St. Petersburg goes w/ mass purchase of Crown Vic

[armadamaster]

ST. PETERSBURG — The Crown Victoria gets such poor gas mileage that Ford is discontinuing the popular model this year.

 

But that didn't stop the City Council on Thursday from ordering a curtain call, agreeing to buy 86 Crown Vics at a total cost of $2.1 million.

 

The purchase of the cars, used widely by national law enforcement, will replace 61 Crown Vics that have reached the end of the line. It also will provide 25 more cars for officers who don't already have take-home vehicles. The cars are 2011 models.

 

With the purchase of a tried-and-true model, the city avoids a debacle like last year when the newly ordered Chevy Impalas turned out to be too small to provide space for the cage that separates officers and prisoners.

 

Still, council member Karl Nurse said the purchase of the Crown Vics seemed to violate the spirit of an executive order by former Mayor Rick Baker, which aimed at buying city vehicles that are fuel-efficient.

 

"The Crown Vic is the least efficient vehicle in its class," Nurse said.

 

In 2009, when the City Council approved more than $1.1 million to buy 47 Chevy Impalas, a lighter car, for the police department, Nurse declared it a triumph for the environment.

 

"This is the first time that we've followed the mayor's order to buy the most fuel-efficient vehicle available," Nurse said then.

 

The Police Department all along had maintained that it bought the Impalas because they were cheaper, not as a sop for environmentalists. Mayor Bill Foster said the Impalas were an experiment.

 

"We'd prefer not to experiment again with those," he said. "The Crown Vic isn't the most fuel-efficient, but it's the most fuel-efficient that meets their needs."

 

Foster said Baker's executive order said the city should buy fuel-efficient vehicles "when reasonably feasible." The Crown Vic meets city standards because it's the most practical vehicle available to the police.

 

Considered to be durable, affordable, and a high-performing vehicle, the Crown Vic is popular with police and taxicab fleet managers. Other models will be considered in the future, said police Chief Chuck Harmon. He said the Impalas were only getting one more mile per gallon.

 

According to fueleconomy.gov, the Crown Victoria gets 16 mpg in the city and 24 on the highway. An Impala with a 3.9 liter engine gets 17 mpg in the city and 27 on the highway.

 

"We obviously know now the pitfalls with the Impalas," Harmon said. "What I still promise is that we'll look at the Chevy (Caprice) and the Dodge (Charger) when we do a comprehensive look."

 

Harmon said the Impalas are being used by the department, just not by anyone with patrol duties.

 

Harmon had the full support of council members, who mostly applauded the decision.

 

"You guys have to get what you need," council member Bill Dudley told Harmon. "I'm not saying we should get gas hogs, but you should get what will protect the officers. I think the Impala looks like a police car with training wheels. It's so small. Crown Vics are the standard. You need to do what you need to do."

 

 

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernme...ol-cars/1143970

[Topgun]

STAP closure has been extended 2 weeks now to mid September.

[rscalzo]

STAP closure has been extended 2 weeks now to mid September.

 

24,400 per unit????? Someone's getting some kickback in that deal unless there are a bunch of spare parts thrown in.

[Topgun]

24,400 per unit????? Someone's getting some kickback in that deal unless there are a bunch of spare parts thrown in.

Ontario Provincial Police here have ordered 600 Interceptors with $8,100 discount on each one. Seems to be the norm here on any big Ford you buy now.

[rscalzo]

Ontario Provincial Police here have ordered 600 Interceptors with $8,100 discount on each one. Seems to be the norm here on any big Ford you buy now.

 

My cost 20,4K out the door.

[ford4v429]

I may still sound like a broken record, but...if they put the EB 3.5 in that chassis they could have a lock on the market still- even if they upped the price to very profitable.

I still think the reason for pulling the plug instead of investing a penny in updates was that the car was too durable. they should be proud of that, not embarassed by beancounters saying its cutting into taurus sales or whatnot. For its purpose, it is far better than the checker cab was for decades- it held up better than anything, and now that technology has already been developed for other platforms, it could be shared freely with this 'long paid for' design and make it just as fuel efficient as anything else out there- plus with more power.

Fords done a lot right lately, but not putting a penny into this or the ranger I still feel as a 'ford guy' to be a short-sighted mistake. put a 56 F100 body(and 4 place panel truck) body on the tried and true(and paid for) Ranger chassis, it would sell like hotcakes, put the EB 3.5 in the panther, it wouldnt be seen as a gashog(by 1 measly mpg?) anymore and charge profitable prices for it, it would still sell...

 

would love to see a crown vic pit a new interceptor, AND vice-versa...bet the interceptor would be on the trailer after one, where the crown vic would do it all day with a bent fender...time will tell, but a unibody in severe duty just feels wrong...they need and deserve a truck in a car body, like the crown vic.

[rscalzo]

they could have a lock on the market

 

What market? The market for the CV has been fleet sales. That market has been deeply cut into by Chrysler and soon GM. The PI market no longer looks for high powered motors. They not look for the included systems to operate the equipment used in the vehicles. We need space and electronics to run laptops, scanners, digital video, printers and more. Just look at the percentage of vehicles ordered with the Hemi vs. the V-6 in the Charger.

[MIAMI-DADE]

I still think the reason for pulling the plug instead of investing a penny in updates was that the car was too durable. they should be proud of that, not embarassed by beancounters saying its cutting into taurus sales or whatnot. For its purpose, it is far better than the checker cab was for decades- it held up better than anything, and now that technology has already been developed for other platforms, it could be shared freely with this 'long paid for' design and make it just as fuel efficient as anything else out there- plus with more power.

 

I agree with this....I have said all along they are pulling the plug cause the Panthers last too long...What other car can go 400K miles with just normal Ford maintenance...Miami Dade PD still has a sprinkling of 95-97 CVPI'S still on patrol.

[rscalzo]

I agree with this....I have said all along they are pulling the plug cause the Panthers last too long...What other car can go 400K miles with just normal Ford maintenance...Miami Dade PD still has a sprinkling of 95-97 CVPI'S still on patrol.

 

With normal Ford maintence we got about 125K before the vehicles became unrelieable in our urban use. By that time the interiors were falling apart and the seats were beyond any chance of being rebuilt. My best friend recently retired as a Deputy Chief from MD PD. They don't have any 95 PI on routine patrol.

 

Even when transfered to a civilian department after we gave them up they could maybe hit 175k. But they were certainly not in a critical area that required safe operation under severe cercumstances. We transfered them because no one had any interest in buying them even at the usual going price of $500 or less.None could come close to qualifying for taxi use under existing regulations.

 

The NJ state Police who were large users of the PI in a highway enviroment turned them over at 100k or sooner. Recommended usefull life is 100k to 125K. At that point maintence becomes an expensive issue.

 

As far as a long lasting car, neither the Ford or former GM Caprice lasted any longer than the other.

[MIAMI-DADE]

With normal Ford maintence we got about 125K before the vehicles became unrelieable in our urban use. By that time the interiors were falling apart and the seats were beyond any chance of being rebuilt. My best friend recently retired as a Deputy Chief from MD PD. They don't have any 95 PI on routine patrol.

 

Even when transfered to a civilian department after we gave them up they could maybe hit 175k. But they were certainly not in a critical area that required safe operation under severe cercumstances. We transfered them because no one had any interest in buying them even at the usual going price of $500 or less.None could come close to qualifying for taxi use under existing regulations.

 

The NJ state Police who were large users of the PI in a highway enviroment turned them over at 100k or sooner. Recommended usefull life is 100k to 125K. At that point maintence becomes an expensive issue.

 

As far as a long lasting car, neither the Ford or former GM Caprice lasted any longer than the other.

 

Sorry I did not mean in Leo use....In Leo use it's generally 150K miles.....It used to be 100K miles till budget cuts moved it to 150K miles....These are take home cars and serviced every 3-5K miles regularly.....Then they go to taxi duty or kids wanting to look like cops....Alot of kids down here buy CVPI'S with the push bars and antenna farms.

 

The 400K miles I meant is the private car service guys and for people [like me] who do alot of highway driving...I have been in some yellow cabs down here with 400K miles on them and all those CVPI'S did Leo duty first before they go to them....The bulk of those cars were former F.H.P. cars.

[rscalzo]

Sorry I did not mean in Leo use....In Leo use it's generally 150K miles.....It used to be 100K miles till budget cuts moved it to 150K miles....These are take home cars and serviced every 3-5K miles regularly.....Then they go to taxi duty or kids wanting to look like cops....Alot of kids down here buy CVPI'S with the push bars and antenna farms.

 

The 400K miles I meant is the private car service guys and for people [like me] who do alot of highway driving...I have been in some yellow cabs down here with 400K miles on them and all those CVPI'S did Leo duty first before they go to them....The bulk of those cars were former F.H.P. cars.

 

A private vehicle taken care of can easily go that far. I've seen some of my own people's personal cars go well over K. One was a Toyota although it needed some major engine work. But the trips were 90 miles each way on highways. My wife had a early Chev. S10 used when she was in sales. 100k and the brakes were still factory. Much depends on the type of driving. We get maybe 15k from brake pads. Tires go 20k and the only approved tire is the Goodyear. Urban driving kills the cars. Eight hours use, maybe fifty miles. Stop and go constantly. Now with computers the cars became the office and reports are done while the car idles off road. That is one reason new LE vehicles put more efforts into the interiors and operating systems.One of the smartest moves was the factory dual battery system. that would have saved us a lot of grief over the years. Newer lighting systems save on current draw but all the new electronics being installed really tax the system. Another great feature is the centralized networking being installed. that's a great idea as every new electronic is based on a usb connection.

[SHERIFF]

Who told these people a prisoner cage will not fit in an Impala?

 

Deparrtments nationwide use the new Impalas with cages every day.

[MIAMI-DADE]

Who told these people a prisoner cage will not fit in an Impala?

 

Departments nationwide use the new Impalas with cages every day.

 

The City of Miami made a special purchase a couple of years to get around 400 Impalas as they got that batch of cars so cheap they could not resist due to major budget issues....The rest of cars are CVPI'S....The bulk of the Impalas have cages in them but it's a real tight fit for the bad guy back there.

 

I think it was a smart move that ST.Peterburg decided to get the CVPI'S....At least they can put off buying all new equipment for awhile...Hopefully other agencies will do the same thing but with real bad budget cuts [like down by me] that might be hard to do...Heard FHP put off buying cars for a few months.

[SHERIFF]

.... but it's a real tight fit for the bad guy back there.

 

 

The prisoners are not suppose to be comfortable.

 

That's why Ford never put a wet bar in the back seat!

[Sgt1411]

Ontario Provincial Police here have ordered 600 Interceptors with $8,100 discount on each one. Seems to be the norm here on any big Ford you buy now.

 

Top Gun do you work inside STAP?

 

If so thanks for all your work putting together the CVPI. I toured the STAP last year and was blown away. The car rack that pulls the bodies out and puts them on the line was wild. I even got to watch a CVPI get painted.

 

I drive a 2011 CVPI 44 hrs a week, and literally trust my life to it because I do stuff most people wouldn't normally do with a car.

 

But those new Federally mandated seats with the forward mounted headrests are KILLING ME......safer yes but comfortable no.

 

 

 

[Sgt1411]

The City of Miami made a special purchase a couple of years to get around 400 Impalas as they got that batch of cars so cheap they could not resist due to major budget issues....The rest of cars are CVPI'S....The bulk of the Impalas have cages in them but it's a real tight fit for the bad guy back there.

 

I think it was a smart move that ST.Peterburg decided to get the CVPI'S....At least they can put off buying all new equipment for awhile...Hopefully other agencies will do the same thing but with real bad budget cuts [like down by me] that might be hard to do...Heard FHP put off buying cars for a few months.

 

You should go to the Police Fleet Expo in St Louis this year and hear how many LE Agencies are getting rid of their Impalas.

 

In Canada the RCMP took them all off the road due to concerns over airbag compliance and laptops.

 

What's Miami going to do with the new Caprice being built in Australia?

 

 

 

[Bob Rosadini]

Top Gun do you work inside STAP?

 

If so thanks for all your work putting together the CVPI. I toured the STAP last year and was blown away. The car rack that pulls the bodies out and puts them on the line was wild. I even got to watch a CVPI get painted.

 

I drive a 2011 CVPI 44 hrs a week, and literally trust my life to it because I do stuff most people wouldn't normally do with a car.

 

But those new Federally mandated seats with the forward mounted headrests are KILLING ME......safer yes but comfortable no.

Topgun is a retired STAP employee. Check out my Avatar-its a 2007 Sport that I ordered in August of 06. When I placed the order, I did a post on this site telling the folks at STAP to build me another good one like the one it was replacing (200,000 miles). Topgun responded and asked for the vin which I provided. Well Topgun -and UTE another STAP worker kept me posted. Topgun had my name on the window spec sheet and actually signed it with a message inside the trunk. My buddies all got a kick out of that when I would relate that story and show them the signature on the trunk lid. Great car- I added a set of Flowmasters and installed the Hella driving lights in the fascia when I got it. I miss it. It was a Company car and hit the mandatory mileage figure. I replaced it with a new SHO- great car but like I said, I do miss the CV, that V-8 growl, thx to the Flowmasters -and yes, the fact that 8 out of 10 drivers would move out of the hammer lane when they saw me coming in their rearview!

[Sgt1411]

Topgun is a retired STAP employee. Check out my Avatar-its a 2007 Sport that I ordered in August of 06. When I placed the order, I did a post on this site telling the folks at STAP to build me another good one like the one it was replacing (200,000 miles). Topgun responded and asked for the vin which I provided. Well Topgun -and UTE another STAP worker kept me posted. Topgun had my name on the window spec sheet and actually signed it with a message inside the trunk. My buddies all got a kick out of that when I would relate that story and show them the signature on the trunk lid. Great car- I added a set of Flowmasters and installed the Hella driving lights in the fascia when I got it. I miss it. It was a Company car and hit the mandatory mileage figure. I replaced it with a new SHO- great car but like I said, I do miss the CV, that V-8 growl, thx to the Flowmasters -and yes, the fact that 8 out of 10 drivers would move out of the hammer lane when they saw me coming in their rearview!

 

Thats very cool.....

 

 

 

[jpd80]

You should go to the Police Fleet Expo in St Louis this year and hear how many LE Agencies are getting rid of their Impalas.

 

In Canada the RCMP took them all off the road due to concerns over airbag compliance and laptops.

 

What's Miami going to do with the new Caprice being built in Australia?

Police cars in Australia are much different to your vehicles in north America, the state and federal police only keep them for 40,000 klm and then sell them at government auctions where people can get a great deal, the police equipment is not very intrusive and is easily removed, most vehicles go on to be taxis and get way over 300,000 miles on the engine and gearbox without failure.

 

 

 

Most of the police vehicles are Commodore or Falcon with a few V6 Camry (Aurion) sprinkled in. Standard units are V6 or I-6 for the Falcon and highway patrol are 6.0 V8 Commodore and I-6 Turbo Falcons

 

 

 

 

 

 

Handling prisoners can be accomplished two ways, either in back seat for short hops or in police Divisional (Divvy) Van, a Falcon/Commodore pick up with a cargo box on the back for complete isolation of prisoners form police. That is the safest and most effective way to transfer prisoners.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2011 by jpd80

[rscalzo]

Funky graphics. I had to pull teeth to get the graphics changed on our units. Nothing fancy and pretty much standard for most cars in this country.

 

We buy all of our cars through a state contract system so I couldn't get "personilized" service but that would be great. Our last two CV units are due next month. After that, who knows what we will get.

 

This was my assigned unit right before I retired. I hated that thing. Getting in and out was a pain in the butt.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2011 by rscalzo

[MIAMI-DADE]

Funky graphics. I had to pull teeth to get the graphics changed on our units. Nothing fancy and pretty much standard for most cars in this country.

 

We buy all of our cars through a state contract system so I couldn't get "personilized" service but that would be great. Our last two CV units are due next month. After that, who knows what we will get.

 

This was my assigned unit right before I retired. I hated that thing. Getting in and out was a pain in the butt.

 

 

 

The Leos in Broward County really like the Durango...They still have some floating around down here...They said it has plenty of room for them and they like how they handle...The only SUV I see being ordered in Miami Dade,Broward and Palm Beach County now is the Tahoe.

[MIAMI-DADE]

What's Miami going to do with the new Caprice being built in Australia?

 

I doubt I will ever see the new Caprice in the City of Miami since 90% of all driving is stop and go and they smash up cars daily... The Miami Dade County PD just put a sprinkling of 2010 V6 Chargers on the road...Not sure if they will keep ordering them.

[rscalzo]

The Leos in Broward County really like the Durango...They still have some floating around down here...They said it has plenty of room for them and they like how they handle...The only SUV I see being ordered in Miami Dade,Broward and Palm Beach County now is the Tahoe.

 

To me, entry was a pain. The roofline was cut way down low. It seemed like I had to duck down to get in. Once in, it seemed huge. I never wanted it but they bought a bunch and I was assigned one. For the few times I actually got out of the office, I rather would have used my Explorer. But due to liability issues, they were concerned about that.