Mark8LSC CE0464 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I know you can get Crown Vics and Transit Connects with a CNG prep package, but is Ford going to offer a CNG vehicle complete from the factory? Sure would be nice to fill up at home overnight and save 50% in fuel costs while I'm at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I expect that Ford can't install CNG as reliably/cheaply as an aftermarket specialist.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 If they do offer it, I suspect that it will only be on commercial and fleet units. With the gas V10 going into the F650/F750 for 2012, if Ford does offer a CNG (or LNG) factory package it will be on one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Ford has no plans to "factory install" CNG or LPG. The volume is just not there. There will be more CNG "prep" offerings in the future. You can take that to the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Ford has no plans to "factory install" CNG or LPG. The volume is just not there. There will be more CNG "prep" offerings in the future. You can take that to the bank. Yes, but with commercial fleets getting hammered by diesel fuel prices (think of all of the box trucks you see every day delivering appliances, furniture, and so on in your neighborhood) I would hope that Ford would be working with one or more upfitters to have some "job ready" CNG/LNG cab and chassis packages available in the Medium lineup for those uses. The V10 should mosty certainly be a lower cost option versus the natural gas versions of some of the Cummins diesels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Looks like Roush CleanTech's Propane Conversions are the way to go for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I know you can get Crown Vics and Transit Connects with a CNG prep package, but is Ford going to offer a CNG vehicle complete from the factory? Sure would be nice to fill up at home overnight and save 50% in fuel costs while I'm at it. Im selling an F250 tommorow to a company that is working with ford....however, i was informed in California, the estimated price of having the conversion made and tested to conform to Ca regulations in $3000000 PLUS.....ridiculous as I look outside and see CNG/ LPG buses run by OCTA ( Orange County Transport Authority ) passing every 2 minutes...how does the Govt and state lawmakers get away with that....DOUBLE STANDARDS.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Yes, but with commercial fleets getting hammered by diesel fuel prices (think of all of the box trucks you see every day delivering appliances, furniture, and so on in your neighborhood) I would hope that Ford would be working with one or more upfitters to have some "job ready" CNG/LNG cab and chassis packages available in the Medium lineup for those uses. The V10 should mosty certainly be a lower cost option versus the natural gas versions of some of the Cummins diesels. The 6.8L V10 is available in the chassis cab (no pickup box) version of the F350-F550 today. I think all of these are available as "CNG prep". The prep package includes special exhaust valves and valve seals. The V10 will be available in 2012CY, with CNG prep, in the F650/750 ("box trucks", large RV platform, and possibly school buses) Ford has only announced "CNG prep", not "job ready". I guess that could change if the demand is takes off, even if they do it by having a refitter "next door" to the plant. Of course that means that Ford owns the warranty on a lot of components that they had no involvement in development or testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The 6.8L V10 is available in the chassis cab (no pickup box) version of the F350-F550 today. I think all of these are available as "CNG prep". The prep package includes special exhaust valves and valve seals. The V10 will be available in 2012CY, with CNG prep, in the F650/750 ("box trucks", large RV platform, and possibly school buses) Ford has only announced "CNG prep", not "job ready". I guess that could change if the demand is takes off, even if they do it by having a refitter "next door" to the plant. Of course that means that Ford owns the warranty on a lot of components that they had no involvement in development or testing. well basically CNG/ Lpg prep only consists of hardened intake exhaust valves and their seats...so the "prep" is really minimal...I do know municipalities are doing the political "think green" posturing and being forcefully directed that way, so we shall see, from a consumer standpoint I have no idea...that $3000000 just for testing is a HUGE hurdle.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Im selling an F250 tommorow to a company that is working with ford....however, i was informed in California, the estimated price of having the conversion made and tested to conform to Ca regulations in $3000000 PLUS.....ridiculous as I look outside and see CNG/ LPG buses run by OCTA ( Orange County Transport Authority ) passing every 2 minutes...how does the Govt and state lawmakers get away with that....DOUBLE STANDARDS.... Simple. The company that builds those buses paid the $3M (give or take) to test and certify that powertrain in that application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) Simple. The company that builds those buses paid the $3M (give or take) to test and certify that powertrain in that application. somehow I doubt it....I would assume the testing facilities has some sort of Govt or State affiliations ....if you get my drift.....but that may just be my conspiracist theories rearing their heads again... Edited April 14, 2011 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 somehow I doubt it....I would assume the testing facilities has some sort of Govt or State affiliations ....if you get my drift.....but that may just be my conspiracist theories rearing their heads again... http://www.creativebussales.com/alternative_fuels_buses/cng_alternative_fuels_bus.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The deal is, it's not $3M PER UNIT, it's $3M to have the powertrain certified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The deal is, it's not $3M PER UNIT, it's $3M to have the powertrain certified. and guess who the cost is transfered too, I had a unit done 2 years ago, cost $19000...yep thats 3 zeros...what a deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The deal is, it's not $3M PER UNIT, it's $3M to have the powertrain certified. still absurd in my mind, but necessary consequence of an Ambulance chasing sue happy society if ANYTHING gos crazy..hell, in New Zealand ( where theres a bounty on Attourneys ) my uncle had a CNG Valiant, it cost approx $3500 and was considered cutting edge...mind you thats 30 years ago....tank was in the trunk..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 It's not absurd. Look, there are laws governing emissions. There have to be. Since there are laws governing emissions there must be a testing regime. Since there is a testing regime, there is a cost to perform that testing regime. What we are talking about here is the cost of certifying a mass produced unit, not the cost of bringing a non-compliant unit into compliance. If you bought a non-compliant unit and knew you were buying a non-compliant unit, I have a hard time sympathizing with the costs of bringing it into compliance. In a similar manner, I have a hard time sympathizing with UCLA when they complain about the cost of housing their T&F athletes after the school year ends when, by choice, they have close to two hundred athletes in their T&F program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 well at 19k whom exactly are the takers?.....and as far as I know CNG and LPG are pretty clean emmissions wise....bottom line is $3 mill in testing sounds like a lot of noses are being poked in and hands are out to be greased....granted theres probably more to it than sticking a sniffer in the tail pipe, but testing costs are what are holding BACK the companies from even attempting to adress CNG in California....shame, because if reasonally attainable with some Govt assistance its a pretty simple way of cleaning up emissions....AND not sponsoring Big Oil as much.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) The $3M isn't paid to California. It's the cost of paying a lab to run the tests. Likewise the $19k conversion. That's not money being given to the state of California, that's money paid to, for instance, provide a CNG tank in your car that won't blow up half the 405 or turn into a RPG if you're rear ended. Edited April 14, 2011 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The $3M isn't paid to California. It's the cost of paying a lab to run the tests. Likewise the $19k conversion. That's not money being given to the state of California, that's money paid to, for instance, provide a CNG tank in your car that won't blow up half the 405 or turn into a RPG if you're rear ended. well, it would make the attourneys happy...and dare I say its probably one of the main reasons the costs are so high....maybe Kiwiws dont give a rats and thats why its under 4k.....lol...Dangers my middle name..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 More regulations do mean a higher cost of compliance. A professor I had in college had a saying, "South Dakota is a state of few laws and few lawyers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 More regulations do mean a higher cost of compliance. A professor I had in college had a saying, "South Dakota is a state of few laws and few lawyers." sounds like my kinda place....lol,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 CNG as a motor fuel has kind of languished it recent years, but thanks to the more stringent (and much more expensive) diesel emssions regulations CNG is an up and comer for fleets. Many fleets are finding the economics for running diesel don't work anymore, and are actively seeking alternatives. While the volumes are not high enough for Ford to offer 'turn key' CNG fueled vehicles as of yet, the CNG prep packages are creating much interest, and there are a number of companies doing EPA and CARB certifed conversions. GM is selling 'factory' Savanna and Express CNG cargo vans at present, and does offer a CNG prep package on Silverado and Sierra trucks. A few weeks ago I looked at some CNG Silverado 2500HD's done by Landi Renzo/Baytech. The trucks looked pretty good and are generating quite a bit of interest. Landi Renzo/Baytech is also converting Ford E Series vans to CNG. Ford may well sell some CNG F-650's. Freightliner is working on a similar truck powered by an 8.0L Origin Engines CNG engine. The 8.0L Origin Engine is pretty much a ground-up CNG/LNG powerplant. Very heavy duty, cast iron block and heads, special valves and seats, oil cooled forged pistons. Yes, it is expensive to get a CNG conversion certifed in California. The cost is basically the same if it is 1 vehicle or a 1,000. CARB tests the conversions for emission regulations conformity same as they do new vehicles. It seems that CARB is actively trying to discourage Uncle Jesse from doing conversions in the trailer park, if you know what I mean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 sounds like my kinda place....lol,,,, It only works until people start to live there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) It only works until people start to live there. Yep. It irks me when media from the coasts come out here, as they did for the tornado in Mapleton, and drive around until they find a family with outside, Wizard of Oz style, doors to their 'storm cellar', and interview them about going down into this damp musty dirt floored basement..... Shoot, it's not like that out here. That irks me, but on the whole, it's simpler to live somewhere ignored and misrepresented than somewhere popular and overcrowded. Edited April 15, 2011 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Yep. It irks me when media from the coasts come out here, as they did for the tornado in Mapleton, and drive around until they find a family with outside, Wizard of Oz style, doors to their 'storm cellar', and interview them about going down into this damp musty dirt floored basement..... Shoot, it's not like that out here. That irks me, but on the whole, it's simpler to live somewhere ignored and misrepresented than somewhere popular and overcrowded. not to mention CHEAPER....91 octane, at the cheapest place around $4.37 1/2....anyone know how to chop a penny in two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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