UAW negotiatiors hit it out of the park

[itsmeuaw]

The Detroit Free Press has a pretty good write up of the new work and bonuses negotiated by the UAW-Ford team. The Highlights and contract will go into further detail for sure.

 

http://www.freep.com/article/20111004/BUSINESS0102/111004010/UAW-Ford-deal-highlights-5-750-jobs-entry-level-raises-6-000-bonus-plus-profit-sharing?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

 

 

UAW-Ford deal highlights: 5,750 jobs; entry-level raises; $6,000 bonus plus profit sharing

1:54 PM, Oct. 4, 2011 |

179 Comments

BY BRENT SNAVELY,GREG GARDNER ANDCHRISSIE THOMPSON

 

DETROIT FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITERS

 

 

The UAW and Ford’s tentative agreement creates 5,750 entry-level U.S. jobs, raises hourly wages for workers hired after September 2007 to $19.28 and pulls forward a profit-sharing payment that, when added to a $6,000 ratification bonus, will give veteran workers about $10,000 by the end of the year in addition to their regular pay.

The agreement raises the hourly wage for workers hired after 2007 to $19.28 by the end of the contract, the UAW said today in a contract summary released to reporters. Those workers currently make about $15.50 an hour. Ford will also offer buyouts of $50,000 to production workers and $100,000 to skilled-trades workers, in an attempt to open jobs for more entry-level employees.

John Fleming, Ford's executive vice president of global manufacturing, said Ford is announcing the 5,750 jobs for the first time. The contract also includes 6,250 created or preserved jobs that Ford has already announced. Newly created jobs will go to workers hired at the company's lower, entry-level wage, he said this morning at a press conference at Ford’s Dearborn headquarters.

The contract would guarantee four $1,500 lump-sum payments in so-called “inflation protection,” in place of cost-of-living adjustments.

The pact offers job security for workers at plants in Flat Rock and Kansas City and ties profit-sharing to Ford’s North American earnings, instead of just income from its U.S. operations. Under the new profit-sharing formula, Ford workers will receive an average payout of $3,752 in November based on Ford’s North American profit for the first half of 2011, the UAW said.

Each Ford UAW worker also will receive a $250 payment in December for meeting quality objectives.

The UAW and Ford reached the agreement early this morning after 10 weeks of bargaining, making Ford the second automaker, after General Motors, to reach a new deal with the union. GM ratified its deal last week, but the UAW may have a challenge selling the Ford agreement to workers, who expected significantly greater gains than their GM counterparts.

But UAW President Bob King said UAW local leaders who heard details of the agreement this morning endorsed the tentative contract.

“The leadership that was just in here were saying that they don’t have to sell the agreement,” King said this morning at a downtown Detroit press conference. “They feel like this agreement stands on its own.”

Under the agreement, Ford’s plant in Flat Rock will add a shift to help build the next-generation Ford Fusion, currently built in Mexico, and continue to build the Ford Mustang in its next generation. That factory will receive a $555 million investment, providing some job security for its 1,600 hourly workers. The plant will stop production of the Mazda6 in coming months.

Dearborn Truck assembly will also add a shift, UAW Vice President Jimmy Settles said.

Ford will also invest $1 billion at a Kansas City assembly plant, which will build the Transit, Ford's full-size European van and will get a second-shift of F-Series production in 2012. A $128 million investment will be made in Avon Lake, Ohio, to build medium-dutytrucks, whose production was slated for Mexico, a motor-home chassis and the E-Series van cutaway.

GM’s deal is expected to preserve or create 6,400 jobs. It also will provide workers with a $5,000 signing bonus, three $1,000 lump-sum payments, an improved profit-sharing plan and a raise of about $3 per hour for entry-level workers over the life of the contract.

Ford’s deal gives second-tier workers more of an initial raise and offers workers higher lump-sum payments, but that may not satisfy Ford’s workers. They contend they deserve more because Ford did not accept government assistance.

Ford’s UAW workers have retained the right to strike. As a condition of the federal aid to GM and Chrysler, workers there gave up the right to strike and face binding arbitration in the case of an impasse.

 

more!!!!!!!!!!!!Read your contract and the UAW bylaws. IUAW gets 1.15% of all negotiated bonuses. Been that way for a very long time.

Would love to see a show of hands of people that truly believe the union can negotiate with Ford about spending several billions of dollars in the US and create or bring 10k into the country in a few weeks span when product development and man power studies take 1-3 years. For instance the highlights mention the uaw won a new product and a 3rd shift at LAP. This was talked about over a year and half ago here in Louisville yet the union is taking credit for it.

 

The fact they are paying an advance of profit sharing should be a big RED FLAG on this contract.

 

Voting for or against this contract is not gonna sway ford with their product plans. If you vote yes everything we have given up becomes permanent. We will also be selling out the new hires, they have removed the part where they can reach equal pay as they replace the veterans. Read the white pages and skip the highlights.

 

They don't get anything from grievence payments.. And I never said that I "KNOW " that this was the reason for the delays.. I clearly stated that it made me wonder if it was possible.

I have to wonder why this grievance has taken so very long to get to this stage. I know that Arbitration can take time, but please...this is ridiculous.

[Len_A]

Just out of curiosity, have you guys ever seriously talked about unionizing? I have heard you could not be represented by the UAW but if that is true, why not another union?

I don't see why it couldn't be the UAW, but where the real sticking point is regarding those individuals who have anyone reporting to them. If I recall correctly the wording of that section of the National Labor Relations Act, anyone who has people report to them, can assign work,, etc, is, for purposes of the National Labor Relations Act, considered to be a supervisor, and cannot be considered an employee for the purpose of collective bargaining.

 

Sec. 2. [§152.] (1) , (11), and Sec. 14. [§ 164. Construction of provisions] (a) See: http://www.nlrb.gov/national-labor-relations-act

[itsmeuaw]

Just out of curiosity, have you guys ever seriously talked about unionizing? I have heard you could not be represented by the UAW but if that is true, why not another union?

 

Weren't many of the new product announcements and investments already promised in the last contract or modifications to the contract?

OHAP

KCAP

MAP

LAP

CAP

 

 

More to the point, the OctoMods failed so new commitments are moot. But those plants listed were offered "Re-Re-Commitments" for product. THOSE commitments not fulfilled by September 2011 are essentially failed for being unfulfilled and should have been grieved if the union had done it's job. But they wanted to avoid rocking the boat before the 2011 negotiations.

 

Promising to give us the same thing in this new contract is deceitful. And it is NOT NEW WORK.

Off the top of my head, Louisville Assembly. They are nearly completely retooled. How can you count that as a gain in the proposed new contract?

Im a no vote on this one, and not so much on the signing bonus. I thought the VEBA was good for 80 years? what the hell happened?

 

I thought Bob said that the grievance had to be settled first? No mention of it!!!! What happened to all the other promises that was made? I fell like we the middle class union members going getting a shaft you know where. We must do the right thing here.

Wow, you cans skim the highlights without knowing the true facts. That is all from the previous contract. Work that is already here. Nothing new! What about the impending doom of the FN transmission? What is replacing that? The mexican built powershift transmission.....Voting NO. There is nothing but bad in it for me.

 

about what happens later.

Ford contract would make concessions permanent!

The tentative Ford contract means this: Ford will give us a signing bonus of $6,000 (before taxes), plus four $1,500 bonuses (before taxes) and promises of profit-sharing. But we lose all the concessions we gave up. Everything that we want back, Ford said NO! NO! NO!

 

NO raises, NO COLA, NO performance bonuses, NO Christmas bonuses, NO Easter Monday holiday, NO return of lost break time. NO overtime after 8 hours. (Letter on back-up time doesn’t change this.)

 

First tier autoworkers lost up to $30,000 in concessions over the last few years. Now Ford wants to continue these concessions for another 4 years. At what cost to us? Lose another $30,000? All for $12,000 in bonuses? No raises for 4 more years, after we have already waited 6 years?

They give us 2011 profit-sharing this November – by taking it away from next March’s money – hoping we will jump at the money now and forget

The biggest concession is that 2-tier will continue.

This contract does not bring up the 2nd-tier workers up to first tier. This contract keeps them permanent 2nd-tier, with no path to move up to first tier wages and benefits. The pay increase, spread over 4 years, barely makes up for what 2nd-tier workers lost in the 2009 concessions. The supposed 20% limit on 2nd-tier workers is filled with loopholes. The percentage of 2nd-tier workers will increase, meaning the threat of everyone being eventually reduced to 2nd-tier will increase.

 

The profit-sharing formula is supposed to be improved, by including North American operations instead of just the U.S. But what is to keep Ford from shifting profits around to hide them? Do you trust Ford? There is also a cap on profit-sharing when there didn't used to be one. And there is no guarantee of getting profit-sharing every year.

 

This contract makes us pay for what Ford did not put into the VEBA. The VEBA is underfunded because Ford only put in 57% of what was needed for retiree health care. Retirees are paying more out of pocket. Instead of making Ford pay for their obligations, this contract would take 10% of any profit-sharing we might get to put into the VEBA.

 

New retirees will take another hit because for the first contract ever, there is no increase in the 30-and-out pension. Current retirees’ Christmas bonus is taken away from them.

 

There are promises of new jobs. But remember the 2007 contract where Ford promised to save 10,000 jobs – instead we lost 17,300 jobs. If you look closely at the promises of jobs, it is mostly work that Ford was going to do anyway.

 

When the past concessions were taken away from us, they wanted us to believe that when the companies were reporting a profit again, we would get back what we gave up. It was all a lie.

 

They want us to accept that these concessions will be permanent. But we don’t have to stand by and watch our families’ standard of living be permanently reduced, while our bosses are the only ones who prosper from our hard work.

 

The Ford contract does have more upfront money than the GM contract. But let’s remember why it is more – because we voted “No” in 2009. It ‘s a good lesson to remember this time.

 

I’m voting “NO” and I ask you to vote “NO”!

 

Gary Walkowicz

Bargaining Committeeman, Dearborn Truck Plant, Local 600 How much did we give up in concessions? How much do they owe us?

--Dec., ’05.- Lost a 3% raise, lost some COLA -- lost $2,000/year (about $10,000 total).

--Sept.,07. - Lost more COLA, (up to 50 cents/hour). Increased health care costs for

prescriptions, office visits and other co-pays.

--Feb., ‘09. - Lost 2 Performance Bonuses (about $5,000 total); 2 Christmas bonuses ($1,200

total); COLA eliminated; no overtime after 8 hours; Easter Monday holiday taken away; reduced

SUB ; no pay-in-lieu.

It is estimated we lost about $30,000 in money alone. But that’s only a small part of it.

--Two-tier wages. New hires lose over $25,000 a year. Two-tier wages make it harder for first tier

to get a raise and threatens to bring us all down to 2nd tier.

--The VEBA. Health care for retirees is no longer guaranteed. How much money will we have to

pay out of pocket when we retire?

--Lost break time and alternative work schedules. It makes our working conditions much harder.

It may take weeks, months or years off our lives. What price do you put on that?

******************************************

This is part of a letter that I received from a 2nd-tier Ford worker:

“I and my co-workers only want to work hard, live comfortably & secure a future for ourselves

& our families. $14/ hour can't help one to do much more than pay bills & show up to work week

after week with empty pockets & no hope for tomorrow. The modest pay that I receive does not

cover car repairs or insurance. My pay cannot support rent/mortgage & a car note/lease. I may

have to wait 15 years before I can buy one of the vehicles that I helped make. The check that I

receive every week does not have enough room for frivolities like haircuts, school supplies for

four children, a full tank of gas (to take said children to school & me to work), on time payment

of utilities or rent, or food (groceries are not a luxury). The pressure of being underpaid drains

people physically, emotionally & spiritually (some people lose faith). We wake up with our backs

against the wall & leave work feeling like we were in a stick fight & everyone had a stick except

us! I don't mind hard work but all of this is for half pay. “

[itsmeuaw]

The more information I get on this agreement, it is a very good agreement.

 

Profit-sharing instead of raises?

We need our raises and our COLA back. We need something that is guaranteed. Depending

on profit-sharing means letting the companies tell us what they are going to pay us. Do

you trust the auto companies? Do you really think profit-sharing will pay as much money

as getting a raise every year?

The history of profit-sharing shows what a scam it is. For Ford workers, we have had

profit-sharing in the contract for the last 28 years. In 8 of those years, our profit-sharing

was a big fat ZERO. In 5 more years, our profit-sharing was between $160 and $600

(before taxes). That means, almost half the time our take home pay from profit-sharing was

less than $400.

The auto company executives themselves are calling for profit-sharing instead of raises. So

if the companies are pushing for profit-sharing, who do you think profit-sharing will

benefit, us or them? And when their promises of big profit-sharing checks don’t

materialize, who is going to help us pay the electric bill, the mortgage and our car note?

We can’t live on promises.

Competitive with who?

Bob King says that we can’t demand raises from the auto companies because we have to

help them stay “competitive”. Competitive with who? Ford just had one of their most

profitable years ever. Was Ford being competitive when Alan Mulally and Bill Ford were

each paid $26.5 Million last year? And, oh yeah, Mulally and Bill Ford were also given a

total of $98.9 Million in stock options last year. How competitive are they?

For years, they have used this talk about being “competitive” to justify taking tens of

thousands of dollars in concessions from autoworkers. Now that the auto companies are

making big profits again, they want to sell us the same old crap about being “competitive”.

Hey, Bob King, autoworkers need “competitive” wages so that we can pay our damn

bills!!!

(1) The UAW is not informing members what they intend to do with the pension.

 

(2) Profit sharing is a hoax. Profit is what capital extracts from labor, not what it shares with labor.

Shares are what CEOs are rewarded for screwing workers.

 

(3) A union leader who promotes profit sharing as a way for workers to achieve economic justice

is nothing but a corporate shill mutually agreeing to mutually screw both workers and retirees.

--Dec., ’05.- Lost a 3% raise, lost some COLA -- lost $2,000/year (about $10,000 total).

--Sept.,07. - Lost more COLA, (up to 50 cents/hour). Increased health care costs for

prescriptions, office visits and other co-pays.

--Feb., ‘09. - Lost 2 Performance Bonuses (about $5,000 total); 2 Christmas bonuses ($1,200

total); COLA eliminated; no overtime after 8 hours; Easter Monday holiday taken away; reduced

SUB ; no pay-in-lieu.

It is estimated we lost about $30,000 in money alone. But that’s only a small part of it.

--Two-tier wages. New hires lose over $25,000 a year. Two-tier wages make it harder for first tier

to get a raise and threatens to bring us all down to 2nd tier.

--The VEBA. Health care for retirees is no longer guaranteed. How much money will we have to

pay out of pocket when we retire?

--Lost break time and alternative work schedules. It makes our working conditions much harder.

It may take weeks, months or years off our lives. What price do you put on that?

[itsmeuaw]

And don't forget that the salaried retirees have been taking a beating since around 1998, too, but some of the IUAW members will never acknowledge that, including several of my idiot neighbors.

There are promises of new jobs. But remember the 2007 contract where Ford promised to save 10,000 jobs – instead we lost 17,300 jobs. If you look closely at the promises of jobs, it is mostly work that Ford was going to do anyway.

--Dec., ’05.- Lost a 3% raise, lost some COLA -- lost $2,000/year (about $10,000 total).

--Sept.,07. - Lost more COLA, (up to 50 cents/hour). Increased health care costs for

prescriptions, office visits and other co-pays.

--Feb., ‘09. - Lost 2 Performance Bonuses (about $5,000 total); 2 Christmas bonuses ($1,200

total); COLA eliminated; no overtime after 8 hours; Easter Monday holiday taken away; reduced

SUB ; no pay-in-lieu.

It is estimated we lost about $30,000 in money alone. But that’s only a small part of it.

--Two-tier wages. New hires lose over $25,000 a year. Two-tier wages make it harder for first tier

to get a raise and threatens to bring us all down to 2nd tier.

--The VEBA. Health care for retirees is no longer guaranteed. How much money will we have to

pay out of pocket when we retire?

--Lost break time and alternative work schedules. It makes our working conditions much harder.

It may take weeks, months or years off our lives. What price do you put on that?

******************************************

--Dec., ’05.- Lost a 3% raise, lost some COLA -- lost $2,000/year (about $10,000 total).

--Sept.,07. - Lost more COLA, (up to 50 cents/hour). Increased health care costs for

prescriptions, office visits and other co-pays.

--Feb., ‘09. - Lost 2 Performance Bonuses (about $5,000 total); 2 Christmas bonuses ($1,200

total); COLA eliminated; no overtime after 8 hours; Easter Monday holiday taken away; reduced

SUB ; no pay-in-lieu.

It is estimated we lost about $30,000 in money alone. But that’s only a small part of it.

--Two-tier wages. New hires lose over $25,000 a year. Two-tier wages make it harder for first tier

to get a raise and threatens to bring us all down to 2nd tier.

--The VEBA. Health care for retirees is no longer guaranteed. How much money will we have to

pay out of pocket when we retire?

--Lost break time and alternative work schedules. It makes our working conditions much harder.

It may take weeks, months or years off our lives. What price do you put on that?

******************************************

[itsmeuaw]

And don't forget that the salaried retirees have been taking a beating since around 1998, too, but some of the IUAW members will never acknowledge that, including several of my idiot neighbors.

 

This contract makes us pay for what Ford did not put into the VEBA. The VEBA is underfunded because Ford only put in 57% of what was needed for retiree health care. Retirees are paying more out of pocket. Instead of making Ford pay for their obligations, this contract would take 10% of any profit-sharing we might get to put into the VEBA.

 

First tier autoworkers lost up to $30,000 in concessions over the last few years. Now Ford wants to continue these concessions for another 4 years. At what cost to us? Lose another $30,000? All for $12,000 in bonuses? No raises for 4 more years, after we have already waited 6 years?

They give us 2011 profit-sharing this November – by taking it away from next March’s money – hoping we will jump at the money now and forget

The biggest concession is that 2-tier will continue.

This contract does not bring up the 2nd-tier workers up to first tier. This contract keeps them permanent 2nd-tier, with no path to move up to first

 

 

Weren't many of the new product announcements and investments already promised in the last contract or modifications to the contract?

OHAP

KCAP

MAP

LAP

CAP

 

 

More to the point, the OctoMods failed so new commitments are moot. But those plants listed were offered "Re-Re-Commitments" for product. THOSE commitments not fulfilled by September 2011 are essentially failed for being unfulfilled and should have been grieved if the union had done it's job. But they wanted to avoid rocking the boat before the 2011 negotiations.

 

Promising to give us the same thing in this new contract is deceitful. And it is NOT NEW WORK.

Off the top of my head, Louisville Assembly. They are nearly completely retooled. How can you count that as a gain in the proposed new contract?

Im a no vote on this one, and not so much on the signing bonus. I thought the VEBA was good for 80 years? what the hell happened?

 

I thought Bob said that the grievance had to be settled first? No mention of it!!!! What happened to all the other promises that was made? I fell like we the middle class union members going getting a shaft you know where. We must do the right thing here.

Wow, you cans skim the highlights without knowing the true facts. That is all from the previous contract. Work that is already here. Nothing new! What about the impending doom of the FN transmission? What is replacing that? The mexican built powershift transmission.....Voting NO. There is nothing but bad in it for me.

 

--Dec., ’05.- Lost a 3% raise, lost some COLA -- lost $2,000/year (about $10,000 total).

--Sept.,07. - Lost more COLA, (up to 50 cents/hour). Increased health care costs for

prescriptions, office visits and other co-pays.

--Feb., ‘09. - Lost 2 Performance Bonuses (about $5,000 total); 2 Christmas bonuses ($1,200

total); COLA eliminated; no overtime after 8 hours; Easter Monday holiday taken away; reduced

SUB ; no pay-in-lieu.

It is estimated we lost about $30,000 in money alone. But that’s only a small part of it.

--Two-tier wages. New hires lose over $25,000 a year. Two-tier wages make it harder for first tier

to get a raise and threatens to bring us all down to 2nd tier.

--The VEBA. Health care for retirees is no longer guaranteed. How much money will we have to

pay out of pocket when we retire?

--Lost break time and alternative work schedules. It makes our working conditions much harder.

It may take weeks, months or years off our lives. What price do you put on that?

 

opening plants in India and record sales Uk........mexico drug cartdell hijacking trucks coming to US.china human rights issues and japan earthquake detroy the parts plants that why work coming back.Plus we can use half salary worker now.Instead of kids like they do in their countries to make parts .

[itsmeuaw]

no,we can paid 98 millions to 2 ceo only they can give a little back to us the worker ,who put that money in their ,when we make those 2007 concessions ,they got theirs back.

[Len_A]

This contract makes us pay for what Ford did not put into the VEBA. The VEBA is underfunded because Ford only put in 57% of what was needed for retiree health care. Retirees are paying more out of pocket. Instead of making Ford pay for their obligations, this contract would take 10% of any profit-sharing we might get to put into the VEBA.

 

First tier autoworkers lost up to $30,000 in concessions over the last few years. Now Ford wants to continue these concessions for another 4 years. At what cost to us? Lose another $30,000? All for $12,000 in bonuses? No raises for 4 more years, after we have already waited 6 years?

They give us 2011 profit-sharing this November – by taking it away from next March's money – hoping we will jump at the money now and forget

The biggest concession is that 2-tier will continue.

This contract does not bring up the 2nd-tier workers up to first tier. This contract keeps them permanent 2nd-tier, with no path to move up to first

 

 

Weren't many of the new product announcements and investments already promised in the last contract or modifications to the contract?

OHAP

KCAP

MAP

LAP

CAP

 

 

More to the point, the OctoMods failed so new commitments are moot. But those plants listed were offered "Re-Re-Commitments" for product. THOSE commitments not fulfilled by September 2011 are essentially failed for being unfulfilled and should have been grieved if the union had done it's job. But they wanted to avoid rocking the boat before the 2011 negotiations.

 

Promising to give us the same thing in this new contract is deceitful. And it is NOT NEW WORK.

Off the top of my head, Louisville Assembly. They are nearly completely retooled. How can you count that as a gain in the proposed new contract?

Im a no vote on this one, and not so much on the signing bonus. I thought the VEBA was good for 80 years? what the hell happened?

 

I thought Bob said that the grievance had to be settled first? No mention of it!!!! What happened to all the other promises that was made? I fell like we the middle class union members going getting a shaft you know where. We must do the right thing here.

Wow, you cans skim the highlights without knowing the true facts. That is all from the previous contract. Work that is already here. Nothing new! What about the impending doom of the FN transmission? What is replacing that? The mexican built powershift transmission.....Voting NO. There is nothing but bad in it for me.

 

--Dec., '05.- Lost a 3% raise, lost some COLA -- lost $2,000/year (about $10,000 total).

--Sept.,07. - Lost more COLA, (up to 50 cents/hour). Increased health care costs for

prescriptions, office visits and other co-pays.

--Feb., '09. - Lost 2 Performance Bonuses (about $5,000 total); 2 Christmas bonuses ($1,200

total); COLA eliminated; no overtime after 8 hours; Easter Monday holiday taken away; reduced

SUB ; no pay-in-lieu.

It is estimated we lost about $30,000 in money alone. But that's only a small part of it.

--Two-tier wages. New hires lose over $25,000 a year. Two-tier wages make it harder for first tier

to get a raise and threatens to bring us all down to 2nd tier.

--The VEBA. Health care for retirees is no longer guaranteed. How much money will we have to

pay out of pocket when we retire?

--Lost break time and alternative work schedules. It makes our working conditions much harder.

It may take weeks, months or years off our lives. What price do you put on that?

 

opening plants in India and record sales Uk........mexico drug cartdell hijacking trucks coming to US.china human rights issues and japan earthquake detroy the parts plants that why work coming back.Plus we can use half salary worker now.Instead of kids like they do in their countries to make parts .

Am I correct in assuming that you want to two tier gone? I can not see how that can ever happen, or be allowed to happen. Two Tier is one of the reasons that Ford is as close to being competitive with the transplants as they are (still the highest labor cost of any auto manufacturer in North America). The rest of the changes you listed is the main reason why the Focus now makes money, instead of loses money.

 

No one is saying the things you've lost don't suck. You guys took it in the ass the last five years, but the fact remains that you have to be competitive with the transplants, and no matter how much they (over?)pay a CEO, it's the actual cost of labor that adds up. And Mullaly's pay is typical of what happens when you have to go outside a company to find competent management. If they had homegrown management worth a shit, they never would have gone outside the company to begin with.

 

Plus while you guys think that if they can pay a CEO that much money, you deserve your raises, the fact remains that the people who Ford is counting on to buy cars and trucks, so you and I can have a job, don't agree with you and could give a fuck what you (or I) think. The one thing you never answer is whether you think it's worth risking losing car sales over. Do you actually believe Ford won't lose car sales over giving in to your demands?

 

Plus, for some fucking reason that I don't understand, you don't seem to think that Ford needs to be competitive with GM & Chrysler. Why?

[4Real?]

Am I correct in assuming that you want to two tier gone? I can not see how that can ever happen, or be allowed to happen. Two Tier is one of the reasons that Ford is as close to being competitive with the transplants as they are (still the highest labor cost of any auto manufacturer in North America). The rest of the changes you listed is the main reason why the Focus now makes money, instead of loses money.

 

No one is saying the things you've lost don't suck. You guys took it in the ass the last five years, but the fact remains that you have to be competitive with the transplants, and no matter how much they (over?)pay a CEO, it's the actual cost of labor that adds up. And Mullaly's pay is typical of what happens when you have to go outside a company to find competent management. If they had homegrown management worth a shit, they never would have gone outside the company to begin with.

 

Plus while you guys think that if they can pay a CEO that much money, you deserve your raises, the fact remains that the people who Ford is counting on to buy cars and trucks, so you and I can have a job, don't agree with you and could give a fuck what you (or I) think. The one thing you never answer is whether you think it's worth risking losing car sales over. Do you actually believe Ford won't lose car sales over giving in to your demands?

 

Plus, for some fucking reason that I don't understand, you don't seem to think that Ford needs to be competitive with GM & Chrysler. Why?

 

 

Len, you can't please some of these fucktards on here. They want no Entry Level. OK, say that happens. Our costs are too high and plants have to close. Guess who complains? The fucktards who didn't want an Entry Level. They say it's all the internationals fault for not having Entry Level! Because of these idiots, people are laid off and dislocated, our memberhsip drops below 20,000, we lose market share, Ford ships more work overseas and guess who complains--these fucktards who didn't want Entry Level. I am really surprised they can hold a job, let alone drive a car, brush their teeth or tie their shoes. We have a few of these fuckers in my plant, they are the dumbest fucking morons on earth. On the flip side, most are the greediest Tea Partiers on earth. They don't care about the union, they only care about themselves.

[Len_A]

Len,

I think what happens is that there are only two voices being heard right now.

 

1. the angry worker who feels undervalued and therefore wants it all

2. The Recently signed up Solidarity house rep cheerleading the contract.

 

Unfortunately i was #1 for a while and while i'm still pissed at both my company and my union i realize that being all jacked up isn't giving my beliefs a fair shot with others.

 

I'm going to put my thoughts here in simple terms

 

1. I feel that we could have done better. We didn't push for a few more little things

 

2. While Mullaly is tough, i think he would have parted with more liquid to settle the deal.

 

3. I think the product commitment was coming as i see Ford rebranding itself as the rugged individualist American auto company. You have to invest in America to do that though.

 

3. All summer we heard UAW leadership talk about not going after wages, but getting better profit sharing. However the increase in profit sharing is equal roughly to the amount the UAW is taking for VEBA

 

In conclusion, if you going to come into negotiations with this touchy feelly we're not a threat, we are only asking for a little attitude you will disappoint your membership, especially when they don't get the big payout in profit sharing they thought 99 million in stock options should get them.

 

So you can understand why people are unbalanced. Realistically the Ford UAW dept needed to come back with more to get all members on board. GM's profit sharing increased greatly and ours stayed the same.

 

you can't social butterfly the contract negotiations....lalalalalallala.

I know exactly where you're coming from, although I really doubt that there are any International Reps here - the political fallout from actually doing that, if they got caught, would be unbelievably bad for the union, and trust me, the UAW's reputation is bad enough as it is.

 

I agree with you - the profit sharing should be even better, especially given that someone decided to tap into to it, to supplement the finding of the VEBA (and understand this - my Dad retired from DSP, and the VEBA hit my Mom & Dad real hard). The question now, is whether that could be done, if the contract is rejected. It depends, it's an incredibly risky strategy, and it depends on a the possibility of a strike. Right now, profit sharing is going to give the average UAW member some money that he didn't get when the company was losing money and you guys took it the ass with the concessions that itsmeuaw listed.

 

The risk is that the company & unions image takes a big enough hit that it starts costing sales. Whether you UAW members want to acknowledge that, whether you want to believe it, it's an incredibly valid risk that not only exists, but has been festering since things started turning around for the company. All you have to do is look at the what gets posted else where, like WSJ. Com, MarketWatch.com, Autoblog, anytime Ford's success gets mentioned - you have a hgh percentage of posters claiming that Ford's in the UAW's cross-hairs and it's only a matter of time before all the greedy, lazy UAW members go after Ford, and punish them for going bankrupt and allowing the crooked, communist Obama administration steal the company from it's bondholders and give it to the UAW, etc, etc,etc, ad nauseum.

 

The fact is, it's so freaking bad a risk, it might be better for the company to stand up to the NO voters, and tell everyone to go to hell. In fact, if it looks like they might try to break the union, you may get good publicity brownie points from the public for it. That's how bad a good portion of the new customers that are buying Ford still hate the UAW. And that would be coming from a car company with a historically good relationship with the union. It's scary.

 

Take this from someone with a lot of expertise in sales and marketing - trying to get these people to put aside their hatred of the UAW and still buy a Ford is like trying to convince the die hard "NO" voters, like itsmeuaw, that he's wrong and should reconsider his position. The question is who can live without who. We know the customers have other car makers to buy from. Do we have replacement customers if they walk away from Ford? My answer is no, we don't, and we can't find them.

Edited October 8, 2011 by Len_A

[Len_A]

Len, you can't please some of these fucktards on here. They want no Entry Level. OK, say that happens. Our costs are too high and plants have to close. Guess who complains? The fucktards who didn't want an Entry Level. They say it's all the internationals fault for not having Entry Level! Because of these idiots, people are laid off and dislocated, our memberhsip drops below 20,000, we lose market share, Ford ships more work overseas and guess who complains--these fucktards who didn't want Entry Level. I am really surprised they can hold a job, let alone drive a car, brush their teeth or tie their shoes. We have a few of these fuckers in my plant, they are the dumbest fucking morons on earth. On the flip side, most are the greediest Tea Partiers on earth. They don't care about the union, they only care about themselves.

And what blows my mind is that these guys politically align themselves with people who hate unions, and the UAW, with a passion. Very strange.

[Machine Man]

And what blows my mind is that these guys politically align themselves with people who hate unions, and the UAW, with a passion. Very strange.

 

 

Len_A you see it all the time in the plant. People disconnected from reality. Don't blame them when what they do and who they vote for turn around and screw the unions.

[Hard Driver]

Just out of curiosity, have you guys ever seriously talked about unionizing? I have heard you could not be represented by the UAW but if that is true, why not another union?

 

My father retired from management at Ford. I discussed this with him once and his response was that plenty of salaried people would have been interested in unionizing, the problem was that those who would begin the process were afraid of being the " sacrificial lambs".

[lovelincolns]

My father retired from management at Ford. I discussed this with him once and his response was that plenty of salaried people would have been interested in unionizing, the problem was that those who would begin the process were afraid of being the " sacrificial lambs".

That seems to be a major problem that organizers face all over the country. The laws against acts of fear, intimidation and retribution when trying to unionize need to be strengthened tremendously with severe punitive penalties against companies that are guilty of doing so. Even with strong laws in place it might be hard to prove things but it would be a place to start.

[Len_A]

That seems to be a major problem that organizers face all over the country. The laws against acts of fear, intimidation and retribution when trying to unionize need to be strengthened tremendously with severe punitive penalties against companies that are guilty of doing so. Even with strong laws in place it might be hard to prove things but it would be a place to start.

It's not just that. It's also that the National Labor Relations Act says that no company has to recognized anyone, the Act defines as a supervisor, as an employee for the purposes of collective bargaining. That's how one of the three Detroit casinos successfully fought attempts by floor supervisors to unionize. One of the easiest tactics to prevent white collar personnel from unionizing is to take the loudest advocates of unionizing, and promote them first to a supervisory role, there-by eliminating their voices from the number of pro-union advocates. Then after the attempt to unionize has died, fire them. It's been a very effective tactic, and it's purely legal.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Len_A

[LAP89]

I know exactly where you're coming from, although I really doubt that there are any International Reps here - the political fallout from actually doing that, if they got caught, would be unbelievably bad for the union, and trust me, the UAW's reputation is bad enough as it is.

 

I agree with you - the profit sharing should be even better, especially given that someone decided to tap into to it, to supplement the finding of the VEBA (and understand this - my Dad retired from DSP, and the VEBA hit my Mom & Dad real hard). The question now, is whether that could be done, if the contract is rejected. It depends, it's an incredibly risky strategy, and it depends on a the possibility of a strike. Right now, profit sharing is going to give the average UAW member some money that he didn't get when the company was losing money and you guys took it the ass with the concessions that itsmeuaw listed.

 

The risk is that the company & unions image takes a big enough hit that it starts costing sales. Whether you UAW members want to acknowledge that, whether you want to believe it, it's an incredibly valid risk that not only exists, but has been festering since things started turning around for the company. All you have to do is look at the what gets posted else where, like WSJ. Com, MarketWatch.com, Autoblog, anytime Ford's success gets mentioned - you have a hgh percentage of posters claiming that Ford's in the UAW's cross-hairs and it's only a matter of time before all the greedy, lazy UAW members go after Ford, and punish them for going bankrupt and allowing the crooked, communist Obama administration steal the company from it's bondholders and give it to the UAW, etc, etc,etc, ad nauseum.

 

The fact is, it's so freaking bad a risk, it might be better for the company to stand up to the NO voters, and tell everyone to go to hell. In fact, if it looks like they might try to break the union, you may get good publicity brownie points from the public for it. That's how bad a good portion of the new customers that are buying Ford still hate the UAW. And that would be coming from a car company with a historically good relationship with the union. It's scary.

 

Take this from someone with a lot of expertise in sales and marketing - trying to get these people to put aside their hatred of the UAW and still buy a Ford is like trying to convince the die hard "NO" voters, like itsmeuaw, that he's wrong and should reconsider his position. The question is who can live without who. We know the customers have other car makers to buy from. Do we have replacement customers if they walk away from Ford? My answer is no, we don't, and we can't find them.

 

I think most if not all of what you say is true.That is why I have never understood over the years when the company wanted to negotiate through the media and try to make the uaw look bad. Most of the people I know that drive foreign cars say they will never buy a uaw built car. This hurts the auto company's as much or more than their employees. The media is controlled by union haters so no matter what we do we will be hated. Bob King needs to realize that and stop trying so hard to change the media's opinion. It is a battle that can not be won.

In this round of negotiations I felt he was worried to much about what the media thought and not enough about the uaw workers. He sabotaged these negotiations before they even started when he was telling the media that we knew we were not going to get raises or our concessions back. I am giving him the benefit of doubt and believe he is just a very poor negotiator and not a corporate suckass.

Although I understand why the contract cheerleaders feel the way they do I will be voting no. For some people this is a good contract but for a lot of others it is not. The improved profit sharing formula will possibly end up paying less to a lot of people. For 2nd tier workers and those in a plant that never works any OT they will probably get more. For skilled trades and people at plants working a lot of mandatory overtime they will probably get less. Also I believe the skilled trades are going to be hurt big time by this contract. It is indefensible that our skilled trades forced to production loose their skilled pay unlike GM and Chrysler.

If we can not get any of our concessions back when ford is making huge profits and growing we never will. Also as soon as the next downturn comes we will loosing more.

In this contract the most important thing I was looking for was that NOBODY looses anything. Not that overall it has more good than bad. I have always felt that one of the most important benefits of a union is that you stick together and do not allow the company to single groups out to take away from. That is why I voted against the contract that established 2nd tier workers. The company will continue to divide us and take away from us any way they can. As long as there are enough people who think I got mine so everything is ok we will continue to loose in different areas and eventually they will be coming for you to.

[MTP'er]

You've read the white pages already? Now, that's a fucking joke!

 

 

Is that you chucky???

[10 Digits]

I think most if not all of what you say is true.That is why I have never understood over the years when the company wanted to negotiate through the media and try to make the uaw look bad. Most of the people I know that drive foreign cars say they will never buy a uaw built car. This hurts the auto company's as much or more than their employees. The media is controlled by union haters so no matter what we do we will be hated. Bob King needs to realize that and stop trying so hard to change the media's opinion. It is a battle that can not be won.

In this round of negotiations I felt he was worried to much about what the media thought and not enough about the uaw workers. He sabotaged these negotiations before they even started when he was telling the media that we knew we were not going to get raises or our concessions back. I am giving him the benefit of doubt and believe he is just a very poor negotiator and not a corporate suckass.

Although I understand why the contract cheerleaders feel the way they do I will be voting no. For some people this is a good contract but for a lot of others it is not. The improved profit sharing formula will possibly end up paying less to a lot of people. For 2nd tier workers and those in a plant that never works any OT they will probably get more. For skilled trades and people at plants working a lot of mandatory overtime they will probably get less. Also I believe the skilled trades are going to be hurt big time by this contract. It is indefensible that our skilled trades forced to production loose their skilled pay unlike GM and Chrysler.

If we can not get any of our concessions back when ford is making huge profits and growing we never will. Also as soon as the next downturn comes we will loosing more.

In this contract the most important thing I was looking for was that NOBODY looses anything. Not that overall it has more good than bad. I have always felt that one of the most important benefits of a union is that you stick together and do not allow the company to single groups out to take away from. That is why I voted against the contract that established 2nd tier workers. The company will continue to divide us and take away from us any way they can. As long as there are enough people who think I got mine so everything is ok we will continue to loose in different areas and eventually they will be coming for you to.

 

 

I don't see anybody losing anything. There is a lot to like. Because of this contract the Rouge will save DDMP, DSP and DEP and the Tool & Die group gets some help. I am sure other plants are getting the same or more.

[Sharp Shooter]

I don't see anybody losing anything. There is a lot to like. Because of this contract the Rouge will save DDMP, DSP and DEP and the Tool & Die group gets some help. I am sure other plants are getting the same or more.

 

 

You are right, there is a lot of work coming into our plants with this contract.

[TBodette68]

You are right, there is a lot of work coming into our plants with this contract.

Just the same old smoke and mirrors. Read the 2007 agreement and tell me how much of that agreement was done. VOTE NO !!

[Sharp Shooter]

Just the same old smoke and mirrors. Read the 2007 agreement and tell me how much of that agreement was done. VOTE NO !!

 

 

Again, I ask how a union hating Ron Paul supporter is telling us to vote no on this contract?

[TBodette68]

Again, I ask how a union hating Ron Paul supporter is telling us to vote no on this contract?

 

I don't hate the union.But if you would have seen half the corruption that has taken place over the years that I have seen you would agree with me.The team that negotiated this contract has ex salaried on it. Its a bad agreement and they should be ashamed that it has been agreed to by the IUAW. VOTE NO...make them go back and do it right.

[LAP89]

I don't see anybody losing anything. There is a lot to like. Because of this contract the Rouge will save DDMP, DSP and DEP and the Tool & Die group gets some help. I am sure other plants are getting the same or more.

 

Everyone will be losing legal services. A lot of people will be getting less under the new improved profit sharing formula than they would under the old formula. All Temporary Concessions that were suspended in 2009 will be made permanent. Skilled trades will loose a lot of jobs with the mechanical work groups and will have the choice of hitting the streets or working in production for $4.50 an hour less than the trades rate even though GM and Chrysler trades keep there pay. The retires lose the Christmas bonus.

You can spin it any way you want there are people who will be getting less profit sharing with this contract and we all lose legal services.

[Pulse]

Everyone will be losing legal services. A lot of people will be getting less under the new improved profit sharing formula than they would under the old formula. All Temporary Concessions that were suspended in 2009 will be made permanent. Skilled trades will loose a lot of jobs with the mechanical work groups and will have the choice of hitting the streets or working in production for $4.50 an hour less than the trades rate even though GM and Chrysler trades keep there pay. The retires lose the Christmas bonus.

You can spin it any way you want there are people who will be getting less profit sharing with this contract and we all lose legal services.

 

Can I pick this apart? Yep...

 

Everyone will be losing legal services. Over ninety percent of our members pay more from the ubiquitous tax than they benefit...and you have time to utilize what service they are good for. A lot of people will be getting less under the new improved profit sharing formula than they would under the old formula.Come to work and put in your hours...you'll get double... All Temporary Concessions that were suspended in 2009 will be made permanent.Not... [/b]Skilled trades will loose a lot of jobs with the mechanical work groups]Those groups are there mainly for FCSD locations...our plant trades will not work a cyclical line... [/b]and will have the choice of hitting the streets or working in production for $4.50 an hour less[/i]$50,000 buy down if they feel the need... than the trades rate even though GM and Chrysler trades keep there pay.WRONG...GM fixed that and Chrysler hasn't came out with the details of a tentative agreement... The retires lose the Christmas bonus.]EEERRRR...the fund doesn't have it to give this year...the language is still there for the life of the agreement.

 

You can spin it any way you want there are people who will be getting less profit sharing with this contract and we all lose legal services.Already been addressed...the truth hurts if you are objectionable to it...

Edited October 11, 2011 by Pulse

[4Real?]

"UAW negotiatiors hit it out of the park"

 

 

 

You can't vote Chucky, you were fired. But, you post a lot of shit on this site. BTW, I and my brothers are voting yes and we can actually vote on the contract you dumb ass.