Powertrain Pimp Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Wizard, Do you have any news on the future of Lima Engine Plant? I saw in a previous thread the Cleveland was possibly going to be closed due to inefficiency, and drowing in red ink. We here at Lima are over 1.3 million under budget, and gaining ground every day. With the new launch of the Duratec 35, and the eventual demise of the 3.0 Vulcan, what do you see for us as far as new work? We are hearing that Dearborn is taking a long hard look at what Lima can do, and that there are several studies being performed. I STRESS that these are just bits and pieces of information that are floating around the aisles of the plant. Any info would be greatly appreciated. :beerchug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMJ Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Wizard, Do you have any news on the future of Lima Engine Plant? I saw in a previous thread the Cleveland was possibly going to be closed due to inefficiency, and drowing in red ink. We here at Lima are over 1.3 million under budget, and gaining ground every day. With the new launch of the Duratec 35, and the eventual demise of the 3.0 Vulcan, what do you see for us as far as new work? We are hearing that Dearborn is taking a long hard look at what Lima can do, and that there are several studies being performed. I STRESS that these are just bits and pieces of information that are floating around the aisles of the plant. Any info would be greatly appreciated. :beerchug: Just remember this if Cleveland closes and Lima gets some of our work we can and will transfer with the engine and we can then bump the lowest seniority out! Lorain came to Avon and did this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
end of time Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Just remember this if Cleveland closes and Lima gets some of our work we can and will transfer with the engine and we can then bump the lowest seniority out! Lorain came to Avon and did this! True, but WHO would want to live in LIMA? Cleveland is a big city with lots to offer. Can't be that bad that youd have to go to lima bean ohio! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_wizard Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Wizard, Do you have any news on the future of Lima Engine Plant? I saw in a previous thread the Cleveland was possibly going to be closed due to inefficiency, and drowing in red ink. We here at Lima are over 1.3 million under budget, and gaining ground every day. With the new launch of the Duratec 35, and the eventual demise of the 3.0 Vulcan, what do you see for us as far as new work? We are hearing that Dearborn is taking a long hard look at what Lima can do, and that there are several studies being performed. I STRESS that these are just bits and pieces of information that are floating around the aisles of the plant. Any info would be greatly appreciated. :beerchug: let's put it this way you are fine ! again Lima is fine but i have seen the new plans and Ohio might take some BIG hits this time !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary112 Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Where do people get their information? The fact is, Cleveland Engine Plant #1 will officially launch the duratec 35 in September. Millions of dollars have been put into our current flex line that currently runs the duratec 30. We will be running as much production as Lima. In the Future, 25 percent of all ford cars will have the Duratec 35 in them. So, rumors about Cleveland are FALSE! If we all work together, we can be the best in the world! Stop the rumors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 let's put it this way you are fine ! again Lima is fine but i have seen the new plans and Ohio might take some BIG hits this time !! Wizard I want to choose my words carefully here. You seem on the one hand to be a compassionate person with some very inside information on company wide plans that you wish to share with the hope of keeping everyone informed and empowered and I appreciate that and do not want to diss you in any way as some others on this forum have done. :blah: Yet on the other hand you seem to very much enjoy being coy and insensitive to people in Cleveland. May I ask why ? You have no problem at all with being very specific about NAP or STP or KTP or Wixom yet when it comes to Cleveland Sir or Maam whichever you are you are repeatedly vague, coy and insensitive, almost gleefully leaving us here in Cleveland twisting in the wind with your innuendo about us taking "BIG HITS" (your words not mine) yet never providing specifics as you do with other plants despite your having seen 'the new plans" (again your words not mine). I mean if you can say things like "NAP you're going to one shift on 11/06/06" what the hell is so difficult about telling us here in Cleveland what you know? My purpose of course is not to analyze or prejudge you or to make you the story here, my purpose like everyone else's on this board is to find out what is really going on. Why must I repeatedly and quite literally pull the information from your keyboard? What is up with that? :shrug: I'm quite aware that tempers are short all around and you have taken some shots here of late but hell not from me. And so Mr Wizard I am going to try again. Trizzle Trazzle Dazzle Bone time for this one to come home. What do you know specifically about Cleveland? I work in Engine Plant 2 and would love to know as you might imagine. Can you at all reach down into your increasingly antagonistic heart and get specific about CLEVELAND or is that to much to ask? What takes "the big hit" ? Casting Plant? Engine Plant 1 ? Engine Plant 2 ? All three? None of the above? Forgive me please if I sound a little on edge but there are oh I don't know roughly 4000 hillbillies here working at these three plants that just might have a slight vested interest in your answer. If you don't have an answer Mr Wizard, then I would ask you to please stop dropping vague and inflamatory innuendo about Cleveland's impending demise. If you do indeed know the specifics, then I'm also quite sure we would all love to hear it. Can you feel our pain Wiz ? We can I assure you. Tell you what. I'll make you a deal here. You tell us here in Cleveland what you know specifically....and I will make sure that Your Detroit Lions beat our Cleveland Browns tonight in the football game. That shouldn't be to hard for me to pull off. :happy feet: Deal? :bandance: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partsisparts Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) [] True, but WHO would want to live in LIMA? Cleveland is a big city with lots to offer. Can't be that bad that youd have to go to lima bean ohio! Cleveland is a big city with lots to offer?? I am from New York and we call Cleveland " The Mistake on the Lake." :shrug: :happy feet: Edited August 18, 2006 by partsisparts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paris Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Wizard I want to choose my words carefully here. You seem on the one hand to be a compassionate person with some very inside information on company wide plans that you wish to share with the hope of keeping everyone informed and empowered and I appreciate that and do not want to diss you in any way as some others on this forum have done. :blah: Yet on the other hand you seem to very much enjoy being coy and insensitive to people in Cleveland. May I ask why ? You have no problem at all with being very specific about NAP or STP or KTP or Wixom yet when it comes to Cleveland Sir or Maam whichever you are you are repeatedly vague, coy and insensitive, almost gleefully leaving us here in Cleveland twisting in the wind with your innuendo about us taking "BIG HITS" (your words not mine) yet never providing specifics as you do with other plants despite your having seen 'the new plans" (again your words not mine). I mean if you can say things like "NAP you're going to one shift on 11/06/06" what the hell is so difficult about telling us here in Cleveland what you know? My purpose of course is not to analyze or prejudge you or to make you the story here, my purpose like everyone else's on this board is to find out what is really going on. Why must I repeatedly and quite literally pull the information from your keyboard? What is up with that? :shrug: I'm quite aware that tempers are short all around and you have taken some shots here of late but hell not from me. And so Mr Wizard I am going to try again. Trizzle Trazzle Dazzle Bone time for this one to come home. What do you know specifically about Cleveland? I work in Engine Plant 2 and would love to know as you might imagine. Can you at all reach down into your increasingly antagonistic heart and get specific about CLEVELAND or is that to much to ask? What takes "the big hit" ? Casting Plant? Engine Plant 1 ? Engine Plant 2 ? All three? None of the above? Forgive me please if I sound a little on edge but there are oh I don't know roughly 4000 hillbillies here working at these three plants that just might have a slight vested interest in your answer. If you don't have an answer Mr Wizard, then I would ask you to please stop dropping vague and inflamatory innuendo about Cleveland's impending demise. If you do indeed know the specifics, then I'm also quite sure we would all love to hear it. Can you feel our pain Wiz ? We can I assure you. Tell you what. I'll make you a deal here. You tell us here in Cleveland what you know specifically....and I will make sure that Your Detroit Lions beat our Cleveland Browns tonight in the football game. That shouldn't be to hard for me to pull off. :happy feet: Deal? :bandance: This wizard clown has got some of you EXACTLY where he wants you. Begging for information from a guy who has to go to the Detroit Free Press to get it, so that he can repeat it on this forum and look like a hero. You are asking yourselves " why, Paris, does this wizard guy bother you so much?", Right? He bothers me because he feeds on peoples desperation to have answers to questions that may change the direction of their futures. When anyone tries to give information that I KNOW they dont have access to, it annoys me. When I see people being sucked in to this game being played, I feel the responsibility to try to warn them. Be warned! Do not make plans for YOUR FUTURE based on this person's advice or "heads up" that he may give. Another way to look at it would be; if he really did have the access to the confidential information he claims to have, he would be in violation of SEC rules for divulging it on an open forum such as this. Better yet, he could use this information to make portfolio transactions to his benefit. But that would make him an insider of which I know he is NOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassisgrunt Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 This wizard clown has got some of you EXACTLY where he wants you. Begging for information from a guy who has to go to the Detroit Free Press to get it, so that he can repeat it on this forum and look like a hero. You are asking yourselves " why, Paris, does this wizard guy bother you so much?", Right? He bothers me because he feeds on peoples desperation to have answers to questions that may change the direction of their futures. When anyone tries to give information that I KNOW they dont have access to, it annoys me. When I see people being sucked in to this game being played, I feel the responsibility to try to warn them. Be warned! Do not make plans for YOUR FUTURE based on this person's advice or "heads up" that he may give. Another way to look at it would be; if he really did have the access to the confidential information he claims to have, he would be in violation of SEC rules for divulging it on an open forum such as this. Better yet, he could use this information to make portfolio transactions to his benefit. But that would make him an insider of which I know he is NOT. i don't think anybody is going to sell their house tomorrow because the wizard said bad news about their plant. but we get NO INFO at all from ford, we get NO INFO at all from the UAW, and it is our livlihood on the line. the wizard has a proven track record of being pretty accurate with his info. my questio is this. why does it bother you so much paris, that he shares this info with us?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrod Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 What PARIS says is true. Whether he/she is right about who wizard is, I do not know. Wizard has shown to be somewhat of a prophet in the past, but as Greygoose said, why be soooo specific about certain plants and sooo vague as far as Ohio. Also I might add, Wizard never has said( to my knowledge) that specifically Cleveland looked bad. Wizard just said Ohio and not Lima. Granted Cleveland has three plants, but Ohio still has Walton Hills, Ohio assembly, Maumee stamping, Batavia Transmission, Sharonville Transmission, and I'm not sure how many parts plants, if they are even still included or not. I also work in CEP 2 and I would not go as far to say that our site is safe. Greygoose: You work in plant 2, so you know how we have been running since shutdown. The bullshit that is going on here in our plant right now is hurting us more and more everyday. CEP 1 will be booming by the end of the year, I would think they should be fine, for a while. CEP 2 has a dying engine that desparately needs that power improvement package, and people who realize they are being paid to do a job and to do it well. As for CCP, people have been saying that it is going to close since before it was finished being built. However, I believe it is only being kept open because truck blocks being cast in Cleveland, and not by Brazil or an outside company, is still very important to this company. The $90 million MACT project is being done merely to keep the EPA happy. By 2011/12 they will be unhappy again, and then what? People who post on these boards seem to think they know how to fix this company, which some ideas are obvious no-brainers that management should know. However, if we do have all the answers why are we posting here and not making the big bucks making the big decisions. Bottom line, nothing is final, nobody is safe, and none of us can control whats happens. We can only do our jobs to the best of our ability and have whatever faith we have left in this company and its leaders to get us out of this mess. We don't have much else of a choice. Also one more rant, I find it hard to put so much faith or worship as some of you do, into someone who seems to know so much, but cannot determine in what context to use a simple word like their or there. Let the JROD bashing begin!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedope Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 It's a long way to the ballpark, but most Ford workers are ready to step up to the plate and take a swing at keeping 'their' plants open. The problem is, the only thing that we can do is agree to production cuts, job cuts, classification cuts, and ect., etc., etc, that are mandated by someone that isn't going to be harmed by them. The fact is that a company can't cut their way to prosperity. They cut because it is the easiest thing for them to do. When they get to the hard stuff, Ford tends to drag their feet. Ford asks the UAW for help in turning things around, and that's understandable, the trouble is that the members of the UAW have to carry the biggest burdon of the process. We lose jobs! That hits us where it hurts. If you believe that your national union cares about anything but your dues, where anyone of us is concerned, you are fooling yourself. Your local may be fighting to keep or gain work in your plant, but they are at the mercy of the national and the agreements of parity already set with Ford by the national UAW. The national isn't talking to us because they don't want to have a mutany on their hands. Ford isn't talking to us because they don't really have to. The list of plant closings have been in the hands of the national UAW for months. Why haven't they came to the locals and given them the bottom line? Why do they allow the locals to wallow in rumor? Why do they allow Ford to do all the talking? Why doesn't the UAW speak up in advance of a disaster, instead of letting Ford screw up, and then forcing the membership to take the blunt of the fall? Do you see the pattern here? I for one expect the company to pull these big blunders, all they can see is the dollar signs. They are elitest for the most part, they don't know what it is like to worry about money. They protect each other. My question is if the UAW and Ford are partners, and the UAW is suppose to have our best interests at heart, then why are we now having to fight for every locals survival? Could it be that national UAW has lost touch with the membership and forgotten that they are supposed to protect us? Have they become elitest also? I wouldn't be so angry with the company, they just don't know how to run the business. I would be more angry at the national UAW for allowing things to get so bad in the first place. We see where the company is screwing up all the time on the local level, why don't they see it on the national level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
end of time Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Where do people get their information? The fact is, Cleveland Engine Plant #1 will officially launch the duratec 35 in September. Millions of dollars have been put into our current flex line that currently runs the duratec 30. We will be running as much production as Lima. In the Future, 25 percent of all ford cars will have the Duratec 35 in them. So, rumors about Cleveland are FALSE! If we all work together, we can be the best in the world! Stop the rumors. You must be a young person. If you do some research, in the past late 70's, early 80's ford invested many millions of dollars into plants and turned around and closed them even before they began production of the new models. Bottom line no sales no jobs. just read the paper. I'am not for losing jobs but i will say save your money and do not borrow, because no plant is untouchable. Oh and by the way it was you silly people in ohio that helped put bush back in office. when the thiland free trade hits their may not be a ford plant in ohio to stay open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 What PARIS says is true. Whether he/she is right about who wizard is, I do not know. Wizard has shown to be somewhat of a prophet in the past, but as Greygoose said, why be soooo specific about certain plants and sooo vague as far as Ohio. Also I might add, Wizard never has said( to my knowledge) that specifically Cleveland looked bad. Wizard just said Ohio and not Lima. Granted Cleveland has three plants, but Ohio still has Walton Hills, Ohio assembly, Maumee stamping, Batavia Transmission, Sharonville Transmission, and I'm not sure how many parts plants, if they are even still included or not. I also work in CEP 2 and I would not go as far to say that our site is safe. Greygoose: You work in plant 2, so you know how we have been running since shutdown. The bullshit that is going on here in our plant right now is hurting us more and more everyday. CEP 1 will be booming by the end of the year, I would think they should be fine, for a while. CEP 2 has a dying engine that desparately needs that power improvement package, and people who realize they are being paid to do a job and to do it well. As for CCP, people have been saying that it is going to close since before it was finished being built. However, I believe it is only being kept open because truck blocks being cast in Cleveland, and not by Brazil or an outside company, is still very important to this company. The $90 million MACT project is being done merely to keep the EPA happy. By 2011/12 they will be unhappy again, and then what? People who post on these boards seem to think they know how to fix this company, which some ideas are obvious no-brainers that management should know. However, if we do have all the answers why are we posting here and not making the big bucks making the big decisions. Bottom line, nothing is final, nobody is safe, and none of us can control whats happens. We can only do our jobs to the best of our ability and have whatever faith we have left in this company and its leaders to get us out of this mess. We don't have much else of a choice. Also one more rant, I find it hard to put so much faith or worship as some of you do, into someone who seems to know so much, but cannot determine in what context to use a simple word like their or there. Let the JROD bashing begin!!! Hey jrod I have no intention of bashing you at all brother. First in defense of Wizard , he did indeed specifically mention Cleveland, and also he further stated that 'The Big Hit" would not be in assembly or stamping, so that pretty much leaves us at the Cleveland site. :titanic: I just wanted to set the record straight that the Wiz did indeed refer to our site , though by default I admit, but it's quite clear he/she was talking about us. Thus my frustration at his vagueness. :shrug: As for your point about how shitty Plant 2 has been running since shutdown, it's true, and I've read posts here about KCAP being on 8 hours due to what they referred to as an "engine problem" ( uh, yeah....there aren't any ) and have been told in meetings that we're dangerously close to shuting down Mexico as well thus giving our Mexican "friends" an unexpected siesta. :happy feet: I think that because we all feel so vulnerable about our futures we tend to blame ourselves for our current production problems , but the fact is we've been through many a rebalance and reduction before and never come anywhere close to it being this bad. As I recall in fact they were quite literally seamless. :bandance: So if everything is the same except the management...then I think it's fair to look there for fault and I certainly hope the company does. We in Cleveland have lost our way in an insufferable pile of paperwork,SQDME boards, FTPM,QPS,CAP Sheets, TIMMS tickets, as McCluen said in the 60's, " The medium is the message" The enigine can have bad cranks, bad cams, bad pistons and be laying in twelve pieces on the pallet but if the paperwork is filled out, then damn it to hell that's a good build. Conversely it can run like a charm but if some meaningless piece of toilet paper is not filled out we'll spend a fortune putting it on hold and tearing it down. It has quite literally reached the point of being surreal. :shrug: The management now in Plant 2 is more interested in looking good than in being good. What can I say it's just my opinion. Yes, there are plenty of deadbeats that never work, the same ones year after year and I'm sure you know them by name jrod and yes something should certainly be done about them. But 5 lazy and useless workers per shift should not in and of itself bring a major powertrain operation like us to a standstill. So again I would say to Mark Fields, look towards our current management. This workforce has never let you down before so look to your current managers. And lastly jrod I spoke to our building chairman this afternoon personally, he told me the BOD has approved our new power program, they also approved the 35 to PLant 1, Casting I don't know anything about other than he said it wasn't going anywhere. Take it for what it's worth I believe him. He did say that because of the production cuts Ford announced today, we might see 2 or so down weeks due to a cut in Escape production and nothing more. :happy feet: At any rate jrod it was nice " meeting " you so to speak. If you ever want to talk stop and see me, I work afternoon shift as the Coordinator on the ever shrinking and increasingly outsourced J 1 area :bandance: till then..... 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the_wizard Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Wizard I want to choose my words carefully here. You seem on the one hand to be a compassionate person with some very inside information on company wide plans that you wish to share with the hope of keeping everyone informed and empowered and I appreciate that and do not want to diss you in any way as some others on this forum have done. :blah: Yet on the other hand you seem to very much enjoy being coy and insensitive to people in Cleveland. May I ask why ? You have no problem at all with being very specific about NAP or STP or KTP or Wixom yet when it comes to Cleveland Sir or Maam whichever you are you are repeatedly vague, coy and insensitive, almost gleefully leaving us here in Cleveland twisting in the wind with your innuendo about us taking "BIG HITS" (your words not mine) yet never providing specifics as you do with other plants despite your having seen 'the new plans" (again your words not mine). I mean if you can say things like "NAP you're going to one shift on 11/06/06" what the hell is so difficult about telling us here in Cleveland what you know? My purpose of course is not to analyze or prejudge you or to make you the story here, my purpose like everyone else's on this board is to find out what is really going on. Why must I repeatedly and quite literally pull the information from your keyboard? What is up with that? :shrug: I'm quite aware that tempers are short all around and you have taken some shots here of late but hell not from me. And so Mr Wizard I am going to try again. Trizzle Trazzle Dazzle Bone time for this one to come home. What do you know specifically about Cleveland? I work in Engine Plant 2 and would love to know as you might imagine. Can you at all reach down into your increasingly antagonistic heart and get specific about CLEVELAND or is that to much to ask? What takes "the big hit" ? Casting Plant? Engine Plant 1 ? Engine Plant 2 ? All three? None of the above? Forgive me please if I sound a little on edge but there are oh I don't know roughly 4000 hillbillies here working at these three plants that just might have a slight vested interest in your answer. If you don't have an answer Mr Wizard, then I would ask you to please stop dropping vague and inflamatory innuendo about Cleveland's impending demise. If you do indeed know the specifics, then I'm also quite sure we would all love to hear it. Can you feel our pain Wiz ? We can I assure you. Tell you what. I'll make you a deal here. You tell us here in Cleveland what you know specifically....and I will make sure that Your Detroit Lions beat our Cleveland Browns tonight in the football game. That shouldn't be to hard for me to pull off. :happy feet: Deal? :bandance: I would like time to verify this but yes. Plant 2 and Casting will CLOSE 2012CY!! under the new way forward plan pending approval. So will Maumee stamping i'm sorry, I really don't try to hurt you i just try and give you the truth here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpmaster Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 This wizard clown has got some of you EXACTLY where he wants you. Begging for information from a guy who has to go to the Detroit Free Press to get it, so that he can repeat it on this forum and look like a hero. You are asking yourselves " why, Paris, does this wizard guy bother you so much?", Right? He bothers me because he feeds on peoples desperation to have answers to questions that may change the direction of their futures. When anyone tries to give information that I KNOW they dont have access to, it annoys me. When I see people being sucked in to this game being played, I feel the responsibility to try to warn them. Be warned! Do not make plans for YOUR FUTURE based on this person's advice or "heads up" that he may give. Another way to look at it would be; if he really did have the access to the confidential information he claims to have, he would be in violation of SEC rules for divulging it on an open forum such as this. Better yet, he could use this information to make portfolio transactions to his benefit. But that would make him an insider of which I know he is NOT. :blah: :blah: :blah: paris, may I offer a helpful suggestion? Get the fuck off this board; you're torturing yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 (edited) I would like time to verify this but yes. Plant 2 and Casting will CLOSE 2012CY!! under the new way forward plan pending approval. So will Maumee stamping i'm sorry, I really don't try to hurt you i just try and give you the truth here. Mr. Wizard, I do appreciate your efforts, you have been pretty damn accurate so far, and if you really have "eyes on the inside", then you put yourself at somewhat of a risk. As to Cleveland plant 2 and casting closing by 2012, perhaps you may be confusing this with Windsor Engine? Windsor is widely known around here as plant 2 (the annex was built on the torn down plant 1). Since the plant is losing its 3rd shift in october, and we already know that the foundry next door is officially closing next year, this seems like a better fit to some info you may have come across. Obviously this would be terrible news for me being a Windsor worker, but I also know what it must be like for the Cleveland guys, with new investment being put in the Foundry, then hearing it's may get chopped, really makes you think we are all floating on a rudderless ship. If Cleveland Casting really is going to close, Ford won't have any North American Foundry will it? No Windsor, No Cleveland, no iron blocks? Ford tried to close Windsor in the early 80's, and outsource, quality was so bad, the Foundry re-opened. I am sure this won't happen again, but look out ford buyers in 2013. What engine plants will remain in 2012 great Wizard. Looks like Essex is getting shuttered, Cleveland Plant 2, Windsor Engine is being cut down, Dearborn Engine is already tiny. Who will be going strong? Who's left? Romeo, Lima, Cleveland1, Hermosillo (or whatever the mexican facility is), and Windsor Engine in a smaller capacity (no Annex, no 3 shifts). Who am I missing, and will this be enough? Mr Wizard, open your copy of the Way Forward grail, and go to the Engine Assembly chapter, let us see the future... and of course very much thanks for all the info so far. Edited August 19, 2006 by canuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 []Cleveland is a big city with lots to offer?? I am from New York and we call Cleveland " The Mistake on the Lake." :shrug: :happy feet: Ahh yes, the very original "mistake on the lake" crack. I really hope you're not speaking of NYC when you so proudly say "I'm from New York". I've been to that smelly city of concrete and found it to be the most polluted and filthy places that I've ever been. How anybody can live in a city where trash and people litter the sidewalks day and night is beyond me. I guess they were just raised that way. I'll continue living in a very clean, safe and family oriented western suburb of the "Mistake".... Thank you very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal50 Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 The best part of Cleveland is the Cleveland clinic and it's top rated hospitals. Outside of that it's a shit hole. Like Detroit but a lite version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 The best part of Cleveland is the Cleveland clinic and it's top rated hospitals.Outside of that it's a shit hole. Like Detroit but a lite version. Here's an idea.... MOVE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 I would like time to verify this but yes. Plant 2 and Casting will CLOSE 2012CY!! under the new way forward plan pending approval. So will Maumee stamping i'm sorry, I really don't try to hurt you i just try and give you the truth here. Thanks Wizard for the specifics. Now that's something I can buy and work with. I also can't dispute it that's for sure. Your apology isn't needed as I understand that you are sometimes overwhelmed with info requests on this board so no offense taken on this end it's simply as I stated earlier that tempers are short all around and my frustrations were simply a byproduct of that. In retrospect I guess that's what I get for letting the Browns beat the Lion's last night . :happy feet: Thanks again Wiz and please do by all means keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal50 Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Here's an idea.... MOVE! I do not have to. I do not live in Cleveland! :kissass: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMJ Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I would like time to verify this but yes. Plant 2 and Casting will CLOSE 2012CY!! under the new way forward plan pending approval. So will Maumee stamping i'm sorry, I really don't try to hurt you i just try and give you the truth here. If CCP closes so will Windsor Engine and Romeo Engine!!! Ford will cast these blocks in Brazil and will have a Mexican Engine Plant finish the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky21 Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Don't listen to anything csmj has to say. He doesnt know shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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