fordmantpw Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The regs are the same in that both diesel and gas must meet the same emissions limits for any given cert. These same limits, or, lack of limits, were put in place because DI gasoline has been shown, now that we actually have technology to show particulate emissions (and sizes) at a far more granular level than before, to puke out a lot more fine particulate - the kind that can really get in your lungs and bloodstream - than traditional non-DI gasoline or even diesel. Knowing this, before they wrote the regs, and thus, having been able to write the regs to either require DI gasoline to either meet reasonable (lets say reasonable is no worse than diesel) limits or not be certified, would have been the proper way of going about things...especially in light of their hard-on for writing regs that penalized light duty diesel whether it was warranted or not. Instead what they did, knowingly and purposely, was give DI gasoline a huge pass. Now think about this, very carefully: If a group who has in the past gone batshit on regs to the extent that they've needlessly doomed the entirety of the US public in not being able to have the choice to buy vehicles that get them far better mpg than their gasoline counterparts, all under the auspices of "we need to save you emissions that we think are bad for you", even if the science was not settled on that, then turns around and completely abandons that logic, in the face of actual scientific data, what could someone conclude from that purposeful decision? Some would say, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! (because it fits our agenda/bias/FUD)...me I'd rather question how decisions like that are made, not just swallow the status quo like a good lemming... Oh, I see, a conspiracy theory. Gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The internet: It's not where the baseless because was born, but it has flourished here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 DI gas normally only produce particulates at cold start befirore converter lights off, Diesels tend to pump out particulates during normal operation..... See the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Yes, diesel is filthy and dirty and should be held to a higher standard. Oh, btw, Ford sells more diesel pickups in American than anyone else. No big deal, now let's just let this thread die. Thx, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Yes, diesel is filthy and dirty and should be held to a higher standard. What? Diesel is held to the same standard as gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The regulations are identical, but diesel is being unfairly held to a higher standard. Even though the regulations are identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I believe that what everyone is saying is that: The emissions regs for gasoline and diesel engines are identical for each CERT tier. The regs, as they currently stand, are easier for gasoline engines to meet each tier than for a comparable diesel engine. Because its easier for a gasoline engine to meet each tier, as they are currently worded, the regs must favor gasoline engines.And, to the point that the manufacturers are completely ignoring the issue of particulate emissions from GDI engines, note that many are moving to integrated exhaust headers that transfer heat better from the engine block to the catalytic converter, and that hold the CAT closer to the engine in general. The faster the converter lights off, the lower the average emissions from each engine is. Given that, for over 90% of each cycle of operation for each gasoline engine, they are in a phase of combustion that is naturally lower in particulate emissions; why do you want to saddle the end buyer with yet another piece of emissions gear that will need servicing and add cost, and yet will spend the vast majority of its time doing nothing useful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Yes, diesel is filthy and dirty and should be held to a higher standard. Oh, btw, Ford sells more diesel pickups in American than anyone else. No big deal, now let's just let this thread die. Thx, No, diesels create partilces during normal operation, lots of them while DI Gas particles are mostly formed during warm up.. Too many people want to walk past that concept and equate the lack of a particle filter as proof positive the EPA is biased. For the sake of a $70 particle filter on DI gas engines , the issue is dead. What is so hard about that? The bigger issue for Diesel is Tier 2 Bin 2 in a couple of years time... Edited February 25, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Because its easier for a gasoline engine to meet each tier, as they are currently worded, the regs must favor gasoline engines. True, in one sense of the word 'favor'. However, we have one individual who has consistently asserted that the regulators have been playing favorites--which is a very different premise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 The regs are the same in that both diesel and gas must meet the same emissions limits for any given cert. These same limits, or, lack of limits, were put in place because DI gasoline has been shown, now that we actually have technology to show particulate emissions (and sizes) at a far more granular level than before, to puke out a lot more fine particulate - the kind that can really get in your lungs and bloodstream - than traditional non-DI gasoline or even diesel. Knowing this, before they wrote the regs, and thus, having been able to write the regs to either require DI gasoline to either meet reasonable (lets say reasonable is no worse than diesel) limits or not be certified, would have been the proper way of going about things...especially in light of their hard-on for writing regs that penalized light duty diesel whether it was warranted or not. Instead what they did, knowingly and purposely, was give DI gasoline a huge pass. Now think about this, very carefully: If a group who has in the past gone batshit on regs to the extent that they've needlessly doomed the entirety of the US public in not being able to have the choice to buy vehicles that get them far better mpg than their gasoline counterparts, all under the auspices of "we need to save you emissions that we think are bad for you", even if the science was not settled on that, then turns around and completely abandons that logic, in the face of actual scientific data, what could someone conclude from that purposeful decision? Some would say, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! (because it fits our agenda/bias/FUD)...me I'd rather question how decisions like that are made, not just swallow the status quo like a good lemming... ? huge pass ?????....question youself Chucky...ever wonder why the ONLY pasenger cars with Disels engines happen to be German?...theres your huge pass........HUGE pass..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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