whitetail Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 A $5000.00 dollar signing bonus is only $2800.00 after taxes which translates into $700.00 a year, we have lost over $30,0000 dollars over the last 3 years. What about all of the concessions we gave up 3 years ago, Ford is making money and not lowering the price of cars, but yet they do not want to give us a raise. When Ron Gettlefinger was President and negotiated the VEBA he said it was funded for 80 years, and now they are already asking for money from your profit sharing check to help fund it. We need commitments of real work!!!! NO MORE VAGUE PROMISES. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratatattat Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) AMEN, finally someone speaking up.. You know damn well brother that they are going to force that contract down our throats, they are going to say it was the best deal for GM, and that ford should take it so that Chrysler will take it. This is why they killed the Chrysler talks and extended their contract, so that they can lay that BS crap on us that we need to take what GM got so that Chrysler comes in line with everyone because it's such a good deal for everyone. You know they wanna pattern bargain all three companies again so the IUAW at the top can get some quick pocket cash. YES THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT, ITS A BIG PAYOFF SCAM. Think of the IUAW as being in a box, the box is full with cash to the top, the membership is outside the box trying to get in but it will never happen because they are just protecting their own jobs and pockets. Don't bring that GM contract around here, there is no way in hell were taking that shit. You can walk the plants all you want and try and talk us into it but we see how that went before when you tried to talk us into giving up our rights to strike right? yeah nowhere.. It won't happen again either. I am so tired of getting nothing so I can have a "SO CALLED JOB TOMORROW", people we may not be around tomorrow. Get it while you can, GET IT NOW.. NO MORE SPIN WORDS NO MORE EMPTY PROMISES GIVE IT ALL BACK OR WERE WALK'N I'll buy the Donuts. Edited September 22, 2011 by ratatattat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 We need commitments of real work!!!! We need product commitments like 2007 and above. Many still need jobs. Although Chicago and Louisville and Kentucky truck had large gains in job security from the 2007 agreement and we were offered the opportunities several time some people just cant sell homes and move. We need product commitments again. GM monetary gains are good but we need more jobs Skilled trades are in dire need of jobs. Last I heard on trades there were over 500 without work, possibly more The UAW knows that jobs, jobs, jobs fixes everything Product commitments is a yes vote for me 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 We need product commitments like 2007 and above. Many still need jobs. Although Chicago and Louisville and Kentucky truck had large gains in job security from the 2007 agreement and we were offered the opportunities several time some people just cant sell homes and move. We need product commitments again. GM monetary gains are good but we need more jobs Skilled trades are in dire need of jobs. Last I heard on trades there were over 500 without work, possibly more The UAW knows that jobs, jobs, jobs fixes everything Product commitments is a yes vote for me I'm sorry but they've already proven that their word is meaningless! A new flex body shop was promised to OHAP as was a new product and both have yet to be fulfilled. Bob King himself admitted that Ford was reneging on their commitments to us! So, again, I'm sorry! Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'm sorry but they've already proven that their word is meaningless! A new flex body shop was promised to OHAP as was a new product and both have yet to be fulfilled. Bob King himself admitted that Ford was reneging on their commitments to us! So, again, I'm sorry! Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Yawn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yawn Real solidarity there, "brother"! So with your cavalier attitude are you implying that you don't care if OHAP closes? I've not said which way I'd go on this contract. How can I when I've not seen any details? Hell, we don't even have a contract yet. But I can say what I feel is necessary for me to give a yes vote on a contract. So I'll go out on a limb here and say that if there's nothing for OHAP, I'll vote no and I'll go out of my way to encourage everyone at my plant to vote no as well, after all, what would we have to lose? But as mean as this is, I sincerely hope that your plant faces what mine is some day! Then you'll be laughing out of the other side of your mouth! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Real solidarity there, "brother"! So with your cavalier attitude are you implying that you don't care if OHAP closes? I've not said which way I'd go on this contract. How can I when I've not seen any details? Hell, we don't even have a contract yet. But I can say what I feel is necessary for me to give a yes vote on a contract. So I'll go out on a limb here and say that if there's nothing for OHAP, I'll vote no and I'll go out of my way to encourage everyone at my plant to vote no as well, after all, what would we have to lose? But as mean as this is, I sincerely hope that your plant faces what mine is some day! Then you'll be laughing out of the other side of your mouth! You state the same thing over and over. 95% of the product commitments happened and these locations identified from 2007 are enjoying job security today. I guess I yawned because your statements are implying product commitments are worthless but benefited 95% of the locations named If I was at OHAP like you I would be standing on top of these boards "YELLING WE NEED PRODUCTS IN OUR PLANTS AS A TOP PRIORITY" Yet you condenm the very language that benefited 20,000 of us in 2007 You are either for or against product commitments. Which is it? The yawning was purposely put in the post to draw a response from you as designed. I wish only the best for OHAP and ask you to join my crusade on the importance of job security and products Join me in benefiting all of us with products and investments first in our plants wont you? Solidarity Sister from the bottom of my heart 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorman925 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Real solidarity there, "brother"! So with your cavalier attitude are you implying that you don't care if OHAP closes? I've not said which way I'd go on this contract. How can I when I've not seen any details? Hell, we don't even have a contract yet. But I can say what I feel is necessary for me to give a yes vote on a contract. So I'll go out on a limb here and say that if there's nothing for OHAP, I'll vote no and I'll go out of my way to encourage everyone at my plant to vote no as well, after all, what would we have to lose? But as mean as this is, I sincerely hope that your plant faces what mine is some day! Then you'll be laughing out of the other side of your mouth! Quit being a fool. We vote no on the contract and let them go back and negotiate a better one. If we vote it down they will see we mean business. We gave up to much to pass a crappy contract like GM got . VOTE NO UNLESS WE GET A RAISE. We voted to strike if need be , so lets do what we said we would! VOTE NO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) Real solidarity there, "brother"! So with your cavalier attitude are you implying that you don't care if OHAP closes? I've not said which way I'd go on this contract. How can I when I've not seen any details? Hell, we don't even have a contract yet. But I can say what I feel is necessary for me to give a yes vote on a contract. So I'll go out on a limb here and say that if there's nothing for OHAP, I'll vote no and I'll go out of my way to encourage everyone at my plant to vote no as well, after all, what would we have to lose? But as mean as this is, I sincerely hope that your plant faces what mine is some day! Then you'll be laughing out of the other side of your mouth! Dont feel bad Spring, Empire thinks those of us at plants which recieved good honored commitments have no right to ask for better either. Commitments are nice but OHAP is a prime example of what I have been saying since everyone wants to preach product commitments. Without a product that will sell at good volumes product commitments dont mean shit. Prove me wrong Empire!! I know I know you will attack me and the fact I work in a plant that has had product commitments fullfilled this past contract, but look were I started to get a better understanding of were I have been and why I thank the design team as much as I thank the UAW for my job. I will add flex body shops while they sound nice cut roughly 200 jobs from a older style body shop, so those are not a win for the UAW jobs in my opinion. I have yet too see one that can switch platforms like they where hyped up when DTP opened the first one in the US. Again I will ask Empire prove me wrong. wave to everyone at solidarity house for me :shades: Edited September 23, 2011 by lquidspine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novoter4life Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I agree with others, product will be there, we need to get the money now to protect our future. We keep giving up our money and we will be working for 8 bucks an hour soon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetail Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 I agree with others, product will be there, we need to get the money now to protect our future. We keep giving up our money and we will be working for 8 bucks an hour soon. At Rawsonville under the first modification they gave us a commitment of a feasibility study for seats, no real commitment other than work that was already slated to come to our plant. Any contract with a feasibilty study in it, is a vote NO for me. Any contract without our COLA is a vote NO for me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 DTP is a plant with named investments and a future that will get me to retirement and a future for many for years to come. Don't ever underestimate the importance. The GM agreement is reopening 2 assembly plants and getting manufacturing out of Mexico and placing it in our plants. The UAW just saved 6,000 families and gave them futures with these investment commitments I can only hope the Ford Negotiating team get get product as good or better than the 07 agreement 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novoter4life Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 DTP is a plant with named investments and a future that will get me to retirement and a future for many for years to come. Don't ever underestimate the importance. The GM agreement is reopening 2 assembly plants and getting manufacturing out of Mexico and placing it in our plants. The UAW just saved 6,000 families and gave them futures with these investment commitments I can only hope the Ford Negotiating team get get product as good or better than the 07 agreement Sorry I never saw the product investments they promised in 2007, I also didn't see the product investments they were supposed to get for Livonia Trans? remember the millions of dollars they were going to sink into that plant that never happened?? How can you believe anything the IUAW or company says about product investments? If you want to put more people back to work, how about re-opening some of the ACH plants instead of building new assembly plants??? This is a crock of shit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktp1989 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Sorry I never saw the product investments they promised in 2007, I also didn't see the product investments they were supposed to get for Livonia Trans? remember the millions of dollars they were going to sink into that plant that never happened?? How can you believe anything the IUAW or company says about product investments? If you want to put more people back to work, how about re-opening some of the ACH plants instead of building new assembly plants??? This is a crock of shit. I want all our Union Brothers and Sisters working...but to think the IUAW has an input on making Ford/Gm bring jobs to the US or bring work back from Mexico or any other country is truely laughable. Ford/Gm only allows this to be put in the contract as a tool to help the Union ratify a shitty contract when the fact is Ford/Gm will not bring any work back ever because the Union forced them to but rather because they had already planned to and allowed the union to feel as if they had some input. Bottom line after the ink is dry on the contract Ford/Gm can simply state that market conditions have changed and that the investment is gone. Wake up....78% of Ford total business is run outside the U.S. so if for brings work here or keeps a plant open...it's because they wanted to...not because the Union forced them too............if our contract is anything like GM's....Easy No for me. But I will wait to see what it looks like. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenger Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I want all our Union Brothers and Sisters working...but to think the IUAW has an input on making Ford/Gm bring jobs to the US or bring work back from Mexico or any other country is truely laughable. Ford/Gm only allows this to be put in the contract as a tool to help the Union ratify a shitty contract when the fact is Ford/Gm will not bring any work back ever because the Union forced them to but rather because they had already planned to and allowed the union to feel as if they had some input. Bottom line after the ink is dry on the contract Ford/Gm can simply state that market conditions have changed and that the investment is gone. Wake up....78% of Ford total business is run outside the U.S. so if for brings work here or keeps a plant open...it's because they wanted to...not because the Union forced them too............if our contract is anything like GM's....Easy No for me. But I will wait to see what it looks like. I agree we need to keep our Union Brothers and Sisters working, I disagree that the IUAW has 'no input'. They obviously do and have been succesful in bringing work into our plants since the 2007 contract. Bringing work back from Mexico was a steal for the membership. That is something I would have thought to be impossible. I highly doubt GM or any other company would freely and willingly bring work back from a low cost country like Mexico to the USA. The IUAW obviously had a huge impact in that decision. btw if there were no UAW, you and me wouldn't have jobs at the high pay and benefits we currently ahve. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novoter4life Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 (edited) I agree we need to keep our Union Brothers and Sisters working, I disagree that the IUAW has 'no input'. They obviously do and have been succesful in bringing work into our plants since the 2007 contract. Bringing work back from Mexico was a steal for the membership. That is something I would have thought to be impossible. I highly doubt GM or any other company would freely and willingly bring work back from a low cost country like Mexico to the USA. The IUAW obviously had a huge impact in that decision. btw if there were no UAW, you and me wouldn't have jobs at the high pay and benefits we currently ahve. They had to bring the work back from Mexico people buying and building American don't wish to buy cars made in Mexico. If Ford sends any work out to another country to build a vehicle, I will not buy it. One Company, 1 team, Ford. Edited September 24, 2011 by novoter4life 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 (edited) You state the same thing over and over. 95% of the product commitments happened and these locations identified from 2007 are enjoying job security today. I guess I yawned because your statements are implying product commitments are worthless but benefited 95% of the locations named If I was at OHAP like you I would be standing on top of these boards "YELLING WE NEED PRODUCTS IN OUR PLANTS AS A TOP PRIORITY" Yet you condenm the very language that benefited 20,000 of us in 2007 You are either for or against product commitments. Which is it? The yawning was purposely put in the post to draw a response from you as designed. I wish only the best for OHAP and ask you to join my crusade on the importance of job security and products Join me in benefiting all of us with products and investments first in our plants wont you? Solidarity Sister from the bottom of my heart From Page 8U dated 11-2-07 Ohio Assembly Plant Product allocation & work retention The E-Series continues through the current product lifecycle. New product will be allocated to the plant during the life of this agreement The plant will recieve a new, flexible body shop Wayne Intergrated Stamping & Assembly Plants Product Allocation & Work Retention The focus continues through the current product lifecycle. New product will be allocated to the plant during the life of this agreement The plant will recieve a new, flexible body shop Page 7U dated 11-2-07 Michigan truck Plant Product Allocation & Work Retention Expedition, Expedition EL, Navigator and Navigator L continue through the current product lifecycle. Substantial investment will be put into the Expedition, Expedition EL, Navigator, and Navigator L products during the life of this agreement New product will be allocated during the life of this agreement. So far 1 plant has not gotten the new product OHAP, and only one of the two following plants got their commitments (WAP/MTP) unless MAP gets a two for one deal ? Here is a product commitment from the October modifications that was fullfilled even though that contract was not passed (feel free to correct me if I am mistaken). Page 17 of the October 2009 modifications dated 10-7-09 Subject; Product Sourcing for Milan Plant The company is committed to partnering with the UAW to address the challenges facing the Milan Plant. Accordingly, the UAW and Ford commit to restructure the business to improve the plant's competitiveness and make it more attractive for sale. To this end , the Company is working with the UAW on the following products for the Milan facility: - E-series fuel tanks transferring to Milan - Mustang fuel tank outsourcing canceled - Taurus fuel tank insourced - Expedition EL/Navigator L fuel tanks insourced - F-series fuel tank Boy I am sure the Ford workers at DEFTP plant are little dissapointed about this product commitment that was not included in a ratified agreement, that was realized anyway , should I mention the Milan workers that are now being displaced by the recent sale of the Milan plant ? Next up Saline, Page 18 of the October Modifications that were not ratified dated 10-7-09 Subject: Product Sourcing for the Saline Plant - Current model programs for Focus, Flex/MKT and Escape consoles insourced - Expedition/Navigator IP, cockpit, door trim, and console retained - Future Focus IP outsourcing canceled Again someone correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure all those commitments were realized, in a contract that was not ratified. Now sold and once again people workers at this facility will be moved into a Ford facility (see recent transfer oportunities thread). DEFTP , was given the "mod center" which saved 20 jobs at that plant and roughly 20 from DDMP , however how many jobs have those plants lost since 2007 ? Page 2U dated 2-15-09 of the March 2009 modifications agreement (ratified); Recommit new product Ohio Assembly Plant The already mentioned language for Rawsonville, from page 11U of the 2007 CBA dated 11-2-07 The national Parties agree to work together to identify potential future work opportunities for the plant This was followed up in the March 2009 modifications agreement on page 18 dated 2-15-09, with a subject matter of; Rawsonville Seat Insourcing. Shall I add terms of the entry level language, I will anyway. Page 90c (white pages) dated 11-2-07; Subject: Definitions and Administration of Entry Level Employees - 7,027 Entry Level opportunities have been identified based on the current employment level company-wide, excluding Sterling Axle Plant , Rawsonville ACH, and previously negotiated COA outsourcing actions. In conjunction with 7,027 Entry Level opportunities identified, a total of 1229 previously negotiated COA outsourcing actions will be retained in-house at traditional classifications and rates. The combination of these two actions represent 20% of the total number of seniority employees covered by the UAW-Ford national Agreement. The number of Entry Level opportunities will be adjusted to maintain this percentage, based on changes in future population size. My issue here is we have hired 100 or less Entry Level employees to date, instead we have allowed the company to abuse the LTS language. So again while product commitments are an absolute must to have, the problem is the devil is in the details. While I have listed several main cases of commitments not realized, I have also listed several commitments that were realized but they were only realized because it benefited the sale of those plants and that is troubling to me because those commitments were in a contract that was voted down. Edited September 25, 2011 by lquidspine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 (edited) From Page 8U dated 11-2-07 ]Ohio Assembly Plant Product allocation & work retention Commitment implemented The E-Series continues through the current product lifecycle. Committment implemented New product will be allocated to the plant during the life of this agreement The plant will recieve a new, flexible body shop: Commitment not yet attained Wayne Intergrated Stamping & Assembly Plants Product Allocation & Work Retention Commitment implemented The focus continues through the current product lifecycle. Commitment implemented New product will be allocated to the plant during the life of this agreement Commitment implemented The plant will recieve a new, flexible body shop Commitment implemented Michigan truck Plant Product Allocation & Work Retention Expedition, Expedition EL, Navigator and Navigator L continue through the current product lifecycle. Commitment implemented to KTP. KTP gained this job security Substantial investment will be put into the Expedition, Expedition EL, Navigator, and Navigator L products during the life of this agreement Commitment implemented to KTP. KTP gained this job security New product will be allocated during the life of this agreement. See gains explained below So far 1 plant has not gotten the new product OHAP, and only one of the two following plants got their commitments (WAP/MTP) unless MAP gets a two for one deal ? The MTP/WAP/MAP investment was a bonus to Local 900 as a whole. The actual investment dollars were doubled and with the possibility of new product going to MAP the job security has doubled as well as transfer opportunities. Old WAP ran 2 shifts and MTP ran 1 shift. The new MAP will run 3 shifts as well as the possibility of utilization of old WAP. With the actual investment doubling at Local 900, the job security there should be good for the next 20 years. This commitment was one of the biggest wins for the 2007 agreement Here is a product commitment from the October modifications that was fulfilled even though that contract was not passed (feel free to correct me if I am mistaken). Page 17 of the October 2009 modifications dated 10-7-09 Subject; Product Sourcing for Milan Plant The company is committed to partnering with the UAW to address the challenges facing the Milan Plant. Accordingly, the UAW and Ford commit to restructure the business to improve the plant's competitiveness and make it more attractive for sale. Correct and sold as agreed To this end , the Company is working with the UAW on the following products for the Milan facility: - E-series fuel tanks transferring to Milan - Mustang fuel tank outsourcing canceled - Taurus fuel tank insourced - Expedition EL/Navigator L fuel tanks insourced - F-series fuel tank As far as I know this commitment was implemented as agreed Boy I am sure the Ford workers at DEFTP plant are little dissapointed about this product commitment that was not included in a ratified agreement, that was realized anyway , should I mention the Milan workers that are now being displaced by the recent sale of the Milan plant ? DEFTP knew these tanks were going away since 2007. The Milan sale and DEFTP were realized in 2007, no surprise Next up Saline, Page 18 of the October Modifications that were not ratified dated 10-7-09 Subject: Product Sourcing for the Saline Plant - Current model programs for Focus, Flex/MKT and Escape consoles insourced - Expedition/Navigator IP, cockpit, door trim, and console retained - Future Focus IP outsourcing canceled[/u] Again someone correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure all those commitments were realized, in a contract that was not ratified. Now sold and once again people workers at this facility will be moved into a Ford facility (see recent transfer opportunities thread). As Bob King stated publicly he would continue to fight to ensure these commitments to go through.He also stated publicly that negotiations never stop and he would do everything in his power to get these products which he did attain. I am certain that negotiations do go the full 4 years and King did do what he said publicly DEFTP , was given the "mod center" which saved 20 jobs at that plant and roughly 20 from DDMP , however how many jobs have those plants lost since 2007 ? Why do yo keep score as if the game is over. You must open your eyes and see the future. The game of bargaining is never over and DEP and DDMP need product commitments yet you despise the very action that gained 95% implementation in the worst economy we have ever witnessed Page 2U dated 2-15-09 of the March 2009 modifications agreement (ratified); The already mentioned language for Rawsonville, from page 11U of the 2007 CBA dated 11-2-07 The national Parties agree to work together to identify potential future work opportunities for the plant [/u] This was followed up in the March 2009 modifications agreement on page 18 dated 2-15-09, with a subject matter of; Rawsonville Seat Insourcing. I am unaware of the Rawsonville actions. I do know they were brought back from the dead and with Rawsonville I hope they gain commitments again to keep them open. Shall I add terms of the entry level language, I will anyway. Page 90c (white pages) dated 11-2-07; Subject: Definitions and Administration of Entry Level Employees - 7,027 Entry Level opportunities have been identified based on the current employment level company-wide, excluding Sterling Axle Plant , Rawsonville ACH, and previously negotiated COA outsourcing actions. In conjunction with 7,027 Entry Level opportunities identified, a total of 1229 previously negotiated COA outsourcing actions will be retained in-house at traditional classifications and rates. The combination of these two actions represent 20% of the total number of seniority employees covered by the UAW-Ford national Agreement. The number of Entry Level opportunities will be adjusted to maintain this percentage, based on changes in future population size. My issue here is we have hired 100 or less Entry Level employees to date, instead we have allowed the company to abuse the LTS language. Please, understand this justifies the 20% cap and returns all COA actions. Remember hilo, dock, cribs, line side delivery etc So again while product commitments are an absolute must to have, the problem is the devil is in the details. While I have listed several main cases of commitments not realized, I have also listed several commitments that were realized but they were only realized because it benefited the sale of those plants and that is troubling to me because those commitments were in a contract that was voted down. I have never seen such negativity in benefiting from the very process that you gain then on the other hand speaking ill of the process. You are either for or against commitments. UAW ensured a .950 batting average on commitments. I would say the procedure is quite successful, but then again you are a direct beneficiary so discredit the UAW for their success is just plain wrong I don’t know why you are against product commitments and the UAWs ability to insure investments are implemented at UAW Ford locations. We live in an imperfect world with many variables. As I have said these investments aided in the job security of 95% of the locations listed. The 2007-2008 Bush Economic Crash devastated manufacturing and many sectors held back on spending. The IUAW insured our investments were applied as agreed. So we can agree 95% of investments committed did in fact grant us great job security. Estimates of 20,000+ and as you know this was a direct benefit of the 2007 agreement on entry level, veba etc. Quite simply our lower competitive wage structure skillfully negotiated without impacting our rates of pay and benefits gained us this job security at about half of the UAW represented locations I will post the gains identified from Grim Reaper which appears pretty accurate ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [quote name='Grim Reaper' timestamp='1316463568' post='728998'] You are so blind about job security I am actually shocked we have coworkers like you that discredit the proactive IUAW in securing product (JOB SECURITY FOR US). Even through the economic rule of the Bush administration the IUAW insured these commitments 2007 Product and Investment Commitments ASSEMBLY Plant Product Auto Alliance Mustang and Mazda 6 continue through current product lifecycle. Substantial investment in Mustang and Mazda 6 during the life of agreement. Integrated Stamping Operations will get major new stampings associated with new assembly products. Chicago Assembly Taurus, Taurus X and Sable continue through current product lifecycle. 2008 launch of the new Lincoln MKS; continues at Chicago Assembly through the product lifecycle. New product will be allocated during the life of the agreement. All New Explorer Dearborn Truck 2008 calendar year launch of the new F-150 truck replacement product for the current model will be allocated to Dearborn Truck and continue through the product lifecycle. Mark LT will continue through the current product lifecycle. Louisville Explorer, Mountaineer and SportTrac continue through the current product lifecycle. New product allocated to Louisville Assembly during the life of agreement. All new Escape and new facility The plant will receive a new, flexible body shop. Kansas City Assembly 2008 calendar year launch of the new F-150 truck replacement product for the current model will be allocated to the plant and continue through the product lifecycle. The Escape, Escape Hybrid, Mariner, Mariner Hybrid and Tribute continue through current product lifecycle. New product allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. The plant will receive a new, flexible body shop. Kentucky Truck Super Duty truck continues through current product lifecycle. Substantial investment will be put into the Super Duty product during the life of this agreement. Expedition Navigator Investment The Integrated Stamping Operations will get major new stampings associated with new assembly products at Kentucky Truck. The plant will receive a new, flexible body shop. Twin Cities Assembly Ranger production has been extended for one year. No future product has been identified beyond the current product lifecycle. The plant will close in 2011. . Wayne Integrated Stamping and Assembly (MAP) The Focus continues through current product lifecycle. New product will be allocated during the life of the agreement. Focus, Electric Focus, Hybrid Focus, RS Focus The Integrated Stamping Operations will get major new stampings associated with new assembly products at Wayne Assembly Plant. The plant will receive a new, flexible body shop. Product and Investment Commitments STAMPING Plant Product Buffalo Stamping Products currently allocated will continue through current vehicle program lifecycle. Major stampings for 2008 launch of the Flex and an additional future product will be allocated to the plant. Chicago Stamping Products currently allocated will continue through the current vehicle program lifecycle. Major stampings for new product for Chicago Assembly will be allocated to the plant. (EXPLORER) Dearborn Stamping Products currently allocated will be produced through current vehicle program lifecycle. Major stampings for new product for Dearborn Truck plant, including the 2008 new F-150, will be allocated to the plant. Dearborn Diversified Manufacturing Plant Products currently allocated will be produced through current vehicle program lifecycle. The plant will produce F-150 components during the life of the agreement. Dearborn Tool & Die Company to invest $20 million in new 5-axis mills during the term of the agreement. Walton Hills Stamping Products currently allocated will be produced through current vehicle program lifecycle. Major stampings for new product for Ohio Assembly will be allocated to the plant. Woodhaven Stamping Products currently allocated will be produced through current vehicle program lifecycle. Major stampings associated with new products in multiple assembly plants will be allocated to the plant. CASTING Plant Product Woodhaven Forging 5.4L crankshaft machining continues through product lifecycle. 6.8L crankshaft machining continues through product lifecycle. All new 3.5 and 3.7 forging committed through the agreement TRANSMISSION AND DRIVELINE Plant Product Livonia Transmission 4R75 transmission production continues through product lifecycle. 6R transmission production continues through product lifecycle. Major investments will be made to expand the 6R transmission capacity during the life of the agreement. Sharonville Transmission 5R110 transmission production continues through product lifecycle. 6R/6F, 6F Mid Range and FN gear manufacturing will continue through product lifecycle. Next-generation product will be allocated to the plant to replace 5R110 during the life of the agreement. Van Dyke Transmission FN transmission production continues through product lifecycle. 6F50 and 6F55 transmission production continues through product lifecycle. The new 6F Mid-Range transmission will launch in 2008 and continue through product lifecycle. HF 35 hybrid investment Sterling Axle Axle production continues to support the following vehicles, through the product lifecycle: - Mustang, - F-150, F-250, F-350, F-450, - Econoline, - Navigator, - Explorer, - Expedition EL, - Navigator L, - Mountaineer, - Sport Trac, - Mercury Crown, Victoria, Grand Marquis, - Ranger. Tubes, gears and paint continue as stated in COA. Production of new "11.x" axle will be allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. The UAW and Ford agree to work together to identify potential future work opportuni- ties for the plant. ENGINE Plant Product Dearborn Engine and Fuel Tank 2.0L / 2.3L I4 engine production (non VCT) continues through the product lifecycle. Fuel tank production will be discontinued by 2010. A substantial investment and a new product based on the current engine architecture will be allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. DCI Cleveland Engine 1 Launch D35 in 2008 and continue production through product lifecycle. New product based on cur rent engi ne architecture will be allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. The plant will receive an additional increment of D35 engine capacity during the life of the agreement. Cleveland Engine 2 Duratec 30 engine production continues through product lifecycle. Duratec 30 engine receives an engineering upgrade in 2008. UAW and Ford agree to work together to identify potential future work opportunities. Lima Engine D35 engine production continues through product lifecycle. New product based on current engi ne architecture will be allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. Romeo Engine 4.6L and 5.4L engine production will continue through product lifecycle. A new engine program will be allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. 6.2 Litre As you can see this is a number 1 priority. Product commitments are our future. Without these commitments the company would source this work to Mexico and Canada This post has been edited by Grim Reaper: 19 September 2011 - 03:21 PM ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Edited September 25, 2011 by Empire 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 (edited) Once again the point flies right over your head Empire, and once again I will try to explain it so you may understand. 1. I have stated over and over product commitments are a number one priority; out of the 5 examples I gave, 2 of those took products from a Ford facility to give to a now sold ACH plant. 2. The Saline and Milan language I cited was from the october modifications, ya the one we voted down brother !! 3. So the WAP and MTP was a 2 for 1 product commitment is what you seem to be saying. Actually a 3 for 1 since by your post, since the KTP Expidition and Navigator (which was a MTP commitment ) was realized as their product commitment. Wait nevermind Empire I am done with you bro, if your going to cite language and not post what was the actual language I will not continue discussions with you Empire wrote this as if to say it was fact Kentucky Truck Super Duty truck continues through current product lifecycle. Substantial investment will be put into the Super Duty product during the life of this agreement. Expedition Navigator Investment The Integrated Stamping Operations will get major new stampings associated with new assembly products at Kentucky Truck. The plant will receive a new, flexible body shop The language for KTP product commitments from page 8U dated 11-2-07 of the 2007 CBA is actually Kentucky Truck Plant * Product Allocation & work Retention - The Super Duty Truck continues through the current product lifecycle. - Substantial investment will be put into the Super Duty product during the life of this Agreement - The Integrated Stamping Operations will get major new stampings associated with new assembly products at Kentucky Truck Plant. - The plant will recieve a new, flexible body shop So again enjoy Empire I will not continue to debate someone that wants to base discussions on scewed facts , I hope we all get good product commitments and I hope the design team continues to design products the consumers want to continue to buy so we all can keep working. By the way I understand the intentions of the entry level language, you fail once again to get the point . We use LTS instead of hiring any entry level so really what the fuck does it matter. Thanks btw Empire for answering a burning question I have not asked, tell the boys at the negotiating table to stay the course please for me :shades: Edited September 25, 2011 by lquidspine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 (edited) Once again the point flies right over your head Empire, and once again I will try to explain it so you may understand. 1. I have stated over and over product commitments are a number one priority Good as we can agree that the proactive UAW should continue to gain product commitments in all future negotiations as a top priority as 95% of the 2007 commitments were implemented out of the 5 examples I gave, 2 of those took products from a Ford facility to give to a now sold ACH plant. As I said everyone realized tanks were going away in 2007, no surprise. The Saline is not quite sold yet. The proactive IUAW may be able to pull some of the Saline product out and put some of these operations inside assembly plants. As I said negotiations are 24/7. The job security game never ends, so stop keeping score. The UAW bargained a great agreement in 2007 and the GM agreement was nothing short of sheer genius. 2. The Saline and Milan language I cited was from the october modifications, ya the one we voted down brother !! Yes. Good job 3. So the WAP and MTP was a 2 for 1 product commitment is what you seem to be saying. Actually a 3 for 1 since by your post, since the KTP Expidition and Navigator (which was a MTP commitment ) was realized as their product commitment. I will post it again so it sinks inThe MTP/WAP/MAP investment was a bonus to Local 900 as a whole. The actual investment dollars were doubled and with the possibility of new product going to MAP the job security has doubled as well as transfer opportunities. Old WAP ran 2 shifts and MTP ran 1 shift. The new MAP will run 3 shifts as well as the possibility of utilization of old WAP. With the actual investment doubling at Local 900, the job security there should be good for the next 20 years. This commitment was one of the biggest wins for the 2007 agreement[b ] Wait nevermind Empire I am done with you bro, if your going to cite language and not post what was the actual language I will not continue discussions with you Empire wrote this as if to say it was fact Dont be a quitter once you cant refute the truth. I quoted this from Grim Reaper from a different thread. Here it is again. I didnt quote it as language, it was labeled UAW insures product commitments and he listed all locations that got investments from 2007 thru 2011. Seems truthful to me. You are so blind about job security I am actually shocked we have coworkers like you that discredit the proactive IUAW in securing product (JOB SECURITY FOR US). Even through the economic rule of the Bush administration the IUAW insured these commitments The question still remains are you for or against product commitments listed in our agreement as a top priority Yes or no............ Edited September 25, 2011 by Empire 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rouge rat Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Once again the point flies right over your head Empire, and once again I will try to explain it so you may understand. 1. I have stated over and over product commitments are a number one priority Good as we can agree that the proactive UAW should continue to gain product commitments in all future negotiations as a top priority as 95% of the 2007 commitments were implemented out of the 5 examples I gave, 2 of those took products from a Ford facility to give to a now sold ACH plant. As I said everyone realized tanks were going away in 2007, no surprise. The Saline is not quite sold yet. The proactive IUAW may be able to pull some of the Saline product out and put some of these operations inside assembly plants. As I said negotiations are 24/7. The job security game never ends, so stop keeping score. The UAW bargained a great agreement in 2007 and the GM agreement was nothing short of sheer genius. 2. The Saline and Milan language I cited was from the october modifications, ya the one we voted down brother !! Yes. Good job 3. So the WAP and MTP was a 2 for 1 product commitment is what you seem to be saying. Actually a 3 for 1 since by your post, since the KTP Expidition and Navigator (which was a MTP commitment ) was realized as their product commitment. I will post it again so it sinks inThe MTP/WAP/MAP investment was a bonus to Local 900 as a whole. The actual investment dollars were doubled and with the possibility of new product going to MAP the job security has doubled as well as transfer opportunities. Old WAP ran 2 shifts and MTP ran 1 shift. The new MAP will run 3 shifts as well as the possibility of utilization of old WAP. With the actual investment doubling at Local 900, the job security there should be good for the next 20 years. This commitment was one of the biggest wins for the 2007 agreement[b ] Wait nevermind Empire I am done with you bro, if your going to cite language and not post what was the actual language I will not continue discussions with you Empire wrote this as if to say it was fact Dont be a quitter once you cant refute the truth. I quoted this from Grim Reaper from a different thread. Here it is again. I didnt quote it as language, it was labeled UAW insures product commitments and he listed all locations that got investments from 2007 thru 2011. Seems truthful to me. The question still remains are you for or against product commitments listed in our agreement as a top priority Yes or no............ Voting against product is crazy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Voting against product is crazy. No were have I ever said vote against product, I can not make it any more clear to Empire and Grim though Rouge. For one Grim posts stuff as fact that Empire uses in a rebuttle and I showed it was not in the actual language. Product commitments are a number one priority, I really do not know how much more I need to say that. However those two need to understand that people will remain skepticle when there are commitments that have not been realized for some plants, and then there were commitments that were awarded from a contract that was not ratified. The commitments that were awarded from the October modifications ( that was voted down) did not benefit the membership they benefited the sale of those facilities, Ford insourced work to be outsourced that is reality. Empire was doging Spring talking about commitments, well how the fuck do you think people like Spring or workers from other facilities that have not gotten there commitments fullfilled should feel ? Were is the grievance for those people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 No were have I ever said vote against product, I can not make it any more clear to Empire and Grim though Rouge. For one Grim posts stuff as fact that Empire uses in a rebuttle and I showed it was not in the actual language. Product commitments are a number one priority, I really do not know how much more I need to say that. However those two need to understand that people will remain skepticle when there are commitments that have not been realized for some plants, and then there were commitments that were awarded from a contract that was not ratified. The commitments that were awarded from the October modifications ( that was voted down) did not benefit the membership they benefited the sale of those facilities, Ford insourced work to be outsourced that is reality. Empire was doging Spring talking about commitments, well how the fuck do you think people like Spring or workers from other facilities that have not gotten there commitments fullfilled should feel ? Were is the grievance for those people. Ok, first of all, I'm not going to say I'm for the contract or against the contract because THEY'RE STILL NEGOTIATING IT! I haven't seen the language and haven't been able to weigh the pros and cons of any tentative agreement. My point was that regardless of whatever agreement is brought to us, Ford's word is no good to me because they have failed to live up to their commitments to my facility two times. First by reneging on the new body shop negotiated in the original agreement and then when the agreement was re-opened and a new product was promised to OHAP by the end of the agreement, they failed to fulfill that commitment as well so that tells that Ford doesn't keep their word to their agreements or commitments. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novoter4life Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 First of all, the reason it was voted down was because there was a "no strike" clause in there, do you want to give up your right to strike over a piece of product going to someone's plant? HELL TO THE FUCK NO!! and if you think giving up your right to strike is a good idea, you better just go take yourself out, because once you do that, you will never get that back.. Everything we been giving up for years has not come back to us. You give up your rights to strike and your screwed my friends.. You might as well consider your UNION under water at that point. I can't even believe the UNION would even accept a vote on something like that. Product commitments are like throwing a quarter into the wishing well.. Better get out a pocket full of quarters my friends.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) Empire- Please do not use my information. Find or present your own data. Using mine is not proper forum etiquette Spine-Please reread my statement where I clearly stated that the IUAW insured these commitments as stated below I know Empire used my findings but no where did I claim this was contract language nor implied such I clearly stated that the IUAW insured these commitments as stated below Carry on >>>>>>>>>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ The IUAW insured these commitments 2007 Product and Investment Commitments ASSEMBLY Plant Product Auto Alliance Mustang and Mazda 6 continue through current product lifecycle. Substantial investment in Mustang and Mazda 6 during the life of agreement. Integrated Stamping Operations will get major new stampings associated with new assembly products. Chicago Assembly Taurus, Taurus X and Sable continue through current product lifecycle. 2008 launch of the new Lincoln MKS; continues at Chicago Assembly through the product lifecycle. New product will be allocated during the life of the agreement. All New Explorer Dearborn Truck 2008 calendar year launch of the new F-150 truck replacement product for the current model will be allocated to Dearborn Truck and continue through the product lifecycle. Mark LT will continue through the current product lifecycle. Louisville Explorer, Mountaineer and SportTrac continue through the current product lifecycle. New product allocated to Louisville Assembly during the life of agreement. All new Escape and new facility The plant will receive a new, flexible body shop. Kansas City Assembly 2008 calendar year launch of the new F-150 truck replacement product for the current model will be allocated to the plant and continue through the product lifecycle. The Escape, Escape Hybrid, Mariner, Mariner Hybrid and Tribute continue through current product lifecycle. New product allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. The plant will receive a new, flexible body shop. Kentucky Truck Super Duty truck continues through current product lifecycle. Substantial investment will be put into the Super Duty product during the life of this agreement. Expedition Navigator Investment The Integrated Stamping Operations will get major new stampings associated with new assembly products at Kentucky Truck. The plant will receive a new, flexible body shop. Twin Cities Assembly Ranger production has been extended for one year. No future product has been identified beyond the current product lifecycle. The plant will close in 2011. . Wayne Integrated Stamping and Assembly (MAP) The Focus continues through current product lifecycle. New product will be allocated during the life of the agreement. Focus, Electric Focus, Hybrid Focus, RS Focus The Integrated Stamping Operations will get major new stampings associated with new assembly products at Wayne Assembly Plant. The plant will receive a new, flexible body shop. Product and Investment Commitments STAMPING Plant Product Buffalo Stamping Products currently allocated will continue through current vehicle program lifecycle. Major stampings for 2008 launch of the Flex and an additional future product will be allocated to the plant. Chicago Stamping Products currently allocated will continue through the current vehicle program lifecycle. Major stampings for new product for Chicago Assembly will be allocated to the plant. (EXPLORER) Dearborn Stamping Products currently allocated will be produced through current vehicle program lifecycle. Major stampings for new product for Dearborn Truck plant, including the 2008 new F-150, will be allocated to the plant. Dearborn Diversified Manufacturing Plant Products currently allocated will be produced through current vehicle program lifecycle. The plant will produce F-150 components during the life of the agreement. Dearborn Tool & Die Company to invest $20 million in new 5-axis mills during the term of the agreement. Walton Hills Stamping Products currently allocated will be produced through current vehicle program lifecycle. Major stampings for new product for Ohio Assembly will be allocated to the plant. Woodhaven Stamping Products currently allocated will be produced through current vehicle program lifecycle. Major stampings associated with new products in multiple assembly plants will be allocated to the plant. CASTING Plant Product Woodhaven Forging 5.4L crankshaft machining continues through product lifecycle. 6.8L crankshaft machining continues through product lifecycle. All new 3.5 and 3.7 forging committed through the agreement TRANSMISSION AND DRIVELINE Plant Product Livonia Transmission 4R75 transmission production continues through product lifecycle. 6R transmission production continues through product lifecycle. Major investments will be made to expand the 6R transmission capacity during the life of the agreement. Sharonville Transmission 5R110 transmission production continues through product lifecycle. 6R/6F, 6F Mid Range and FN gear manufacturing will continue through product lifecycle. Next-generation product will be allocated to the plant to replace 5R110 during the life of the agreement. Van Dyke Transmission FN transmission production continues through product lifecycle. 6F50 and 6F55 transmission production continues through product lifecycle. The new 6F Mid-Range transmission will launch in 2008 and continue through product lifecycle. HF 35 hybrid investment Sterling Axle Axle production continues to support the following vehicles, through the product lifecycle: - Mustang, - F-150, F-250, F-350, F-450, - Econoline, - Navigator, - Explorer, - Expedition EL, - Navigator L, - Mountaineer, - Sport Trac, - Mercury Crown, Victoria, Grand Marquis, - Ranger. Tubes, gears and paint continue as stated in COA. Production of new "11.x" axle will be allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. The UAW and Ford agree to work together to identify potential future work opportuni- ties for the plant. ENGINE Plant Product Dearborn Engine and Fuel Tank 2.0L / 2.3L I4 engine production (non VCT) continues through the product lifecycle. Fuel tank production will be discontinued by 2010. A substantial investment and a new product based on the current engine architecture will be allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. DCI Cleveland Engine 1 Launch D35 in 2008 and continue production through product lifecycle. New product based on cur rent engi ne architecture will be allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. The plant will receive an additional increment of D35 engine capacity during the life of the agreement. Cleveland Engine 2 Duratec 30 engine production continues through product lifecycle. Duratec 30 engine receives an engineering upgrade in 2008. UAW and Ford agree to work together to identify potential future work opportunities. Lima Engine D35 engine production continues through product lifecycle. New product based on current engi ne architecture will be allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. Romeo Engine 4.6L and 5.4L engine production will continue through product lifecycle. A new engine program will be allocated to the plant during the life of the agreement. 6.2 Litre As you can see this is a number 1 priority. Product commitments are our future. Without these commitments the company would source this work to Mexico and Canada Edited September 26, 2011 by Grim Reaper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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