Ford Police Interceptor at the 100,000 (build) mark...

[Sevensecondsuv]

55% between two models (albeit related to each other) isn't even close to 75% with one model. Hence my statement about winners.

 

Note that I never said it was a bad idea for Ford. As JPD pointed out, Ford came out money ahead. But let's not deceive ourselves about the fact that the Crown Vic owned that market in way that no future car ever will.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Sevensecondsuv

[twintornados]

55% between two models (albeit related to each other) isn't even close to 75% with one model. Hence my statement about winners.

 

Note that I never said it was a bad idea for Ford. As JPD pointed out, Ford came out money ahead. But let's not deceive ourselves about the fact that the Crown Vic owned that market in way that no future car ever will.

CVPI only owned the market because it was cheap....that is all that matters in fleet sales. Ford reclaiming and owning over 1/2 the market with a product that they are making a profit on proves they are winning....as a Ford shareholder, I am pleased.

[Fgts]

CVPI only owned the market because it was cheap....that is all that matters in fleet sales. Ford reclaiming and owning over 1/2 the market with a product that they are making a profit on proves they are winning....as a Ford shareholder, I am pleased.

 

The 06-current Impala ppv retails cheaper then the CVPI . The CVs edge was durability and the rwd did help (the Charger is rwd but not as strong as the CV). PDs wouldn't look at Tahoe ppv if price was the only concern.

 

A "jack-of-all" trades ppv would be a rwd ppv with plenty of room, powerful engine available , reasonable price, durable and (most important) a retail star.

[rscalzo]

The 06-current Impala ppv retails cheaper then the CVPI .

 

 

That car never made any dent in the market. At best is made a mediocre administrative car.

[Bob Rosadini]

 

That car never made any dent in the market. At best is made a mediocre administrative car.

I think the point being made is that the CV was not the cheapest alternative out there. As for the 55% market share enjoyed by Ford today, there is a lot more competition. The early Chargers were a disaster from a durability/operating cost viewpoint I believe. They HAD to have made improvements. Also the RWD Caprice is a new competitor-although you have to wonder for how long as GM is supposedly killing the Holden correct? And for those still hung up on BOF and RWD, regardless of cost, the Tahoe is attractive to those buyers.

 

Key question I have pertains to operating costs. The CV was bullet proof. Now that the Taurus an Explorer PI's are getting some mileage under their belts, how are they doing? Anyone have any facts? I have a 2010 SHO and at 64,000 miles it has been trouble free-but far cry from a PI that is driven 24/7 by various drivers.

[jpd80]

Never say never.

While competitors appear to have more of the market, there's still a lot of CVPI change out still to be accomplished.

A lot of that has to do with PDs buying as many CVPIs as possible prior to closure of Saint Thomas.

 

I would expect that as those Crown Victorias age, Ford will pick up even more sales as PDs become even more

accustomed to the added benefits of the PI Ute. Competitors will still get some of the market but I have a hunch

that if Ford ever went after the Larger PI Ute market in a big way with EB V6 Expedition, Tahoe would struggle.

Edited May 4, 2015 by jpd80

[rscalzo]

The CV was bullet proof. - They had their issues like any vehicle. FAR from bulletproof and a dog on the road.

 

Now that the Taurus an Explorer PI's are getting some mileage under their belts, how are they doing? Anyone have any facts? - nothing that big in the way of issues but they don't have the mileage the older CV had at this point. In maybe four years or so then the true issues will surface. The AWD is being well received.

[twintornados]

The 06-current Impala ppv retails cheaper then the CVPI . The CVs edge was durability and the rwd did help (the Charger is rwd but not as strong as the CV). PDs wouldn't look at Tahoe ppv if price was the only concern.

 

A "jack-of-all" trades ppv would be a rwd awd ppv with plenty of room, powerful engine available , reasonable price, durable and (most important) a retail star.

 

FIFY Sounds like Fords' got it covered....

[jpd80]

RWD based sedans are now a small fraction of the police market, if Ford has 55% then Dodge would be lucky to have 25%

and Tahoe making up the remaining 20%...maybe, I don't know for sure.

[Sevensecondsuv]

 

FIFY Sounds like Fords' got it covered....

AWD is fine if it's built on a rwd layout. One of the things that made the CV so legendary was it's serviceability, which was a direct result of its rwd platform. Transmission and drive axle service are far easier on a rwd. It was also little things like easier spark plug changes on the north-south engine versus pulling the intake plenum to get to the rear bank of plugs on the east-west V6 in the Taurus.

 

Another example is that the CV used shocks instead of struts. Simply unbolt them and bolt new ones on. On the Taurus you have separate ball joints and compress coil springs. Wheel bearings would be another example. The CV uses serviceable taper roller bearings at the front which can be serviced for $20 in parts and 15 minutes. The Taurus uses a more expensive sealed hub that takes a lot more effort to replace.

 

Just some of the reasons the CV was a legend.

[Fgts]

 

FIFY Sounds like Fords' got it covered....

Not in southern states, most highway interceptors are rwd . VA state police do use the Taurus but only 3.7 na and on suburban/uban freeways, Impala for detective cars only also .

[twintornados]

AWD is fine if it's built on a rwd layout. One of the things that made the CV so legendary was it's serviceability, which was a direct result of its rwd platform. Transmission and drive axle service are far easier on a rwd. It was also little things like easier spark plug changes on the north-south engine versus pulling the intake plenum to get to the rear bank of plugs on the east-west V6 in the Taurus.

 

Another example is that the CV used shocks instead of struts. Simply unbolt them and bolt new ones on. On the Taurus you have separate ball joints and compress coil springs. Wheel bearings would be another example. The CV uses serviceable taper roller bearings at the front which can be serviced for $20 in parts and 15 minutes. The Taurus uses a more expensive sealed hub that takes a lot more effort to replace.

 

Just some of the reasons the CV was a legend.

BRZZZTTTT....wrong.......Panther Chassis went to a sealed hub design and stopped using "serviceable taper roller bearings" in the front starting with the 1998 model year....Also, since the the strut attaches to the top of the wheel knuckle, the lower ball joint does not need to be separated. Two (cam) bolts and it is free of the assembly.

 

The only thing legendary about CV is the continued pining (by the Panther Mafia) for a chassis design that should have been discontinued (at least) 5 years before it actually was.

 

Add on: However, I will stipulate and agree that changing the rear bank of spark plugs on Taurus is a pain in the ass....did a spark plug change on a 3.0L 2006 Fusion and thank god it only needs to be done at the 100K mark interval.

Edited May 4, 2015 by twintornados

[twintornados]

Not in southern states, most highway interceptors are rwd . VA state police do use the Taurus but only 3.7 na and on suburban/uban freeways, Impala for detective cars only also .

You might want to go to the Ford PI web page....there are dozens of photos of PI sedans and PI utilities being used by dozens of agencies across the southern states. What, you think pursuit only happens on dry asphalt? I am glad that other American companies are doing a decent business in police car sales, but the fact is simple. Ford dominates in the field with two fwd based vehicles that are also available in awd as needed.

[Sevensecondsuv]

BRZZZTTTT....wrong.......Panther Chassis went to a sealed hub design and stopped using "serviceable taper roller bearings" in the front starting with the 1998 model year....Also, since the the strut attaches to the top of the wheel knuckle, the lower ball joint does not need to be separated. Two (cam) bolts and it is free of the assembly.

 

The only thing legendary about CV is the continued pining (by the Panther Mafia) for a chassis design that should have been discontinued (at least) 5 years before it actually was.

 

Add on: However, I will stipulate and agree that changing the rear bank of spark plugs on Taurus is a pain in the ass....did a spark plug change on a 3.0L 2006 Fusion and thank god it only needs to be done at the 100K mark interval.

Huh. Had a 99 and an 03 and I could swear they had regular roller bearings like a 2wd truck. Unfortunately they are no longer around or I'd go look. Edited May 4, 2015 by Sevensecondsuv

[twintornados]

Huh. Had a 99 and an 03 and I could swear they had regular roller bearings like a 2wd truck. Unfortunately they are no longer around or I'd go look.

 

I believe it was changed when the front suspension went to a full sub-assembly bolted to the front portion of the frame. The "Panther chassis front suspension sub-assembly to F100/150" conversion is a popular mod for the hot-rod truck crowd.

[Sevensecondsuv]

As far as I know, the only real suspension change was in 03. I know the frame rails got further apart because the 5.4 swap is easier on a 03+.

 

I still have a PI 2 valve 5.4 sitting in my garage waiting for a panther to put it in. I was going to do a leaf spring swap in the rear too in the interest of extreme durability. Basically an F150 with a sedan body. I might still get around to it someday.

[twintornados]

I was going to do a leaf spring swap in the rear too in the interest of extreme durability. .

:hysterical:

 

oh....you were serious?? Maybe you should track down a flat head V8 and a torque tube drive train too...

Edited May 4, 2015 by twintornados

[Fgts]

You might want to go to the Ford PI web page....there are dozens of photos of PI sedans and PI utilities being used by dozens of agencies across the southern states. What, you think pursuit only happens on dry asphalt? I am glad that other American companies are doing a decent business in police car sales, but the fact is simple. Ford dominates in the field with two fwd based vehicles that are also available in awd as needed.

I never said no southern department use PIs ,I've said highway interceptors down south are majority rwd . A few northern states AFAIK use rwd for highway work (Md,DE,NJ) otherwise it would be the PI and mostly in 3.7/AWDs up north .

[Sevensecondsuv]

:hysterical:

 

oh....you were serious?? Maybe you should track down a flat head V8 and a torque tube drive train too...

What's wrong with leaf springs? If there's one weak spot on a Crown Vic, it's the link arms in the rear suspension. They just don't take a beating like a set of leafs.

 

The thought of a 9.75" rear out of a 1st gen Expedition or equivalent F150 was tempting me as well. I just couldn't think of a way to get the front bolt pattern to match without resorting to adaptors or custom parts.

 

I eventually ended up buying an Excursion for family hauling. The Crown Vic project is still brewing, along with several other great ideas, in the back if my head. Some times you just have to say "no" to the good idea fairy though!

Edited May 4, 2015 by Sevensecondsuv

[bzcat]

CVPI had a lot of the police car market share for a long time because it had no competition... the only serious enough alternate was Chevy Tahoe and that vehicle was not very well suited for urban police patrol use.

 

CVPI market share started to erode significantly when Dodge Charge Police Package came out and Ford only had 1/3 of the police car market the last two years CVPI was offered.

 

Even if Ford kept the CVPI in production, the market was changing and police agencies would have moved on without Ford regardless what some panther aficionado thinks.

[jpd80]

It was a credit to the CVPI that Ford was able to continue selling so many right up to the end of production.

That enabled Ford to saturate PDs with more than enough vehicles to keep the competition at bay until

the new Police Interceptors established themselves.

 

Near the end, Ford was saying that PDs were asking for something different and that fact became

more apparent as Ford revealed developments of Taurus and Explorer in conjunction with strong

input from Law Enforcement representatives.

 

We're now at plus three years and counting, the CVPI is not coming back and while the PI sedan

has had mixed sales success, the PI Ute is starting to gain real traction with PDs as having room

for officers as wellas more Utility without sacrificing driving dynamics.

 

This is Ford throwing the old play book and reinventing the game while competitors stay with their

existing vehicles. The fact that Ford has kept more than half of the police vehicle market shows that

Ford made the right decision to offer both the PI and PI Ute and let PDs make up their own minds.,