Edstock Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 No. Just harsh reality. No it's not, it's just your opinion. Of course, you're aware that Ford has made commitments to the Ontario government over incentive funding over the years. Plus, while the CAW cost may be problematic, you're also aware that the geographical location of Oakville offers some advantages. The point is, pulling out of Oakville might not really be possible. We'll know, soon enough. And who knows, maybe Ford might develop product that will set records, too. Try to cheer up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 i work in Dagenham and I heard today from one of the lads on the shop floor that there will be a "big announcement about Genk" to be made next week. I hope so regardless of what they decide, endless speculation and perceived inaction is crippling to confidence. Maybe Genk dropping shift, laying off workers, getting costs under control with a view of building next models elsewhere.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 What the barking eff are you barking about? "Let's cancel 200k units (1% of the NA market) of high ATP product and close a plant!" You're right. Realistically, Ford is committed to Oakville. There is nowhere else to build the next-gen Edge. If Ford were going to change sourcing, those actions would have already begun. I don't think there is room anywhere else, and Ford isn't exactly ready for a new greenfield plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Of course, you're aware that Ford has made commitments to the Ontario government over incentive funding over the years. Plus, while the CAW cost may be problematic, you're also aware that the geographical location of Oakville offers some advantages. Yes and yes. The point is, pulling out of Oakville might not really be possible. We'll know, soon enough. And who knows, maybe Ford might develop product that will set records, too. Try to cheer up. Thanks, I needed that ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I hope so regardless of what they decide, endless speculation and perceived inaction is crippling to confidence. Maybe Genk dropping shift, laying off workers, getting costs under control with a view of building next models elsewhere.. Agreed, the Flemish newspaper articles are full of articles from very worried factory workers. Even though Ford brass has announced that the plant will not close. Also end of June was an announcement that the Genk-based Ford assembling unit will receive €28 million in aid from the government of Flanders to build the new Mondeo line. Ford’s commitment to building the model in Genk assures full employment levels (about 4,500) at the plant until 2020. Further aid is expected for the S-Max and Galaxy vehicles. My guess is Ford will announce lay offs, similar to what happened back in 2003 at the Genk Plant.The work for the next Mondeo at Genk has already began so I cannot see them scrapping this invested work and moving it somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) I expect layoffs as well. 4,500 employees is far too many for the volume of those products. Edited August 24, 2012 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) I expect layoffs as well. 4,500 employees is far too many for the volume of those products. Yes, I'd expect that Ford can wind back that number significantly and still keep Genk going until they decide what to do long term. We can expect the plant will be down balanced and production right sized to match current market sales as a immediate measure Edited August 24, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) I have been reading the news feeds from Valencia, Genk & Southampton and both Valencia and Genk have had Ford brass (John Fleming Genk) & (Alan Mulally while in Valencia August 7) make announcements that their plants will not close. But not a word from Ford management for the Southampton workers. Edited August 25, 2012 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) I have been reading the news feeds from Valencia, Genk & Southampton and both Valencia and Genk have had Ford brass (John Fleming Genk) & (Alan Mulally while in Valencia August 7) make announcements that their plants will not close. But not a word from Ford management for the Southampton workers. UK is Ford Europe's biggest market and Transit is very popular there and any talkof closing down Southampton would be a colossal mistake resulting in a huge backlash.. LINKFord Transit’s position as the UK’s best-selling commercial vehicle remains unchallenged: Transit holds 17.6 per cent of the CV market for the year to date compared with 5.6 per cent for its nearest challenger. In July, Transit accounted for 18.7 per cent of the total CV market. Here you go, July sales for GENK Mondeo - 5,200 S-Max - 3100 Galaxy - 2100 LINK Edited August 25, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 So Genk made about 90,000 units YTD, but has 4,500 employees ??? WOW ! Needs some major cuts ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 So Genk made about 90,000 units YTD, but has 4,500 employees ??? WOW ! Needs some major cuts ! too right they do, judging by other plants, Southampton = 500 Cologne = 4,188 Saarlouis = 1,276 Valencia = 1,797 Genk sticks out like a sore thumb... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) too right they do, judging by other plants, Southampton = 500 Cologne = 4,188 Saarlouis = 1,276 Valencia = 1,797 Genk sticks out like a sore thumb... Remember that Genk also sends CKD production to Russia (Mondeo, S-Max, and Galaxy), China (S-Max), Taiwan (Mondeo), and Vietnam (Mondeo). Also, those sales are only for 22 countries in the Europe. You could probably double that number to get the full sales (for in other countries plus the CKD units) that the plant gives to Ford. Russia sells above 1,500 Mondeos a month. Australia sells about 500 Mondeos a month. All the other countries add up. Edited August 25, 2012 by ausrutherford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) too right they do, judging by other plants, Southampton = 500 Cologne = 4,188 Saarlouis = 1,276 Valencia = 1,797 Genk sticks out like a sore thumb... Where did you get your numbers from? Ford Corp info Saarlouis = 6,524 Cologne = 4,405 Valencia (Spain) = 6,180 (according to Mulally adding 1,000 new jobs re the new added products - Kuga and Transit + the company has earmarked Euro 812 million for production of the Kuga and the Transit Connect. + few more millions to get the C-Max hybrid and Plug-in Hybrid rolling Southampton = 1,120 Source http://corporate.for...operations-list Edited August 25, 2012 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Ford is taking a beating in Europe this year: Not only are sales in the toilet, their market share is as low as I can remember seeing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Ford is taking a beating in Europe this year: Not only are sales in the toilet, their market share is as low as I can remember seeing it. It would be worse if they put as much cash on the hood as the other automakers, though the market share would be up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Remember that Genk also sends CKD production to Russia (Mondeo, S-Max, and Galaxy), China (S-Max), Taiwan (Mondeo), and Vietnam (Mondeo). Also, those sales are only for 22 countries in the Europe. You could probably double that number to get the full sales (for in other countries plus the CKD units) that the plant gives to Ford. Russia sells above 1,500 Mondeos a month. Australia sells about 500 Mondeos a month. All the other countries add up. The sales I quoted are from the E19 countries and don't include Russia ect., the Russian Mondeos are all 4-door type and as you know, St Petersburg has a stamping plant and I suspect that they do their own stampings. FoA's sales vary between 300 and 500 sales mostly because of restricted diesel supplies from FoE, The Mondeo is just not that popular in Asia...China maybe but not Asia. Assuming that mondeo sees significant Volume increases across the total 51 markets as compared to E19 or E22 is rather tenuous and in the long run FAPA will either build Mondeo or its own version of CD4 large car. FoE is just too difficult to deal with regarding supply... I understand what you're saying with Mondeo exports but the cumulative amounts are nowhere near what they used to be and now that Hermosillo and Flat Rock will be supplying the Americas, they might be able to cover more of Sth America and more global markets too.. Edited August 25, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) It would be worse if they put as much cash on the hood as the other automakers, though the market share would be up. Yes VW group in particular has been gaining market share by massive discounts on their vehicles and trying to starve out the competition. Strategy seems to be like GM, keep your Factory order books full and sales activity as high as possible, their goal is being more than No.1 it looks like they are actively tryng to kill off competitions market share as well.......could this be seen as a precursor to VW group monopoly? Edited August 25, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Where did you get your numbers from? Oops, thanks for the right and official numbers, it was late here and id did a lazy wiki search... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 The sales I quoted are from the E19 countries and don't include Russia ect., the Russian Mondeos are all 4-door type and as you know, St Petersburg has a stamping plant and I suspect that they do their own stampings. FoA's sales vary between 300 and 500 sales mostly because of restricted diesel supplies from FoE, The Mondeo is just not that popular in Asia...China maybe but not Asia. Assuming that mondeo sees significant Volume increases across the total 51 markets as compared to E19 or E22 is rather tenuous and in the long run FAPA will either build Mondeo or its own version of CD4 large car. FoE is just too difficult to deal with regarding supply... I understand what you're saying with Mondeo exports but the cumulative amounts are nowhere near what they used to be and now that Hermosillo and Flat Rock will be supplying the Americas, they might be able to cover more of Sth America and more global markets too.. Hermosillo has been supplying South America except for Argentina since 2006. I think Genk supplies Argentina due to some tax issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Hermosillo has been supplying South America except for Argentina since 2006. I think Genk supplies Argentina due to some tax issue. I'm not saying close Genk right now, just that 4,500 people are probably not needed for the entire production.2005 Latin American trade agreements are still incomplete but if talks restart, then Argentina could come back to the Americas Ford's forward view of Mondeo fusion probably sees FAPA, Russia and South America looking after their own regions, if that's true, then GENK's combined production is probably going to fall even further.. Edited August 25, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Ford's forward view of Mondeo fusion probably sees FAPA, Russia and South America looking after their own regions, if that's true, then GENK's combined production is probably going to fall even further.. The Fusion is wildly successful in the US and if the new one does not continue that sales trend the company will be in big trouble. I wonder what sales of the Mondeo are in the rest of the world, broken down by country. Perhaps Ford should drop the Mondeo in SE Asia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 ...if I've learned nothing else, it's that when Ford states something as "presently" or just doesn't state a specific future date/range,it's only good FOR THAT MOMENT. ex: when Ford said on Aug. 2 that they have no plans at present to bring Lincoln to China (Bloomberg) that^ expired at 12:01am Aug. 3 and no longer has any meaning. my comment above COULD also apply to the case of closing a plant in Europe, I fully expect a Fomoco spokesperson to say something about "AS A LAST RESORT" in about a month with the Closure Announcement about another month after that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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