"Ford tops GM in U.S. factory jobs" and a Question

[theoldwizard]

Dearborn company's UAW work force has trailed rival's since at least '30s

 

 

Does any one know what the utilization of Cuautitlán and Hermosillo and if there any plans to add production of any US vehicles ?

[akirby]

Hermosillo is at capacity I think. Not sure about Cuautitlan.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Hermosillo is at capacity, that's why they started building Fusions at FRAP.

 

Cuautitlan is not at capacity and there is some speculation of moving some Transit Connect production down there

[ds91776]

Cuautitlan would also make a lot of sense as a place to build a next-gen EcoSport-good-lord-I-hope-they-change-the-name-when-they-bring-it-here.

[Biker16]

Cuautitlan would also make a lot of sense as a place to build a next-gen EcoSport-good-lord-I-hope-they-change-the-name-when-they-bring-it-here.

How about bronco?

[jpd80]

Since gas prices have fallen, Fiesta sales have collapsed as buyers head into larger vehicles.

So whatever move Ford is contemplating now has the huge variable of future gas prices.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Since gas prices have fallen, Fiesta sales have collapsed as buyers head into larger vehicles.

So whatever move Ford is contemplating now has the huge variable of future gas prices.

It actually severely angers me at how shortsighted American society can be. Watch, expedition/navigator (and other gigantic SUV) sales will explode this month due to the shortsighted nature of people. What approximately 0% of those people realize is that gas prices WILL climb again and these are the same people that will be bitching and moaning about how it costs them $200 every week to fill up their tanks.

[jpd80]

It actually severely angers me at how shortsighted American society can be. Watch, expedition/navigator (and other gigantic SUV) sales will explode this month due to the shortsighted nature of people. What approximately 0% of those people realize is that gas prices WILL climb again and these are the same people that will be bitching and moaning about how it costs them $200 every week to fill up their tanks.

Exactly.

At present, Ford will be expected to move as much metal as possible to fill that need

and then suddenly "find" all those fuel efficient vehicles again the moment gas prices lift.

[Biker16]

Since gas prices have fallen, Fiesta sales have collapsed as buyers head into larger vehicles.

So whatever move Ford is contemplating now has the huge variable of future gas prices.

have they?

[jpd80]

have they?

Which part of my post are you asking after?

- Don't know of any move at Cuatitlan, I'm simply saying that there's another variable to consider when reviewing plans for the future.

- Fiesta sales have fallen and inventory was above 20,000 vehicles in January

[F250]

It actually severely angers me at how shortsighted American society can be. Watch, expedition/navigator (and other gigantic SUV) sales will explode this month due to the shortsighted nature of people. What approximately 0% of those people realize is that gas prices WILL climb again and these are the same people that will be bitching and moaning about how it costs them $200 every week to fill up their tanks.

 

I'm sure Ford is not complaining. They make a hell of a lot more profit on an Expedition than a Fiesta.

[Biker16]

Which part of my post are you asking after?

- Don't know of any move at Cuatitlan, I'm simply saying that there's another variable to consider when reviewing plans for the future.

- Fiesta sales have fallen and inventory was above 20,000 vehicles in January

Fiesta sales were down 17% last month, but focus sales were up 53% due to the incentives on the last of the 2014s. which have had more of an effect on low Fiesta sales that gas prices.

 

my point is don't jump to conclusions over one month of sales.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

I'm sure Ford is not complaining. They make a hell of a lot more profit on an Expedition than a Fiesta.

Bring on the profit sharing check!

[fuzzymoomoo]

Fiesta sales were down 17% last month, but focus sales were up 53% due to the incentives on the last of the 2014s. which have had more of an effect on low Fiesta sales that gas prices.

 

my point is don't jump to conclusions over one month of sales.

Is there any way to really prove that beyond speculation?

 

Also they are nowhere near clearing out the last of the '14 Focus inventory sitting on dealer lots.

[akirby]

Is there any way to really prove anything you say beyond speculation?

 

FTFY and the answer is no.

[jpd80]

Fiesta sales were down 17% last month, but focus sales were up 53% due to the incentives on the last of the 2014s. which have had more of an effect on low Fiesta sales that gas prices.

 

my point is don't jump to conclusions over one month of sales.

I think last year's January weather may have played a part in Focus sales dropping from 16,161 to 12,003

before recovering to 18,478 last month.

 

Over the whole of last year, Fiesta sales remained down 11.1% compared to 2013 while Focus was down much less 6.4%.

 

In all of that I do conceed that Focus outsells Fiesta by around 4 to 1 so a change or improvement in Focus is more valuable

than Fiesta. I'm just wondering wjhat they will do about the 20,000+ Fiesta inventory.

Edited February 22, 2015 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

I'm just wondering wjhat they will do about the 20,000+ Fiesta inventory.

Let the fire sale begin!

[fuzzymoomoo]

It's also a matter of cost and value. Average joe customer can walk into a dealer and they're advertising a Fiesta, Focus and Fusion for $150 a month. Which of those three is least likely to get chosen?

 

Yes, the Fiesta is a good car (I hear the ST is an absolute blast to drive), but up against the Fusion at the same price, it doesn't stand a chance. Same with Focus.

[Biker16]

I think last year's January weather may have played a part in Focus sales dropping from 16,161 to 12,003

before recovering to 18,478 last month.

 

Over the whole of last year, Fiesta sales remained down 11.1% compared to 2013 while Focus was down much less 6.4%.

 

In all of that I do conceed that Focus outsells Fiesta by around 4 to 1 so a change or improvement in Focus is more valuable

than Fiesta. I'm just wondering wjhat they will do about the 20,000+ Fiesta inventory.

The lesson earned from the escort and the focus is that you really don't abandon the B class, and expect buyers to move up into a c class car without compromising the profitability of your c class product. You need that entry level car to protect you or compact car, without it you see your entry level of you compact fall to cover that segment and the ASP of that model collapse. The fiesta is more profitable than the focus <$17k every focus sold for less should be a fiesta. Ford can survive with less than 40k fiesta sales in the US, if it continues you have to look at importing from Asia or Europe To protect the Focus. Companies cannot make knee jerk decisions based upon a temporary drop in oil prices. You have to remain flexible and keep to a sustainable product plan, keep in mind it takes 18months to add product and even longer to add a product that isn't designed for a specific market.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Biker16

[jpd80]

The lesson earned from the escort and the focus is that you really don't abandon the B class, and expect buyers to move up into a c class car without compromising the profitability of your c class product. You need that entry level car to protect you or compact car, without it you see your entry level of you compact fall to cover that segment and the ASP of that model collapse.

I think that is a fallacious argument, the B car Fiesta was brought to America on the strength of B car sales potential,

not as a back door guard for the compact market. Ford has proven that buyers want higher trim levels in vehicles

regardless of whether its a Focus or Fiesta.

 

The fiesta is more profitable than the focus <$17k every focus sold for less should be a fiesta.

The entry level Focus retails for $16,800 so I think your argument is redundant.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Fiesta more profitable than Focus? That's laughable.

[Biker16]

I think that is a fallacious argument, the B car Fiesta was brought to America on the strength of B car sales potential,

not as a back door guard for the compact market. Ford has proven that buyers want higher trim levels in vehicles

regardless of whether its a Focus or Fiesta.

I spoke with the Focus account Exec in 2007 during the launch of the 2008 focus about this very subject. without a B car to coover the Entry level buyer you would have to push the next cheapest product down market to cover that segment. when the 2000 focus was introduced in 1999, it was sold alongside the Escort, the Escort in the early and mid 1990s was sold with the the Festiva and the Aspire. Similar to the 2008 focus the 1998 escort carried over platforms, and was decontented to cover a lower price point after the cancellation of the Aspire in 1997.

 

 

The idea that each product in your lineup behaves independently of each other is false, and that the premium pricing of the fiesta doesn't support the pricing of the focus and the focus does nothing to support the premium pricing of the fusion.

 

 

The entry level Focus retails for $16,800 so I think your argument is redundant.

 

then make it 18,000!

 

is it a coincidence that the increase in the prices of compact cars happened after the reintroduction of the B-car like the fiesta to the US market? having that B-car on the lot allows buyer to crossshop a Loaded fiesta for 18k or a striped focus for the same price. selling a Fiesta Titainum with an additional $4000 worth of options is more profitable than selling a Focus S with no options. the Fiesta

 

Fiesta more profitable than Focus? That's laughable.

 

Not it isn't the fiesta is less expensive to build than the more complex Focus, thus selling Focus for $14k or even $16k would be LESS profitable than selling a fiesta at $14k or $16K.

 

unless you belive a 27,000 focus titanium is less profitable than a 27,000 fusion SE?

[jpd80]

Not it isn't the fiesta is less expensive to build than the more complex Focus, thus selling Focus for $14k or even $16k would be LESS profitable than selling a fiesta at $14k or $16K.

unless you belive a 27,000 focus titanium is less profitable than a 27,000 fusion SE?

And then again what is the product mix on Fiesta, last I heard it was skewed closer to $20K ATPs than the lower end.

Just looking through Ford's line up, they seemed to have eliminated most vehicles that were below $20K starting price,

all except Focus and Fiesta for obvious reasons.

 

And yeah, I take on board what was conveyed to you by Ford exec, maybe he was talking pre "Super Segment" that

marketing types bring out and use with rotational incentives. Not meaning to discount Fiesta here, just thinking like

yourself that if the model mix is for higher ATPS and the build numbers are lower than optimal, then or could either

import from elsewhere or add another vehcle to Cautitlan production, I like the idea of Transit Connect.....

 

It's just that Fiesta sales at 4,000-5,000/mth are not that significant to warrant concern either way,

maybe simply a vehicle to have in B segment until US buyers become more accustomed to it.

A few years back, subcompacts were a rarity but now nearly every one has one or two of them...

 

I'm also curious about plans to combine B & C vehicles on one platform, that would be perfect for Europe

with serious flow on value to other regions like Asia / China and the Americas.

 

 

I spoke with the Focus account Exec in 2007 during the launch of the 2008 focus about this very subject. without a B car to coover the Entry level buyer you would have to push the next cheapest product down market to cover that segment. when the 2000 focus was introduced in 1999, it was sold alongside the Escort, the Escort in the early and mid 1990s was sold with the the Festiva and the Aspire. Similar to the 2008 focus the 1998 escort carried over platforms, and was decontented to cover a lower price point after the cancellation of the Aspire in 1997.

I'm wondering how much of that 2007-2008 thinking has changed since introduction of global models

Fiesta shocking with buyers wanting higher trim levels / more complete cars and Ford following through

with eliminating what was once "stripper" vehicles and simply accepting lower production/sales than say the

28,000/mth for Escort/Focus in the late 1990s/early 2000s.

Edited February 23, 2015 by jpd80

[theoldwizard]

 

 

Since gas prices have fallen, Fiesta sales have collapsed as buyers head into larger vehicles.

So whatever move Ford is contemplating now has the huge variable of future gas prices.

It actually severely angers me at how shortsighted American society can be. Watch, expedition/navigator (and other gigantic SUV) sales will explode this month due to the shortsighted nature of people. What approximately 0% of those people realize is that gas prices WILL climb again and these are the same people that will be bitching and moaning about how it costs them $200 every week to fill up their tanks.

 

Any auto company who makes significant production changes based on the cost of gasoline for the past 6-9 months is a fool ! No one believes that crude will stay in the %50/barrel range "long term".

 

I was thinking that if Flat Rock picked up enough of the Focus/MkZ volume from Hermosillo, that might be a good place for Transit Connect. It might even save money with less shipping cost and the eliminating the cost of removing the glass and seats to covert them to cargo vans at the port.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Any auto company who makes significant production changes based on the cost of gasoline for the past 6-9 months is a fool ! No one believes that crude will stay in the %50/barrel range "long term".

 

I was thinking that if Flat Rock picked up enough of the Focus/MkZ volume from Hermosillo, that might be a good place for Transit Connect. It might even save money with less shipping cost and the eliminating the cost of removing the glass and seats to covert them to cargo vans at the port.

When did I suggest ford change their production patterns? I was talking about the consumer, not the producer. Besides, any smart company will tailor production to demand anyway. Simple supply and demand.

 

Do you even know what's produced at Flat Rock and Hermosillo? Because the only thing you got right was Hermosillo making the MKZ. There's no way Flat Rock takes enough production of the FUSION away from Mexico to build transit connect there, they need too much Mustang production to allow that. If TC production is brought to North America, it's going to Cuactitlian.