sun3 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 has anyone noticed that retirees got NOTHING?!?!? do we not all want to retire someday and have a decent contract?!?!?! they lost their only bonus, got no increase in wages--HELLO!!! if we don't protect them-we are not protecting ourselves!!! wake up everyone, we all want to have good retirements too!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 has anyone noticed that retirees got NOTHING?!?!? do we not all want to retire someday and have a decent contract?!?!?! they lost their only bonus, got no increase in wages--HELLO!!! if we don't protect them-we are not protecting ourselves!!! wake up everyone, we all want to have good retirements too!!! I don't think the retirees got anything four years ago, either. I may be wrong on that, but I don't think they got much of anything. Anyway, it doesn't matter, because I think the days of the retirees getting a bump up in their pension payments are over. In case you haven't noticed, not only has COLA gone by the wayside for us, but you haven't heard squat form the union about doing that for the retirees either. From what many of my non automotive neighbors and relatives say, both union and non union, the whole idea of getting a pension, then getting a bump up in the monthly payments, or getting the Christmas, bonus, or for that matter a Thanksgiving turkey, annoyed them to no end. The white collar types always asked me how I could expect a company to manage something like a pension fund if the payments went up every four years. Honestly, I never could answer it back then, and I can't now. Realistically, that's what the TESPHE - to build up some extra money outside of the pension. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe898 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 has anyone noticed that retirees got NOTHING?!?!? do we not all want to retire someday and have a decent contract?!?!?! they lost their only bonus, got no increase in wages--HELLO!!! if we don't protect them-we are not protecting ourselves!!! wake up everyone, we all want to have good retirements too!!! alot of these people are so blindsided buy the signing bonus that they only see todays small picture not the big picture of us ,if we even get to retirement age ------we fucked up last contract by voting in low tier wages---what happens when there is more of them than us ---- we opened the flood gates with the 80 20 high low tier---- sooner or later company gonna want more low tier ---then all low tier-----we owe it to the retirees to keep status quo or better! we are reaping many of the benefits that they fought and even went on strike for! buy us voting yes on any deal that is not good for retirees is not good for me! not to mention that this deal sucks all around! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 alot of these people are so blindsided buy the signing bonus that they only see todays small picture not the big picture of us ,if we even get to retirement age ------we fucked up last contract by voting in low tier wages---what happens when there is more of them than us ---- we opened the flood gates with the 80 20 high low tier---- sooner or later company gonna want more low tier ---then all low tier-----we owe it to the retirees to keep status quo or better! we are reaping many of the benefits that they fought and even went on strike for! buy us voting yes on any deal that is not good for retirees is not good for me! not to mention that this deal sucks all around! So, you don't care if turning down this contract pisses away all the good will that Ford and the IUAW Ford rank-and-file built up over the last two years? Real smart...NOT! You seem to forget that all our side of the auto industry's laundry was hung out for the whole country to see, two years ago. In this economy, with just under 10% unemployment, you want to take a contract that is paying people upfront money to stay on the job, just, what, a month after people in Kentucky lined up for blocks for a lottery, just to get a chance to apply for one of those low tier wage jobs, and you want to publicly make an ass of us all by voting it down? You got to be kidding, right? And then, after GM, Ford, and Chrysler lost nearly half their combined market share, you want to bring up our dad's generations strikes and what they fought for, and on and on. The economy that our dad worked and fought under doesn't exist anymore. Piss people off, by looking greedy, and they got plenty of non-union made car choices to pick from. As crappy as our jobs seem, we're still better paid, and have better benefits, than 95% of the people, and I'm sorry about my Local 600 retiree Mom & Dad, but the fact that they even have a pension is better than at least half the people their age, and I don't know ANY other group of retirees other retired Big Three UAW members, who ever got their monthly pension payments increased every contract time, increased over the amount they were VESTED in to receive. Yours is EXACTLY the kind of ass backward bullshit greedy mentality that makes non auto workers, union and non union alike, hate us all with a passion. Your level of ignorance is un-fucking-believable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe898 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 So, you don't care if turning down this contract pisses away all the good will that Ford and the IUAW Ford rank-and-file built up over the last two years? Real smart...NOT! You seem to forget that all our side of the auto industry's laundry was hung out for the whole country to see, two years ago. In this economy, with just under 10% unemployment, you want to take a contract that is paying people upfront money to stay on the job, just, what, a month after people in Kentucky lined up for blocks for a lottery, just to get a chance to apply for one of those low tier wage jobs, and you want to publicly make an ass of us all by voting it down? You got to be kidding, right? And then, after GM, Ford, and Chrysler lost nearly half their combined market share, you want to bring up our dad's generations strikes and what they fought for, and on and on. The economy that our dad worked and fought under doesn't exist anymore. Piss people off, by looking greedy, and they got plenty of non-union made car choices to pick from. As crappy as our jobs seem, we're still better paid, and have better benefits, than 95% of the people, and I'm sorry about my Local 600 retiree Mom & Dad, but the fact that they even have a pension is better than at least half the people their age, and I don't know ANY other group of retirees other retired Big Three UAW members, who ever got their monthly pension payments increased every contract time, increased over the amount they were VESTED in to receive. Yours is EXACTLY the kind of ass backward bullshit greedy mentality that makes non auto workers, union and non union alike, hate us all with a passion. Your level of ignorance is un-fucking-believable. its asswipes like you that will help lower the middleclass every contract until there is no middleclass or retirement left not to mention union! my parents fought for the benefits that you dont seem to mind letting go of because your afraid of public peception-----wow if i was not union looking at somone willing to fight for retirees and previous benefits lost id stand behind them ------- you are a pussy asswipe so fuck off 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Wahrheit Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 has anyone noticed that retirees got NOTHING?!?!? do we not all want to retire someday and have a decent contract?!?!?! they lost their only bonus, got no increase in wages--HELLO!!! if we don't protect them-we are not protecting ourselves!!! wake up everyone, we all want to have good retirements too!!! They had over 30 years to tuck away a nest egg but they decided to squander it! Its our turn now to have sum fun and spend our money the way we want it. GET YOUR HAND OUT OF MY POCKET!!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 its asswipes like you that will help lower the middleclass every contract until there is no middleclass or retirement left not to mention union! my parents fought for the benefits that you dont seem to mind letting go of because your afraid of public peception-----wow if i was not union looking at somone willing to fight for retirees and previous benefits lost id stand behind them ------- you are a pussy asswipe so fuck off Listen, moron, bad public opinion = low cars sales = layoffs. Simple enough for you to understand? Ultimate lesson of history, including recent union history, is that without favorable public opinion, and the resulting car sales, we have no fucking jobs. Period. Public that never had our level of benefits could care less about your "fight" to retain what the public doesn't want to pay for by buying our cars. They'd rather give their business to Toyota, Honda, etc. Try get out of Livonia once in a while, and go down to Ohio, to the Heinz plant in Fremont, just 30 minutes east of Toledo, and see how many United Commercial Food Workers union members drive Honda's. Go to Napoleon, OH, to the Campbell's plant, just 45 minutes south west off Toledo, right on the Maumee River, and see how many of the same union rank-and-file drive Honda's and Toyota's. Then tell them how they should buy a Ford so they can support your fight to retain your daddy's level of benefits, that these guys never saw in their lifetime. Go down to Cincinnati, where our brothers and sisters lost jobs at Sharonville and Batavia, and see how many people drive fucking Toyota's and then tell me, motherfucker, how public perception isn't important. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 They had over 30 years to tuck away a nest egg but they decided to squander it! Its our turn now to have sum fun and spend our money the way we want it. GET YOUR HAND OUT OF MY POCKET!!!!! Well said!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe898 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Well said!! apperently sho driver drivin us to the poor house cause hes a fuckin idiot and die weienerhart is too ----- goodluck with all that asswipes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 apperently sho driver drivin us to the poor house cause hes a fuckin idiot and die weienerhart is too ----- goodluck with all that asswipes Dude, use spell check once in a while, or better yet, a browser like Firefox or Chrome that underlines misspelled words for you, so you can go back and correct them. You might actually post something intelligent once in a while...now, wait...forgot who I was talking to... "intelligent" and "usedtobe898"...not getting along well these day. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCAPFINAL Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 has anyone noticed that retirees got NOTHING?!?!? do we not all want to retire someday and have a decent contract?!?!?! they lost their only bonus, got no increase in wages--HELLO!!! if we don't protect them-we are not protecting ourselves!!! wake up everyone, we all want to have good retirements too!!! retirement if you have less than 20 years don't plan on a 30 and out its a simple fact your skrewed i kinda feel the pain of the second tier wage people why should i pay for you when its not going to be there for me the new american dream work till you drop dead :happy feet: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Dude, use spell check once in a while, or better yet, a browser like Firefox or Chrome that underlines misspelled words for you, so you can go back and correct them. You might actually post something intelligent once in a while...now, wait...forgot who I was talking to... "intelligent" and "usedtobe898"...not getting along well these day. ROFLMAO!!!! +1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stampman Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 its asswipes like you that will help lower the middleclass every contract until there is no middleclass or retirement left not to mention union! my parents fought for the benefits that you dont seem to mind letting go of because your afraid of public peception-----wow if i was not union looking at somone willing to fight for retirees and previous benefits lost id stand behind them ------- you are a pussy asswipe so fuck off If your so concerned about the retirees getting a bump in pay, donate your bonus to them , dickhead. There are people with 40 plus yrs that wait for each contract to get an extra $50 a month. Maybe if they realize they are not going to get a raise every contract, they will retire.They, like us are lucky the get a pension. No other companies are giving them any longer. Get your head out of your ass... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragster Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 If your so concerned about the retirees getting a bump in pay, donate your bonus to them , dickhead. There are people with 40 plus yrs that wait for each contract to get an extra $50 a month. Maybe if they realize they are not going to get a raise every contract, they will retire.They, like us are lucky the get a pension. No other companies are giving them any longer. Get your head out of your ass... The retirees did not get any cuts and from what I've been told on the VEBA, they will receive some improvements. It has been in the press that there are about 10 retirees for every active working union member. It is not financially possible for the active employees to give up or pay something for retirees. That would mean one worker would have to come up with 10X the money for retirees. For a $250 bonus for retirees, each active employee would have to give up $2500. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sun3 Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 So, you don't care if turning down this contract pisses away all the good will that Ford and the IUAW Ford rank-and-file built up over the last two years? Real smart...NOT! You seem to forget that all our side of the auto industry's laundry was hung out for the whole country to see, two years ago. In this economy, with just under 10% unemployment, you want to take a contract that is paying people upfront money to stay on the job, just, what, a month after people in Kentucky lined up for blocks for a lottery, just to get a chance to apply for one of those low tier wage jobs, and you want to publicly make an ass of us all by voting it down? You got to be kidding, right? And then, after GM, Ford, and Chrysler lost nearly half their combined market share, you want to bring up our dad's generations strikes and what they fought for, and on and on. The economy that our dad worked and fought under doesn't exist anymore. Piss people off, by looking greedy, and they got plenty of non-union made car choices to pick from. As crappy as our jobs seem, we're still better paid, and have better benefits, than 95% of the people, and I'm sorry about my Local 600 retiree Mom & Dad, but the fact that they even have a pension is better than at least half the people their age, and I don't know ANY other group of retirees other retired Big Three UAW members, who ever got their monthly pension payments increased every contract time, increased over the amount they were VESTED in to receive. Yours is EXACTLY the kind of ass backward bullshit greedy mentality that makes non auto workers, union and non union alike, hate us all with a passion. Your level of ignorance is un-fucking-believable. I guess I didn't get my point across very well. I didn't mean that retirees should get a raise, I just meant that they lost things. They have received a bonus each year in Dec. that I am sure helped them out through the holidays--or that they just had fun with. We get bonuses that they no longer get as active employees. This bonus has been taken back with this contract--why?? And what else will be taken back from people who have no voice before we get a chance to retire ourselves? We really need to pay attention because it is our future they are removing things from, as well as the people who fought to get us what we have!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I guess I didn't get my point across very well. I didn't mean that retirees should get a raise, I just meant that they lost things. They have received a bonus each year in Dec. that I am sure helped them out through the holidays--or that they just had fun with. We get bonuses that they no longer get as active employees. This bonus has been taken back with this contract--why?? And what else will be taken back from people who have no voice before we get a chance to retire ourselves? We really need to pay attention because it is our future they are removing things from, as well as the people who fought to get us what we have!!!! It's true, but they lost things that they weren't vested in to begin with. If that money comes out of the pension fund, it has to be accounted for, along with any gains or losses on the investments in that pension fund. If the money is not coming form the pension fund, then what they lost was something that they weren't vested in to begin with, and weren't really supposed to get. Look, I hear this from my Dad all the time, that when he retired in 1999, he was expecting that every contract, they would bump up the monthly pension payments, because "it was always done that way". But that was also back when Yokich and his predecessors were always talking about getting COLA for retirees, too. That shit always came up at contract negotiations, the company wouldn't go for it, but to appease everyone, they'd throw other shit in, like the Christmas bonus, etc. That, plus all the other stuff that the Big Three was paying for, that not one single other business in North America ever paid for, did what? Helped get them in trouble. Might not have been the direct cause, but it sure as hell didn't help. How many non automotive people, observing our industry and how GM, Ford & Chrysler fit into that industry, not professional analysts, but John Q. Public individual investor and observer, has looked at all these things pumping money out of the company, and have said that if it was put into product instead, maybe, just maybe, the Detroit car companies wouldn't have been in such a hard way two to five years ago? Someone once said that the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again, but expect a different result. We all got bitch slapped two, three and four years ago ,with the contract four years ago, and all the mods that came afterward. GM & Chrysler near death experience nearly killed the suppliers that we depend on. Three industry CEO's went to Washington, two hat-in-hand, and the third, Mulally, there to support the case the other two were making for government help, and everything on how we get paid, the benefits, work rules, every fucking thing, was aired out for the world to see, and customers who never knew about jobs banks, Cola, and retiree health care, all heard about shit that they could never hope to get in their lifetime, and started thinking "these clowns actually expect me to buy their shit cars and trucks, so I can pay for them to get stuff that I'll never get? I don't fucking think so!" I can't even begin to tell how many of my own out-of-state relatives emailed me statements along those lines, and that's coming from family! It's a brave new fucking world out here. Internet helps make everybody a G*d D*mn expert on our business, and Internet helps inform them of things that I, for one, would rather they never knew about. We can't afford to go back to the old practices, and the retirees and soon-to-retire are going to have to suck it up and live with it, just like the rest of us grunts. It's the new "normal". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) It's a brave new fucking world out here. Internet helps make everybody a G*d D*mn expert on our business, and Internet helps inform them of things that I, for one, would rather they never knew about. We can't afford to go back to the old practices, and the retirees and soon-to-retire are going to have to suck it up and live with it, just like the rest of us grunts. It's the new "normal". If you are a retiree... You worked 30+ Years. You voted on 8 or 9 contracts. Each one contained trade-offs. When pensions were offered and enhanced over the years, you did so with the expectation that it was better to get enhanced retirement in lieu of instant gratification. What benefits could you have had, how much in wages and cash "perks" did you exchange for promises of a comfortable retirement. There was a time when we, the working proudly protected and supported our retirees, the ones who had fought and bled for the benefits we were, and today still are, enjoying. But the avarice of today's thankless, soul-less, greedy "brothers and sisters" not only throws the retirees out into the cold, but they throw their "brothers and sisters" at other plants out as well. And short-shortsightedly, neglect to consider their future will someday be in the hands of those "Entry Level" new hires who will learn from our example of how to treat ones predecessors. All in the name of, "I get $10,000 by Christmas." "I got job security." "I got new product. I got......" How do the rest of you sleep at night? I hope the children of these idiots with no intentions of ever becoming a Ford retiree raised their children to think differently. The children will select the nursing home for them, someday. In solidarity, brother. . Edited October 7, 2011 by FiredMotorCompany 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Sho_Driver stop peddling your bS crap on this forum. Your just a IUAW idiot trying to keep his desk job, we all see it and the membership sees it, when was the last time the IUAW really fought to get us something good in a contract? 2001 I think it was.. As for your thinking on retirees, your an idiot if you think they don't deserve a raise, we need to take care of these people, some of us can't afford to buy a home and have to live at home in our parents basement because the IUAW can't get us more money at signing time not to mention our concessions back. When you get these back for us, then you can come in here and sling your BS. ]this contract sucks I'm voting NO (with one hand tied behind my back) you can tie it, but you cant stop me boys!.. BTW I'll be following those boxes after hours to see where they go.. Just because I'm a factory rat with an education (and I never stopped going to school, either), and can string six words together in a coherent sentence, doesn't mean I work for the IUAW. If you're a seniority employ, Tier One, and you still live in your parents basement, then you have problems past what a contract to your standards can solve. Just saying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 If you are a retiree... You worked 30+ Years. You voted on 8 or 9 contracts. Each one contained trade-offs. When pensions were offered and enhanced over the years, you did so with the expectation that it was better to get enhanced retirement in lieu of instant gratification. What benefits could you have had, how much in wages and cash "perks" did you exchange for promises of a comfortable retirement. There was a time when we, the working proudly protected and supported our retirees, the ones who had fought and bled for the benefits we were, and today still are, enjoying. But the avarice of today's thankless, soul-less, greedy "brothers and sisters" not only throws the retirees out into the cold, but they throw their "brothers and sisters" at other plants out as well. And short-shortsightedly, neglect to consider their future will someday be in the hands of those "Entry Level" new hires who will learn from our example of how to treat ones predecessors. All in the name of, "I get $10,000 by Christmas." "I got job security." "I got new product. I got......" How do the rest of you sleep at night? I hope the children of these idiots with no intentions of ever becoming a Ford retiree raised their children to think differently. The children will select the nursing home for them, someday. In solidarity, brother. . What you're saying is true, but it ignores an important, and over riding, fact and that is the world we work in has changed. The conditions under which the IUAW negotiates with Ford has changed. We don't have the market share we once had, we can't just rack up costs on Ford and expect Ford to pass them on to the customer, and in many cases, our customers are down right hostile to us blue collar Ford employees. Go read the comments posted on the Wall Street Journal site, where people have to post under their real names, and see how they claim that the IUAW has it out for Ford, to torpedo the company, so in these "enlightened" peoples opinions, the union can take over the company, like these educated idiots say the union did at GM & Chrysler, of course with the administrations help, because somehow, a union that has now, what, 300,000 members, can somehow deliver the votes to get him re-elected, etc, etc, not meaning to digress into the political. These people maybe babbling idiots, but the reach of their influence on other car buyers is farther and deeper than guys like you and & I can ever hope to have. Absolute bottom fucking line, indisputably IMHO, is that we can't afford the publicity from "fighting for" and "achieving" the things you want to go after, and if you got your way, we'd piss away all the good will that is summed up, in part, by the words in bold at the top of this forum's home page: Ford...not built with your tax dollars. If we do that, piss away the great reputation that Ford has now, nothing is going to help the current retirees, the future retirees or any of the workers, active or ILO. Period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poop Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) some of us can't afford to buy a home and have to live at home in our parents basement because the IUAW can't get us more money at signing time not to mention our concessions back. :hysterical2: :hysterical2: :hysterical2: :hysterical2: :hysterical2: :hysterical2: :hysterical2: :hysterical2: :hysterical2: :hysterical2: :hysterical2: LMAO dude, you are voting no because you live in your parents basement?!?!?!?! you should take that signing bonus and hire a financial planner Edited October 7, 2011 by poop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) What you're saying is true, but it ignores an important, and over riding, fact and that is the world we work in has changed. The conditions under which the IUAW negotiates with Ford has changed. We don't have the market share we once had, we can't just rack up costs on Ford and expect Ford to pass them on to the customer, and in many cases, our customers are down right hostile to us blue collar Ford employees. Go read the comments posted on the Wall Street Journal site, where people have to post under their real names, and see how they claim that the IUAW has it out for Ford, to torpedo the company, so in these "enlightened" peoples opinions, the union can take over the company, like these educated idiots say the union did at GM & Chrysler, of course with the administrations help, because somehow, a union that has now, what, 300,000 members, can somehow deliver the votes to get him re-elected, etc, etc, not meaning to digress into the political. These people maybe babbling idiots, but the reach of their influence on other car buyers is farther and deeper than guys like you and & I can ever hope to have. Absolute bottom fucking line, indisputably IMHO, is that we can't afford the publicity from "fighting for" and "achieving" the things you want to go after, and if you got your way, we'd piss away all the good will that is summed up, in part, by the words in bold at the top of this forum's home page: Ford...not built with your tax dollars. If we do that, piss away the great reputation that Ford has now, nothing is going to help the current retirees, the future retirees or any of the workers, active or ILO. Period. For arguments sake, all benefits we take for granted are paid from a fund, essentially established to cover the cost of our employment. The company makes a point to hand out a booklet reminding us that our employment costs go beyond our hourly rate. The IUAW and the company spread those funds across the spectrum of benefits offered and hope to sell the package to the membership. The point I am making is you are selling out those "minority votes from closing plants and non-voting eligible retirees" so you get more in YOUR pocket. Who cannot understand that if the company and the IUAW spent the exact same amount, but it was allocated differently, WHSP and retirees could be accommodated, as a TRUE UNION should. We call ourselves a "family". God, what a grizzly cold-blooded family I am surrounded by! Edited October 7, 2011 by FiredMotorCompany 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Sho_Driver stop peddling your bS crap on this forum. Your just a IUAW idiot trying to keep his desk job, we all see it and the membership sees it, when was the last time the IUAW really fought to get us something good in a contract? 2001 I think it was.. As for your thinking on retirees, your an idiot if you think they don't deserve a raise, we need to take care of these people, some of us can't afford to buy a home and have to live at home in our parents basement because the IUAW can't get us more money at signing time not to mention our concessions back. When you get these back for us, then you can come in here and sling your BS. this contract sucks I'm voting NO (with one hand tied behind my back) you can tie it, but you cant stop me boys!.. BTW I'll be following those boxes after hours to see where they go.. You can pretend to vote NO on here all you want "Jack Wagon"...good luck trying to get back into the plant/local to vote! You are no longer on the roles... Will they let you buy the Whopper you make with Monopoly money??? Dolt!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I don't but it was a point I was trying to make. People are under water with their homes, nothing a 3k bonus is going to solve when the CEO's of Ford are making 1500 times the average American worker, how do you justify that? How do you justify not getting back concessions of 2007-08 and then think this contact will pass. We had a voice before, and mark my words it will be a stronger one this time. Good luck with your college education, working as a factory rat it really did you some good I see.. lol I didn't intend to be a factory rat, but after graduating from U of M Dearborn, and going through all the crappy interviews to get an entry level white collar business job that paid less in 1983 than what the Tier Two are getting now, left a bad taste in my mouth. Add to that the actual working pressure of the job and I took what I thought was the easy route - Dad got me in, I married my high school/college sweetheart, and started a family, something I couldn't have afforded to do if I stayed white collar. Over the years I've stayed in touch with a lot of my college buddies - even for those who make more money than us, I wouldn't trade the last twenty-five plus years for anything they have. Buddies who either put off a family to get an MBA, or worked on the MBA while they were married, only to end up divorced and having no idea who their kids are. Then in the big ass downturn since 2007, some of them got canned BECAUSE as an MBA, they made more and the company wanted to replace them on the cheap. And one of those companies was Ford. No fucking thanks. Be that as it may, I never stopped my education, no many how many times I was told that I should pursue a supervisors job. Again, no thanks. Doesn't mean that I'm unaware of what the rest of the real world pays in income and benefits, not this fantasy world so many IUAW brothers and sisters still seem to think we're living in. For all the shit we've had to stomach, for all we've taken in the ass the last few years, we're still at the top of the middle class heap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 For arguments sake, all benefits we take for granted are paid from a fund, essentially established to cover the cost of our employment. The company makes a point to hand out a booklet reminding us that our employment costs go beyond our hourly rate. The IUAW and the company spread those funds across the spectrum of benefits offered and hope to sell the package to the membership. The point I am making is you are selling out those "minority votes from closing plants and non-voting eligible retirees" so you get more in YOUR pocket. Who cannot understand that if the company and the IUAW spent the exact same amount, but it was allocated differently, WHSP and retirees could be accommodated, as a TRUE UNION should. We call ourselves a "family". God, what a grizzly cold-blooded family I am surrounded by! I understand where you're coming from , my brother, but do you realize that among those out there who vilify us on a regular basis, there are other union members putting us down and spewing their vile hatred in our direction? "Solidarity" isn't what it used to be, and I've grown to wonder if it really ever existed, or if it was another myth promoted by our parents generation and the powers that be within organized labor. Think about this, my IUAW brother - if we ever really had any real solidarity worth a shit, would our Canadian brethren ever have split off from us? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I didn't intend to be a factory rat, but after graduating from U of M Dearborn, and going through all the crappy interviews to get an entry level white collar business job that paid less in 1983 than what the Tier Two are getting now, left a bad taste in my mouth. Add to that the actual working pressure of the job and I took what I thought was the easy route - Dad got me in, I married my high school/college sweetheart, and started a family, something I couldn't have afforded to do if I stayed white collar. Over the years I've stayed in touch with a lot of my college buddies - even for those who make more money than us, I wouldn't trade the last twenty-five plus years for anything they have. Buddies who either put off a family to get an MBA, or worked on the MBA while they were married, only to end up divorced and having no idea who their kids are. Then in the big ass downturn since 2007, some of them got canned BECAUSE as an MBA, they made more and the company wanted to replace them on the cheap. And one of those companies was Ford. No fucking thanks. Be that as it may, I never stopped my education, no many how many times I was told that I should pursue a supervisors job. Again, no thanks. Doesn't mean that I'm unaware of what the rest of the real world pays in income and benefits, not this fantasy world so many IUAW brothers and sisters still seem to think we're living in. For all the shit we've had to stomach, for all we've taken in the ass the last few years, we're still at the top of the middle class heap. Good Shit Brother!!!... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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