Comparos against Accord - Audi S6: driving reviews, prices from dealers.. my road to Titanium AWD

[kki000]

Well here goes, the sordid details of my 3+ months of searching for a new car.

 

I will be including as much details on the actual driving character of each car along with some key features that stood out for me..

 

Quick background, my last car purchase was back in 05. Came down to a decision between an acura TL, inf G35x, and a bmw 330xi.

Wound up leasing the Infiniti, 39 months 12k miles year. (Mileage at the turn in was only 23k. I only drive it on wknds, i work /live in nyc so I commute by subway)

The need here, I had 2 kids since the infiniti, so I needed a bigger car.

 

First batter up was the Kia Optima.

Giuffre Kia, offered to take me out in a NON turbo EX, even though i called ahead to make sure the turbo engine was available..

Finally another annoyed salesman agreed to take me out on a brand new black 2013 SX, which they werent supposed to let ppl drive but were doing me a favor yadda yadda.

Since it was so close to closing, was only a 10 minute test drive, essentially around the block.

Impressions were good overall, ample power, nicely weighted steering, wasnt too light.

Interior was a bit of a mixed bag.

Was nice and roomy, big trunk and you could tell they tried awful hard to make it nice... but it had some issues.

The door pull on the inside was very cheap looking / feeling, and there were some hard plastic where i wouldnt have expected. The middle seat in the back was useless with little to no head room.

Also $35k msrp for a Kia seemed pretty crazy.

Sale price was around $29k, came to $439 month with everything rolled in. (36 month 12k yr, taxes fees everything rolled in)

Was nice ride, but I didnt think it was worth it.

Compared to the fusion, it certainly has a bit more power, but not by much.

 

Next up, 2013 Altima.

Bayridge Nissan.

Again called to make sure they had a v6 car to drive.

Arrived to find they've never recd one.(sense a theme here?)

Agreed to take out a 4 cylinder while i was there.

Good looking car. Drove like my father in laws camry, steering very light, almost no feel.

Nothing much happened when I floored it, just more noise, not much acceleration.

The CVT was a non starter. I called back a few times to check if they had a v6 in stock, but gave up after a while. They kept trying to talk me into a maxima if I wanted the v6.

The car was within a few weeks of launch, so lease prices were awful as well, 440+ for the v6 SL.

I was also not so crazy about the build quality. Go check out the exterior door pulls, they wiggle and jiggle like no one really gave a crap.

For a control surface you will be interacting with constantly, i dont understand how anyone makes something like this.

I guess I was expecting a bigger infiniti for cheap with the Altima.. but i was a bit disappointed.

 

 

Going to break this up into a few posts.. or give up if no one is interested!

Still to come -

2013 VW Passat V6,

2013 Honda Accord V6

2013 Audi A6, and S6 (Ill explain why)

2012 Inf M37x

2013 Lexus GS350 awd

2013 Acura TL AWD

2008 BMW 535 xi

 

K

Edited December 3, 2012 by kki000

[MineralstangGT]

Can't wait to read them!

[chuckokie36]

Keep going, very interesting to all us "Car folks"

[Morcelu]

Very interested in seeing your impressions on this range of cars.

[jeff_h]

I think a prevailing theme that you and many of us have seen is that dealers often do/say whatever you want to hear in order to get you in the door... and then you're on their turf and "new car fever" takes over. I've listened to some people talk about their car purchases in the past and heard them say "I just didn't feel like looking all over town and dealing with the hassle. so I went with the best I could see on the dealer's lot"... now you would never hear me say such a thing but if other consumers want to do that, it's their money and time. But in saying that I wonder how many consumers are like that and just grab whatever is convenient since it's on the lot and ready for delivery NOW... and for this type of consumer I guess there are salesman that will say "ph yeah I 'think' we have that V6 on hand, come on down" and then you get there and they suddenly 'just sold it' and the bait-n-swtich is alive and well.

 

Thanks for the post, keep 'em coming.

[hermans]

I'm very thankful for the fact that when it's time for me to buy a new Ford I just walk into any dealer and either order or pick out what I want. There is no discussion over price. I just tell them I'm buying A-Z Plan. It's actually fun for me to buy a car as there is no haggling over the price. I've bought my last 10 cars this way.

[raleel]

I'll make another post for my own experience. Mine is not nearly so sordid, but pretty well sure that if I walk on the lot and the said they have one and they don't, I will walk off and they won't get my business.

[TurboTi]

My own comparison has been on going for the last few years. I wanted a four-door, so my Mom and my Dog could ride in the back, because it's hard for my Mom to get in the back of my Mustang. Cars I've considered:

Sonic sedan: nice, but a little narrow, and the taillights a little too tall.

Verano: quiet, perhaps a little too rounded, overall doesn't really stun me.

Focus sedan: nice, but twin-clutch tranny not sorted out, no turbo.

This car then turned into a car that my girlfriend and I could own together, to use like a commuter car for work (we work in the same building) which doubled the amount we could spend so the list now included:

Rio Sedan

Dodge Dart

Kia Optima

Kia Sportage

Hyundai Elantra

These all got eliminated for the following reasons:

Rio Sedan: My Girlfriend didn't like the engine sound, and since it's made in Korea, you can't custom order it, so we'd have to search around until we got one exactly how we wanted. The dealer also had Sportages and Optimas, so I guess the Rio didn't make it past contender status.

Dart: I got swept up in this one, but the more I looked at pictures of it, the more under-whelmed I got. Plus at launch, the twin-clutch auto was not yet ready for the turbo engine, so no deal.

Elantra: Also got all excited about this one, but I didn't stay excited about the body design, plus we could now afford something nicer.

Sportage: I like this, we would have got one of these with a turbo, but I guess it didn't quite trip the buy-o-meter.

Optima: the last condender against the Fusion. Like the exterior design, but it's already lost it's edge I feel. I prefer the Fusion in all exterior views except from the rear, I really like the Optima taillamp design, but it doesn't have the Titanium lit eyebrow effect....I also like the glass roof, double sunroof in the Optima, but the interior just isn't happening for me.

 

It actually took me a while to warm up to the Fusion. It seemed like the sides were too slabby, and the back wasn't that great. But I love the front end, and everything I've read and seen tell me this will be a great car for us. I think Ford really did a good job.

[-Strike-]

Yeah, I had the same issue, they didn't have a V6 Altima, but the guy was super persistant on putting me in a Maxima, even had me test drive a 12' because they're supposidly essentially the same as the 13' coming now, and he would not leave me alone. Was email after email, and pressuring me into the "deal of the day" because this car is just for me!"

 

And, the fact that I drove my Nissan Z car there, he was all over me to get into the power of the Maxima!!!!1

Edited November 18, 2012 by -Strike-

[Camride]

Very interested in the OPs experience.

 

And I hate sales people that think they know what you want better than you do. I'm glad I got a really cool, laid back guy at the Ford dealership. Most of the other dealerships I went to the sales people were nice but somewhat pushy, with the Mazda guy telling me how every other car was crap and Mazdas were amazing. Someone drank a whole lot of koolaid.

[-Strike-]

Yeah, my sales people at Ford here are awesome, no pressure at all. Basically, went in and chatted about the new Fusion for a bit, see what they thought about it, they told me a few stories about their test drive event for the dealerships, and I requested a little more info and pricing, and that was about it, I went back later that day and said, let's order one! They seemed really excited for me, and them to have the first retail order for the new Fusion. Really stoked to have the first on order.

 

They refer to me as their number one 13' Fusion advocate, because I tend to fill them in on a lot of info about the car, and some things they didn't even know. :D Went back after a bit to test drive their Titanium that they had in, sales guy was sad because he's never been in the drivers seat! Great bunch of guys.

[MineralstangGT]

Can't wait to hear more from the OP.

 

Regarding dealers, to me they are always sub par. My wife and I went to the Fusion night at one in Denver this last week and it was ridiculous. 15 sales guys waiting to pounce on every customer who came in. Salesmen calling it a Taurus and other things that show they have little to no knowledge of the car. Its just discouraging. As a z-plan buyer I just want to test drive several with my wife and make a decision on which we want without the runaround. If anyone knows a good dealership in the Denver metro area, let me know.

 

It was the first time we has sat in one though and it was great. More room than I expected, and I liked the feel in the drivers seat. Just need to drive several when they start to come in around here. Sorry to go so off topic. OP, can't wait to read more.

[elmy311]

Love reading stuff like this....can't wait to see the rest!

[TurboTi]

My salesman is cool too, Strike. There is no pressure from him. We talked about cars, we both have Mustangs, (of course mine is way cooler than his, even though his is newer) and I just told him what I wanted. I already had it commited to memory, and I put my $500 down on August 19.

[kki000]

Next up was the Accord..

Bay Ridge Honda.

Called for a v6 test drive.. and they actually had one!

Salesman claims the v6 only arrived that week.

Great looking car imo. My buddy who went with me, this was his favorite car aesthetically.

Lots of power, in fact hard to keep the tires from squeeling every time you gassed it.

I was used to just hitting the gas and not causing a scene at every intersection. Also noticed a good amount of torque steer in turns.

Started to dawn on me that going to a fwd car might be an issue for me.

Otherwise I liked the accord very much, was expecting it to much more boring.

Steering was still a little lite for my tastes, but much better than the 4 cylinder altima.

The right turn camera trick was very cool.

Interior was pretty well put together, although my wife complained a little bit about the seats.

 

When it came to numbers time... he says he was doing me a favor by giving MSRP... says they were supposed to charge 1k over. I actually laughed out loud..

He made a few trips to his manager while i was putting the baby in the stroller, i think it came down 2 grand below msrp, 29k for the v6 w/o navi. About 450+ for the lease.

At this point, the accord was the leading candidate, but the plan was to let the prices die down a bit.

 

Next up was the Passat at the VW dealer across the street.(Bayridge again)

Truth be told, i was only here because my wife liked this car so much.

The back seats are literally limo-like, a ton of rear leg room on this car.

The rest of the interior was just meh for me. A ton of hard plastic across alot of real estate, even on the top of the line SEL trim.

Took 3 trips to actually drive a v6, they had to pull it down from the roof/service lot?

 

Heres the short version.

Simply the best driving fwd car Ive ever driven.

The steering was very precise, lots of road feel. Still a bit light, but very very good.

A ton of power, the DSG felt great. No torque converter!

You down shift too much, the tach bounces off the rev limiter, its no pretend manu matic.

 

So this was the car.. search over!

I got the best deal from a westchester dealer, 374 a month, all inclusive, sign and drive 42 months.

The hunt for the right trim and color began... SEL v6, in blue... which of course no one had in stock...

 

Next post.... Return of The AWDs

[MineralstangGT]

So you bought the Passat?

[kki000]

So no, passat on hold for now.

 

I had faith that fwd + snow tires would get me by 98% of all bad winter situations, but I remember the horrible winters, where it took all of the awd AND snow tires to get over the embankment the snow plows created and the awful hills near the ski house in vermont near the inlaws.

That plus the tire squeel on the fwd VW when i gassed it, gave me pause.

I figure I should sow my awd oats before i make the big purchase.

 

So next up was the A6/S6, Palisades Audi

I know what yer saying, but the main reason we were there was for my brother in law who was shopping for an S6 for himself.

None were in stock, so we took turns in a loaded a6.

I loved this car.

 

In all manners, the A6 is the superior than the Ford, as it should be for double the price.

Steering precision, the handling, the a6 corners much flatter, the acceleration is much more visceral.

As for the interior, he the ambient lighting on the Audi is like going into a fine old theater, with classy little sconces subtly lighting the way.

The middle seat in the Audi is more or less useless in the back, as the drive tunnel is massive.

The trunk is much smaller than the fusion.

This plus the $730+ month for a lease, easily ruled out the A6 with my wife, although i gave it my all to convince her otherwise.

 

Quick note on the S6, my bros in law did buy it, about a month ago and I had a chance a few times to drive / abuse it.

That machine is a beast, a sleeper super car.

Sub 4 second 0-60 , literally drives like a slot car.

In the S6, the brakes are entirely OPTIONAL for day to day driving.

Theres not a local road that you really need to brake in this car.

It was a frightening experiment.... 90 degree turns, no brakes. Hardly a tire squeel, just flat cornering, limitless grip, yer body thrown sideways as you try to hang onto the wheel.

After the failed A6 attempt with the wife, next up was the Lexus gs350. (Manhattan Lexus)

Drove the awd with F line trim.

Interior is a touch below the audi imo. The huge color screen was great.

The performance gap with the a6 is substantial.

Its funny how the msrp for the 2 are essentially the same, but you would have to be on crack to pick the lexus. The audi overall is much better driver, better performance all around.

Compared to the Ford, again different league price wise but specifically the gs pulls harder and corners flatter.

Lease wise was around 650 all inclusive for 27 months. Same msrp as the audi, but much less expensive lease.

 

Next Manhattan Infiniti, m37x prem package.

This felt like coming home.. LIke my old g but bigger, heavier, a bit more power.

Really liked it. The tranny is a bit indecisive when you let it shift by itself in normal mode.

I found even on my brief test drive on the west side hway, a few times when i gassed it, it paused, made up its mind and gave me throttle.

Not an issue in sport mode and obviously when you shift your self.

Drove better than the lexus imo, worse than the audi.

Interior is behind both cars, but compared to the fusion, even with less wood in the ford, i’m not missing the infiniti’s interior much.

Lease wise, i actually left a deposit on this car.

on a 2012, dealer offered 500 even a month + tax. (10k yr)

Came out to ~550 with 12k miles and tax.

I felt it was a good compromise between price / performance and size.

The wife disagreed, trunk too small, too expensive.

You have not lived until you have begged for your money back from a car dealer.. after you tell them your wife won’t let you get it.

 

Next post will be acura and ford... finally.

Edited November 30, 2012 by kki000

[Charlee]

KKI,

 

Your experience is almost the same as mine. I had a self imposed $34,000 limit so I didn't try to tempt myself with the Audi, which I felt would be the best car. The first two cars I eliminated were the Mazda CX5 (mediocre quality and no zoom) and the VW CC (always hit my head getting in and out). Considered the Sonata but there are a lot of them in my area and I wanted something different (the price of success for Hyundai). That left the Optima, Altima and Santa Fe Sport to consider before the Fusion's release. I was very impressed with all three. The Optima's price and interior color eliminated it. The Altima stayed in the running but browsing thru Edmunds' consumer reviews makes me glad I didn't pick it. Also, one of the magazine reviews made the statement that if you settle for the Altima, you are showing the world you've given up.

The first week of first drive reviews for the Fusion eliminated the Santa Fe. I placed my order from my local dealer in September for the Fusion SE Hybrid the day after I drove the 1.6 SE. When November rolled around and I still didn't have any numbers or dates to confirm my order, I found that a dealer 210 miles away had the exact car that I had ordered as part of their initial order with Ford and they were getting it in a week. A deposit over the phone sealed the deal and I've been driving my Fusion Hybrid for three weeks now. Since I know the MPG is constantly getting better, I couldn't be happier with my purchase.

My son came up with an excellent analysis. The Optima's styling appeals more to men. The Sonata's styling more to women. The Ford Fusion blends the two into a car that appeals to almost everyone.

[bobdivot]

KKI,

 

Also, one of the magazine reviews made the statement that if you settle for the Altima, you are showing the world you've given up.

.

That is just so absolutely hilarious. Take it from a 'car guy' who drove a '05 Altima as a commuter the last four years. It did its job and never let me down, but I felt that way every stinkin' moment I was in that car. Took one for the team....but no more. Night and day difference

[kki000]

I'll try and wrap this up.

For a few weeks now I had been trying to test drive the fusion.

Emphasize the TRY.

Been in contact via email with Manhattan ford, regarding the 2013 model.. the internet lady constantly asking when i can come in, even though she didnt have any in stock.

Told her to call me when she has a 2013 AWD to drive.

She emails saying they have the car!! When can I come in?

I asked her again to confirm it was the awd.. she says uhmm no, fwd, when can I come in?

/sigh

I tell her again to call me when she gets an awd.

Week later, we have the awd, when can I come in?

I tell her I need confirmation she has awd trim.. she says she spoke to her sale manager, awd definitely available to drive.

Yay, i can come in today i tell her.

You see where this is going?

 

I arrive at my "appointment" 2 minutes early, wait 15 minutes for internet lady to come out and hand me off to a sales man.

20 minutes later, car is ready.

It was a fwd se... salesman was actually a nice guy, apologized profusely.

This was my first time actually seeing the car so I at least did the walk around, I was impressed with the interior of even this trim, trunk was huge, back seat is a little tight though.

He walked me upstairs to show me the awd in the bldg, was a titanium car they used for local commercials and magazine shoots. It's a ford corporate owned car, says he will get fired if he takes me out in it.

 

Acura TL, Manhattan acura. Ill cut to the chase, asked for the awd on the phone, wait at the dealer, salesman drives up in a fwd car.

Says to me its the same car, will drive the same. I recommend they change the marketing tag to super handling same old s!@T.

Walk out none too happy, scheule a test drive by my bros in law's house, Curry Acura.

2012 Acura tl awd tech.

I liked the way it drove for the most part, steering is heavy, but not alot of feedback.

Good power, nothing earth shattering.

Trunk is small, in the awd, the floor is not even flat.

I was much less impressed with the interior, I'm not even sure its better than the new honda accord trim.

I would not rate higher than the fusion in fact.

This car is being redone in 2014, had alot of incentives. On a 2012 model, the salesman quoted me 38k, invoice minus 3500.

My main gripe with this car, is really the looks. Even with the revised beak, i cant really name an uglier new sedan. Maybe the malibu... but at least thats alot cheaper.

 

Bayridge Ford finally got me in a fusion awd.

By far this was my best car dealer experience.

Howard made sure the car was available... and holy crap there it was.

Tricoat white awd with all the driving nannies.

 

What hit me immediately was that the fusion was very similar to the acura, in almost every way.

Had similar power, the steering actually felt better and I liked the interior of this trim better than the acura's.

 

The suspension is definitely softer on the fusion. Living in the middle of Brooklyn, this was probably a good thing.

The fact that this thing was so close if not better than a car with 12k+ on its msrp was very, very impressive.

 

 

That sealed the deal for me, essentially it was a much cheaper, much better looking acura.

Which brings me to the point of all this, which is that against top flight, top shelf sedans like the audi, the ford does come up short.

But against the infinitis and acura's of the world (and to a certain extent the lexus), if you dont at least test drive the fusion, you are being a huge ignoramus.

 

I never thought i would ever buy a ford, but a month after that test drive, I FINALLY found a black titanium awd with just navi in new jersey.

ill post the sale process and post ownership notes, but after a month or so with this car, i am still very satisfied and happy with the decision.

Edited December 2, 2012 by kki000

[-Strike-]

Awesome. Been a great post to follow for sure. I've only had mine for a day now, and I honestly cannot wait until the next time I have to go out. It amazes me every time. Such a great handling car.

[chuckokie36]

Thanks!! Great reading.

[Camride]

Awesome OP, thanks for the details. I'm glad to see the Fusion come out so well when comparing to cars $10k+ its senior.