Buying a Vehicle

[akirby]

I have A plan pricing. My brother is at OAC.

"A" plan is slightely better than the "employee pricing" out there now.

 

Order was placed before end of May. So I got to bundle all the offers available.

 

Everything I've seen says "employee pricing" is the A plan price, although it typically replaces other incentives, especially rebates. So actual A plan plus rebates might be better than "employee pricing" without rebates or with reduced rebates.

[V8-X]

Based on that description, you are a very educated and prudent consumer. A good salesperson employed by a reputable, well run business would love to count someone like that as a customer.

Thanks! I've had some dealers who just won't budge on price, which I'm fine with. It's a business and if they don't want to haggle price or have my business, I'll go elsewhere. The Ford dealer who I've now purchased my last 3 vehicles from knows me very well. Every service on my '99 Explorer, '02 F150 and now '06 F150 (except tires & brakes) have been performed by them. Heck, they even conducted most work on the '99 Ranger I had purchased from a different Ford dealer. So I'm loyal in a sense in that you treat me right, I'll continue to do business with them and even refer business to their way. Just don't put your dealer stickers on my rides, my vehicle is not a billboard.

 

Well put V8-X. Stand by for the wrath of Deanh.

I too am an informed car buyer, know what I want and how much I'm willing to pay, but when I tried to express that in the ...2013 C-Max thread, he tried to tear me a new one. I chose not to participate in this topic and haven't read most of the posts, mainly because I expected it to be a forum for Deanh to tell people that they were wrong and taking the food out of the mouths of hard working car salesman by not paying MSRP and trying to negotiate a better deal.

MSRP is a "Suggested" price, not a set in stone price. Some people pay more, some pay less, some pay sticker. Like my dealer puts a $9999 market adjustment price on top of MSRP for their Raptors. Sure some will pay that, I won't though. Now I don't want to take money/food out of the dealers employee's pocket/mouth. But it's a two way street. Why should I pay MSRP or higher, cause then in the same sense they'd be taking money/food out of my families pocket/mouth. Like cross shopping Target and Walmart. If I can get an identical product and good service at one of those stores, why pay more or get lesser service from the other?

 

EDIT: I do understand Deanh's stance. He's a salesmen, his livelihood is based on sales and transaction price. So of course the more options he can sale an individual and higher transaction price he can get, will only benefit him and the dealer. And I'm sure he knows, it's always better to get at least a lower sale with minimal mark-up than to not get any sales at all that day. And I feel for salesmen in any industry, it's a job I couldn't ever do, just not in my blood. Like I said though, he's simply looking out for what's best for himself and his employer, while we as consumers should be looking out for our best interests.

 

Prices can also vary from week to week and month to month as the overall market and supply changes.

And this is typically why I attempt to purchase a new vehicle towards the end of the year or the beginning of the year when dealers are trying to clear inventory for the new model year vehicles. Purchased by '06 F150 in Dec. 2006, my '02 F150 in Dec. 2002 and my '99 Explorer at the end of Jan. 2000. Not only that, here in CO, 4WD/AWD trade-ins typically demand slightly more during the winter months than summer. So I totally agree the market and season can play into the sale price.

Edited July 24, 2012 by V8-X

[Deanh]

 

Suggestions, I really don't have any. Wish the entire process was quicker/easier, but to get the best price I've found haggling the way to go. Some people don't like it, and I completely understand. I simply refuse to pay anywhere near MSRP, and typically request to see the inventory price and all dealer handling/destination fees. Some dealers are willing to play, others not so much. I typically work two or three dealers/sales people against each other to get the lowest price. And I laugh when I get up to leave and the sales person states "if you leave, this great deal is off the table", or something along those lines. Cause inevitably the next day I'm getting a call from them or the sales manager saying they can beat that price and can I come in to finalize a sale. Many times I'll also request they add 2-3 items, like a bed liner, bug guard, floor liners or other small ticket items to show how much they want the sale.

 

So after all the haggling and we agree to a price (never more than $1K above inventory) for the vehicle, it's off the the finance dept to haggle with them over the price of extended warranties, GAP insurance and other misc items. And of course sign off on the details.

 

All in all, I'd say with the dealer and salesperson I eventually purchase from, from beginning to end, I'll spend a good 7-10hrs, emailing, test driving, haggling and signing paperwork. But to me though, to save $8K-$10K or more off the price of the vehicle, the time spent is well worth it. Sales manager and sales person usually hates it, cause they invested so much time and get a lower return than an average joe customer who isn't going to haggle and invest the time into fighting the price.

 

 

I totally understand the difficulties from the dealers standpoint on trade-ins. Each car is unique. Sure same make, model, miles and so on, but condition plays a huge part in value. And I do know many consumers simply see a KBB or NADA price and think that's what they'll get without taking into factors of condition and the market demand for that particular vehicle.

 

As for me though, I take very well care of my vehicles. So while I may not always know the market value, I know they are in prime condition and I shouldn't be lowed balled on trade in price. Heck, I even tell the salesperson that we will conduct the trade in and purchase of the new vehicle as two separate transactions, but the condition of me purchasing the new vehicle is directly dependent upon the trade-in transaction.

 

But I will review trade in prices through KBB and NADA. I'll review the price vehicles similar to mine are selling for on the market, both private and through dealers. And will go in with a set bottom price that I will accept. I haggle with them just as I do with the purchase. I've won some, and lost some. But for those I've lost and they wouldn't deal, I've simply taken my business to the next dealer and have gotten the prices I wanted.

 

As you can tell, for salespeople, I am your nightmare customer. I know what I want, how much I'm willing to spend, how much I am willing to take for my trade, and want them to show me why they want my business. But in the long run, the dealer will make much more money as I typically bring my vehicles to the selling dealer for all service. That is until or unless their service dept has shown reason to go elsewhere. Isn't that where the dealer makes most his money though, in service and parts?

your not a nightmare in the slightest...although stating in one sentance that you want it quicker and easier...and then in the next stating 7-10 hours has me questioning your process...BUT, ultimately you would probably be pretty easy to deal with....

[Deanh]

Well put V8-X. Stand by for the wrath of Deanh.

I too am an informed car buyer, know what I want and how much I'm willing to pay, but when I tried to express that in the ...2013 C-Max thread, he tried to tear me a new one. I chose not to participate in this topic and haven't read most of the posts, mainly because I expected it to be a forum for Deanh to tell people that they were wrong and taking the food out of the mouths of hard working car salesman by not paying MSRP and trying to negotiate a better deal.

nope, just called out your process and sense of entitlement, thats all....write this word down...COMPROMISE...works a tad better than DEMAND.

[Deanh]

 

Thanks! I've had some dealers who just won't budge on price, which I'm fine with. It's a business and if they don't want to haggle price or have my business, I'll go elsewhere. The Ford dealer who I've now purchased my last 3 vehicles from knows me very well. Every service on my '99 Explorer, '02 F150 and now '06 F150 (except tires & brakes) have been performed by them. Heck, they even conducted most work on the '99 Ranger I had purchased from a different Ford dealer. So I'm loyal in a sense in that you treat me right, I'll continue to do business with them and even refer business to their way. Just don't put your dealer stickers on my rides, my vehicle is not a billboard.

 

 

MSRP is a "Suggested" price, not a set in stone price. Some people pay more, some pay less, some pay sticker. Like my dealer puts a $9999 market adjustment price on top of MSRP for their Raptors. Sure some will pay that, I won't though. Now I don't want to take money/food out of the dealers employee's pocket/mouth. But it's a two way street. Why should I pay MSRP or higher, cause then in the same sense they'd be taking money/food out of my families pocket/mouth. Like cross shopping Target and Walmart. If I can get an identical product and good service at one of those stores, why pay more or get lesser service from the other?

 

EDIT: I do understand Deanh's stance. He's a salesmen, his livelihood is based on sales and transaction price. So of course the more options he can sale an individual and higher transaction price he can get, will only benefit him and the dealer. And I'm sure he knows, it's always better to get at least a lower sale with minimal mark-up than to not get any sales at all that day. And I feel for salesmen in any industry, it's a job I couldn't ever do, just not in my blood. Like I said though, he's simply looking out for what's best for himself and his employer, while we as consumers should be looking out for our best interests.

 

 

And this is typically why I attempt to purchase a new vehicle towards the end of the year or the beginning of the year when dealers are trying to clear inventory for the new model year vehicles. Purchased by '06 F150 in Dec. 2006, my '02 F150 in Dec. 2002 and my '99 Explorer at the end of Jan. 2000. Not only that, here in CO, 4WD/AWD trade-ins typically demand slightly more during the winter months than summer. So I totally agree the market and season can play into the sale price.

the benefits of waiting till the end of the year have somewhat changed due to ford cutting back production. The likelihood of a fussy buyer finding the EXACT unit they want in depleted inventories is obviously slimmer, however for the flexible buyer it CAn be a good time. However, dont expect a dealer to trade for a "loss leader". So in a way its a double edged sword.

[Deanh]

V8, I think youve got it...you are not quite accurate on my stance...but generally speaking pretty close. I dont mind taking a skinnier deal than necessary dependent on the complexity of the process, if its agravating or time consuming I would rather pass it on if i sense there is something there for the store, to someone that has more patience and perhaps whose workload is less. If someone is a right royal pain, throwing out demands and ultimatums, I have people here that can throw it right back. I have also refused to sell individuals cars and lost deals because clients didnt feel they got their way. so its a two way boat. Contray to Transitmans beleifs, Im probably one of the easiest going guys one could deal with, but the mentality is, one should know theres an agreement within 15-30 minutes, sure some take longer, but its not rocket science. Theres NO need for smoke / mirrors, backwards and forwards, sideways, web based buying practices, walk and they will follow, throw the trade in after the deal is consomated etc etc BS. I find that neanderthal and completely un-necessary, let alone insulting. I sell cars the same way I would want to buy them, cut through the crap, put EVERYTHING on tha table up front and come to a mutual understanding...pretty easy after the amount of time Ive been doing this....AND quick. Buying a car doesnt have to feel like a blood transfusion.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Deanh

[V8-X]

your not a nightmare in the slightest...although stating in one sentance that you want it quicker and easier...and then in the next stating 7-10 hours has me questioning your process...BUT, ultimately you would probably be pretty easy to deal with....

Oh I know it's our basic double standard in today's world. We all want everything quicker/easier, no matter what the task is. But I understand to conduct all the legwork that I do in research, as well haggling with the salesman, it's going to take time and isn't always going to be easy. I do like to dream though.

 

Each of my last 3 Ford purchases have gotten easier though. As the dealer has become aware of my style and history I have with them. We have a great business relationship. Heck, even the service advisers know I'll haggle over price with them, but typically only when I'm getting multiple services completed at once (i.e. trans flush, diff flush, works pkg, etc). So like I stated, if the dealer treats me right, they will lock down my business for both future purchases and service.

 

And my service adviser already knows come Feb. 2013, they will have another Ford product to service. My father-in-laws company car (2010 Taurus SEL AWD), which has only been serviced by a Ford dealer and has had every service completed on schedule, is being replaced (either with a 2013 Focus or 2013 Escape) and the wife loves that Taurus. So more than likely we will purchasing that car from his employer at a hefty discount compared to the market value for a 2010 Taurus to replace the wife's Altima.

[Edgy Girl]

Everything I've seen says "employee pricing" is the A plan price, although it typically replaces other incentives, especially rebates. So actual A plan plus rebates might be better than "employee pricing" without rebates or with reduced rebates.

 

This is true... when the Employee Pricing sale started - I reran my build on Ford.ca.

 

The delivery allowance was reduced by $500 and the costco deal expired at May 31.

 

 

So if you have access to A plan, and plan to buy - its best to watch the sites for delivery allowances and other financing specials.

[Deanh]

 

Oh I know it's our basic double standard in today's world. We all want everything quicker/easier, no matter what the task is. But I understand to conduct all the legwork that I do in research, as well haggling with the salesman, it's going to take time and isn't always going to be easy. I do like to dream though.

 

Each of my last 3 Ford purchases have gotten easier though. As the dealer has become aware of my style and history I have with them. We have a great business relationship. Heck, even the service advisers know I'll haggle over price with them, but typically only when I'm getting multiple services completed at once (i.e. trans flush, diff flush, works pkg, etc). So like I stated, if the dealer treats me right, they will lock down my business for both future purchases and service.

 

And my service adviser already knows come Feb. 2013, they will have another Ford product to service. My father-in-laws company car (2010 Taurus SEL AWD), which has only been serviced by a Ford dealer and has had every service completed on schedule, is being replaced (either with a 2013 Focus or 2013 Escape) and the wife loves that Taurus. So more than likely we will purchasing that car from his employer at a hefty discount compared to the market value for a 2010 Taurus to replace the wife's Altima.

Love it, you have touched on the one area that has kept me in this business as long as I have...relationships. Repeat customers are THE single most important part of my business. Without them I would have left years ago. And sure makes things easy because both sides know where the other is coming from AND the likelihood of someone "going the extra yard" should there be a post sale "issue" Theres less BS, less games and overall a MUCH more pleasurablre transaction. Im sure some of my clients could save $100 or $200 here or there, but they know what they would have to go through to get there and ironically,its THAT convienience and time saving that clients value highly enough to make the return trip. That and the fact they can make a phone call, walk in, sign and go...15-30 minute transaction.

[V8-X]

V8, I think youve got it...you are not quite accurate on my stance...but generally speaking pretty close. I dont mind taking a skinnier deal than necessary dependent on the complexity of the process, if its agravating or time consuming I would rather pass it on if i sense there is something there for the store, to someone that has more patience and perhaps whose workload is less. If someone is a right royal pain, throwing out demands and ultimatums, I have people here that can throw it right back. I have also refused to sell individuals cars and lost deals because clients didnt feel they got their way. so its a two way boat. Contray to Transitmans beleifs, Im probably one of the easiest going guys one could deal with, but the mentality is, one should know theres an agreement within 15-30 minutes, sure some take longer, but its not rocket science. Theres NO need for smoke / mirrors, backwards and forwards, sideways, web based buying practices, walk and they will follow, throw the trade in after the deal is consomated etc etc BS. I find that neanderthal and completely un-necessary, let alone insulting. I sell cars the same way I would want to buy them, cut through the crap, put EVERYTHING on tha table up front and come to a mutual understanding...pretty easy after the amount of time Ive been doing this....AND quick. Buying a car doesnt have to feel like a blood transfusion.

I do apologize if I was misinformed or painted you or sales people with too broad of a brush.

 

I do not attempt to make any sale aggravating, make demands, nor do I attempt to be a pain in the rear. I hate dealing with those type of people no matter the situation, whether at work or in my personal life, so I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm more in the persuasive type attitude with the comments, like "can we throw in a bedliner" or if the trade value is off a little something to the effect of "can we throw in an additional $500 trade". More make it seem like it's your ultimate decision or that you're helping me, but we're really getting to the sweet spot I'm comfortable with. And of course, I know salesmen use similar tactics, and I don't begrudge them, even thought the wife doesn't understand the cat and mouse type game.

 

And sounds like you are a great salesmen. Cut out the BS, get to the bottom line for both purchase and trade. Too many salesmen aren't like that though, many looking at their bottom line and has been what many people dislike about purchasing a car.

[V8-X]

the benefits of waiting till the end of the year have somewhat changed due to ford cutting back production. The likelihood of a fussy buyer finding the EXACT unit they want in depleted inventories is obviously slimmer, however for the flexible buyer it CAn be a good time. However, dont expect a dealer to trade for a "loss leader". So in a way its a double edged sword.

And the benefits of waiting might have changed, I can't say since I've been out of the purchasing market for the last 6yrs. Haven't had real issue with my current F150 and it only has 43K miles on her, so can't see purchasing another new truck for a while. But my dealer as most dealers here in CO, are swamped with certain vehicles, most notably the F150. Big sellers in these parts, and most dealers carry a ton of inventory on those. So I wouldn't foresee those as being an issue, but something like the Flex or Taurus in these parts may be more difficult to track down.

 

And I'm not picky or fussy. I need at least an XLT model with power windows/locks and 4WD, that's about it. I am slightly picky on colors (prefer dark blue or silver), but those too are very common colors in most our dealers inventories. But if they have something in a higher trim level and maybe a different color, I may see what they can offer me.

[akirby]

And the benefits of waiting might have changed, I can't say since I've been out of the purchasing market for the last 6yrs.

 

What changed is that Ford is no longer overproducing vehicles so you don't end up with that end of model year glut that requires huge incentives to get off the lots. You might get lucky and find a straggler here or there with larger than normal incentives but it's nothing like it used to be.

[hawaiicarguy]

I'll let you in on something....car dealerships and the Apple Store don't normally stock parts on hand. Why carry all this extra stock around that you might be stuck with?

 

As for my computer...they did all the repairs on site, just had to wait on the parts to come. As for pulling the part off another computer, first off, the Mac I had was almost a year old, and a new generation came out a few months before, so they didn't have the same video card in them. The process took less then a week...figure 24-48 hours to get the part and another 24-48 hours to get the work done etc...it was pretty painless. I'd much rather do the work myself (my field of work) but I was pretty impressed by how the Genius Bar did everything vs what I've dealt with in the PC world. I can see why non-techy people would like something like this, but for the most part I try to fix it myself till I get to the point I can't and HAVE to take it to get fixed.

 

No need to let me in on anything...most dealerships have a good parts supply on hand especially common parts.....as for computers....well a video card is a common part. No need to jump in and defend Apple, just said it was not for me. So calm down there, its not that critical.