Jim Crow 2.0???

[the_spaniard]

Very well then, if you insist I'll be glad to.

<snip> Way too much saying very little

 

For a post as long as yours and as full of arrogance and direct personal insults to me, you would have thought your argument would be stronger.

 

They aren't nearly as stupid as you so yes they would make arrangements to procure military hardware and capability of their own before just going off the handle and leaving the United States.

And are they picking up a 12-pack of C130’s at Costco? Where would these military assets come from? How would they get into TX? Are they going to ask the US government or do you think that buying a large amount of military hardware from (someone?) and moving it into TX isn’t going to draw any attention? C’mon man.

 

In addition you seem to conveniently forget that the population of Texas is filled with a great many people who are military veterans themselves.

No I didnt, nearly 1.6 million of them, many of whom would be ready to take up arms I’m sure. Problem is, only 38% are under 54 years of age, with only 17% being under 34. 15% of the total vets in TX cannot walk, with 40% suffering from other disabilities. Hardly a strong, combat-ready force, but there are a lot of numbers there. What percentage would fight (or even stay in TX) during a secession is unknown.

 

But guess what, they would almost surely leave the buildings in place making them ready made for a Texas army to occupy.

Please tell me why the US Government would do anything to make life easier on TX (particularly when it came to military power) after they illegally secede? Particularly if they try to grab resident military hardware?

 

Now, as for the highly trained Mexican army that has been trained by the US Military let me just say . I have seen plenty of these soldiers that were trained at the School of the Americas and WHINSEC at Fort Benning. They are by no means highly trained soldiers.

Highly trained soldiers is one thing, infrastructure and military hardware is another. Texas would have none. While you may scoff at the MX armed forces, it does not change the fact they have an army, navy, and air force. And while it may seem laughable compared to the US Military, we are only talking about TX without any US military support of hardware, which means a new TX army is initially all infantry. Even a meager list of just Army assets like this is bad news for any new army TX would raise.

 

Suddenly they're going to get along (cartels and MX Armed Forces) so they can invade Texas?

Never said that, did I? The cartels would never help, and they wouldn't have to. After MX grabs TX, are you going to tell me that it wouldn't be a prime piece of real-estate the cartel would want? MX border towns say differently.

 

Finally you have failed to take into account that in all likely hood if Texas did secede from the US they would not do so alone.

No, I did but my scenario deals with TX seceding because they are the biggest whiners about it. Don’t change the scenario to fit your weak argument.

 

This is my absolute favorite part of your argument:

The Texans can easily move it and hide it (assets of the 36^th Infantry Division) from the government so they can keep them for their own army

Wow. Just Wow. That’s a lot of equipment (and aircraft) to squirrel away in barns. Oh so you disable a lot of it? Gotcha. The US military wouldn’t confiscate or just destroy it then right? They would never guess it could be repaired and deployed later? If you parked one of your stolen Fort Hood tanks in a civilian barn no one would notice, right? Take a picture? Call a friend about it? Send it to the local news? Facebook? How about folks within the TX (formerly US military) that don't support the secession? Are they gonna be quiet about all this?

 

There are a thousand ways that things can get done and happen that you're little invasion theory doesn't even take into account.

This is true, and a ton that cant get done. You know like staging a secession and moving a ton of military assets without the Feds knowing. Impossible in an age where everyone has a cell phone, with a camera, connected to the internet. How about all the TX residents that are not sympathetic to secession? What do you do with them and all those pesky cell-phones?

 

Ridiculous. These Red Dawn scenarios always fall apart when you look at pesky facts.

 

Apologies to the OP for the ridiculous thread hijack.

Edited January 22, 2014 by the_spaniard

[akirby]

Stand in line one time for 4 hours to get an id that can be used for almost anything? Seems ridiculously easy to me. She could have taken the bus, or a cab.

 

Besides - what 18 yr old doesn't have a driver's license nowadays?

[the_spaniard]

As far as voter suppression, I don't have a problem with voter ID's per-se. Voter fraud is a red-herring, but logic tells me that it makes sense that you should have to have some form of ID to vote.

The problem is when people combine other legislation with it to discriminate against a certain group of people. Even then though, it seems at the times the public recognizes it for the nonsense it is an acts accordingly. Check out what happened in Boone, NC. Why this didn't make national headlines everywhere I really don't know.

 

In addition to voter ID, Republican legislators there:
-Cut the number of early voting days by a week, even though 56 percent of North Carolinians voted early in 2012
-The bill eliminates same-day voter registration during the early voting period, even though 96,000 people used it during the general election in 2012 and states that have adopted the convenient reform have the highest voter turnout in the country. African-Americans are 23 percent of registered voters in the state, but made up 28 percent of early voters in 2012, 33 percent of those who used same-day registration
-The GOP-controlled Watauga County Board of Elections in Boone, North Carolina, voted along party lines to close an early voting and general election polling place at Appalachian State University. Instead, the county limited early voting to one site in Boone and created the state’s third-largest voting precinct, with 9,300 voters at a precinct designed for 1,500, with only thirty-five parking places. It’s inaccessible by public transportation and over a mile from campus along a 45 mph road with no sidewalk.

 

Now THAT is voter suppression.

 

As a result, democrats swept races for mayor and three city council seats on Tuesday. Voter turnout increased compared to municipal elections in 2009.

 

There is a certain line you can push, and every now and then someone pole-vaults over it. Then (hopefully) the people will step in and correct matters.

Edited January 22, 2014 by the_spaniard

[akirby]

I think the voting period should be extended. Here in GA we have at least 1 if not 2 weeks of voting available before the actual election day.

 

I also think voter ids should be made available at no charge and some type of mobile service available to those who can't or don't want to leave their homes. That totally eliminates the disenfranchisement objection.

 

How many elections have been decided by a few votes or less? Not requiring ID simply makes it POSSIBLE for a group to potentially steal an election result and that to me is simply unacceptable especially when it's so easy to prevent.

 

You can't say that it's not a problem just because not a lot of people have been caught. There is no way to know how many have been successful and not caught.

 

Very few baseball players were caught using steroids while they were playing. Very few cyclists were caught blood doping while they were riding. How did those work out?

[the_spaniard]

I also think voter ids should be made available at no charge and some type of mobile service available to those who can't or don't want to leave their homes. That totally eliminates the disenfranchisement objection.

 

 

This is what I support as well. If it requires ID, that's fine just go above and beyond to ensure it is accessible to every citizen.

[BlackHorse]

 

Ridiculous. These Red Dawn scenarios always fall apart when you look at pesky facts.

 

 

Mexico invading Texas is a Red Dawn scenario? lol What a dumb ass comment. Your assumption that Mexico could invade Texas and easily take it over is a scenario that falls apart when you look at the pesky facts. That's the only fact here and that's because, as I stated, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Stick to video game combat.

Edited January 22, 2014 by BlackHorse

[the_spaniard]

 

Mexico invading Texas is a Red Dawn scenario? lol What a dumb ass comment. You're assumption that Mexico could invade Texas and easily take it over is a scenario that falls apart when you look at the pesky facts. That's the only fact here and that's because, as I stated, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Stick to video game combat.

 

That's your response? You really showed me.

 

Once again, personal insults and no substance. I've illustrated my points effectively, and that is all I have to say on the topic.

 

Back-on-topic for the OP.

Edited January 22, 2014 by the_spaniard

[BlackHorse]

 

That's your response? You really showed me.

 

Once again, personal insults and no substance. I've illustrated my points effectively, and that is all I have to say on the topic.

 

Back-on-topic for the OP.

 

I actually did show you. Just because you haven't got the brain power to understand that your little Mexico invasion theory is complete nonsense formulated by someone who doesn't have a clue isn't my problem. Maybe nobody ever bothered to tell you that you aren't very smart and so you mistakenly believe you're a genius or something. But the reality is, you just aren't very smart and your little Mexico theory nonsense is laughably stupid. Sorry if you have a difficult time accepting that but there it is.

[NickF1011]

Can we move past the personal attacks?

 

Thanks.

[BlackHorse]

Can we move past the personal attacks?

 

Thanks.

 

Its not a personal attack. It is what it is. Not trying to be mean about it.

[NickF1011]

 

Its not a personal attack. It is what it is. Not trying to be mean about it.

 

Saying someone lacks brain power is an ad hominem attack by any other name. Let it go.

[BlackHorse]

 

Saying someone lacks brain power is an ad hominem attack by any other name. Let it go.

 

I got no problem letting it go but if it comes up again I got not problem saying the whole theory is silly nonsense. That okay?

Edited January 23, 2014 by BlackHorse

[Langston Hughes]

 

More anecdotal evidence. You're fine with it when it supports your opposition on Voter ID, but damn it when it opposes Obamacare. Interesting.

 

Nick,

I've linked to studies that this anecdotal back up in previous posts. Here' I'll link to one again.

 

http://brennan.3cdn.net/773c569439b50452e0_kzm6bo5l6.pdf

[akirby]

 

Nick,

I've linked to studies that this anecdotal back up in previous posts. Here' I'll link to one again.

 

http://brennan.3cdn.net/773c569439b50452e0_kzm6bo5l6.pdf

 

Translation - we're helpless victims. How do these people go to the doctor when they're sick? How do they get food?

 

One call to a local church would yield dozens of volunteers to help these people travel to get their ID.

[TomServo92]

NAACP requires PHOTO ID to march in protest against requiring voter PHOTO ID

 

You just can't make this stuff up!

 

 

 

“However, the NC NAACP requires their protesters to maintain valid photo identification on their person throughout the march. The idea that Chairman William Barber and his followers find it more important to carry their photo identification with them when marching than when electing the President of the United States is reprehensible.”

[cal50]

NAACP requires PHOTO ID to march in protest against requiring voter PHOTO ID

 

You just can't make this stuff up!

 

 

 

 

Un F'ing real.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Barber also drew criticism in January for labeling South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott, the first African American to serve the state as a senator since 1881, a “ventriloquist’s dummy.”

“A ventriloquist can always find a good dummy,” Barber said, according to South Carolina’s The State. “[T]he extreme right wing down [in South Carolina] finds a black guy to be senator, and claims he’s the first black senator since Reconstruction and then he goes to Washington, D.C., and articulates the agenda of the Tea Party.”

They want tolerance and compassion for others.

 

Lead by example, then.

[Langston Hughes]

 

Translation - we're helpless victims. How do these people go to the doctor when they're sick? How do they get food?

 

One call to a local church would yield dozens of volunteers to help these people travel to get their ID.

 

Getting to a doctor is different than getting to the Sect of State.

[FiredMotorCompany]

 

Getting to a doctor is different than getting to the Sect of State.

Have you ever gone to the "Sect of State" for ANY reason, or did you go to a local office "OF" the Secretary Of State?

 

Emphasis on "local office"......as in..... not that much different than going to the bank, a Doctor's office, a relatives house for Christmas Dinner, or McDonald's for a Big Mac.

 

I'll be concerned that photo I.D. is an impediment to a voters rights when it is shown to be significantly different than daily routine.

[Langston Hughes]

Have you ever gone to the "Sect of State" for ANY reason, or did you go to a local office "OF" the Secretary Of State?

 

Emphasis on "local office"......as in..... not that much different than going to the bank, a Doctor's office, a relatives house for Christmas Dinner, or McDonald's for a Big Mac.

 

I'll be concerned that photo I.D. is an impediment to a voters rights when it is shown to be significantly different than daily routine.

 

Is it okay to use conversational language in here or you going to go off on ad hominem fallacies?

 

i don't know what people say in your area, but someone saying "I'm going to the Secretary of State" is common place here.

 

And the local office is not always that local. Michigan has reduced the number of offices and created more Super-centers, which are often farther a way and with longer lines.

 

But who are we talking about; the elderly who don't run out to McDonald's all the often, and the poor who don't always live near these super-centers.

[All-Or-Nothing]

NAACP requires PHOTO ID to march in protest against requiring voter PHOTO ID

 

You just can't make this stuff up!

 

 

 

 

....and this should pretty much END this thread.

 

Get an ID if you want to vote. Plain and simple.

 

All these idiots crying about needing an ID to vote and why can't it be done without......absolutely have an ID somewhere.

 

How are they driving and banking?

 

This thread and argument has to be one of the top stupidest I have ever seen.

 

 

Honestly I did not read the entire thread. I read half of the first page and jumped here. So unless I hae missed the "real" problem....why in the world would anyone want people voting without IDs. Those are the real fools if that is truly their arguement.

[Langston Hughes]

 

 

 

....and this should pretty much END this thread.

 

Get an ID if you want to vote. Plain and simple.

 

All these idiots crying about needing an ID to vote and why can't it be done without......absolutely have an ID somewhere.

 

How are they driving and banking?

 

This thread and argument has to be one of the top stupidest I have ever seen.

 

 

Honestly I did not read the entire thread. I read half of the first page and jumped here. So unless I hae missed the "real" problem....why in the world would anyone want people voting without IDs. Those are the real fools if that is truly their arguement.

 

I thought we talked about people we weren't driving. You know like the sick, elderly, and people without cars, like the poor riding the bus.

 

 

And the idea of a protest is not to gather just those affected, but those people who are looking out for their neighbors right to vote. If civil rights marches only included those directly affected by the policies then changes would not have happened. it needy those not affected who were trying to help others.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Langston Hughes

[All-Or-Nothing]

 

I thought we talked about people we weren't driving. You know like the sick, elderly, and people without cars, like the poor riding the bus.

 

 

And the idea of a protest is not to gather just those affected, but those people who are looking out for their neighbors right to vote. If civil rights marches only included those directly affected by the policies then changes would not have happened. it needy those not affected who were trying to help others.

 

 

That's a crock and you know it. Riding a bus is no excuse to not have "at a minimum" a state ID card. How are those poor poor bus riders cashing checks from the jobs they got when they showed an ID.

 

Sick, elderly......Meh. Call a church, grandson, neighbor....someone and get a lift to an ID center or whatever that place may be called. They do have 4 whole years between elections (sometimes 2) to get a valid ID.

[Langston Hughes]

 

 

That's a crock and you know it. Riding a bus is no excuse to not have "at a minimum" a state ID card. How are those poor poor bus riders cashing checks from the jobs they got when they showed an ID.

 

Sick, elderly......Meh. Call a church, grandson, neighbor....someone and get a lift to an ID center or whatever that place may be called. They do have 4 whole years between elections (sometimes 2) to get a valid ID.

 

I understand what you are thinking but it's making way too many assumptions about the laws and what happens in life.

 

1. Checks can be cashed with ID's that do not met many voter ID standards, such as University ID cards, or work ID's. Some people are able to do banking based on multiple non photo sources.

 

2. These changes don't occur just after the previous election. Here's a report about the changes just in 2012 http://www.brennancenter.org/publication/voting-law-changes-2012#scribd

[Langston Hughes]

http://www.fairelectionsnetwork.com/blog/true-or-false-you-need-photo-id

 

You must show a photo ID to open a bank account.

False. According to the Comptroller of the Currency Administrator of National Banks, the minimum a bank must obtain to open a new account is:name,date of birth (for an individual),address, and identification number (for U.S. citizens, a taxpayer identification number is defined as the individual's Social Security number or employer identification number).

The bank must then verify the accuracy of the information via a review of documents such as a driver's license or passport. OR it can verify the information by comparing the information you provided with information from a credit-reporting agency or by checking prior bank references. This is also the reason you can sign-up for a checking account online or a credit card without showing an ID. As long as you have a credit report, you can sign-up for an account.

You need a photo ID to cash a check.

False. There are several ways to cash a check if you do not have a photo ID. You could endorse the check and have a trusted friend deposit it for you and give you the cash. Or, if you already have a bank account (that you opened without a photo ID) and an ATM card, you can deposit the check through the ATM yourself. No ID required. Additionally, Money Mart stores will cash checks without requiring an ID.