Bob Rosadini Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Actually Ford has a program in place to educate commercial truck salespeople and it is tied into incentives, after you pass a series of tests you become a Commercial Account Manager or CAM. The dealership and salesperson leave a pretty good chunk of change on the table if they decide not to be "CAM certified".. In our body company division we sometimes are forced to supply non Ford chassis for our PalPro72 mechanics trucks, so I have some first hand experience in dealing with truck salespeople. Just like anything else there are good ones and bad ones.. I will say that I cringe every time I have to buy a Freightliner prouduct...... And I have to go 4 states away to buy a Ram 5500 to find someone that knows what they are talking about........ In my racing career I have raced in one pro race, does that make me a professional race car driver?? Mark, Thanks for the props on my dealership... the handsome guy leaning against the PalPro 43 on the website you posted is yours truly.. IMO Ford seems to be more concerned with retail or "fleetail" business than major fleets. Retail units now get built faster than fleet units, retail pricing is as strong as or sometimes stronger than fleet/ muni programs. Let's just say that this way fits really well into our business model...... On another note we had a pretty good shot in the arm for our Isuzu business when Hino decided to delay (means never in Japan) the delivery of thier new LCF last week.......... Surprised by yor comment on Freightliner. If any sales organization would know their business, I would think it would be these guys-or are you saying dealing with the PRODUCT is a PITA? Interesting about Hino-maybe a tsunami related issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 See the posts on the MKS. I don't think too many limo coach people are crazy about their new "choice". The MKS is not intended to be a livery vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSchicago Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) See the posts on the MKS. I don't think too many limo coach people are crazy about their new "choice". None of the Companies I tow for are. They are waiting to see what the next step is. Many stocked up on new Town cars while they were available. The Limo companies don't have much interest in the MKT. The funeral companies might be different, hell the MKT already looks like a hearse! Edited November 19, 2011 by LSchicago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Ford sells more Lincolns than Class 6-8s Well, to be totally honest I'm not too sure Ford should bother with class 6 and 7 anymore. Their strength is clearly in class 4 and 5. Nonetheless, if Ford wants to be taken seriously in class 6 and larger, they need a sales support organization to assist dealers and large customers. A typical class 6 medium duty has 1000's of available options to taylor it to the job it is purchased for. As an example, you may not only have a choice of several different alternator outputs, but often you can choose between Remy, Leece-Neville, or Denso alternators. You really can't expect dealership staff to keep all that straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Because, of course, the F150 has like only 4 different configuration options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 See the posts on the MKS. I don't think too many limo coach people are crazy about their new "choice". That's Okay, I'll buy one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 The MKS is not intended to be a livery vehicle. Thx-meant to say MKT, I get my alphabet soup mixed up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Well, to be totally honest I'm not too sure Ford should bother with class 6 and 7 anymore. Their strength is clearly in class 4 and 5. Nonetheless, if Ford wants to be taken seriously in class 6 and larger, they need a sales support organization to assist dealers and large customers. A typical class 6 medium duty has 1000's of available options to taylor it to the job it is purchased for. As an example, you may not only have a choice of several different alternator outputs, but often you can choose between Remy, Leece-Neville, or Denso alternators. You really can't expect dealership staff to keep all that straight. We are saying the same thing, Ford is interested in retail or fleetail, you are a fleet user.... I disagree with your thought of Ford not building class 6-7 trucks, 4 other OEM's will build "custom" trucks at "custom" prices. Ford offers something that no one else does, a more generic spec that offers a truck at a(way) lower transaction price than the competition. Ford realized that nobody makes money selling to fleets, not the mfg or the dealer... I don't miss dealing with class 8 fleets at all after the loss of Sterling, they would whine about a leaking washer fluid bottle at 750,000 miles..... Really!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Well, to be totally honest I'm not too sure Ford should bother with class 6 and 7 anymore. Their strength is clearly in class 4 and 5. Nonetheless, if Ford wants to be taken seriously in class 6 and larger, they need a sales support organization to assist dealers and large customers. A typical class 6 medium duty has 1000's of available options to taylor it to the job it is purchased for. As an example, you may not only have a choice of several different alternator outputs, but often you can choose between Remy, Leece-Neville, or Denso alternators. You really can't expect dealership staff to keep all that straight. 7M-I thought there was a lot of tightening of spec options of late-in particular in class 6 and 7-let's pick Navistar for example-you can select alternator brands on say a 4400? In the old days before the computer age I'm sure you remember the "Data Books". Every mfg issued an annual model year loose leaf binder that was about 4" thick. And throughout the year, you would get addendum sheets. that was back in the days when guys would agonize over a tailight spec, never mind an engine choice In any case, the problem I see with Ford is they have no bench in terms of knowledgeable truck people. Instead they have a revolving door of "bright young people" most of whom have no passion for what they do. Its a matter of "look good today" so I can move on to the next assignment. Think Mark Fields could have an intelligent discussion on truck specs? Yeah -he doesn't have to, he has "staff" that can do that. Wrong! I would love to have someone tell me how wrong I am on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Latest info in Heavy Duty Trucking mag:110% increase in F350, 450 and 550 sales. 15% increase in F650/F750 sales over last year. For now they are diesel only but the V10 gas will be available and can be upfitted for propane. Article states that Ford is looking at the possibility of adding tandem rear axles and beefier chassis for an F850, but nothing is written in stone yet.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Think Mark Fields could have an intelligent discussion on truck specs? http://www.techrepublic.com/article/what-it-managers-can-learn-from-ibms-lou-gerstner/1040369 Ironically, in hiring Gerstner, they selected someone who didn’t know the first thing about technology, according to Doug Garr, author of IBM Redux, Lou Gerstner & The Business Turnaround of the Decade. Garr was a speechwriter for IBM from 1996 to1998. In fact, “Gerstner disdained technology,” Garr said. “He didn’t know anything about Lotus Notes, for example, but he knew networking was a good concept.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 http://www.techrepublic.com/article/what-it-managers-can-learn-from-ibms-lou-gerstner/1040369 You raise a valid point- not every highly succesful high level manager was/is a "product guy". I guess my point is I have witnessed too many instances in which you have to wonder just how well does Ford understand some aspects of the medium/heavy truck business. I have cited examples-admittedly my opinion- of how Ford has squandered advertising dollars. I also just look at their web site for commercial vehicles-case in point look at Ford's commercial medium truck info and then look at Hino's. To be fair, on the other hand look at some of Ford's overseas efforts in medium trucks-namely Brazil and Turkey, and you will see-SOMEONE in Ford, beyond the US, does have a clue about making an intelligent pitch to the medium/heavy truck customer. It IS about more then choice of seats, colors and trim levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Actually Ford has a program in place to educate commercial truck salespeople and it is tied into incentives, after you pass a series of tests you become a Commercial Account Manager or CAM. The dealership and salesperson leave a pretty good chunk of change on the table if they decide not to be "CAM certified".. In our body company division we sometimes are forced to supply non Ford chassis for our PalPro72 mechanics trucks, so I have some first hand experience in dealing with truck salespeople. Just like anything else there are good ones and bad ones.. I will say that I cringe every time I have to buy a Freightliner prouduct...... And I have to go 4 states away to buy a Ram 5500 to find someone that knows what they are talking about........ In my racing career I have raced in one pro race, does that make me a professional race car driver?? Mark, Thanks for the props on my dealership... the handsome guy leaning against the PalPro 43 on the website you posted is yours truly.. IMO Ford seems to be more concerned with retail or "fleetail" business than major fleets. Retail units now get built faster than fleet units, retail pricing is as strong as or sometimes stronger than fleet/ muni programs. Let's just say that this way fits really well into our business model...... On another note we had a pretty good shot in the arm for our Isuzu business when Hino decided to delay (means never in Japan) the delivery of thier new LCF last week.......... BAM, I used to look out my old office window in the Grant Building across the Mon at your sign. I was accustomed to seeing Allegheny stickers on most of the commercial and big Ford Trucks around town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 For now they are diesel only but the V10 gas will be available and can be upfitted for propane. And CNG ! Any fleet operator whose accounting office has not done the "total cost of ownership" analysis between diesel and CNG is crazy. Read the news. US, especially in the NY, PA, OH region, is the "Saudi Arabia" of Natural Gas. They are saying we now have proven reserves of NatGas for over 200 years ! Okay, the V10 might not have the hp and torque of a diesel. Go to a higher rear axle ratio. You can afford to take the "hit" in fuel economy at less than $2/gasoline-gallon-equivalent ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I wonder if the V-10 is being offered in gasoline trim with the understanding that it's mostly going to be converted to CNG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I wonder if the V-10 is being offered in gasoline trim with the understanding that it's mostly going to be converted to CNG. The LP/CNG thing ebbs and flows with grant money... When the grant $$ dries up nobody converts except major fleets. The math does not add up without it....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 The LP/CNG thing ebbs and flows with grant money... When the grant $$ dries up nobody converts except major fleets. The math does not add up without it....... Except for fleets ! Even small fleets could save big $$$$ if there is a pumping station nearby. Also depends on the number of miles per vehicle per year driven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 We are saying the same thing, Ford is interested in retail or fleetail, you are a fleet user.... I disagree with your thought of Ford not building class 6-7 trucks, 4 other OEM's will build "custom" trucks at "custom" prices. Ford offers something that no one else does, a more generic spec that offers a truck at a(way) lower transaction price than the competition. Ford realized that nobody makes money selling to fleets, not the mfg or the dealer... I don't miss dealing with class 8 fleets at all after the loss of Sterling, they would whine about a leaking washer fluid bottle at 750,000 miles..... Really!! In my line of work, it is easy for me to loose sight of the need for the generic spec. medium duty. Without a doubt a great many mediums are set up for nothing more than a simple van or stake bed, while my mediums are highly customized vehicles set up to to be rolling tool boxes. If what you are saying is correct about Ford going for the generic medium market (and I have no doubt it is) it makes sense with regards to Ford's plan on taking medium duty back 'in-house'. I pointed out in an earier post that I suspected Ford's future class 6 medium duty plans will be specific, aimed at certain markets, rather than trying to compete with IH and Freightliner truck-for-truck. However, Ford did try this tactic from 1988-2002 with the Mexican built F-series mediums. Very limited options and a low price, but not very successful. I was told one of the ideas behind Blue Diamond was to increase the availble options and configurations at minimum cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 We referred to the Cuautitlán built trucks as "bridge units".. You are indeed correct they were very very limited spec, 2 engine horsepower, 2 transmissions, 6 wheelbases... Our Blue Diamond truck is a little better than that....... The only thing holding back more options is the truck builder, not Ford... Funny note about Cuautitlan is thier F250 build quality back in the day was better than KTP.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Except for fleets ! Even small fleets could save big $$$$ if there is a pumping station nearby. Also depends on the number of miles per vehicle per year driven. 12k upfront cost, 0 resale value and range anxiety are the big issues with small fleets.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 12k upfront cost, 0 resale value and range anxiety are the big issues with small fleets.... Also if vehicle weight is a factor, another strike correct. A CNG tank has to be a significant penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 12k upfront cost, 0 resale value ... A few years back some states were buying F150s converted to CNG. They are getting good resale on eBay. ... and range anxiety are the big issues with small fleets.... Which is why the industry is starting to market "bi-fuel" vehicles. Petrol (gasoline) OR CNG. Not much additional cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Also if vehicle weight is a factor, another strike correct. A CNG tank has to be a significant penalty. Not that they a "feather weight", but most of the industry is using carbon fiber tanks. More expensive, but much lighter. These tanks can be re-certified and then reused in new vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 You folks just don't get it ! In SE MI, a gallon of diesel is averaging about $3.75. A "gasoline gallon equivalent" of CNG is about $1.85. I don't know what the fuel mileage difference would be of an F750 diesel versus CNG would be, but $1.90 goes a long way. That and only 6-7 quarts of oil per change versus 12-15 ? Do medium duties require "diesel fluid" ? Multiply this by 50-100K miles per year and CNG is a winner ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 You folks just don't get it ! In SE MI, a gallon of diesel is averaging about $3.75. A "gasoline gallon equivalent" of CNG is about $1.85. I don't know what the fuel mileage difference would be of an F750 diesel versus CNG would be, but $1.90 goes a long way. That and only 6-7 quarts of oil per change versus 12-15 ? Do medium duties require "diesel fluid" ? Multiply this by 50-100K miles per year and CNG is a winner ! Yes-the Cummins in the 650/750 is a SCR engine and has a urea tank. How do you figure less crankcase capacity? By the way did not know that carbon fiber tanks were approved. Interesting bit of trivia, 10 plus years ago Ford had experimented with carbon fiber leaf springs for heavy trucks. the technology I'm sure has been improving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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