No Buyouts at NAP

[3GENUAW]

BITTER NOTHING.... He has no CLUE! :shrug: :tease:

[F150MANBDV]

I HOPE ALL YOU ASSHOLES DONT GET A DAMN THING! YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME, A $100,000 OR $140,000 TO LEAVE? EVERYONE OF YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU ARE GETTING! GET READY AND WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD BABIES!

 

Sir in the "real world" a contract is a negotiated and legally binding agreement between two parties whether

those parties are individuals, corporation, or unions.

The key point of that contract is that Ford agreed that they would not close any production plants during the

agreed life of aforementioned contract ending in the fall of 2007.

We, being the rank and file, the organized labor, the heart and soul of this once proud American industrial

icon have upheld our portion of the contract by producing these vehicles, our job was NOT to design them nor was it to market them, it was specifically...BUILD THEM....and we have....all they could sell !

Due to circumstances, some self inflicted, some beyond their control FOMOCO realizes that they are

now financially unable to uphold their part of the contract wherein they promised not to close any plants

during the life of the contract.

In order for them to escape this portion they are offering a 1 time "buyout" of the contract for a

specified number of their UAW labor force.

We "desearve" EXACTLY what was negotiated in good faith by both parties and now what is being

negotiated between the UAW and FOMOCO in order to to be released from the confines of the current

contract on this 1 key issue.

It is called a negotiated and legally binding labor contract.

1 that signed and agreed upon by both parties.

It is legal, it is binding, and in deference to your opinion it is as "real" as it gets !

CUT THAT CHECK !!! :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet:

[unionj]

AMEN F150MAN.

 

I HOPE ALL YOU ASSHOLES DONT GET A DAMN THING! YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME, A $100,000 OR $140,000 TO LEAVE? EVERYONE OF YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU ARE GETTING! GET READY AND WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD BABIES!

You signed up just to be an asshole, how feeble is that. Joined at 10:10pm and posted at 10:16pm.

Edited August 30, 2006 by unionj

[FactoryWorker]

What makes me an idiot ?? just because I have a different opinion on how FORD is going to move forward ??

 

 

You use the word opinion ..not the word know or fact..hhmmmm. just a little observation..and if the Man knew you where talking out of school ...He Would 9 Iron your @ss..Get my drift!!

[Hebitchmanslapper]

Yeah, a man of latex and leather maybe. I think that you are wrong and that you are an idiot, but if you turn out to be correct I will apologize. If we do get paid, we should all spend a little bit of the money and visit the glass house and he-b$tch man-slap Mrs. Swami.

I'm the only one around here licensed in the art of HeBitchmanslapeology!!!!! :slap:

[NorfolkBuilt]

I play golf with the "Man"

 

 

You mean you hold his putter ?

 

 

p.s.-I bet you are " a man of the cloth". Cuz you need one to wipe clean after the "Man" makes a hole in one in your mouth biotch.

Edited August 30, 2006 by NorfolkBuilt

[Bigcountry]

Is that Hindu for reach around?

 

Reach around?????????? Sounds gay!!!!!!!!!!

[Bigcountry]

If you ARE an employee in the glass house, it is no surprise why this company in going down the tube.

 

 

Every morning up at the Glass House, Bill, Mark and all of the other higher ups get together in the conference room and over dose on "DUMBASS PILLS" and see who can make the most FUCKED UP decisions!

[Lwoodbluz]

Why would FORD MO CO need to offer buyout packages at NAP when they have effectively cleared the books of you by idling the plant ?? NAP will run a skeleton 1 shift crew with many down weeks up until next Sept. UAW Contract negotiations. The buyouts will be a distant memory if they can hold on until then. It has been determined that it will be cheaper to pay the GEN/SUB until Sept. At NAP everyone by now realizes that their doomed fate is sealed, do you think for 1 minute that FORD is going to buyout 2400 employees that will inevitably sign up for a buyout ??? Please folks, don't get you're hopes up. Use common sense.

 

"Swami"

 

 

My wife does taxes for a living and she's seen a few Ford Employees with the buyouts, The Buyouts are taxed as a Bonus, between 35%-40%, The 100,000.00 buyouts are being offered over 2 years, meaning 50,000 for two years, after tax about 34,000.00, at the end of the year you will be 1099'd on the buyout money, have to add that to your income and depending on your situation, it might put you in a higher tax bracket causing a whole new set of problems. If the Union accepts the buyout offers and allows FORD to offer them, they will be offered to EVERY employee at EVERY plant across the board, You have to understand the buyouts are actually cheaper than the sub pay and benefits they pay while you are laid off, after a buyout you are on your own, insurance will be gone, unless you choose to keep cobra and if you do that there goes your bonus, cobra is around $500-800 monthly at most companies. I'm sure you are just upset that they might not offer you anything but they will, look at GM they have already had 35,000 retire due to buyouts, Ford is going to follow suit, Ford has been stalling on this not because of the amount of money BUT because once they are offered to every employee and the employee signs up for as to pay them, FORD is affraid so many people will take the buyouts they won't have enough people left to work at the plants they intend to keep open. Everyone needs to realize this could be worse at least we are getting unemployment, sub pay and the offer of buyouts. I've only worked for Ford 7 years, before that I worked for a compnay 17 years and they went bankrupt and were gone nothing, no severance nothing, so I was 35 and had to start over, now it looks like at 42 I have to start over again. The problem with FORD is due to several areas, but the biggest problem and the reason for the 4th quarter production cuts is due to the ECONOMY, our Government is spread to thin with the war in Irag ect and this is allowing the US Economy to go down hill.

["Swami"]

The fact remains, no company wide buyouts, only if and when FORD gives the ok. They spelled it out for NAP when they told them they would be open till 08. Why do you suppose they chose that date ?? Do they need NAP's production now ?? Layoffs and down weeks till contract. Then no GEN, no need for buyouts. What a ruse by Billy Baroo and the "Terminator" Mr. Fields.

[F150MANBDV]

My wife does taxes for a living and she's seen a few Ford Employees with the buyouts, The Buyouts are taxed as a Bonus, between 35%-40%, The 100,000.00 buyouts are being offered over 2 years, meaning 50,000 for two years, after tax about 34,000.00, at the end of the year you will be 1099'd on the buyout money, have to add that to your income and depending on your situation, it might put you in a higher tax bracket causing a whole new set of problems. If the Union accepts the buyout offers and allows FORD to offer them, they will be offered to EVERY employee at EVERY plant across the board, You have to understand the buyouts are actually cheaper than the sub pay and benefits they pay while you are laid off, after a buyout you are on your own, insurance will be gone, unless you choose to keep cobra and if you do that there goes your bonus, cobra is around $500-800 monthly at most companies. I'm sure you are just upset that they might not offer you anything but they will, look at GM they have already had 35,000 retire due to buyouts, Ford is going to follow suit, Ford has been stalling on this not because of the amount of money BUT because once they are offered to every employee and the employee signs up for as to pay them, FORD is affraid so many people will take the buyouts they won't have enough people left to work at the plants they intend to keep open. Everyone needs to realize this could be worse at least we are getting unemployment, sub pay and the offer of buyouts. I've only worked for Ford 7 years, before that I worked for a compnay 17 years and they went bankrupt and were gone nothing, no severance nothing, so I was 35 and had to start over, now it looks like at 42 I have to start over again. The problem with FORD is due to several areas, but the biggest problem and the reason for the 4th quarter production cuts is due to the ECONOMY, our Government is spread to thin with the war in Irag ect and this is allowing the US Economy to go down hill.

 

Others that have already posted on getting their buyouts earlier in the year said NOTHING about the $100k being spread out over 2 years !

What has changed ?

We would all appreciate conformation on this from others that have ALREADY received their buyout checks in their hands...please only those that have ALREADY received their buyouts....are they being spread out over 2 years...YES OR NO ?

This makes a difference....no BS....no rumors please....just the facts....people and their families are depending on factual information on which to base some very important decisions. JUST THE FACTS !

[pistonfan]

My wife does taxes for a living and she's seen a few Ford Employees with the buyouts, The Buyouts are taxed as a Bonus, between 35%-40%, The 100,000.00 buyouts are being offered over 2 years, meaning 50,000 for two years, after tax about 34,000.00, at the end of the year you will be 1099'd on the buyout money, have to add that to your income and depending on your situation, it might put you in a higher tax bracket causing a whole new set of problems. If the Union accepts the buyout offers and allows FORD to offer them, they will be offered to EVERY employee at EVERY plant across the board, You have to understand the buyouts are actually cheaper than the sub pay and benefits they pay while you are laid off, after a buyout you are on your own, insurance will be gone, unless you choose to keep cobra and if you do that there goes your bonus, cobra is around $500-800 monthly at most companies. I'm sure you are just upset that they might not offer you anything but they will, look at GM they have already had 35,000 retire due to buyouts, Ford is going to follow suit, Ford has been stalling on this not because of the amount of money BUT because once they are offered to every employee and the employee signs up for as to pay them, FORD is affraid so many people will take the buyouts they won't have enough people left to work at the plants they intend to keep open. Everyone needs to realize this could be worse at least we are getting unemployment, sub pay and the offer of buyouts. I've only worked for Ford 7 years, before that I worked for a compnay 17 years and they went bankrupt and were gone nothing, no severance nothing, so I was 35 and had to start over, now it looks like at 42 I have to start over again. The problem with FORD is due to several areas, but the biggest problem and the reason for the 4th quarter production cuts is due to the ECONOMY, our Government is spread to thin with the war in Irag ect and this is allowing the US Economy to go down hill.

That is the biggest bunch of horse shit i have ever read.......the federal govt. has not one friggin thing to do with Ford's ability to sell cars and trucks. That problem lies with Ford and Ford alone. No matter what you liberal suck-asses want to believe....Mr Bush and the rest of the govt. have no impact whatsoever! on the amount of market share Ford or any other company has. Our share has dropped due to poor market planning and thats about it in a nutshell. The war in Iraq has no bearing on auto sales. If we were not at war you are saying our sales and profits would be just dandy? While i am certainly a proud UAW member....i have never been one to buy into the union blame game of just pointing the finger at the federal govt......especially if its a Republican in office, for all the ills of our industry. If you really believe that all this is happening just because of the govt......then you, most of you anyway [and ALOT posters on this board] are indeed just as stupid and pathetic as the public thinks you are. Do us all a favor and take the education buyout and study Econ 101.

[NAPpy]

Good post Pistonfan...

 

I was at the gas pump the other day and noticed that the Toyota Camry next to me paid the exact same price per gallon of gas that I did in my F150. If this is true, how is it then that Toyota and Honda are so profitable and are growing market share? Gee...... maybe it's not the gas prices, the economy or the war.... MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THEY DESIGNED, PRODUCED, AND IMPLEMENTED A BETTER PRODUCT THAN WE DID!!!!!

 

Oh yeah, my dog died last week. That was President Bush's fault too.

[F150MANBDV]

Good post Pistonfan...

 

I was at the gas pump the other day and noticed that the Toyota Camry next to me paid the exact same price per gallon of gas that I did in my F150. If this is true, how is it then that Toyota and Honda are so profitable and are growing market share? Gee...... maybe it's not the gas prices, the economy or the war.... MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THEY DESIGNED, PRODUCED, AND IMPLEMENTED A BETTER PRODUCT THAN WE DID!!!!!

 

Oh yeah, my dog died last week. That was President Bush's fault too.

 

No...that was Dick Cheney and Haliburton....they are conducting secret tests

on the next generation of biological weapons targeting Americas pets as subjects.

Dick Cheney gassed your puppy....next will be all the poor and old people !!!

Its TRUE....I read it on MoveOn.org !! :blah: :blah: :blah:

[addeled]

That is the biggest bunch of horse shit i have ever read.......the federal govt. has not one friggin thing to do with Ford's ability to sell cars and trucks. That problem lies with Ford and Ford alone. No matter what you liberal suck-asses want to believe....Mr Bush and the rest of the govt. have no impact whatsoever! on the amount of market share Ford or any other company has. Our share has dropped due to poor market planning and thats about it in a nutshell. The war in Iraq has no bearing on auto sales. If we were not at war you are saying our sales and profits would be just dandy? While i am certainly a proud UAW member....i have never been one to buy into the union blame game of just pointing the finger at the federal govt......especially if its a Republican in office, for all the ills of our industry. If you really believe that all this is happening just because of the govt......then you, most of you anyway [and ALOT posters on this board]are indeed just as stupid and pathetic as the public thinks you are. Do us all a favor and take the education buyout and study Econ 101.

 

Can I get an AMEN......

 

You got two here. AMEN AMEN, Union says vote for the liberals so.... the sheep just follow along and make no effort to educate themselves in reality.

 

What has the democratic party done for the union in the past 20 years. NADA, but you got NAFTA, you want it, you got it, go union. Liberals have an idealistic vision of the world, it's all fantasy, the world is not an idealistic place. I prefer to be a realist.

 

It's been said many times and still holds true. BUILD IT THEY WILL COME, it really is that simple.

 

It's a vast right wing conspiracy, the republican party has paid off those that hold key positions in Ford's design division. They want them to produce nothing appealing for the American consumer to get excited about. Gotta watch dem right wingers, there out to getch ya BOO!!!!

[daddydave1970]

My wife does taxes for a living and she's seen a few Ford Employees with the buyouts, The Buyouts are taxed as a Bonus, between 35%-40%, The 100,000.00 buyouts are being offered over 2 years, meaning 50,000 for two years, after tax about 34,000.00, at the end of the year you will be 1099'd on the buyout money, have to add that to your income and depending on your situation, it might put you in a higher tax bracket causing a whole new set of problems. If the Union accepts the buyout offers and allows FORD to offer them, they will be offered to EVERY employee at EVERY plant across the board, You have to understand the buyouts are actually cheaper than the sub pay and benefits they pay while you are laid off, after a buyout you are on your own, insurance will be gone, unless you choose to keep cobra and if you do that there goes your bonus, cobra is around $500-800 monthly at most companies. I'm sure you are just upset that they might not offer you anything but they will, look at GM they have already had 35,000 retire due to buyouts, Ford is going to follow suit, Ford has been stalling on this not because of the amount of money BUT because once they are offered to every employee and the employee signs up for as to pay them, FORD is affraid so many people will take the buyouts they won't have enough people left to work at the plants they intend to keep open. Everyone needs to realize this could be worse at least we are getting unemployment, sub pay and the offer of buyouts. I've only worked for Ford 7 years, before that I worked for a compnay 17 years and they went bankrupt and were gone nothing, no severance nothing, so I was 35 and had to start over, now it looks like at 42 I have to start over again. The problem with FORD is due to several areas, but the biggest problem and the reason for the 4th quarter production cuts is due to the ECONOMY, our Government is spread to thin with the war in Irag ect and this is allowing the US Economy to go down hill.

 

I have never been one to chime in on someone's rant, but you, sir are misinformed. Let me point out a few things to you.

 

A. The buyout is NOT over a two year period, it is given in one lump sum.

 

B. There is no 1099, it is all on your REGULAR W-2( if you make 45,000 on the line and 100,000 on the buyout, this equals 145,000.

 

C. I happen to go to a tax professional every year(not a tax service) and if you claim the right amount of deductions, have a mortgage, tax writeoffs, etc., you WILL get more of the buyout money back in the form of taxes.

 

D. It is easy to target the government for a company's shortfalls, just like it is easy to drop your trousers and take a leak in the street. Ford and the UAW are realizing the dire straits this company is in, and they are working together(for a change) on turning this company to profitability again. Should we start pointing fingers? NO! We should all try to get this company back to the top.

[pistonfan]

Sure was nice to see some intelligence on this site. Nappy.....f150manbdv.....addeled and davekc.....good posts. You make sense and .....as far as i can tell....you don't buy into the blame game that soooo many on here do. We don't all have to agree on everything all the time. Just be realistic....it will get you much further than trying to constantly assign blame. I support Republicans for alot of reasons....but i am not so stupid as to think they always do the right thing....they don't!!! I hated Clinton with a passion but had sales went south with him in office.....i would never dream of blaming him. A president...no matter the party....just does not have that sort of clout. The market will ALWAYS decide who fails and who survives.....and thats as it should be.

[FactoryWorker]

If you ARE an employee in the glass house, it is no surprise why this company in going down the tube.

 

 

Every morning up at the Glass House, Bill, Mark and all of the other higher ups get together in the conference room and over dose on "DUMBASS PILLS" and see who can make the most FUCKED UP decisions!

This is one of the best,maybe truest Post's on this site..lol

[FactoryWorker]

Sure was nice to see some intelligence on this site. Nappy.....f150manbdv.....addeled and davekc.....good posts. You make sense and .....as far as i can tell....you don't buy into the blame game that soooo many on here do. We don't all have to agree on everything all the time. Just be realistic....it will get you much further than trying to constantly assign blame. I support Republicans for alot of reasons....but i am not so stupid as to think they always do the right thing....they don't!!! I hated Clinton with a passion but had sales went south with him in office.....i would never dream of blaming him. A president...no matter the party....just does not have that sort of clout. The market will ALWAYS decide who fails and who survives.....and thats as it should be.

 

Sorry to rain on your parade but Presidents and political parties are either very involved or completely absent from economical decisions in every country..even ones where laisser faire should apply. In the matter of this Party, President, and its' term, they have been absent from any form of economical or political support with regards to the North American Auto Industry - even twice snubbing auto executives when invited to sit down. To say that they practice laisser faire would not be correct: they subsidise the farm, lumber, fishery industries etc etc. So on that note, by not placing tarrifs on foreign imports or at least economically supporting the auto sector, this shows a political agenda moving in a different direction devoid of any concern for the well being of the North American Auto Worker and all others supported by this industry. While it is true that the market should decide who fails and who survives, the truth is that if the government does not protect our own industries and allows the North American trade to be bombarded by imports with minimal exports in an unfair trade agreement, the market is doomed to fail with no chance of success. We are selling out our own country, industries and families. So to say that the Government or the President is blameless in this situation is completely erroneous.

[F150MANBDV]

Sorry to rain on your parade but Presidents and political parties are either very involved or completely absent from economical decisions in every country..even ones where laisser faire should apply. In the matter of this Party, President, and its' term, they have been absent from any form of economical or political support with regards to the North American Auto Industry - even twice snubbing auto executives when invited to sit down. To say that they practice laisser faire would not be correct: they subsidise the farm, lumber, fishery industries etc etc. So on that note, by not placing tarrifs on foreign imports or at least economically supporting the auto sector, this shows a political agenda moving in a different direction devoid of any concern for the well being of the North American Auto Worker and all others supported by this industry. While it is true that the market should decide who fails and who survives, the truth is that if the government does not protect our own industries and allows the North American trade to be bombarded by imports with minimal exports in an unfair trade agreement, the market is doomed to fail with no chance of success. We are selling out our own country, industries and families. So to say that the Government or the President is blameless in this situation is completely erroneous.

 

You make some valid points, but I would like to take this another direction and suggest as one who more

closely aligns himself as a Libertarian that the very best thing that ANY president and congress can do for the USA economy is get behind The Fair Tax ( HR 25 ) first proposed in 1999 and put forth in every congress since. It is gaining tremendous momentum accross this country and would have huge and massive positive affects on all aspects of our lives here in the USA.

Many economists have projected the US economy would grow a whopping 10% the 1st year after HR 25 becomes law.

What would that mean for companies thinking about taking jobs offshore....might they keep them here or even RETURN !

Instead of US automakers building plants elsewhere would they consider investing in NEW PLANTS HERE IN THE USA ?

This is why I dont understand why more labor unions dont get behind this for job creation ?

 

In a nutshell HR 25 totally eliminates ALL INCOME TAXES, and places a national sales tax of 23% ( proposed in HR 25 ) on all purchases ( there is more involved here touching large ticket items like homes, cars etc...and it is ALL covered in the current bill before congress.

This is not a new idea and has been gone over with a fine tooth comb by brilliant financial people for years and in most cases the consensus is that upon passage and taking effect it would...overnight....turn the USA into the world's greatest offshore tax haven for investment !

 

Imagine for a moment what that would mean for us here in the USA on wealth creation, job creation, quality of life, WHAT YOU MAKE IS WHAT YOU KEEP....how would invest and grow that additional income if you did'nt have to pay, federal, SS, FICA* imbedded taxes you dont see on goods and services you buy every day....how would you take that money and invest it, make it grow, start or grow a business ?

Invest in the markets ? Invest in yourselves ?

* I excluded local, city, and state taxes because HR 25 is about FEDERAL ( NO IRS ) taxes, it would be up to localities, cities, and states to tax or not tax[ there are NO state taxes in either TX or FL ].

 

Did'nt mean to go crazy here but it is so frustrating to think that with this one move of courage and resolve

our national leadership of both parties would set this country on a path of such a massive economic explosion and expansion it is almost beyond imagination.

 

If the UAW were truely interested in the long term financial health of its membership then it should

be 100% behind this because it would allow its members to keep 100% of every dollar they make

in their pockets !

There has been tons of of research and pain staking disection on HR 25 and its ramifications for years.

If you're curious just Google search "HR 25"....you'll get it all....pro and con.

One of the best studies Ive seen is from : The Cato Institute....Ill warn you....its like 25 pages of fine print and very dry

reading but very interesting if you're of that ilk....its perfect for insomnia !

Edited September 1, 2006 by F150MANBDV

[overwhelmed]

I would like to know how you consider yourself a "man of the cloth"? As a man of the cloth you should know that you don't talk to people the way you have in previous posts. You are supposed to offer words of encouragement. Be a ear or a shoulder.

And as a "man of the cloth" I think you need to go back to seminary school. A true follower would never, (let me repeat so that you do not misunderstand) WOULD NEVER claim theirselves to be the greatest at anything! You stated in a post the following quote "The "Swami" rules"

wizards ego trip

It is inconceiveable that you can stand in front of people speaking the word of GOD. knowing that you take great pleasure in trying to dash peoples hopes. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

To everyone else on this forum, I apologize. Bless you all!

 

 

 

 

what was not nice about it ??? it is the truth and not some fantasy about getting a boatload of cash.

Someone please answer this next question with a little thought and give an intelligent answer

 

"Do you think NAP would be half assed open right now if FORD didn't have to offer buyouts for closing before the current UAW Contract expires" ??????? In you're opinion does FORD need these trucks ???? You folks on this Board are living in lala land !!

[napbob]

You make some valid points, but I would like to take this another direction and suggest as one who more

closely aligns himself as a Libertarian that the very best thing that ANY president and congress can do for the USA economy is get behind The Fair Tax ( HR 25 ) first proposed in 1999 and put forth in every congress since. It is gaining tremendous momentum accross this country and would have huge and massive positive affects on all aspects of our lives here in the USA.

Many economists have projected the US economy would grow a whopping 10% the 1st year after HR 25 becomes law.

What would that mean for companies thinking about taking jobs offshore....might they keep them here or even RETURN !

Instead of US automakers building plants elsewhere would they consider investing in NEW PLANTS HERE IN THE USA ?

This is why I dont understand why more labor unions dont get behind this for job creation ?

 

In a nutshell HR 25 totally eliminates ALL INCOME TAXES, and places a national sales tax of 23% ( proposed in HR 25 ) on all purchases ( there is more involved here touching large ticket items like homes, cars etc...and it is ALL covered in the current bill before congress.

This is not a new idea and has been gone over with a fine tooth comb by brilliant financial people for years and in most cases the consensus is that upon passage and taking effect it would...overnight....turn the USA into the world's greatest offshore tax haven for investment !

 

Imagine for a moment what that would mean for us here in the USA on wealth creation, job creation, quality of life, WHAT YOU MAKE IS WHAT YOU KEEP....how would invest and grow that additional income if you did'nt have to pay, federal, SS, FICA* imbedded taxes you dont see on goods and services you buy every day....how would you take that money and invest it, make it grow, start or grow a business ?

Invest in the markets ? Invest in yourselves ?

* I excluded local, city, and state taxes because HR 25 is about FEDERAL ( NO IRS ) taxes, it would be up to localities, cities, and states to tax or not tax[ there are NO state taxes in either TX or FL ].

 

Did'nt mean to go crazy here but it is so frustrating to think that with this one move of courage and resolve

our national leadership of both parties would set this country on a path of such a massive economic explosion and expansion it is almost beyond imagination.

 

If the UAW were truely interested in the long term financial health of its membership then it should

be 100% behind this because it would allow its members to keep 100% of every dollar they make

in their pockets !

There has been tons of of research and pain staking disection on HR 25 and its ramifications for years.

If you're curious just Google search "HR 25"....you'll get it all....pro and con.

One of the best studies Ive seen is from : The Cato Institute....Ill warn you....its like 25 pages of fine print and very dry

reading but very interesting if you're of that ilk....its perfect for insomnia !

We all need to get behind this bill and start calling senators and congressmen and keep trying to push this bill through. Thanks for posting the only sensible thing I've seen on this sight in quite a while.

[FactoryWorker]

You make some valid points, but I would like to take this another direction and suggest as one who more

closely aligns himself as a Libertarian that the very best thing that ANY president and congress can do for the USA economy is get behind The Fair Tax ( HR 25 ) first proposed in 1999 and put forth in every congress since. It is gaining tremendous momentum accross this country and would have huge and massive positive affects on all aspects of our lives here in the USA.

Many economists have projected the US economy would grow a whopping 10% the 1st year after HR 25 becomes law.

What would that mean for companies thinking about taking jobs offshore....might they keep them here or even RETURN !

Instead of US automakers building plants elsewhere would they consider investing in NEW PLANTS HERE IN THE USA ?

This is why I dont understand why more labor unions dont get behind this for job creation ?

 

In a nutshell HR 25 totally eliminates ALL INCOME TAXES, and places a national sales tax of 23% ( proposed in HR 25 ) on all purchases ( there is more involved here touching large ticket items like homes, cars etc...and it is ALL covered in the current bill before congress.

This is not a new idea and has been gone over with a fine tooth comb by brilliant financial people for years and in most cases the consensus is that upon passage and taking effect it would...overnight....turn the USA into the world's greatest offshore tax haven for investment !

 

Imagine for a moment what that would mean for us here in the USA on wealth creation, job creation, quality of life, WHAT YOU MAKE IS WHAT YOU KEEP....how would invest and grow that additional income if you did'nt have to pay, federal, SS, FICA* imbedded taxes you dont see on goods and services you buy every day....how would you take that money and invest it, make it grow, start or grow a business ?

Invest in the markets ? Invest in yourselves ?

* I excluded local, city, and state taxes because HR 25 is about FEDERAL ( NO IRS ) taxes, it would be up to localities, cities, and states to tax or not tax[ there are NO state taxes in either TX or FL ].

 

Did'nt mean to go crazy here but it is so frustrating to think that with this one move of courage and resolve

our national leadership of both parties would set this country on a path of such a massive economic explosion and expansion it is almost beyond imagination.

 

If the UAW were truely interested in the long term financial health of its membership then it should

be 100% behind this because it would allow its members to keep 100% of every dollar they make

in their pockets !

There has been tons of of research and pain staking disection on HR 25 and its ramifications for years.

If you're curious just Google search "HR 25"....you'll get it all....pro and con.

One of the best studies Ive seen is from : The Cato Institute....Ill warn you....its like 25 pages of fine print and very dry

reading but very interesting if you're of that ilk....its perfect for insomnia !

I thank you for the reply ,but changing the tax base in America in no way shields or defends the North American auto industry from the perfidious foriegn goverments of importing nations.North American Goverments need to set motions to give all sectors of buisness (formost the auto sector)a level playing field.Untill this happens we are playing ball at our homefield with there Umps calling the balls and strikes.

[dukka]

That is the biggest bunch of horse shit i have ever read.......the federal govt. has not one friggin thing to do with Ford's ability to sell cars and trucks. That problem lies with Ford and Ford alone. No matter what you liberal suck-asses want to believe....Mr Bush and the rest of the govt. have no impact whatsoever! on the amount of market share Ford or any other company has. Our share has dropped due to poor market planning and thats about it in a nutshell. The war in Iraq has no bearing on auto sales. If we were not at war you are saying our sales and profits would be just dandy? While i am certainly a proud UAW member....i have never been one to buy into the union blame game of just pointing the finger at the federal govt......especially if its a Republican in office, for all the ills of our industry. If you really believe that all this is happening just because of the govt......then you, most of you anyway [and ALOT posters on this board] are indeed just as stupid and pathetic as the public thinks you are. Do us all a favor and take the education buyout and study Econ 101.

 

Nice post pistonfan but the reality is you could hit some of the "sheople" over head with a Louisville slugger repeatedly for 3 days straight and many would still blame some right wing Bush conspiracy to break the UAW.

[pistonfan]

Nice post pistonfan but the reality is you could hit some of the "sheople" over head with a Louisville slugger repeatedly for 3 days straight and many would still blame some right wing Bush conspiracy to break the UAW.

Thanks dukka....but as you can see we still have people like factory worker who still believe the govt. really controls an economy as large as ours. They don't. Period. Just another clown that wants a fall guy for the predicament we and the other auto makers are in, it just distracts us from solving the problems when we have a segment that can only try to scare up boogy-men to blame our ills on. Ford and the UAW are 99.9999999999% of the problem. The govt. is only a problem for these morons because the guy they wanted in is not there. Does anyone really think these same fools would be spouting this drivel about it being the prez's fault if their guy was in the whitehouse? Not bloody likely! These same people would be making every excuse in the world how it WAS NOT the presidents doing! Factory worker.......your ignorance of how the world and U.S. economy works is truly mindboggling. If you had any intellectual honesty you would admit it too.......your bias toward the other party is quite transparent......and kinda sad to boot.