cal50 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 This...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDoA_vTxklI ....just doesn't jive with this...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuEWrPwlyYw ...period. A liar or just stupid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 A liar or just stupid. Both.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Both.... And somehow you missed where he apologized for people losing their healthcare in the year they did. Wow, if only Bush apologized for the Iraq war in 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 And somehow you missed where he apologized for people losing their healthcare in the year they did. Wow, if only Bush apologized for the Iraq war in 2003. As much as you cite Bush, one is led to wonder if thou are too fascinated with him. Fanciful? For you seem to have no eye for any other, but your fair facination. (Sorry. Watching "Much Ado About Nothing" by Joss Whedon and I am spun 'round the prose of the bard.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) As much as you cite Bush, one is led to wonder if thou are too fascinated with him. Fanciful? For you seem to have no eye for any other, but your fair facination. (Sorry. Watching "Much Ado About Nothing" by Joss Whedon and I am spun 'round the prose of the bard.) I found Senor Benedick's voice grating and harsh. It is no wonder why Beatrice was reluctant at first, as who wants to live with that forever. Of course the movie is filled with actors from his other shows. I just happened to rent that movie from RedBox last night. It's not as good as Branagh's version. Edited November 10, 2013 by Langston Hughes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg D Isringhaus Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I have seen peoples insurance go from $500 /month to $1300/month on Obummercare. What a genius move! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal50 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I doubt once the sign up numbers are released it will surprise anyone. The people that pay little or nothing now will sign up (if they can) . Many people that HAD insurance were cancelled and will be paying more. I have not herd of any reported cases where anyone that had insurance is doing better under the Obama mess. Obama really is the idiot of the century along with anyone that voted for the mess they created. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hopefully this gets approved by the censors. Heard this on a local radio station: March 21, 2010 to October 1, 2013 3 years, 6 months, 10 days December 7, 1941 to May 8, 19453 years, 5 months, 1 day A difference of roughly 39 days. What this means is that in the time we were attacked at Pearl Harbor to the day Germany surrendered is not enough time for this federal government to build a working website. Mobilization of millions, building tens of thousands of tanks, planes, jeeps, subs, cruisers, destroyers, torpedoes, millions upon millions of guns, bombs, ammo, etc. Turning the tide in North Africa, Invading Italy, D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, Race to Berlin - all while we were also fighting the Japanese in the Pacific. .........and they can't build a health care website. It's amazing how inept Bam Bam and his administration. Not taking responsibility for Fast and Furious. Not taking responsibility for the IRS scandal. Not taking responsibility for Benghazi. And now, not taking responsibility for the complete disaster that BamBam care has become. And you have to be seriously deficient in the IQ department if you believe that his NON-APOLOGY was sincere. Not only was that NOT an apology, he didn't take responsibility for anything. He is a liar....but that's nothing new. And FWIW, I work at a damn hospital. My insurance went UP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I have seen peoples insurance go from $500 /month to $1300/month on Obummercare. What a genius move! I'm told it's for their own good. And it's not just individuals. Many companies who provide health insurance to their employees are affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Preliminary numbers are in. 50K have signed up for O care so far and 4-5 million have lost their insurance. Out of the 50K nobody will say how many are young and healthy and how many are medicaid. You could not screw this up any worse if you tried. This is what happens when you elect a socialist with no experience running a dime store. This will go down as one of the biggest screw ups in history by the goverment. Now that is rolling the wheels are already coming off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 So this guy is suggesting that plans are not just being cancelled because they do not meet the ACA or they are not grandfathered in but because the insurance companies find that they can reduce the number of lower/mo profit plans and put more people in more profitable plans. Somehow you guys find that to be socialist and Obama faults. http://www.rrstar.com/article/20131109/NEWS/131109326/10443/NEWS?tag=3 THE RESEARCHER Jon Gabel is a senior fellow in the Health Care Research Department at the independent research organization NORC at the University of Chicago. Q: Why are so many Americans receiving cancellation notices? A: They are losing their policy because their insurer decided not to grandfather their existing plan. If the plan was grandfathered — if it remained largely the same as before the health law passed (in 2010) — it didn't have to meet requirements such as providing essential health benefits like maternity care. Why did insurers choose to grandfather some plans but not others? What I would speculate is obvious: The non-grandfathered plans were not viewed as profitable. Q: What did your research show about the health plans available on the individual market in 2010? A: We found that the majority — about 51 percent — of Americans were enrolled in plans that did not meet (the new law's requirements). In other words, they were covered by plans that paid less than 60 percent of the medical expenses for a standard population. We called them "tin plans." Q: Tin plans? A: I think of tin as being flimsy. These plans don't offer much financial protection. Q: But weren't people happy with these plans? A: People will like their plan until that moment they become sick and they discover it doesn't cover certain benefits, or what it pays is grossly limited, or it doesn't cover the doctor they want to see. Q: What did your research show about the difference between insurance provided by employers and insurance bought by individuals in 2010? A: Most employer-based health insurance was covering 80 to 89 percent of medical expenses for a standard population. ... That means you were far less likely to go bankrupt with employer-sponsored health insurance. Q: What's your reaction to so many Americans receiving cancellation notices? A: We have such a byzantine system for health insurance. The (president's) Affordable Care Act tried to make it kinder and gentler, but it is incredibly complex. I am surprised people are romanticizing the individual insurance market as it was. ... If you really needed health coverage, if you really were sick, you couldn't get it. Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/11/09/3106545/health-care-cancellations-2-intimate.html#storylink=cpy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) This is misleading. (although you do highlight that it is speculation in your post) It's true that if you reduce the size of the risk pool, that the economic viability overall (not just profits) are undermined. However, that assumes that those grandfathered plans could not have adjusted their premiums in conjunction with the size of the risk pool. It's the HHS that defines what is a substantive change under the Obamacare law, and it is largely a vague and inconsistently applied metric. No, the primary reason for eliminating those plans was the Obamacare law, not profitability. Edited November 12, 2013 by RangerM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) This is misleading. (although you do highlight that it is speculation in your post) It's true that if you reduce the size of the risk pool, that the economic viability overall (not just profits) are undermined. However, that assumes that those grandfathered plans could not have adjusted their premiums in conjunction with the size of the risk pool. It's the HHS that defines what is a substantive change under the Obamacare law, and it is largely a vague and inconsistently applied metric. No, the primary reason for eliminating those plans was the Obamacare law, not profitability. He's more knowledgeable about the situation so I'll defer to him over you, if you don't mind. Edited November 12, 2013 by Langston Hughes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 So you say. I'm not paying the online resource to get the whole paper so i guess that's the end of the point, but he does raise one about what is actually happening. Basically, the Obamacare law says that health insurance plans are grandfathered if they make no substantive changes. Then they define what those changes are. It constrains them to a point where they cannot function in response to market forces; and given they cannot enroll any additional persons OR adjust premiums/copays/provider network to mitigate those forces, it becomes economically unsustainable. Therefore, the grandfathered plan can no longer exist. It works exactly as Rand stated: One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 He's more knowledgeable about the situation so I'll defer to him over you, if you don't mind. Yes, as we've all heard ad nauseum, he knows more about what's good for us than we do. He says so in the interview you posted: Q: What did your research show about the health plans available on the individual market in 2010? A: We found that the majority — about 51 percent — of Americans were enrolled in plans that did not meet (the new law's requirements). In other words, they were covered by plans that paid less than 60 percent of the medical expenses for a standard population. We called them "tin plans." Q: Tin plans? A: I think of tin as being flimsy. These plans don't offer much financial protection. Q: But weren't people happy with these plans? A: People will like their plan until that moment they become sick and they discover it doesn't cover certain benefits, or what it pays is grossly limited, or it doesn't cover the doctor they want to see. Paternalism. Plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Even a die hard lib has to find it suspicious when all of these plans are being canceled right when O care rolls out even if its only on 3 wheels. There is no argument here. Ocare is the reason for the cancellations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Even a die hard lib has to find it suspicious when all of these plans are being canceled right when O care rolls out even if its only on 3 wheels. There is no argument here. Ocare is the reason for the cancellations. Where it's really going to hurt is when the employer mandate comes back up and the cancellations begin again around September/October next year. The cancellations and/or upset will be greatly magnified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Even a die hard lib has to find it suspicious when all of these plans are being canceled right when O care rolls out even if its only on 3 wheels. There is no argument here. Ocare is the reason for the cancellations. I'm guessing there is an argument here, as a person with a greater knowledge of the healthcare industry is rejecting your beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Yes, as we've all heard ad nauseum, he knows more about what's good for us than we do. He says so in the interview you posted: Paternalism. Plain and simple. I was referring to his knowledge of what is happening and why. You can deflect and act like you give a flying F*** about the people when we could have had single payer and none of this but you object to that too. So that's leaves us with your crocodile tears about people losing plans, when conservatives didn't care about people without plans in the first place. The amazing thing is that after all the attempts to cancel the ACA we haven't seen one real attempt to come up with a plan to get coverage to any sizable amount of people without any. The lack of alternative clearly shows that all your crying and whining is merely not letting a crisis go to waste and not about healthcare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I was referring to his knowledge of what is happening and why. You can deflect and act like you give a flying F*** about the people when we could have had single payer and none of this but you object to that too. So that's leaves us with your crocodile tears about people losing plans, when conservatives didn't care about people without plans in the first place. The amazing thing is that after all the attempts to cancel the ACA we haven't seen one real attempt to come up with a plan to get coverage to any sizable amount of people without any. The lack of alternative clearly shows that all your crying and whining is merely not letting a crisis go to waste and not about healthcare. Since I don't recall ever suggesting that I don't care, who is deflecting here, me or you? It would have been better if Obama had acknowledged the negative consequences of the law BEFORE it was passed. I look at other democrats like Mary Landrieu and Kay Hagan (my Senator) who voted AGAINST bills allowing people to keep their insurance (in spite of Obamacare) in 2010, and are now introducing legislation to do exactly that. Hypocrites, both of them. I'll wait to shed my tears on the day I'm forced to make the business decision that my company can no longer afford to pay for my employees' (and familys') health insurance. It may be less than a year away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Where it's really going to hurt is when the employer mandate comes back up and the cancellations begin again around September/October next year. The cancellations and/or upset will be greatly magnified. They'll conveniently find a way to push that off a couple months until just after the 2014 elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 They'll conveniently find a way to push that off a couple months until just after the 2014 elections. It probably wouldn't matter I suppose, so long as the unions get their waiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Clinton to BHO: Keep your promise. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/12/clinton-to-obama-keep-obamacare-promise-let-americans-keep-what-got/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 For the millions who have lost their plans (through cancellation), there's no way to get them back, legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 For the millions who have lost their plans (through cancellation), there's no way to get them back, legally. That is my understanding as well. The train wreck is already in motion and cant be stopped at this point. Pretty bad when a popular ex Pres comes out and scolds BHO though. By the way, the goverment is counting those who just put a plan in their shopping carts as part of the 50K that signed up. Wonder how many actually payed????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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