OEM Tires shipped on Hybrid Titaniums

[Former Expedition owner]

I originally posted this in the 19" rims for Hybrid Titaniums thread, but I believe the topic deserves it's own thread.

 

 

Last week, I asked @FordService what tires come stock on a Fusion Hybrid Titanium. They got back to me this afternoon:

 

 

 

The Fusion Hybrid Titanium comes with 235/45R18 Goodyear Eagle LS2s. Hope that's all the info you need ^MK

 

 

When I look at Tirerack, the Goodyear Eagle LS2 is not listed as Low Rolling Resistance (LRR).

 

In fact, I couldn't find ANY Low Rolling Resistance (LRR) tires in the 235/45R18 size.

 

So, Ford is shipping the Fusion Hybrid Titaniums with only one possible rim (18") and non-LRR tires?

 

How did they get 47/47/47 MPG with non-LRR tires?

[jared6788]

They are LRR. See: http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52490-progress-on-orders-for-fusion-energi-and-hybrid-titanium/page-60&do=findComment&comment=841867

[jsellar]

I looked at the build details on etis for my car.

 

It lists the tires as: Normal Rolling Resistant Tyre

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm no tire expert, but "Normal" does not equal "Low"

[jared6788]

I looked at the build details on etis for my car.

 

It lists the tires as: Normal Rolling Resistant Tyre

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm no tire expert, but "Normal" does not equal "Low"

 

Etis lists Fusions as Transit Connects. It's not an accurate system.

[Former Expedition owner]

They are LRR. See: http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52490-progress-on-orders-for-fusion-energi-and-hybrid-titanium/page-60&do=findComment&comment=841867

 

This is the post you are referring to?

 

2013 Fusion Tires and brands

Fusion S - 215/60R16 95H Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max

Fusion SE - 235/50R17 96H Michelin Energy Saver AS

SE upgrade - 235/45R18 94V Goodyear Eagle LS2

Hybrid - 225/50R17 93V Michelin Energy Saver AS

Hybrid upgrade - 235/45R18 94V Goodyear Eagle LS2

Titanium - 235/45R18 94V Goodyear Eagle LS2

Titanium upgrade - 235/40R19 96V Continental ContiProContact

The Goodyear Eagle LS2 is not a low rolling resistance tire. The Goodyear low rolling resistance tire is called "Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max"

 

I looked on the Goodyear page and did not see the LS2 listed as LRR. Goodyear puts a little gas pump symbol and the words "fuel efficient" if the tire is LRR.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Former Expedition owner

[jared6788]

Read the rest of the post...

[nmadole]

They are the same wheels on the regular hybrid with the sport package .... They are most certainly not LRR

Edited April 3, 2013 by nmadole

[Former Expedition owner]

They are the same wheels on the regular hybrid with the sport package .... They are most certainly not LRR

 

Exactly my point...

[Fastronaut]

So why would Ford use a non-LRR tire? Are the 235/45R18 Goodyear Eagle LS2's going to drop MPG by any noticeable amount?

 

(I notice Goodyear does not make an 18 inch Assurance Fuel Max tire.)

Edited April 4, 2013 by Fastronaut

[Former Expedition owner]

I started a conversation with @FordService a few days ago concerning the tires on the HyTi. I asked them what tires come standard and then if these tires are LRR. Here are their responses:

 

[GaryG]

So why would Ford use a non-LRR tire? Are the 235/45R18 Goodyear Eagle LS2's going to drop MPG by any noticeable amount?

 

(I notice Goodyear does not make an 18 inch Assurance Fuel Max tire.)ore

 

For some reason Ford does not put the real fuel efficient tires or rims on all model packages. Both the 2012 Focus SEL and Titanium came with crappy tires that wore out in 20,000 miles. The dealers like this because they get a chance to replace them so soon and make a buck. I got great tires and rims on my '11 Explorer Limited with 20" Hankook and stock Limited rims. The optional polished 20" rims are too heavy and hurt MPG. I've checked out what tires and rims came with my Explorer and '09 FEH before ordering, but my '12 Focus SEL I didn't do any research and bought it from dealer stock.

 

It is great to see people starting to learn about saving fuel now, but do some research about light weight rims and LRR tires before you buy. Don't buy the crap and Ford with quit trying to sell it.You would think the Titanium models would come with the best fuel efficient tires and rims, but you get what you get. I found this out on my '09 FEH Limited that came with heavier rims than the standard hybrid. The heavier rims cost me 3-4mpg a tank.

[Fastronaut]

OK, so I emailed Goodyear Customer Service about he question of LRR Goodyear Eagle LS2's and here is their response:

 

Thank you for contacting our web site and for considering Goodyear for your replacement tire needs.

 

With high gas prices, more consumers are interested in fuel-efficient cars, including hybrids, that can help them save some money at the pump. They also sometimes ask which tires are rated best for fuel efficiency or low rolling resistance.

 

There currently are no such standards and labels on tires. Legislation is being considered to create a type of rating system for rolling resistance or fuel efficiency of tires, with rating results provided at point-of-sale in retail outlets, but not on the tire itself. The legislation would also require an element of consumer education on proper tire care. But many questions remain unanswered. Studies show that many varying conditions – no matter the tire type – affect fuel efficiency. These include type of vehicle, road surface, vehicle load, temperatures, tire inflation pressure and more. Also, legislators are concerned that reductions in tread thickness, volume and mass are among the means available to reduce rolling resistance, yet those qualities would likely be undesirable if they lead to shorter tire lives and increased numbers of scrap tires.

 

Jennifer - Consumer Relations

[Fastronaut]

For some reason Ford does not put the real fuel efficient tires or rims on all model packages. Both the 2012 Focus SEL and Titanium came with crappy tires that wore out in 20,000 miles. The dealers like this because they get a chance to replace them so soon and make a buck. I got great tires and rims on my '11 Explorer Limited with 20" Hankook and stock Limited rims. The optional polished 20" rims are too heavy and hurt MPG. I've checked out what tires and rims came with my Explorer and '09 FEH before ordering, but my '12 Focus SEL I didn't do any research and bought it from dealer stock.

 

It is great to see people starting to learn about saving fuel now, but do some research about light weight rims and LRR tires before you buy. Don't buy the crap and Ford with quit trying to sell it.You would think the Titanium models would come with the best fuel efficient tires and rims, but you get what you get. I found this out on my '09 FEH Limited that came with heavier rims than the standard hybrid. The heavier rims cost me 3-4mpg a tank.

We don't seem to have any choice as buyers of a Titanium.

[GaryG]

We don't seem to have any choice as buyers of a Titanium.

 

I was in the same boat with my '09 FEH Limited rims, they came with Michelin Latitude Tour tires which don't say LRR, but they are.

 

You do however still have a choice on replacement tires when that time comes. Compare the weight (Tire Rack.com) of your tires compared to the tires you can choose from for your rim size. I'd also see what Ford is putting on the plug-in Fusion. Another choice you can make is your tire pressure. The top hypermilers will run 50-60 psi to get improved MPG, handling, and the tires will last much longer. At first, I didn't feel good about running that high of tire pressure, but now I see all the benefits and will never run door sticker and waste all my time and money on that BS. I found all my analog pressure gauges read even 5psi higher than the true pressure. I bought a digital tire pressure gauge at a racing shop that is within .5psi of the true tire pressure. Just think if you thought you were putting 35psi in your tires and only had 30psi in them, your handling, MPG and tire wear would go too SH**. I have three different nice analog pressure gauges and they all read 5psi high. That's no problem because I know to add 5psi more in my tires when using those gauges.

 

I live in Jupiter FL and have a racing shop 2 miles away. I just drove by and picked this pressure gauge up in stock. Here is the one I bought: http://www.amazon.com/Longacre-Economy-Digital-Pressure-Gauge/dp/B000VB43L0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1365188774&sr=8-4&keywords=tire+pressure+gauge+longacre

[TerrorTodd]

I was in the same boat with my '09 FEH Limited rims, they came with Michelin Latitude Tour tires which don't say LRR, but they are.

 

You do however still have a choice on replacement tires when that time comes. Compare the weight (Tire Rack.com) of your tires compared to the tires you can choose from for your rim size. I'd also see what Ford is putting on the plug-in Fusion. Another choice you can make is your tire pressure. The top hypermilers will run 50-60 psi to get improved MPG, handling, and the tires will last much longer. At first, I didn't feel good about running that high of tire pressure, but now I see all the benefits and will never run door sticker and waste all my time and money on that BS. I found all my analog pressure gauges read even 5psi higher than the true pressure. I bought a digital tire pressure gauge at a racing shop that is within .5psi of the true tire pressure. Just think if you thought you were putting 35psi in your tires and only had 30psi in them, your handling, MPG and tire wear would go too SH**. I have three different nice analog pressure gauges and they all read 5psi high. That's no problem because I know to add 5psi more in my tires when using those gauges.

 

I live in Jupiter FL and have a racing shop 2 miles away. I just drove by and picked this pressure gauge up in stock. Here is the one I bought: http://www.amazon.com/Longacre-Economy-Digital-Pressure-Gauge/dp/B000VB43L0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1365188774&sr=8-4&keywords=tire+pressure+gauge+longacre

 

So what pressure do you run in your tires?

[GaryG]

So what pressure do you run in your tires?

 

I find my tires on my '09 FEH Michelins and '11 Explorer Hankook tires run very well at 55psi. Michelin max sidewall is 44psi and the door sticker says 35psi on my FEH. Max sidewall on the Explorer Hankooks are 51psi and the door sticker says 35psi. The Hankook front tires have never been rotated and still may get 50,000 miles out of them and I'm at 44,000 miles now. The back Hankook tires may go 90,000 the way they look today. I have 30,000 miles on my Michelin Tours and they still look like new on the back and the fronts may go 55,000 without rotation. I corner hard to maintain speed as fast as I can as part of hypermiling. My wife and I share the Explorer, so the lifetime MPG is only 23.6mpg. I'm the only driver of my '09 FEH FWD with a lifetime MPG of 53.9mpg. Florida mandated 10% ethanol in April of '08, so I burn only 87 octane E10 even in my boat. Had to switch to a Honda 150hp 4 stroke on my Whaler because the 2 stroke 150hp ran like crap with E10.

[rprobst]

I'd also see what Ford is putting on the plug-in Fusion.

 

Michelin Energy Saver AS 225/50R17

 

Note: Not 235/50, which is what TireRack says.

Edited April 6, 2013 by rprobst

[jared6788]

I thought over inflating tires would make the middles wear faster?

[GaryG]

I thought over inflating tires would make the middles wear faster?

 

Forget myths, steel belted tires don't wear that way. My front tires wear a little more because of hard turns and FWD. Forget about the word over inflation if you want to improve handling, MPG and tire ware.

[RUBY ROYAL]

Forget myths, steel belted tires don't wear that way. My front tires wear a little more because of hard turns and FWD. Forget about the word over inflation if you want to improve handling, MPG and tire ware.

 

This is dangerous advice.

[Bearcats98]

This is dangerous advice.

Wait wait wait...so because a tire hasn't exploded its perfectly fine to run over pressure regardless of what the tie engi eers put on the sidewalls?

 

I guess those tire pressures are merely recommendations.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Bearcats98

[akirby]

Wait wait wait...so because a tire hasn't exploded its perfectly fine to run over pressure regardless of what the tie engi eers put on the sidewalls?

 

I guess those tire pressures are merely recommendations.

 

Gary and the other hypermilers think they know more about tires than the people who actually build the tires. He thinks it's perfectly ok to run them at 100 PSI.

[aneekr]

Forget about the word over inflation if you want to improve handling, MPG and tire ware.

 

If you want to achieve optimum handling, fuel economy, and tire wear characterstics, forget about inflating tires to any pressure other than what's posted on the vehicle's information placard (door sticker). Also forget about the maximum pressure indicated on the tire sidewall, it is NOT relevant to consumers.

 

Running tire pressures signficantly lower or higher than what's posted on the door sticker is dangerous and may void warranties on the tires and/or vehicle.

[GaryG]

Gary and the other hypermilers think they know more about tires than the people who actually build the tires. He thinks it's perfectly ok to run them at 100 PSI.

 

Never ran my tires any where near 100psi, but that's where stunt drivers run them when they drive on two wheels. Funny how the manufactures use max sidewall with max load isn't it. What they're saying is if you fill your PU truck with a load of rock and the tires look near flat, you should add more air up to the max sidewall on the tire for handling. In this case, don't you think the load on the tires is much greater than my family car with less than 50% of max load with 55psi?

 

Hypermilers tend to experiment with techniques and things to improve MPG, and sometimes we find things that improve tire wear and handling as other benefits. Some hypermilers run their tires much higher than I, and none have reported any problems in over the ten years I've read about hypermiling. I admit I increased my tire pressure to 44psi at first and slowly raised them over time when I started seeing the benefits and not hearing of any safety problems with hypermilers running 60 - 80psi. I've met hundreds of hypermilers at MPG Challenges where we compete for the highest MPG above our EPA ratings. Some of these vehicles are cleaner under their cars than most people clean the outside of their cars. If anyone of them thought running their tires higher than max sidewall psi was a safety issue, they wouldn't take the risk in their vehicles and neither would I.

 

My front tires wear even because the tire doesn't ride on the outside of the tire in a turn. You get less traction if the tire pressure causes a shift of weight to one side of the tire or the other. Higher tire pressure keeps the tread flat on the road where you get the best traction. You get better traction in the rain for stopping and taking turns because the tread is flat across the tire. If your front tires are wearing on the outer edges, you need more air in them. When I go out to my vehicles and see how the front tires are wearing, I can't help from thinking how dumb I was when my tires where at the recommended tire pressure. Not only was I wasting money on new tires, but I was driving unsafe back then and didn't know it. I've ran my tires at the recommended pressures for most of my life, but thank God I became a hypermiler and wised up.

[gazingwa]

Wow, this has degraded quickly. Don't you think that if they could get more mileage out of a car for the window sticker(advertised numbers) they would have a higher inflation on the door tag(which is what they have to run during the tests). The costs outweigh the benefits or Ford would have set the inflation higher.

 

Also, FYI, my 1.6 SE 6MT Lux package 17" are Michelin Green tires. which are LRR