must go by the formula as stated in the contract to pay out the profit share - any calculation used other than the one stipulated to in the contract can be reviewed by the umpire. According to my "basic" calculations (I'm no accountant, but I know my fair share of math), which go by the formula stated earlier, These are my assumptions going through the rest of the year, based on how the company is performing: Total Profits (all of North America): $5.8 billion Total US profits: $4.4 Billion Hourly Profit Share total amount: $675 Million Approximate Eligible Hourly Pay: $3.68 Billion Percentage Factor: 18.34% If you had overtime this year, estimate how much you had. Take the approximate number of hours you had and cut it in half. Then multiply this number times your rate of pay. Subtract this number from your gross pay for the year and multiply the result by the percentage factor. For a person who had $60,000 of eligible pay, the profit share for that individual at the above percentage factor would be $11,004.00. This goes with my previous post earlier this year which mirrors almost exactly the result shown above. Remember, these are only assumptions, but numbers don't lie. The only thing that could throw this entire calculation off is if Ford decides to pull off an OTC (If you're wondering what that is, it means one-time charge). Even then, it shouldn't reduce the percentage factor by more than two to three percentage points. There's not much that the company can write off other than lost production time, bad debts, or other unforeseen circumstances, which could show their ugly face any second, but so far have decided to keep hiding. Qwerty Edited November 18, 2010 by qwertyuiop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytrader millionaire Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 To answer your question, nothing. Profit Sharing was changed, albeit only slightly, in the 2007 agreement. The only thing that was changed is that "profits" no longer include the profits of Ford Motor Credit. Other than that, the formula has been unchanged since 1982, when the program first began. In reference to the amount of sales, those from Canada and Mexico are excluded from the definition of "sales", which is clearly stated in the language. Only sales from the US are calculated, which, by nature, would automatically exclude profits from those two countries as well. There is no text in the contract language that allows the company to base profits solely off of car sales - any business unit deriving a minimum of 50% of its revenues from the manufacture or assembly of vehicles or vehicle components is included in the calculation. This includes ALL assembly plants in the US, including the ones that build cars AND trucks. The company must go by the formula as stated in the contract to pay out the profit share - any calculation used other than the one stipulated to in the contract can be reviewed by the umpire. According to my "basic" calculations (I'm no accountant, but I know my fair share of math), which go by the formula stated earlier, These are my assumptions going through the rest of the year, based on how the company is performing: Total Profits (all of North America): $5.8 billion Total US profits: $4.4 Billion Hourly Profit Share total amount: $675 Million Approximate Eligible Hourly Pay: $3.68 Billion Percentage Factor: 18.34% If you had overtime this year, estimate how much you had. Take the approximate number of hours you had and cut it in half. Then multiply this number times your rate of pay. Subtract this number from your gross pay for the year and multiply the result by the percentage factor. For a person who had $60,000 of eligible pay, the profit share for that individual at the above percentage factor would be $11,004.00. This goes with my previous post earlier this year which mirrors almost exactly the result shown above. Remember, these are only assumptions, but numbers don't lie. The only thing that could throw this entire calculation off is if Ford decides to pull off an OTC (If you're wondering what that is, it means one-time charge). Even then, it shouldn't reduce the percentage factor by more than two to three percentage points. There's not much that the company can write off other than lost production time, bad debts, or other unforeseen circumstances, which could show their ugly face any second, but so far have decided to keep hiding. Qwerty Well said that is around the figure I was coming up with to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downriverrat Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Ask the union and look it up. It pissed off all of us in the late 90's when we found out the formula. Our district rep and plant chairman showed us at AAI the profit sharing formula a dozen years ago. It is based on North American CAR sales. They don't count trucks and SUV's because all the profit is built into them. We sell the most trucks and have for over 30 years, they always count on that. They based the formula on total profit, then took the truck & SUV factor out. If you sell more trucks, the higher the profit, but they multiply it among the car sales, so you have to sell a boatload of cars to have a high percentage to factor your check. It's crazy, but any union rep that has been around for a long time knows about the profit sharing factor. I will try to find it in our letters of understanding. I've seen the factor in print before, so it's out there. I thought Auto Alliance International / AAI was grouped in the Asian-Pacific profit section?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deflep1 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 To answer your question, nothing. Profit Sharing was changed, albeit only slightly, in the 2007 agreement. The only thing that was changed is that "profits" no longer include the profits of Ford Motor Credit. Other than that, the formula has been unchanged since 1982, when the program first began. In reference to the amount of sales, those from Canada and Mexico are excluded from the definition of "sales", which is clearly stated in the language. Only sales from the US are calculated, which, by nature, would automatically exclude profits from those two countries as well. There is no text in the contract language that allows the company to base profits solely off of car sales - any business unit deriving a minimum of 50% of its revenues from the manufacture or assembly of vehicles or vehicle components is included in the calculation. This includes ALL assembly plants in the US, including the ones that build cars AND trucks. The company must go by the formula as stated in the contract to pay out the profit share - any calculation used other than the one stipulated to in the contract can be reviewed by the umpire. According to my "basic" calculations (I'm no accountant, but I know my fair share of math), which go by the formula stated earlier, These are my assumptions going through the rest of the year, based on how the company is performing: Total Profits (all of North America): $5.8 billion Total US profits: $4.4 Billion Hourly Profit Share total amount: $675 Million Approximate Eligible Hourly Pay: $3.68 Billion Percentage Factor: 18.34% If you had overtime this year, estimate how much you had. Take the approximate number of hours you had and cut it in half. Then multiply this number times your rate of pay. Subtract this number from your gross pay for the year and multiply the result by the percentage factor. For a person who had $60,000 of eligible pay, the profit share for that individual at the above percentage factor would be $11,004.00. This goes with my previous post earlier this year which mirrors almost exactly the result shown above. Remember, these are only assumptions, but numbers don't lie. The only thing that could throw this entire calculation off is if Ford decides to pull off an OTC (If you're wondering what that is, it means one-time charge). Even then, it shouldn't reduce the percentage factor by more than two to three percentage points. There's not much that the company can write off other than lost production time, bad debts, or other unforeseen circumstances, which could show their ugly face any second, but so far have decided to keep hiding. Qwerty I asked the union and management today, they both said profit sharing is factored by car sales, (not trucks) it's an industry wide thing. The union said they remember paperwork on it explaining it, but it's not listed in the letters of understanding. They said Bill Ford talked about in an interview, and it's been discussed by the media, but only the company actually lists the exact formula ( not everything is listed in the contract books) We were told this in the late 90's at a town hall meeting. A handful of people on my line remember it clearly. I'll try to pin down where the info on it is available, the company says they all know it to be a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTP WORKER Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 (edited) I asked the union and management today, they both said profit sharing is factored by car sales, (not trucks) it's an industry wide thing. The union said they remember paperwork on it explaining it, but it's not listed in the letters of understanding. They said Bill Ford talked about in an interview, and it's been discussed by the media, but only the company actually lists the exact formula ( not everything is listed in the contract books) We were told this in the late 90's at a town hall meeting. A handful of people on my line remember it clearly. I'll try to pin down where the info on it is available, the company says they all know it to be a fact. Maybe the trucks that are not included are the ones that are not covered under "light trucks". Back when we got the big checks we were making three shifts of Expeditions and Navigators, hence the large profits. I find it hard to believe that all that profit that Ford made back then that contributed to our nice bonuses came from just Taurus's and the like. Edited November 18, 2010 by sez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcapitated Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Do TFTor FLOWBACKS and the like get a profit sharing check as well? Who is eligable & who is not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motiontf Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 (edited) Do TFTor FLOWBACKS and the like get a profit sharing check as well? Who is eligable & who is not? Yes, just because your a TFT (Ford employee loaned to another plant) or have flowed back to your home plant your still a Ford employee.. Edited November 19, 2010 by motiontf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 I asked the union and management today, they both said profit sharing is factored by car sales, (not trucks) it's an industry wide thing. The union said they remember paperwork on it explaining it, but it's not listed in the letters of understanding. They said Bill Ford talked about in an interview, and it's been discussed by the media, but only the company actually lists the exact formula ( not everything is listed in the contract books) We were told this in the late 90's at a town hall meeting. A handful of people on my line remember it clearly. I'll try to pin down where the info on it is available, the company says they all know it to be a fact. I have to say that that is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this site....trucks don't count....please.....people have stupid opinions all the time....but this was just printed for you in black and white and you disagree...did you just hire in?....find someone with 20 or 30 years of service and ask them your questions....because someone is feeding you a lot of BS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertyuiop Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 (edited) Once again, trucks DO count towards the profit share. I'm not sure as to who, where or what you are referring to, but they (or whoever they are talking to) are misinformed. National Agreement, Volume III, Page 72 (definitions): 8. "Domestic" shall mean, with respect to any Consolidated Subsidiary, Unconsolidated Subsidiary or Affiliate that is incorporated, and derives more than 50% of its revenue from activities, carried on or located, within the states of the United States. Page 76 (definitions): 11. "Ford" shall mean Ford Motor Company, a Delaware Corporation. 16. "Profits" shall mean, for any plan year, the Income (Loss) Before Income Taxes of Ford and its Consolidated Subsidiaries (excluding Ford Motor Credit Company and its partially or wholly-owned subsidiaries) for such plan year.... Page 79 (definitions): 18. "Sales" shall mean, for any Plan Year, the Sales of Ford and its Consolidated Subsidiaries (excluding Ford Motor Credit Company and its partially or wholly-owned subsidiaries) for such plan year, less the sum of the following: ( a ) The sales for such plan year of (i) all Domestic Consolidated Subsidiaries that are not included in US operations, and (ii) all Consolidated Subsidiaries that are not Domestic Consolidated Subsidiaries; and ( b ) the portion of the Sales of Ford and its Consolidated Subsidiaries for such plan year attributable to branches, located outside of the continental United States, Alaska and Hawaii, of Ford and its Consolidated Subsidiaries (other than all Consolidated Subsidiaries that are not included in US operations); plus ( c ) the Sales for such plan year of Ford to subsidiaries and branches not included in US operations... This is the actual contract language. Nowhere in the above does it state trucks are not included. In order for trucks not to be included in the share, they would have to be built outside of the United States, and IIRC only the Super Duties are built in Mexico. Everything else is built here, which would therefore INCLUDE the sales in the profit share calculation. Edited November 20, 2010 by qwertyuiop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 (edited) One would think we should get a nice check...fewer workers and a nice profit for Ford, but I'm sure they will come up with something to squash all hope. YOU KNOW THATS RIGHT! Edited November 20, 2010 by Fatso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Once again, trucks DO count towards the profit share. I'm not sure as to who, where or what you are referring to, but they (or whoever they are talking to) are misinformed. National Agreement, Volume III, This is the actual contract language. Nowhere in the above does it state trucks are not included. In order for trucks not to be included in the share, they would have to be built outside of the United States, and IIRC only the Super Duties are built in Mexico. Everything else is built here, which would therefore INCLUDE the sales in the profit share calculation. You are right. Its amazing to me the stupidity of some of these responses. The formula is as its written, nothing more, nothing less. Grow up and educate yourself people............................ Good job querty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnm Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 (edited) Is it possible that in the 90's when we were getting those fat profit sharing checks, that people may remember being told that truck sales dont count, because the f150s were being built in Canada at the time? Edited November 21, 2010 by mnm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hec Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Maybe the trucks that are not included are the ones that are not covered under "light trucks". Back when we got the big checks we were making three shifts of Expeditions and Navigators, hence the large profits. I find it hard to believe that all that profit that Ford made back then that contributed to our nice bonuses came from just Taurus's and the like. Don't forget to stop at labor relations this week to get your FREE TURKEY VOUCHER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pullthecord Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Don't forget to stop at labor relations this week to get your FREE TURKEY VOUCHER Free turkeys , it's about time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcapitated Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Don't forget to stop at labor relations this week to get your FREE TURKEY VOUCHER I fell for that my 1st year. Labor sent me to the security desk so i looked like a dumbass twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Is it possible that in the 90's when we were getting those fat profit sharing checks, that people may remember being told that truck sales dont count, because the f150s were being built in Canada at the time? My old F150 was built in Norfolk....someone who worked in the 90's KNOW better....I think the difference is old timers didn't just repeat what some jerk tells them...we looked it up ourselves....good luck...some of you really need it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SU-FI Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 My old F150 was built in Norfolk....someone who worked in the 90's KNOW better....I think the difference is old timers didn't just repeat what some jerk tells them...we looked it up ourselves....good luck...some of you really need it fGlad you used the word "didnt" when referring to old timers, because now they "don't" do that, they refer to language from god knows when. and in my experience are the ones that start most of the rumors i hear going around. not to mention all the doom and gloom stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uawxlt Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Don't forget to stop at labor relations this week to get your FREE TURKEY VOUCHER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 fGlad you used the word "didnt" when referring to old timers, because now they "don't" do that, they refer to language from god knows when. and in my experience are the ones that start most of the rumors i hear going around. not to mention all the doom and gloom stories. An old timer to me is someone who hired in in the mid 70's ....these guys should be retired...If you know of any with that seniority, they would be good sources of info.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordguy61mi Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Don't forget to stop at labor relations this week to get your FREE TURKEY VOUCHER I actually worked at a UAW plant that made chemicals back in the 80s and we used to get a free turkey voucher every year. We also got our birthday off with pay. They closed the doors in 1989. Crazy, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pullthecord Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 An old timer to me is someone who hired in in the mid 70's ....these guys should be retired...If you know of any with that seniority, they would be good sources of info.... You can't blame em for working too long. Maybe they don't want Ford to pay them their pensions (more money for Mullaly), I'm surrounded by 40 year seniority guys, and tryin to get a point across to these know-it -alls is like explaining global warming to a republican. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 You can't blame em for working too long. Maybe they don't want Ford to pay them their pensions (more money for Mullaly), I'm surrounded by 40 year seniority guys, and tryin to get a point across to these know-it -alls is like explaining global warming to a republican. I can read what the problem is....from your post....your supposed to listen to the older guys....not try to get YOUR point across....In my life...I have found the wisest of us are the ones with the most experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 You can't blame em for working too long. Maybe they don't want Ford to pay them their pensions (more money for Mullaly), I'm surrounded by 40 year seniority guys, and tryin to get a point across to these know-it -alls is like explaining global warming to a republican. We can not know everyones situation, some have their reasons for staying as long as they do. Honestly with VEBA health care cuts pensions underfunded I really can not blame them for staying. Most go get a job after retirement anyway, so i really can not blame someone for wanting to continue to work for good pay and up to this point reliable benefits. Not to mention the best reason to keep the "old timers" around (besides the knowledge of a union when we did not give everything away) is less entry level workers for the time being until we can fix the entry level language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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