Election Predictions

[retro-man]

Lol.

Who else really gives a shit what any other nations thinks??

Does this mean we don't have to hear any more crap about Obama's "apology tour"?

[cal50]

Does this mean we don't have to hear any more crap about Obama's "apology tour"?

 

 

Maybe, unless its on the tax payers dime and over something we should just tell them to pound salt via the phone.

[partsisparts]

Too little, too late....where was this plan in 08?...he got embarassed in the first debate so they threw this pitiful plan together....piss poor

What is Rmoney's plan?

[RangerM]

What is Rmoney's plan?

It doesn't matter. The reason it doesn't matter is any plan that Obama has (at this point) can be framed as either "what he failed to do during his first term" OR "what he did wrong during his first term". He can only claim to be the "change" candidate once.

 

The reason for that is the current economic circumstance we are in at the end of Obama's 1st term, and many aren't happy with the direction of the country.

 

It is a referendum on whether or not people believe Obama's future performance would be any better than his previous. Since you are on the left, consider peoples' choice of Romney an act of desperation, if you wish; just to get away from Obama's policy.

[partsisparts]

It doesn't matter. The reason it doesn't matter is any plan that Obama has (at this point) can be framed as either "what he failed to do during his first term" OR "what he did wrong during his first term". He can only claim to be the "change" candidate once.

 

The reason for that is the current economic circumstance we are in at the end of Obama's 1st term, and many aren't happy with the direction of the country.

 

It is a referendum on whether or not people believe Obama's future performance would be any better than his previous. Since you are on the left, consider peoples' choice of Romney an act of desperation, if you wish; just to get away from Obama's policy.

It does matter..a lot. I suspect that Romney will continue the republican policies that put us in the Great Recession. Some economists are saying Romney's cuts could throw us right back into a recession.But I guess that is OK with the right. Same as Cheney saying "deficits don't matter." What he meant to say is deficits don't matter unless there is a Democrat in the White House. Obama's policies are working. Not as fast as we would like, but they are working. It took FDR ten years and a world war to get us out of the great Depression, yet the right expects Obama to pull us out of the Great Recession in 4 years. To paraphrase Bill Clinton. No President not even him would be able to pull us out of the economic mess Obama was left with after 4 years. So basically the rights mantra is (to paraphrase Clinton again) WE drove the economy off a cliff and Obama didn't fix it fast enough so put us back in the driver's seat.

 

So basically your voting for Romney not knowing what he would do about the economy is a good idea, because he is not Obama. Ummm.... no.

Edited October 29, 2012 by partsisparts

[napfirst]

It does matter..a lot. I suspect that Romney will continue the republican policies that put us in the Great Recession. Some economists are saying Romney's cuts could throw us right back into a recession.But I guess that is OK with the right. Same as Cheney saying "deficits don't matter." What he meant to say is deficits don't matter unless there is a Democrat in the White House. Obama's policies are working. Not as fast as we would like, but they are working. It took FDR ten years and a world war to get us out of the great Depression, yet the right expects Obama to pull us out of the Great Recession in 4 years. To paraphrase Bill Clinton. No President not even him would be able to pull us out of the economic mess Obama was left with after 4 years. So basically the rights mantra is (to paraphrase Clinton again) WE drove the economy off a cliff and Obama didn't fix it fast enough so put us back in the driver's seat.

 

So basically your voting for Romney not knowing what he would do about the economy is a good idea, because he is not Obama. Ummm.... no.

Keep drinking that koolade

[RangerM]

It does matter..a lot. I suspect that Romney will continue the republican policies that put us in the Great Recession. Some economists are saying Romney's cuts could throw us right back into a recession. But I guess that is OK with the right. Same as Cheney saying "deficits don't matter." What he meant to say is deficits don't matter unless there is a Democrat in the White House.

That is the charge made against Romney. There is no proof that either "Republican" policies (did) or Romney's ideas would put us into recession any more than sequestration. You should avoid trying to obfuscate the issue (bringing up Cheney, etc)

Obama's policies are working. Not as fast as we would like, but they are working. It took FDR ten years and a world war to get us out of the great Depression, yet the right expects Obama to pull us out of the Great Recession in 4 years. To paraphrase Bill Clinton. No President not even him would be able to pull us out of the economic mess Obama was left with after 4 years. So basically the rights mantra is (to paraphrase Clinton again) WE drove the economy off a cliff and Obama didn't fix it fast enough so put us back in the driver's seat.

Obama's policies are what is holding us back; just as FDR's prolonged the Depression. (FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate).

 

And don't forget, the "hope and change" candidate himself set the standard of recovery in 4 years. By his own standards, he has failed.

 

So basically your voting for Romney not knowing what he would do about the economy is a good idea, because he is not Obama. Ummm.... no.

I'm voting for Romney because I believe he is more conservative than Obama, and would govern more conservatively. I am just as confident in this choice as you are of yours. But I'm not looking at it from a partisan position (or at least trying not to).

 

Undecideds look at what was promised, where we are, and what is proposed (by Obama) and judge for themselves. That is why the trend (lately) has been toward Romney. I'm not saying he will definitely win, but if Romney does win, you will know why.

Edited October 29, 2012 by RangerM

[goinbroke2]

By the way: fun poll released by BBC world opinion a few days ago. Of the countries surveyed only Pakistan showed majority support for Romney over Obama. None of the other countries surveyed were even close. Here's 2 clues for the clueless, to demystify these results:

- Drone strikes under President Obama (for Pakistan)

- The memory of the last President the Republican Party gave us (for every other country in the world)

 

 

I laughed when I saw this..Kenya and nigeria like obama better huh? Then I see the socialist france, yup haha..then I see Canada...wait, WHAT?? 65% or so of Canadians like obama over Romney??? Ok, I call bullshit for one and two brings the whole thing under credibility issues. I can tell you of two friends (both academic's and hard left btw) and two guys who work for me (both black btw) who like obama. The other two black guys in the shop 1 doesn't care and the other thinks obama is a shill for enviromentalists. Every other person I know either (1) doesn't care or (2) thinks obama is doing a terrible job/the states are worse off because of him.

65%????? BULLSHIT!!! Listening to the talk radio here (which is DECIDEDLY LEFT) has the election on the shows every second day, and for every pro obama caller (which they let drone on for approx 2 min) there is two or three anti obama callers which they cut short.(an average of 30-50 seconds, yes I timed it)

Now I look at and think...Germany/Australis/UK ALL favour obama by a huge margin? mmmmm I think that's a little suspicious. Angela Merkle is not exactly left comparitively speaking nor is the UK with a conservative in power. Australia is another place I'd find hard to believe they are at 65% as well.

 

[retro-man]

I laughed when I saw this..Kenya and nigeria like obama better huh? Then I see the socialist france, yup haha..then I see Canada...wait, WHAT?? 65% or so of Canadians like obama over Romney??? Ok, I call bullshit for one and two brings the whole thing under credibility issues. I can tell you of two friends (both academic's and hard left btw) and two guys who work for me (both black btw) who like obama. The other two black guys in the shop 1 doesn't care and the other thinks obama is a shill for enviromentalists. Every other person I know either (1) doesn't care or (2) thinks obama is doing a terrible job/the states are worse off because of him.

65%????? BULLSHIT!!! Listening to the talk radio here (which is DECIDEDLY LEFT) has the election on the shows every second day, and for every pro obama caller (which they let drone on for approx 2 min) there is two or three anti obama callers which they cut short.(an average of 30-50 seconds, yes I timed it)

Now I look at and think...Germany/Australis/UK ALL favour obama by a huge margin? mmmmm I think that's a little suspicious. Angela Merkle is not exactly left comparitively speaking nor is the UK with a conservative in power. Australia is another place I'd find hard to believe they are at 65% as well.

Grasping much? Look, there's a couple of reasons Romney is neck and neck with Obama in this country, and so far behind in the rest of the world (except for Pakistan):

1.) We live in a country where 40% of the population thinks the earth was created in 6 days, 6,000 years ago, 18% of the people believe the sun revolves around the earth, 75% of people can correctly name the Three Stooges, but only 40% can name the three branches of government, and 24% have no idea who we declared independence from. I understand this argument can cut either way, but I have reason to believe it cuts my way.

It's not an exact match to the red state / blue state map, but there's a high degree of correlation.

2.) When you ask Americans "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?" The answer for most people is "No" in the very limited sense that question is calculated to appeal to - and with complete myopia about the larger issues, complete ignorance of history, and complete amnesia about how we got here, it has the intended effect, appealing to short-sighted self-interest. The rest of the world is not susceptible to that question. Removed from it, they are free to take the longer view, see the role that America has traditionally played, and might still play in the world, and they calculate that a progressive social and economic reformer will do more good for their countries, and for the world as a whole, than a Plutocratic Neo-con posse picking clean what's left of a once great country. Believe it or not, most of the countries on that list don't want to see us fail. I know from my work and travels abroad - especially thinking back to the wake of 9/11 - that there is a tremendous reservoir of goodwill and admiration in the world for America and for Americans. A tremendous nostalgia for what we once were. xr7g428 stated the loss of that America so eloquently in a different post not long ago (even though he and I have reached vastly different conclusions about how it was lost). I also know that much of the world thinks a large part of this country have taken leave of our senses. Before you just reflexively shoot from the hip and believe part of that poll and not other parts, think long and hard about the sense of rejoicing throughout the world that attended the election of Barack Obama 4 years ago (I know it was a slap in the face, painful for any Bush supporter to see, and the urge to explain it away somehow very powerful) on the heels of 8 years of unilateral foreign policy, false war, extraordinary rendition, gulags, waterboarding, Halliburton, and the whole nine yards. The key to that poll is simple: they don't want us to go back. I don't think Romney will take us back - not that far back - but I don't think his policies will take us forward either.

Edited October 30, 2012 by retro-man

[cal50]

The biggest spread in that pole IMHO is the known Vs the unknown.

Some people feel they know Obama and are comfortable with him Vs not having any idea or a fear what Romney or "other" would do.

 

Ask them if they would rather have a scoop of vanilla ice cream ( known ) or whats in the mystery container ( unknown ) you might have the same spread on your popularity / preference graph.

 

A few small details like falling personal income , higher insurance costs and a LOT of people still not working is all on Obama.

Maybe those other nations can pass the hat for us for a change instead of us supporting them and being the worlds police force.

 

The excessive spending by our government has to stop and politicians from both sides have kicked the can down the road for too long.

I hope it starts to change with the next president. Romney is unknown and I really do not think Obama has a clue what to do.

[the_spaniard]

I think Romney is getting a bad rap from Bush-era backlash. I think the international community loathed Bush, and it will take a few years of a republican president to make an effort to connect with other countries (and not take the "We are America, we know whats best for the world" attitude). Hopefully we get out of the middle east and stay out of it for the rest of our days.

 

 

 

We live in a country where 40% of the population thinks the earth was created in 6 days, 6,000 years ago, 18% of the people believe the sun revolves around the earth, 75% of people can correctly name the Three Stooges, but only 40% can name the three branches of government, and 24% have no idea who we declared independence from.

 

The old running joke that Americans are fat, lazy, and stupid is still alive and well across much of Europe. I'd like to see that change at some point.

 

That map is pretty scary, too Retro. But hey I guess it's time to cut education again. :rolleyes:

[goinbroke2]

Grasping much? Look, there's a couple of reasons Romney is neck and neck with Obama in this country, and so far behind in the rest of the world (except for Pakistan):

1.) We live in a country where 40% of the population thinks the earth was created in 6 days, 6,000 years ago, 18% of the people believe the sun revolves around the earth, 75% of people can correctly name the Three Stooges, but only 40% can name the three branches of government, and 24% have no idea who we declared independence from. I understand this argument can cut either way, but I have reason to believe it cuts my way.

It's not an exact match to the red state / blue state map, but there's a high degree of correlation.

2.) When you ask Americans "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?" The answer for most people is "No" in the very limited sense that question is calculated to appeal to - and with complete myopia about the larger issues, complete ignorance of history, and complete amnesia about how we got here, it has the intended effect, appealing to short-sighted self-interest. The rest of the world is not susceptible to that question. Removed from it, they are free to take the longer view, see the role that America has traditionally played, and might still play in the world, and they calculate that a progressive social and economic reformer will do more good for their countries, and for the world as a whole, than a Plutocratic Neo-con posse picking clean what's left of a once great country. Believe it or not, most of the countries on that list don't want to see us fail. I know from my work and travels abroad - especially thinking back to the wake of 9/11 - that there is a tremendous reservoir of goodwill and admiration in the world for America and for Americans. A tremendous nostalgia for what we once were. xr7g428 stated the loss of that America so eloquently in a different post not long ago (even though he and I have reached vastly different conclusions about how it was lost). I also know that much of the world thinks a large part of this country have taken leave of our senses. Before you just reflexively shoot from the hip and believe part of that poll and not other parts, think long and hard about the sense of rejoicing throughout the world that attended the election of Barack Obama 4 years ago (I know it was a slap in the face, painful for any Bush supporter to see, and the urge to explain it away somehow very powerful) on the heels of 8 years of unilateral foreign policy, false war, extraordinary rendition, gulags, waterboarding, Halliburton, and the whole nine yards. The key to that poll is simple: they don't want us to go back. I don't think Romney will take us back - not that far back - but I don't think his policies will take us forward either.

While you do have some good points I think you were a little smug on a couple points.

1) The lack of education is the only reason Romney is equal to obama? REALLY? Wow, quite the arrogance there don't you think? So your conclusion is that the education level of the US is on par with Pakistan obviously because both like Romney? No other reasoning....mkay.

2) I agree there is a lot of people/countries that don't want to see the US fail and yes have a nostalgia towards what they once were(that's me) but the rest of the world is looking for a "progressive social and economic reformer will do more good for their countries"??? Uh that's a bit of a stretch..how about they want a left leaning leader who continue the gravy train as opposed to an unknown who looks to be threatening to stop the cash hemoraging? Perhaps they want a opologetic US that won't try to influence them in any way? Oh, and as far as the outpouring of sympathy after 911? (Keep in mind I was working that day and helped house around 1100 people when the aircraft started landing in Halifax, basically all of them American)My FIRST reaction when I saw the planes hit the towers and the guesses it was an act of war? I said "wow, somebody is in deep shit now, the States are going to turn some shithole into a glass parking lot". That was the sentiment by EVERYBODY here at that time. The US is the sleeping giant, if you do wake them up and piss them off? Holy crap, it won't be pretty. Honestly, if obama was in power when that happened I think the sentiment would of been "holy crap, this response should be interesting..let me guess, he'll opologise for offending whoever "had" to attack the US".

Sorry, but being a big powerhouse, the US is the one everybody looks to as a "cop" or "parent". Shit happens in Haiti and there is a US response, same as any other part of the world. But the response is with an aircraft carrier which can bed 5000 people...the rest of the world sees the carrier and thinks "man you don't want to screw with them".

 

Being the 6'7" kid who dwarfs everyone in the playground but is scared to offend anyone is picked on WAY WORSE than the regular or small kids who are scared to offend someone.

 

As far as "the world rejoicing" after obama was elected? We had the same thing, I was in England (and told by a brit) that Canada now had a female Prime Minister. Everybody was gushing how progressive we were and what a great step forward for Canada, blah, blah, blah. (Btw, the first Canadian female was a member of the Conservative party.) Was it because obama was viewed as some great peace loving messiah? Ahhh, NO!

I'll agree everybody was tired of war (and still is) but what was obama besides a different person than who was the president? I mean really, the world didn't know him or anything about him. He was the first black President was the primary ingredient. It appeared the States had finally broken the "final barrier".

He was an excellent speaker and wanted to stop the war(s). He was a rockstar, heck he even got a nobel peace prize for what he said! Seriously, nobody else in the world has ever received a nobel peace prize for what they SAID they would do. How clouded were the eyes of the world? Think about it! He was the perseived messiah, he talked the talk. In hindsight, he couldn't walk the walk.

[FiredMotorCompany]

The biggest spread in that pole IMHO is the known Vs the unknown.

Some people feel they know Obama and are comfortable with him Vs not having any idea or a fear what Romney or "other" would do.

 

Ask them if they would rather have a scoop of vanilla ice cream ( known ) or whats in the mystery container ( unknown ) you might have the same spread on your popularity / preference graph.

 

A few small details like falling personal income , higher insurance costs and a LOT of people still not working is all on Obama.

Maybe those other nations can pass the hat for us for a change instead of us supporting them and being the worlds police force.

 

The excessive spending by our government has to stop and politicians from both sides have kicked the can down the road for too long.

I hope it starts to change with the next president. Romney is unknown and I really do not think Obama has a clue what to do.

 

Ostrich Effect, Bandwagon Effect (Herd Effect), Confirmation Bias and uninformed voters combine with Status Quo bias to create an electorate that cannot fully evaluate the candidates and the consequences of their vote.

[RangerM]

Grasping much? Look, there's a couple of reasons Romney is neck and neck with Obama in this country, and so far behind in the rest of the world (except for Pakistan):

1.) We live in a country where 40% of the population thinks the earth was created in 6 days, 6,000 years ago, 18% of the people believe the sun revolves around the earth, 75% of people can correctly name the Three Stooges, but only 40% can name the three branches of government, and 24% have no idea who we declared independence from. I understand this argument can cut either way, but I have reason to believe it cuts my way.

 

It's not an exact match to the red state / blue state map, but there's a high degree of correlation.

 

If educational achievement level can be correlated with political view--and is indicative of intelligence as alluded to by your statistics related to Creationism and the Three Stooges--then surely the choice of college major would also demonstrate a correlation with political view.

 

If you came up with a list, what do you believe would be the degrees with the highest percentage of conservatives, and conversely which would have the highest percentage of liberals? Which majors would represent the "better deal" when it comes to amassing large amounts of debt to achieve?

[partsisparts]

Keep drinking that koolade

Once again....What is Romney's plan for the economy? You like to critisize like you know everything, but you have no idea what Willard is going to do. All you know is he is not Obama. Edited October 30, 2012 by partsisparts

[goinbroke2]

Parts, don't start another tangent until this one is finished please. Questions were asked and I'd like to see the response by retro. He certainly has valid points and I'd like to see it further clarified. A new tangent at this point would further the partisan bickering as opposed to debating a valid point.

I purposely ignored the Christian ridicule, but since Ranger brought it up I'd like to see Retro's answer.

 

"what do you believe would be the degrees with the highest percentage of conservatives, and conversely which would have the highest percentage of liberals"

 

Most conservatives I know didn't get a university education, they worked/started their own businesses. Funny, the few hard left liberals I know, 1 was a high school principal, 1 a high school teacher, 2 worked for fed gov, both very pro union..all 4 have university educations, I guess they are smarter than the mere business owners....

[partsisparts]

Parts, don't start another tangent until this one is finished please. Questions were asked and I'd like to see the response by retro. He certainly has valid points and I'd like to see it further clarified. A new tangent at this point would further the partisan bickering as opposed to debating a valid point.

I purposely ignored the Christian ridicule, but since Ranger brought it up I'd like to see Retro's answer.

 

"what do you believe would be the degrees with the highest percentage of conservatives, and conversely which would have the highest percentage of liberals"

 

Most conservatives I know didn't get a university education, they worked/started their own businesses. Funny, the few hard left liberals I know, 1 was a high school principal, 1 a high school teacher, 2 worked for fed gov, both very pro union..all 4 have university educations, I guess they are smarter than the mere business owners....

Sorry Broke, but I have been trying to get an answer to my question for days now.

 

Judging from your post it just looks like Democrats are more educated. I don't know about smarter.

[xr7g428]

Parts, you keep asking for this, so here you go:

 

 

Mitt Romney’s Plan for a Stronger Middle Class is a five-part proposal for turning around the economy and delivering more jobs and more take-home pay for American families. While President Obama continues looking to big government spending programs as the solution to the nation’s challenges, Mitt understands that it is hardworking Americans in the private sector who will achieve economic growth and job creation. His plan will end the middle class squeeze of declining incomes and rising prices, bring back prosperity, and create 12 million jobs during his first term.

 

Part one of Mitt’s plan is to achieve energy independence on this continent by 2020. America is blessed with extraordinary natural resources, and developing them will create millions of good jobs – not only in the energy industry, but also in industries like manufacturing that will benefit from more energy at lower prices. America’s economy will boom when the billions of dollars we send overseas for our oil are kept here at home instead.

 

Part two of the plan is trade that works for America. Mitt believes that trade can offer enormous opportunities for American businesses and workers, but only if they are given a level playing field on which they can compete and win. That is why he will work to open new markets for American goods and services, while also confronting nations like China that cheat on trade and steal American jobs.

 

Part three is to provide Americans with the skills to succeed through better public schools, better access to higher education, and better retraining programs that help to match unemployed workers with real-world job opportunities.

 

Part four is to cut the deficit, reducing the size of government and getting the national debt under control so that America remains a place where businesses want to open up shop and hire.

 

Finally, part five of Mitt’s plan is to champion small business. Small businesses are the engine of job creation in this country, but they will struggle to succeed if taxes and regulations are too burdensome or if a government in Washington does its best to stifle them. Mitt will pursue comprehensive tax reform that lowers tax rates for all Americans, and he will cut back on the red tape that drives up costs and discourages hiring.

[cal50]

Its the "guilt by association" logic used by some people. Romney will be like Bush becasue he is from the same party. Obama will be good because he is a democrat, etc.

Separate people and instead of being judged on their own merits its guilt by association. Some get a pass for association as well.

 

I always love the "higher educated" moniker tossed out usually by liberal minded people.

I worked with a gifted MIT grad that was amazing at math but could not change a flat tire.

 

Education does not teach common sense and real world skills and about everyone works for someone else. There will always be people that make way more money and way less money than yourself also.

I never looked up to, or down my nose at anyone based on education but its obviously more in play in a liberal mind set.

 

Obama should get a refund on his education or at least attend some math classes becasue he is not very good with numbers.

Time to give another Harvard Grad a chance much to the chagrin of our foreign neighbors waiting for their monthly check.

[FordBuyer]

The biggest spread in that pole IMHO is the known Vs the unknown.

Some people feel they know Obama and are comfortable with him Vs not having any idea or a fear what Romney or "other" would do.

 

Ask them if they would rather have a scoop of vanilla ice cream ( known ) or whats in the mystery container ( unknown ) you might have the same spread on your popularity / preference graph.

 

A few small details like falling personal income , higher insurance costs and a LOT of people still not working is all on Obama.

Maybe those other nations can pass the hat for us for a change instead of us supporting them and being the worlds police force.

 

The excessive spending by our government has to stop and politicians from both sides have kicked the can down the road for too long.

I hope it starts to change with the next president. Romney is unknown and I really do not think Obama has a clue what to do.

 

So you actually think cutting tax revenue 20% and increasing defense spending double digits will rein in the federal budget deficit. What kind of math do you use anyway? Romney has only named FIMA, Amtrak, and PBS/NPR for budget cuts. Sorry, but that is like change in your pocket when you look at federal budget in total. Romney won't touch Social Security, Medicare, or foodstamps/unemployment because even if Romney gets in, American people are smart enought to keep Senate Demo because they know Repubs would try to do something stupid with across the board mandate. So you get very little in budget cuts, much lower tax revenue, and increased defense spending will overwhelm any budget cuts as to increase the budget deficit instead of reining it in. Even if the economy grows slightly quicker under Romney, it won't be enough to make up for tax cut and increased defense spending. Tax cuts in and of themselves don't increase jobs significantly. That was proven during the Bush years. For example, Audi announced it's going to build new North American assembly plant in Mexico next year. Romney announcing 20% tax cut wouldn't change that decision.

[FordBuyer]

I think Romney is getting a bad rap from Bush-era backlash. I think the international community loathed Bush, and it will take a few years of a republican president to make an effort to connect with other countries (and not take the "We are America, we know whats best for the world" attitude). Hopefully we get out of the middle east and stay out of it for the rest of our days.

 

 

 

 

 

The old running joke that Americans are fat, lazy, and stupid is still alive and well across much of Europe. I'd like to see that change at some point.

 

That map is pretty scary, too Retro. But hey I guess it's time to cut education again. :rolleyes:

 

Certainly, simple math is a very challenging endeavor for many Americans as they say they will vote for Romney because they like his economic plan and how the "math adds up." If Romney gets in, they will find out soon enough how the math doesn't add up making things even worse.

[xr7g428]

We are in a death spiral right now.

 

Spending on Social Security, Medicare / Medicaid, and the interest on the debt exceeds 100% of the total revenue of the Federal Government.

 

We need an additional $1 Trillion a year in new government revenue to just get us back to even. Our debt is now over 100% of GDP.

 

 

We have three alternatives:

 

Cut spending. Even if you eliminated 100% of everything but SS, Medicare / Medicaid, and the interest payments, we would still be in the red.

Increase taxes. We would need to double EVERYONES taxes to cover the deficit. Taking that much money out of the economy would surely kill us all.

Grow the economy. If we can get the 23 million Americans that are currently unemployed or under employed back to work, it will reduce spending and increase revenue at the same time. This is really our only hope for a non catastrophic future.

 

To get those people back to work we MUST do things that encourage business.

 

If you find yourself in a hole the first thing to do is to stop digging. We must stop doing things that make hiring employees more expensive. Getting rid of Obama care is a good start. The cost of a family insurance policy is about $15 an hour. Most employees don't get this fully paid for, but they also don't know what it really costs.

 

Looking at the Romney plan, part one is the most important. Energy independence will put $450 billion, per year, back into our economy. That is the equivalent of half the stimulus package every year. Lowering energy costs reduces the cost of everything and puts money back into the pockets of consumers. The Obama plan is to attempt to drive the growth of more expensive wind and solar projects which requires that fossil fuel prices be kept as high as is reasonably possible.

 

The practical effect of part two is to drive an increase in the value of the Chinese currency. This has the twin effects of increasing he cost of China made goods, and also lowering the cost of US exports to China. The Chinese realize this and see the value of doing it, but they want to move slowly. Obama has been weary of doing this because it would increase the price of many consumer goods. Romney is betting that technology will reduce costs, faster than the increase in the value of the currency.

 

Both Obama and Romney are in agreement on part three. The difference being that Obama wants to facilitate people paying back student loans more slowly. The problem with this is that people are borrowing money to get useless degrees already, why make that more attractive?

 

Part four really is only possible if the economy grows. The math is really simple we can't tax or cut our way out of this mess.

 

Part five addresses the real problem in the economy: The risk of starting a new business goes up with more regulations and employer mandates. This comes down to main-street versus wall street. Obama bailed out the big wall street banks, insurance companies, the unions, and the biggest businesses in the country. They aren't the biggest employers and they are not growing. If you work for Ford, they just helped your biggest competitors. If you work for GM you probably better vote for Obama.

Edited October 30, 2012 by xr7g428

[FordBuyer]

We are in a death spiral right now.

 

Spending on Social Security, Medicare / Medicaid, and the interest on the debt exceeds 100% of the total revenue of the Federal Government.

 

We need an additional $1 Trillion a year in new government revenue to just get us back to even. Our debt is now over 100% of GDP.

 

 

We have three alternatives:

 

Cut spending. Even if you eliminated 100% of everything but SS, Medicare / Medicaid, and the interest payments, we would still be in the red.

Increase taxes. We would need to double EVERYONES taxes to cover the deficit. Taking that much money out of the economy would surely kill us all.

Grow the economy. If we can get the 23 million Americans that are currently unemployed or under employed back to work, it will reduce spending and increase revenue at the same time. This is really our only hope for a non catastrophic future.

 

To get those people back to work we MUST do things that encourage business.

 

If you find yourself in a hole the first thing to do is to stop digging. We must stop doing things that make hiring employees more expensive. Getting rid of Obama care is a good start. The cost of a family insurance policy is about $15 an hour. Most employees don't get this fully paid for, but they also don't know what it really costs.

 

Looking at the Romney plan, part one is the most important. Energy independence will put $450 billion, per year, back into our economy. That is the equivalent of half the stimulus package every year. Lowering energy costs reduces the cost of everything and puts money back into the pockets of consumers. The Obama plan is to attempt to drive the growth of more expensive wind and solar projects which requires that fossil fuel prices be kept as high as is reasonably possible.

 

The practical effect of part two is to drive an increase in the value of the Chinese currency. This has the twin effects of increasing he cost of China made goods, and also lowering the cost of US exports to China. The Chinese realize this and see the value of doing it, but they want to move slowly. Obama has been weary of doing this because it would increase the price of many consumer goods. Romney is betting that technology will reduce costs, faster than the increase in the value of the currency.

 

Both Obama and Romney are in agreement on part three. The difference being that Obama wants to facilitate people paying back student loans more slowly. The problem with this is that people are borrowing money to get useless degrees already, why make that more attractive?

 

Part four really is only possible if the economy grows. The math is really simple we can't tax or cut our way out of this mess.

 

Part five addresses the real problem in the economy: The risk of starting a new business goes up with more regulations and employer mandates. This comes down to main-street versus wall street. Obama bailed out the big wall street banks, insurance companies, the unions, and the biggest businesses in the country. They aren't the biggest employers and they are not growing. If you work for Ford, they just helped your biggest competitors. If you work for GM you probably better vote for Obama.

 

Big hole in what you say. Affordable Care Act actually decreases the deficit over time, not increase it. So by trying to repeal ACA like Romney proposes or will be unable to do with Demo Senate standing in way, Romney would actually be increasing the deficit even more over time if he could do Houdini act. Health care costs "only" went up 4.1% in last year, and that was lowest in like 20 years. And most of it was attributed to ACA. In fact, Romney wants to add $750 million back to Medicare that ACA took away. Again, adding more deficit if you are paying attention. I remember well the double digit heathcare cost increases year after year, and 4.1% while higher than overall inflation is a lot better than the double digit increases during 8 years of Bush and making it unaffordable for more and more Americans.

[the_spaniard]

Wow, incredible generalizations flying again. So what exactly are "worthless" degrees? Anything outside of STEM? You can make a living with a B.A. in music, you just have to be flexible and disciplined. How about a PHD in Anthropology or Psychology?Are those worthless?

 

I don't tell my nephew to only follow his dreams that make him money. I tell him that he should follow his heart and do whatever he wants.

 

Or do we have people here that support that idiot Rick Scott of Florida?

[GaryG]

Wow, incredible generalizations flying again. So what exactly are "worthless" degrees? Anything outside of STEM? You can make a living with a B.A. in music, you just have to be flexible and disciplined. How about a PHD in Anthropology or Psychology?Are those worthless?

 

I don't tell my nephew to only follow his dreams that make him money. I tell him that he should follow his heart and do whatever he wants.

 

Or do we have people here that support that idiot Rick Scott of Florida?

 

You got that right! I let my Son go his own path and do what he wanted. He was self motivated all the way and was valedictorian with a 5.3 GPA and graduated from MIT with a 4.7 GPA. Became a Millonaire at age 26 selling a start-up (Hunch.com) to Ebay a year ago. Honesty Pays!

 

Rick Scott is a crook and has sold Floridians to the Insurance Industry. My Homeowners insurance dropped many coverages and raised my rates till it is no good anymore and expensive. Voters need to be smart and don't vote for LIARS.