objectsinmirror Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hello all, It's been a long time since my last post...YEARS. I've lurked on here at leat 3 times a week, all this time. It's good to see some of the "back in my day" posters are still out here. People like Pioneer, Bigredogre, whereswaldo, furious1auto, oh, and Trimdingman (by far my favorite poster), who gave me quite a laugh with this morning's post with the dental cost comment. Anyway, I'm already seeing coments about who's fault it will be in 4 years, and who's fault it will be if we went on strike. The fact is, if we went on strike, it WOULD be the NO voters fault, or ehh victory, depending on the outcome. If this contract passes, there is no telling what to expect in the next 4 years, EXCEPT, for the short term, (or long term?) , we will still go to work every week. Look, I've gone through alot in 17 years with Ford, but by far, the biggest thing was the CHOICE I had to make, to take a $100,000 buyout, education buyout, or keep working, hoping my plant didn't close or I had to be displaced to another plant. After agonizing for months over this, I came to a revelation...I came here to work, and I wasn't gonna let anyone FORCE me to make a choice,,,My choice was made when I hired in : I'm Gonna work here, till they THROW me out of here. I have to laugh, when people say thing like "Gary W is a republican insider," or imply that all the no voters are wide eyed crazy liberals, who would be better served, laying down on wall street and demostrating. I am so happy to see that the MODS have thrown out the political posters on this forum. BUT, nowadays, everything seems to become political. Personally, I think the employees of this company, are some of the best in the land, and we make some DAMN good products...With some DAMN good people. I Voted yes on this contract...if you voted no, I respect your vote (although I have not found one reason to agree)... Let's get this over with, and get working...we have a WORLD to "WOW".... Carry on...I'll be reading OIM 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hello all, It's been a long time since my last post...YEARS. I've lurked on here at leat 3 times a week, all this time. It's good to see some of the "back in my day" posters are still out here. People like Pioneer, Bigredogre, whereswaldo, furious1auto, oh, and Trimdingman (by far my favorite poster), who gave me quite a laugh with this morning's post with the dental cost comment. Anyway, I'm already seeing coments about who's fault it will be in 4 years, and who's fault it will be if we went on strike. The fact is, if we went on strike, it WOULD be the NO voters fault, or ehh victory, depending on the outcome. If this contract passes, there is no telling what to expect in the next 4 years, EXCEPT, for the short term, (or long term?) , we will still go to work every week. Look, I've gone through alot in 17 years with Ford, but by far, the biggest thing was the CHOICE I had to make, to take a $100,000 buyout, education buyout, or keep working, hoping my plant didn't close or I had to be displaced to another plant. After agonizing for months over this, I came to a revelation...I came here to work, and I wasn't gonna let anyone FORCE me to make a choice,,,My choice was made when I hired in : I'm Gonna work here, till they THROW me out of here. I have to laugh, when people say thing like "Gary W is a republican insider," or imply that all the no voters are wide eyed crazy liberals, who would be better served, laying down on wall street and demostrating. I am so happy to see that the MODS have thrown out the political posters on this forum. BUT, nowadays, everything seems to become political. Personally, I think the employees of this company, are some of the best in the land, and we make some DAMN good products...With some DAMN good people. I Voted yes on this contract...if you voted no, I respect your vote (although I have not found one reason to agree)... Let's get this over with, and get working...we have a WORLD to "WOW".... Carry on...I'll be reading OIM +1 My favorite post of the day. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imawhosure Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hello all, It's been a long time since my last post...YEARS. I've lurked on here at leat 3 times a week, all this time. It's good to see some of the "back in my day" posters are still out here. People like Pioneer, Bigredogre, whereswaldo, furious1auto, oh, and Trimdingman (by far my favorite poster), who gave me quite a laugh with this morning's post with the dental cost comment. Anyway, I'm already seeing coments about who's fault it will be in 4 years, and who's fault it will be if we went on strike. The fact is, if we went on strike, it WOULD be the NO voters fault, or ehh victory, depending on the outcome. If this contract passes, there is no telling what to expect in the next 4 years, EXCEPT, for the short term, (or long term?) , we will still go to work every week. Look, I've gone through alot in 17 years with Ford, but by far, the biggest thing was the CHOICE I had to make, to take a $100,000 buyout, education buyout, or keep working, hoping my plant didn't close or I had to be displaced to another plant. After agonizing for months over this, I came to a revelation...I came here to work, and I wasn't gonna let anyone FORCE me to make a choice,,,My choice was made when I hired in : I'm Gonna work here, till they THROW me out of here. I have to laugh, when people say thing like "Gary W is a republican insider," or imply that all the no voters are wide eyed crazy liberals, who would be better served, laying down on wall street and demostrating. I am so happy to see that the MODS have thrown out the political posters on this forum. BUT, nowadays, everything seems to become political. Personally, I think the employees of this company, are some of the best in the land, and we make some DAMN good products...With some DAMN good people. I Voted yes on this contract...if you voted no, I respect your vote (although I have not found one reason to agree)... Let's get this over with, and get working...we have a WORLD to "WOW".... Carry on...I'll be reading OIM I remember you Objects! You were a very good read for sure. Let me say that I believe the new UAW worker has no resemblence to his predecessor. He is connected by the internet to what is actually going on, and interpets it regardless of what some guy in a baseball cap with buttons tells him to think. The NEW UAW member knows that his/her outcome is tied to what the offshore non-UAW plants are doing, and want to know why those plants are NOT UAW. This is the new question many members ask! Everyone who has a brain knows you can't price yourself out of the market without a high possibility of failure, so they want to know why our supposed protection can not control that market. Complaints about what is happening is rampant. The difference today is that many members are smart enough to understand that the company does not do it because they are evil, but rather because to not do so puts our products behind profitabilty to Toyota, amongst others. Our members ask, "if we are about parity and we make more than they do, why won't Georgetown join?" That sir, is the 100,000 dollar question that the UAW avoids, and makes less than reasonable deals with its members to compensate for its inability to answer....just...that...question! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanginonWHSP Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hello all, It's been a long time since my last post...YEARS. I've lurked on here at leat 3 times a week, all this time. It's good to see some of the "back in my day" posters are still out here. People like Pioneer, Bigredogre, whereswaldo, furious1auto, oh, and Trimdingman (by far my favorite poster), who gave me quite a laugh with this morning's post with the dental cost comment. Anyway, I'm already seeing coments about who's fault it will be in 4 years, and who's fault it will be if we went on strike. The fact is, if we went on strike, it WOULD be the NO voters fault, or ehh victory, depending on the outcome. If this contract passes, there is no telling what to expect in the next 4 years, EXCEPT, for the short term, (or long term?) , we will still go to work every week. Look, I've gone through alot in 17 years with Ford, but by far, the biggest thing was the CHOICE I had to make, to take a $100,000 buyout, education buyout, or keep working, hoping my plant didn't close or I had to be displaced to another plant. After agonizing for months over this, I came to a revelation...I came here to work, and I wasn't gonna let anyone FORCE me to make a choice,,,My choice was made when I hired in : I'm Gonna work here, till they THROW me out of here. I have to laugh, when people say thing like "Gary W is a republican insider," or imply that all the no voters are wide eyed crazy liberals, who would be better served, laying down on wall street and demostrating. I am so happy to see that the MODS have thrown out the political posters on this forum. BUT, nowadays, everything seems to become political. Personally, I think the employees of this company, are some of the best in the land, and we make some DAMN good products...With some DAMN good people. I Voted yes on this contract...if you voted no, I respect your vote (although I have not found one reason to agree)... Let's get this over with, and get working...we have a WORLD to "WOW".... Carry on...I'll be reading OIM Man this is one of the best posts i've read, i too have been in the shadows since about 2004 right before i was sent to Lorain till it closed, and came back home to Walton hils, i was thinkin the same thing this morning with the old regulars, another name that comes to mind is imawhoosier, i was riveted to his posts, i remember when alotta folks took transfers from atlanta, and norfolk,. going up north.Its a rough decision to make, and you are right, i'm workin on 16 yrs, and now am faced with my plant closing, not a kid by any means, Trying to figure out what my next move will be , But you are right also that no matter how we vote, we have our reasons for doing so. Working up at Lorain, meeting some of the Avon folks right before the consolidation, and at Walton hills, i have worked with some of the finest people in the world.... I hope the best for all of us!!!!...no matter our individual circumstances..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectsinmirror Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 I remember you Objects! You were a very good read for sure. Let me say that I believe the new UAW worker has no resemblence to his predecessor. He is connected by the internet to what is actually going on, and interpets it regardless of what some guy in a baseball cap with buttons tells him to think. The NEW UAW member knows that his/her outcome is tied to what the offshore non-UAW plants are doing, and want to know why those plants are NOT UAW. This is the new question many members ask! Everyone who has a brain knows you can't price yourself out of the market without a high possibility of failure, so they want to know why our supposed protection can not control that market. Complaints about what is happening is rampant. The difference today is that many members are smart enough to understand that the company does not do it because they are evil, but rather because to not do so puts our products behind profitabilty to Toyota, amongst others. Our members ask, "if we are about parity and we make more than they do, why won't Georgetown join?" That sir, is the 100,000 dollar question that the UAW avoids, and makes less than reasonable deals with its members to compensate for its inability to answer....just...that...question! IMA!! , It's Sooo Good to hear from you. You've ALWAYS had such even minded comments...Good to see you out here, my friend... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectsinmirror Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Man this is one of the best posts i've read, i too have been in the shadows since about 2004 right before i was sent to Lorain till it closed, and came back home to Walton hils, i was thinkin the same thing this morning with the old regulars, another name that comes to mind is imawhoosier, i was riveted to his posts, i remember when alotta folks took transfers from atlanta, and norfolk,. going up north.Its a rough decision to make, and you are right, i'm workin on 16 yrs, and now am faced with my plant closing, not a kid by any means, Trying to figure out what my next move will be , But you are right also that no matter how we vote, we have our reasons for doing so. Working up at Lorain, meeting some of the Avon folks right before the consolidation, and at Walton hills, i have worked with some of the finest people in the world.... I hope the best for all of us!!!!...no matter our individual circumstances..... hanginon...I think you should do as your screen name says....Hang on. Michigan is an excellent state (so is Ohio), and it would be nice to have you up here, but I hope you get to stay near where you are...Thanks for your kudos...it feels nice to be back on here... OIM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeter3000 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Is this the Blame Game or the fucking love connection? I mean come on guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReDemption Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Great post objects, I remember those names from the “day” as well. Back in those days I was “TheUnionist” and man we had some good, sometimes heated debate. Good to see you’re posting again and glad to see you stuck it out with us. Be Good Jeff Hodges 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanginonWHSP Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Is this the Blame Game or the fucking love connection? I mean come on guys! Love connection!!!!!!....LMAO.......its sure nice to hear, and say some good things amidst all this shit going on ............Thanks i needed a laugh!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1993Stang Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) Hello all, It's been a long time since my last post...YEARS. I've lurked on here at leat 3 times a week, all this time. It's good to see some of the "back in my day" posters are still out here. People like Pioneer, Bigredogre, whereswaldo, furious1auto, oh, and Trimdingman (by far my favorite poster), who gave me quite a laugh with this morning's post with the dental cost comment. Anyway, I'm already seeing coments about who's fault it will be in 4 years, and who's fault it will be if we went on strike. The fact is, if we went on strike, it WOULD be the NO voters fault, or ehh victory, depending on the outcome. If this contract passes, there is no telling what to expect in the next 4 years, EXCEPT, for the short term, (or long term?) , we will still go to work every week. Look, I've gone through alot in 17 years with Ford, but by far, the biggest thing was the CHOICE I had to make, to take a $100,000 buyout, education buyout, or keep working, hoping my plant didn't close or I had to be displaced to another plant. After agonizing for months over this, I came to a revelation...I came here to work, and I wasn't gonna let anyone FORCE me to make a choice,,,My choice was made when I hired in : I'm Gonna work here, till they THROW me out of here. I have to laugh, when people say thing like "Gary W is a republican insider," or imply that all the no voters are wide eyed crazy liberals, who would be better served, laying down on wall street and demostrating. I am so happy to see that the MODS have thrown out the political posters on this forum. BUT, nowadays, everything seems to become political. Personally, I think the employees of this company, are some of the best in the land, and we make some DAMN good products...With some DAMN good people. I Voted yes on this contract...if you voted no, I respect your vote (although I have not found one reason to agree)... Let's get this over with, and get working...we have a WORLD to "WOW".... Carry on...I'll be reading OIM I'm just asking, but you are a team leader and you will be getting a raise? Edited October 17, 2011 by 1993Stang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectsinmirror Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 I'm just asking, but you are a team leader and you will be getting a raise? Why would that make a difference? If you were, and you were getting a raise, I'd be happy for you, although I would expect that you worked to earn it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanginonWHSP Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Why would that make a difference? If you were, and you were getting a raise, I'd be happy for you, although I would expect that you worked to earn it... Right on!!!!...and thanks for your reply... don't know what Ohios gonna hold.........until then i will most certainly be Hanginon....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1993Stang Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Why would that make a difference? If you were, and you were getting a raise, I'd be happy for you, although I would expect that you worked to earn it... No, I am not unhappy that you are getting a raise at all but the point is, you are getting one while the rest of the veteran employees are not so I would find it easier for you to say yes to the contract because you are getting a set raise something that is solid as opposed to something that might not happen like profit. So do you see why some might not want the contract to go thru. Either way stagnant wages are stagnant wages. Sadly, fighting for fairness in pay seemed to be what the union used to represent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmeuaw Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Hello all, It's been a long time since my last post...YEARS. I've lurked on here at leat 3 times a week, all this time. It's good to see some of the "back in my day" posters are still out here. People like Pioneer, Bigredogre, whereswaldo, furious1auto, oh, and Trimdingman (by far my favorite poster), who gave me quite a laugh with this morning's post with the dental cost comment. Anyway, I'm already seeing coments about who's fault it will be in 4 years, and who's fault it will be if we went on strike. The fact is, if we went on strike, it WOULD be the NO voters fault, or ehh victory, depending on the outcome. If this contract passes, there is no telling what to expect in the next 4 years, EXCEPT, for the short term, (or long term?) , we will still go to work every week. Look, I've gone through alot in 17 years with Ford, but by far, the biggest thing was the CHOICE I had to make, to take a $100,000 buyout, education buyout, or keep working, hoping my plant didn't close or I had to be displaced to another plant. After agonizing for months over this, I came to a revelation...I came here to work, and I wasn't gonna let anyone FORCE me to make a choice,,,My choice was made when I hired in : I'm Gonna work here, till they THROW me out of here. I have to laugh, when people say thing like "Gary W is a republican insider," or imply that all the no voters are wide eyed crazy liberals, who would be better served, laying down on wall street and demostrating. I am so happy to see that the MODS have thrown out the political posters on this forum. BUT, nowadays, everything seems to become political. Personally, I think the employees of this company, are some of the best in the land, and we make some DAMN good products...With some DAMN good people. I Voted yes on this contract...if you voted no, I respect your vote (although I have not found one reason to agree)... Let's get this over with, and get working...we have a WORLD to "WOW".... Carry on...I'll be reading OIM Do they think we forgot why we voted NO in 2009? Vote NO! Ford is rolling in profits and Wall Street is tickled to see this contract. But we don’t even get the concessions back--from COLA, to Annual Improvement Factor, to Easter Monday. Retirees lose the Christmas bonus and the legal services plan is being phased out—read on and find out more. We voted NO in 2009 to preserve the right to strike, but you wouldn’t know it from this contract. • COLA is gone forever if we can’t restore it now, when Ford is making big profits. Bloomberg News quotes Bob King: “Would [the members] like fixed rate increases? Sure they would. I’d like to give it to them, but they know the competitive structure as well as I do.” A lump sum is not a Cost of Living Allowance keyed to inflation. King’s words ”fixed rate increases” mean increases in the base hourly rate, like the 3% Annual Improvement Factor and COLA that we lost. Scott Houldieson of Chicago Assembly has a good comeback: “Frozen COLA and second tier wage increased to full wage combined would have reduced profits for 2010 to a mere $6.41 billion dollars! How is a company to survive on that?!” A 4% wage increase for the first year of the contract would amount to $95.5 million--less than the stock awarded to Mulally and Bill Ford in 2011. What a time to eliminate Equity of Sacrifice from the “Unpublished Letters”! • Second tier comes up only to average NON-union industrial pay. Ford needed this anyway to get workforce stability. If we sell out our children, they won’t defend our pensions. They only get 13 weeks SUB. UNITY = Equal Pay for Equal Work, not second class citizenship. Brother Houldieson also wrote: “Forget all the happy talk about the FTPM Morale Matrix. The company knows it has a better chance of controlling us if they can keep us divided.” Gary Walkowicz of the Dearborn Truck Plant wrote: “The biggest concession is that 2-tier will continue.” Four more years with no way to get into first tier. • If Ford hires permanent 2nd tier workers, the contract contains loopholes that let them hire way more than the supposed 20% cap--including some whole plants that are 2nd-tier only. Either way, everyone is undermined by non-equal pay for equal work. Will Ford even hire true 2nd tier? Last time we checked, all but 100 nation-wide were LTSs, not permanent 2nd tier. We have a three tier membership. Why is insourced work not counted toward the 20% cap on entry level numbers? • Pensions: New low for the UAW: No increase. Retirees who still had Christmas bonus lost it. • VEBA: Health care is still inadequately funded. New VEBA funds come only from the profit-sharing gamble. 30 & Out means little--if you’re afraid to retire before Medicare! • “Manufacturing Work Groups” combine production and skilled trades. This undermines trades classifications and undermines production workers’ chances of real advancement through apprenticeships. • Overtime: Time and a half after 8 hours is not restored. Increasing Alternative Work Schedules are designed to eliminate overtime pay as much as possible. We should make enough to not need overtime. • Without real barriers to outsourcing, the outsourcing will continue and increase.“Sourcing moratorium remains intact,” say the Highlights. But we see outsourcing all the time. • Working conditions: Lost break time is not restored. Alternative Work Schedules undermine working lives and family lives. • The 2011 UAW Bargaining Convention endorsed domestic partner same-sex bereavement pay, butit’s not in this contract. • We need a contract that helps organize the unorganized at Toyota, VW, Honda, Mercedes.Non-union workers need to see us as a fighting union. There has been no national Ford strike since 1976! • ACH workers should simply be made full Ford workers now—rather than waiting for openings. • What’s the alternative to voting Yes? Vote No, send them back to the table to get what wedeserve. And show Ford some real strike preparation. • “Creating” and “saving” jobs?? What does the record tell us about promises like that? Ford will invest in what it thinks is profitable. The contract will not force Ford to add jobs if business conditionsare not good and we don’t have a fighting union. Every contract for decades has been presented as a “job security contract,” but UAW-Ford has lost half its membership since 1999. Now Twin Cities MN and Walton Hills OH plants will close. And as the Autoworker Caravan wrote about the GM contract: “Shifting work from one plant to another isn’t ‘new’ work. Laying off autoworkers in Mexico is not ‘creating jobs’.Talk about new work, why didn’t the Union challenge the corporations to make fuel-efficient buses thatevery U.S. city could purchase?” CHRYSLER CONTRACT LOWLIGHTS This contract has NO FAIRNESS. We ALL deserve better. There is a lot of “NO” in this contract: NO parity with General Motors or Ford: We get $1750 upon ratification. The other $1750, only “when the company achieves financial stability,” is misrepresented as a ratification bonus—we might not get it at all. We get only $500 a year “inflation protection” which is less than the $600 Christmas bonus we lost in 2009. We might get another $500 for quality, but “no award will be paid if Chrysler Group LLC determines that targets were not met.” An “audit score adjustment factor” would give workers in some plants up to $1000, but only if they achieve a bronze or higher WCM score (not likely in the next four years).• Profit sharing? Chrysler can make up to $1.25 billion in operating profits—a long shot considering the company claims to have “lost” $254 million in the first half of 2011—before we get a cent.• In other words all but $3750 depends on “metrics” that we have no say in and minimal control over. NO repayment of past losses! $3750 does not begin to compensate us for the concessions of 2009—“suspensions” of raises, bonuses, holidays and more that were supposed to be temporary—that cost each worker a minimum of $9000. Bonuses that average less than $1000 per year do not make up for the thousands of dollars we will have lost at the end of our Chrysler career if we allow the “suspensions” to be transformed into permanent losses. NO end to two-tier pay. Raises for “entry level” workers—UAW sisters and brothers like everyone else—leave them at least a $9 an hour behind “traditional” employees and their pay can still barely support a family. There are no commitments to make Temporary Part Time workers permanent. TPTs and Summer Vacation Replacements do not count towards the 25% cap on “entry level,” which does not even go into effect until 2015. Even if some entry level workers are moved into the “traditional” pay bracket they will not get traditional benefits. All these tiers lower wages for everyone in the long run and keep us all “divided and conquered.” NO COLA or improvement factor raises—“traditional” pay is frozen for another four years. We have not had a raise since 2006. Are we paying the same for food, gas and utilities as we did in 2006? Time-and-a-half only after 40 hours. NO guarantees that there will be 2100 new jobs; any new jobs will be 100 per cent second tier. New jobs will be offset by reduction of jobs in skilled trades. Language that made the company fill attritional openings has been deleted. A new loophole—“market related volume declines” has been added to the toothless moratorium on plant closings and spinoffs. The UAW workforce at Chrysler could be even less than 26,000 by 2015. NO end to forced transfers of workers on indefinite layoff—without “closed plant” status they still lose their seniority. Laid off workers run out of SUB after 26-52 weeks. The job bank is gone. NO let up in the decimation of skilled trades. The company will continue cutting skilled trades to the bone through outsourcing, combining and eliminating classifications (“rationalization”), and dumping more trades work on production through Autonomous Maintenance. Lines of demarcation will be a thing of the past. Two thirds of all skilled positions could be eliminated at Chrysler, Ford and GM if they follow the pattern of GM’s totally restructured Lake Orion assembly plant. NO lost holidays returned. We did not get back Easter Monday and lost the “floating holiday” (the one Friday before Labor Day that was in the last contract) and July 5, 2013 (the Friday after Thursday, July 4, which we would have off with pay in previous contracts). NO restoration of relief time cut in 2009, which amounts to roughly 25 hours per year. Six to eight minutes per day now cut for Alternative Work Schedule/Flexible Operating Pattern workers. NO $700 Christmas bonus for retirees and pensions are frozen for four years. NO bereavement for same-sex partners and health insurance cut for same-sex partners’ children. NO change to the inhumane combined attendance and tardiness procedure. One occurrence removed now, and then 4 more years under the gun. NO end to AWS and FOP, with some crews having their regularly scheduled 10-12 hour days on weekends for straight time. Dundee and Trenton only won—after Dundee voted to strike—relief from changing shifts from week to week. The company can impose AWS or FOP on a plant without local union approval. NO fairness in overtime: “the Local Unions and local plant managements may negotiate local agreements for the purposes of equalizing team based”—not by rotation or seniority anymore—“overtime hours or overtime opportunities in the same department and classification and on the same shift.” AND NO, Fiat-Chrysler is not broke. Cash reserves of Fiat and Chrysler have been combined and the company is sitting on a pot worth $27 billion. Car sales are up and market share has increased. Chrysler’s hourly labor costs are $7-9 less than Ford, GM and Toyota. The Treasury loans have been paid in full ahead of schedule, drastically lowering lending rates. And they did not “lose” $254 million. When the bosses borrowed money to pay off the Treasury there were servicing fees. Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, and their cohorts got half billion bucks. We got a button! We are forfeiting everything we thought we could get back if we vote yes. Many of us are understandably worried about what we could lose if we vote no and the contract goes to arbitration. We are on unchartered waters. There is no predicting how the arbitrator would rule or how long it would take. We don’t know what might weigh in on the ruling. There are the GM and Ford patterns, our past concessions, and there’s Fiat's 27-billion-dollar cash reserve. Might not an arbitrator consider these factors? Granted, it is a huge gamble. But can’t our negotiators go back to the table and try to demand a better contract? The “Occupy Wall St.” protests in New York and hundreds of other cities have put the spotlight on corporate greed. One way we can protest corporate greed is by voting NO on this contract. We would be acting in a proud and dignified manner in the tradition of the sit-downs of the 1930s. We would be showing Marchionne that we reject his “culture of poverty” and will not be blackmailed by scare tactics. Whatever the vote, we rank-and-file members have to come together. We can’t let tiers keep us divided. We need to find a way to revive the fighting tradition of the UAW. Get in touch with AUTOWORKERS CARAVAN: www.autoworkercaravan.org, autoworkercaravan@gmail.com, 313-863-3219 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Hey,,we got better jobs than Chrysler!With all that being said,the majority still votes YES.Give it up! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmeuaw Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 +1 My favorite post of the day. Do they think we forgot why we voted NO in 2009? Vote NO! Ford is rolling in profits and Wall Street is tickled to see this contract. But we don’t even get the concessions back--from COLA, to Annual Improvement Factor, to Easter Monday. Retirees lose the Christmas bonus and the legal services plan is being phased out—read on and find out more. We voted NO in 2009 to preserve the right to strike, but you wouldn’t know it from this contract. • COLA is gone forever if we can’t restore it now, when Ford is making big profits. Bloomberg News quotes Bob King: “Would [the members] like fixed rate increases? Sure they would. I’d like to give it to them, but they know the competitive structure as well as I do.” A lump sum is not a Cost of Living Allowance keyed to inflation. King’s words ”fixed rate increases” mean increases in the base hourly rate, like the 3% Annual Improvement Factor and COLA that we lost. Scott Houldieson of Chicago Assembly has a good comeback: “Frozen COLA and second tier wage increased to full wage combined would have reduced profits for 2010 to a mere $6.41 billion dollars! How is a company to survive on that?!” A 4% wage increase for the first year of the contract would amount to $95.5 million--less than the stock awarded to Mulally and Bill Ford in 2011. What a time to eliminate Equity of Sacrifice from the “Unpublished Letters”! • Second tier comes up only to average NON-union industrial pay. Ford needed this anyway to get workforce stability. If we sell out our children, they won’t defend our pensions. They only get 13 weeks SUB. UNITY = Equal Pay for Equal Work, not second class citizenship. Brother Houldieson also wrote: “Forget all the happy talk about the FTPM Morale Matrix. The company knows it has a better chance of controlling us if they can keep us divided.” Gary Walkowicz of the Dearborn Truck Plant wrote: “The biggest concession is that 2-tier will continue.” Four more years with no way to get into first tier. • If Ford hires permanent 2nd tier workers, the contract contains loopholes that let them hire way more than the supposed 20% cap--including some whole plants that are 2nd-tier only. Either way, everyone is undermined by non-equal pay for equal work. Will Ford even hire true 2nd tier? Last time we checked, all but 100 nation-wide were LTSs, not permanent 2nd tier. We have a three tier membership. Why is insourced work not counted toward the 20% cap on entry level numbers? • Pensions: New low for the UAW: No increase. Retirees who still had Christmas bonus lost it. • VEBA: Health care is still inadequately funded. New VEBA funds come only from the profit-sharing gamble. 30 & Out means little--if you’re afraid to retire before Medicare! • “Manufacturing Work Groups” combine production and skilled trades. This undermines trades classifications and undermines production workers’ chances of real advancement through apprenticeships. • Overtime: Time and a half after 8 hours is not restored. Increasing Alternative Work Schedules are designed to eliminate overtime pay as much as possible. We should make enough to not need overtime. • Without real barriers to outsourcing, the outsourcing will continue and increase.“Sourcing moratorium remains intact,” say the Highlights. But we see outsourcing all the time. • Working conditions: Lost break time is not restored. Alternative Work Schedules undermine working lives and family lives. • The 2011 UAW Bargaining Convention endorsed domestic partner same-sex bereavement pay, butit’s not in this contract. • We need a contract that helps organize the unorganized at Toyota, VW, Honda, Mercedes.Non-union workers need to see us as a fighting union. There has been no national Ford strike since 1976! • ACH workers should simply be made full Ford workers now—rather than waiting for openings. • What’s the alternative to voting Yes? Vote No, send them back to the table to get what wedeserve. And show Ford some real strike preparation. • “Creating” and “saving” jobs?? What does the record tell us about promises like that? Ford will invest in what it thinks is profitable. The contract will not force Ford to add jobs if business conditionsare not good and we don’t have a fighting union. Every contract for decades has been presented as a “job security contract,” but UAW-Ford has lost half its membership since 1999. Now Twin Cities MN and Walton Hills OH plants will close. And as the Autoworker Caravan wrote about the GM contract: “Shifting work from one plant to another isn’t ‘new’ work. Laying off autoworkers in Mexico is not ‘creating jobs’.Talk about new work, why didn’t the Union challenge the corporations to make fuel-efficient buses thatevery U.S. city could purchase?” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectsinmirror Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 No, I am not unhappy that you are getting a raise at all but the point is, you are getting one while the rest of the veteran employees are not so I would find it easier for you to say yes to the contract because you are getting a set raise something that is solid as opposed to something that might not happen like profit. So do you see why some might not want the contract to go thru. Either way stagnant wages are stagnant wages. Sadly, fighting for fairness in pay seemed to be what the union used to represent. Stang...thank you for being honest and up front. First, let me say this...the contract...ANY...contract...works to set minimal pay scale for all employees. This raise for "team leaders" sets that minimum pay scale higher. THERE IS NOTHING IN ANY CONTRACT THAT SAYS THE COMPANY CAN'T PAY YOU MORE. If you could know the wages for the workers that work next to you, you might be suprised. And what makes you think I'm getting a raise? if I can ask... I think, in this economy...this POLITICAL economy, that we all should be happy to put food on the table and make our bills. Fighting for any more than this...right now...is futile... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteeyes Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I got leader in my job title, powerhouse engineer leader, does that mean I get a raise, doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectsinmirror Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 I got leader in my job title, powerhouse engineer leader, does that mean I get a raise, doubt it. All leaders are team leaders...with up to 10 floor employees...AM I right?...I don't Know?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hello all, It's been a long time since my last post...YEARS. I've lurked on here at leat 3 times a week, all this time. It's good to see some of the "back in my day" posters are still out here. People like Pioneer, Bigredogre, whereswaldo, furious1auto, oh, and Trimdingman (by far my favorite poster), who gave me quite a laugh with this morning's post with the dental cost comment. Anyway, I'm already seeing coments about who's fault it will be in 4 years, and who's fault it will be if we went on strike. The fact is, if we went on strike, it WOULD be the NO voters fault, or ehh victory, depending on the outcome. If this contract passes, there is no telling what to expect in the next 4 years, EXCEPT, for the short term, (or long term?) , we will still go to work every week. Look, I've gone through alot in 17 years with Ford, but by far, the biggest thing was the CHOICE I had to make, to take a $100,000 buyout, education buyout, or keep working, hoping my plant didn't close or I had to be displaced to another plant. After agonizing for months over this, I came to a revelation...I came here to work, and I wasn't gonna let anyone FORCE me to make a choice,,,My choice was made when I hired in : I'm Gonna work here, till they THROW me out of here. I have to laugh, when people say thing like "Gary W is a republican insider," or imply that all the no voters are wide eyed crazy liberals, who would be better served, laying down on wall street and demostrating. I am so happy to see that the MODS have thrown out the political posters on this forum. BUT, nowadays, everything seems to become political. Personally, I think the employees of this company, are some of the best in the land, and we make some DAMN good products...With some DAMN good people. I Voted yes on this contract...if you voted no, I respect your vote (although I have not found one reason to agree)... Kick ass post! Union friend...I didn't even look at any reply's to give you gratis on this thread...you put it in the bag baby! :happy feet: Let's get this over with, and get working...we have a WORLD to "WOW".... Carry on...I'll be reading OIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I remember you Objects! You were a very good read for sure. Let me say that I believe the new UAW worker has no resemblence to his predecessor. He is connected by the internet to what is actually going on, and interpets it regardless of what some guy in a baseball cap with buttons tells him to think. The NEW UAW member knows that his/her outcome is tied to what the offshore non-UAW plants are doing, and want to know why those plants are NOT UAW. This is the new question many members ask! Everyone who has a brain knows you can't price yourself out of the market without a high possibility of failure, so they want to know why our supposed protection can not control that market. Complaints about what is happening is rampant. The difference today is that many members are smart enough to understand that the company does not do it because they are evil, but rather because to not do so puts our products behind profitabilty to Toyota, amongst others. Our members ask, "if we are about parity and we make more than they do, why won't Georgetown join?" That sir, is the 100,000 dollar question that the UAW avoids, and makes less than reasonable deals with its members to compensate for its inability to answer....just...that...question! Nice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Stang...thank you for being honest and up front. First, let me say this...the contract...ANY...contract...works to set minimal pay scale for all employees. This raise for "team leaders" sets that minimum pay scale higher. THERE IS NOTHING IN ANY CONTRACT THAT SAYS THE COMPANY CAN'T PAY YOU MORE. If you could know the wages for the workers that work next to you, you might be suprised. And what makes you think I'm getting a raise? if I can ask... I think, in this economy...this POLITICAL economy, that we all should be happy to put food on the table and make our bills. Fighting for any more than this...right now...is futile... And with this deal we will be adding 1 leader to around ten members...brush up folk's...be intellegent and apply ourselves... I gotta say this is probably the best thread of all time...just for the well mannered dialog...very refreshing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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