Will the Ford Edge SAVE the Ford Motor Company??

[OAC_Sparky]

What you are referring to is what happened 25 years ago, this isn't now. Ford doesn't house and feed its workers like the Japs did back in the 70s. Ford can't fire-sale new product and make a profit.

 

Ford already prices its products below the Japanese. haven't you noticed?

[Guest Sixcav]

Ford already prices its products below the Japanese. haven't you noticed?

 

LMAO No I hadn't. They might be equally priced, but they sure as hell aren't lower. Look if this what you believe and this what Ford the company believes, that they can't sell cars a little cheaper and give buyers a reason to come back then all I can tell you is get used to losing market share. Get used to losing more and more of it until Ford and GM are fifth, sixth, seventh or even lower on the list. All the while you can yell at people about how they outta be spending 30 grand on an Edge or 28 grand on a Freestyle. They obviously aren't listening Sparks.

[OAC_Sparky]

All the while you can yell at people about how they outta be spending 30 grand on an Edge or 28 grand on a Freestyle.

Who's yelling? I'm not. This is the second reference to me "yelling". :shrug:

 

Like I pointed out to you in the other thread. Pricing isn't even officially out on the Edge yet.

 

So all this ranting you're doing is :blah: :blah: :blah:

[Extreme4x4]

The negatoid is back to his ranting and raving. Gee, what a surprise.

 

News for you, negatoid............ the Fusion is $1500-3000 less than its comparitively equipped Honda or Toyota.

 

If you expect Ford or GM to undercut the Koreans by that amount, then you obviously do not live in the same universe we do.

 

The Edge will come in less than their competitors also. The new (07)Expedition is already thousands less than a comparable Tahoe. Ford is being very careful with pricing on their new models.

 

However, none of this will matter to you. You will continue to rant and rave that Ford needs to sell new Edges for $15K............. price Focus's with Aveo's.............. price Explorers with ............ hell, I don't even know what a "cheap" SUV is............. and price Expeditions less than Explorers currently are. Then they can just wonder at their amazing marketshare................. as they shut the doors, because they are selling for less than they cost to build.

 

I have news for you. It is 2006. The average price of a new vehicle is over $25K............. and is probably closer to $28K. That you don't want to pay that much is your problem.

[OAC_Sparky]

I have news for you. It is 2006. The average price of a new vehicle is over $25K............. and is probably closer to $28K. That you don't want to pay that much is your problem.

 

[Roadrunner]

<<The average new car cost is $25k>>

 

Exactly.

 

Unlike some things, like electronics, cars have risen in price. Then again, cars now have a lot more things inside of them like airbags, etc.

[mettech]

Ford is upside down to Toyota from the beginning when building a car at the tune of $800 - $1000 because of additional overhead cost. The only way to stay in the same ball park is by reducing the price of the material used in making the vehicle.

 

As such, the grade of the plastic, vinyl, cloth, carpet, controls might be slightly lower. Ford and GM can produce a vehicle equal or better than Toyota/Lexus, but it would cost several thousand dollars more to do so.

[White99GT]

I think Sixcav is out of touch on the prices of new cars.

 

When pickups, which sell in huge numbers, regularly fetch $40K, a $25K Edge isn't going to seem unreasonable to *most* people.

 

Honestly, how many F-250 Lariat 4x4 Powerstrokes do you see running around? I see multitudes, no matter where I go. Do you realize those trucks sticker for over $50K? Do you realize a decently equipped F-150 stickers for mid-high 30s and can easily go over 40K?

 

Do you really think Ford cars and trucks are more expensive than the competition? With the exception of the Koreans and some Nissans they really aren't based on what I have seen on the lots. Cars, like most new fixed assets today, are expensive. Get used to it, the days of $12,000 5.0 Mustangs is long over.

[Guest Sixcav]

If you expect Ford or GM to undercut the Koreans by that amount, then you obviously do not live in the same universe we do.

LOL Yes I know, the blue oval Fordiverse. Where the light from the sky is referred to as Fordshine. Everyone wears blue and they all drive 30 grand overpriced Fords. lol

 

This notion that it's 2006 and cars just cost 25 grand now and we all just outta get used to it. Hey that may be the prevailing thought here in la la land, but out there in the real world, people aren't buying 25 grand Fords. What are they now? # 2 is it? Behind who? Toyota that's right. lol

 

Look the Fusion is a good example of what I'm talking about.

 

the Fusion is $1500-3000 less than its comparitively equipped Honda or Toyota.

 

You can get a V6 Accord comparably priced with comparable options for the same price as the Fusion. It is true, however, that Honda has some options for the V6 Accord that can make the price go well above what a Fusion would cost. But that's an option issue folks. That's because Honda is offereing some options that Ford is not and that's all. Now why is the Fusion low cost. Could it be that it's because they are building it in Mexico where the cost of labor is far less and the cost of operating the production facility is less? Could it be that some folks at Ford realize, even if you don't, that in order to stay competitive they have to keep the price of their cars down? Now keep in mind that the vast majority of Accords that are sold are the 4 cylinder version and those price tags average where? That's right girls in the 18 to 22K range. Anyone see a pattern here. Now it's true that you can get a Fusion for that too. But again, it only reaffirms the point. The same is true over at Toyota where most of the Camry's sold are the less expensive 4 cylinder model.

 

So Ford has one bright spot in the line up. The Fusion. A good car, at good prices. But they have to go out of country to make it to keep the cost down and keep the car competitive. You guys like to make light of the Korean cars. The Sonata is made right here in the US guys, by Americans, getting paid in real American dollars. They still manage to sell it for far less than the competition. So like your fathers before you I'm sure you guys will all say "Korean crap" and how they are inferior cars and all that. Sound familiar? Meanwhile the industry is paying attention because the Sonata is a good car now. The only ones not paying attention are you folks here in the Fordiverse. lol Don't get mad at me because I'm jerking your heads out of the sand and making you see.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Sixcav

[igor]

Fusion Versus Accord:

2006 Fusion I4 SEL is $2074 cheaper than 2006 Accord I4 EX. The price difference jumps to $2520 with rebates included.

 

2006 Fusion V6 SEL is $1827 cheaper than 2006 Accord V6 EX. The price difference jumps to $2275 with rebates included.

 

Fusion Versus 07 Camry

2006 Fusion I4 SEL is $673 cheaper than 2007 Camry I4 SE. The price difference jumps to $1524 with rebates included.

 

2006 Fusion V6 SEL is $1108 cheaper than 2007 Camry SE V6. The price difference jumps to $1864 with rebates included.

 

These numbers are from www.truedelta.com price comparison using feature maximization.

 

The database does not have the info yet on 2007 Fusion, but we can expect the difference to jump up as Ford will add standard featurs (e.g. Airbags) and will likely not raise base price accordingly.

 

The numbers prove you wrong SixCav.

 

Igor

Edited September 11, 2006 by igor

[ZanatWork]

Thanks, igor, I was about to post that.

[Guest Sixcav]

The numbers prove you wrong SixCav.

 

Do they? You can make internet website numbers say anything you want buddy. Meanwhile outside of the Fordiverse the numbers say that Toyota is kicking Ford's ass. Those are the only numbres that count.

[OAC_Sparky]

Do they? You can make internet website numbers say anything you want buddy. Meanwhile outside of the Fordiverse the numbers say that Toyota is kicking Ford's ass. Those are the only numbres that count.

:blah:

 

In the absense of a thoughtful rebuttal that proves your argument, you resort to school playground taunts.

 

I guess this is a glimpse of your true nature.

 

:blah:

 

No comment about the pricing of the MKX yet? I'm waiting to see you explain your way out of this one.

Edited September 11, 2006 by OAC_Sparky

[Bluecon]

wrong post

Edited September 11, 2006 by Bluecon

[Guest Sixcav]

Don't cry sparky. It's not my fault that Ford is getting beat. I'd like to see them on top again. Don't get upset because I don't agree with your notion that we all outta just suck it up and pay for this overpriced cars. No we shouldn't. They aren't worth it. I already openly stated a number of times that Fusion is Fords bright spot in the line up, that it's a good car, well priced and all that. So I don't need some jerkweed to keep throwing up at me as the "Seeeeee this is where you're wrong." crap. Like a statement fromt he department of the obvious, it's not needed nor is it worth responding too.

[igor]

Don't cry sparky. It's not my fault that Ford is getting beat. I'd like to see them on top again. Don't get upset because I don't agree with your notion that we all outta just suck it up and pay for this overpriced cars. No we shouldn't. They aren't worth it. I already openly stated a number of times that Fusion is Fords bright spot in the line up, that it's a good car, well priced and all that. So I don't need some jerkweed to keep throwing up at me as the "Seeeeee this is where you're wrong." crap. Like a statement fromt he department of the obvious, it's not needed nor is it worth responding too.

 

I feel like I am trying to direct a chicken without a head that keep running against a wall ..

 

I feel SixCav is our new Trimdingman - one can povide as many logical arguments against him, he will never EVER allow reason to enter his mind ...

 

I think I am bowing out of this discussion .. SixCav is damaged goods - we shold return him ..

 

And I actually agree with some of your assertions - like that cars are overpriced - but the inferrences you draw on this simplt claim is completely unsupported and spurious (if you do not understand the word - look it up), yet you never ever discuss anything - you just argue back to not have to admit you are wrong.

 

Igor

Edited September 11, 2006 by igor

[OAC_Sparky]

Don't cry sparky. It's not my fault that Ford is getting beat. I'd like to see them on top again. Don't get upset because I don't agree with your notion that we all outta just suck it up and pay for this overpriced cars. No we shouldn't. They aren't worth it. I already openly stated a number of times that Fusion is Fords bright spot in the line up, that it's a good car, well priced and all that. So I don't need some jerkweed to keep throwing up at me as the "Seeeeee this is where you're wrong." crap. Like a statement fromt he department of the obvious, it's not needed nor is it worth responding too.

How about, "Wow, that's great that they're starting the Lincoln pricing below $30G", this magic number you keep quoting. How do you think the Edge will be priced.

 

You make the assertion that the Fords are priced higher than the imports, you are proven wrong, and the best that you can come up with is "Well Toyota is still kicking Ford's ass." Not, coming up with your own numbers, quotes, whatever. Just a statement unrelated to the argument (about competitive pricing). The Fusion is a year old, its Toyota competition has been a nameplate out for years. If it wasn't "kicking Ford's ass (in numbers), I guess Toyota would "have some 'splaining to do".

 

And all this "I'm trying to pull your heads out of the sand in Fordiverse" metaphor is getting old, it wasn't even humorous to begin with. Lemon, he's weird but somewhat funny. You need a new act. You remind me of that SNL skit "Debbie Downer" Waaa Waaa Waaa!!

 

Edited September 11, 2006 by OAC_Sparky

[Guest Sixcav]

You make the assertion that the Fords are priced higher than the imports

 

No I'm not making that assertion. You obviously have a comprehension problem. All I'm saying is that much of Fords lineup now is damned expensive. I have said that numerous times. But you hear what you want to hear. Anything that doesn't jive with your "Ford is perfect" mantality is automatically determined to be pro-import. Look if you wann suck the big blue pecker everyday, go ahead. I'm not down for that. Ford is losing market share. They are behind Toyota now. All I hear from you guys is why it's not Fords fault. Of course it is. They have a number of problems, all of which I covered and all of which ar common knowledge. They have some unappealing cars, they have a perception problem, their bread and butter pickup and SUV lines are not selling because gas is high now, their Bold Moves campaign has left most people uninspired and their prices are high.

 

Didn't I just sit here and say I'd like to see Ford back on top? I know I did. I know I said that I like the Fusion, that it's a good car. I own a brand new Mustang. In past threads I've even openly stated that I like the Edge but I just think it's too expensive. But I guess all that's just not good enough is it guys? Nope. Unless I get on here and :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: for Ford all day long I have to be a negatoid or whatever other stupid ass names you guys can whip up. That's fine, be twelve years old if you want. In the meantime Ford is still losing market share. As I see it, these are the reasons why. If you got some big fuckin secret then why don't you sing me something already. I don't see any of you doing anything but making excuses. So lets hear it boys. Why is Ford losing market share? Why are they getthing beat by Toyota? And how do they fix it?

[OAC_Sparky]

And how do they fix it?

They are fixing it. Look at car sales.

 

Ford didn't get into this position overnight, the solution will not fix things overnight either.

[Guest Sixcav]

Ford didn't get into this position overnight, the solution will not fix things overnight either.

 

That's the first thing you've said that's right on the money sparks. Yes it will take a long time. Just as it took a long time for honda and toyota to evolve from the "jap crap" perception to the preferred cars on the market. It will also take Ford and GM a long time to get people to realize that domestic cars are not poor quality and unreliable. The shoe really is on the other foot now. But right now the only car Ford has going for it is the Fusion. It's a nice car, well appointed, good pricing. But in todays market with all of the choices that buyers have they'll not be able to sell enough Fusions for it alone to turn Ford around. The 500 is just not appealing and people aren't buying it. So what else? The Fusion, while capable, isn't that capable. So what else do they do?

 

PS Since you're so hung up on numbers and backing them up Sparks, here you go.

 

253,976 is the number of vehicles Ford sold in August, down 11% from a year ago. Yes, yes I know the employee pricing thing. Save it.

 

240,178 is the number of Toyota vehicles sold, an increase of 17% from a year ago.

 

Less than Ford right? Or is it? The Ford number includes Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Volvo, Jag and Land Rover combined.

 

The Toyota number is just Toyota and Lexus.

Fords combined car sales are up 8.5%, but Toyota and Lexus car sales are up 19.9%

 

So you think it's looking good or what?

Edited September 12, 2006 by Sixcav

[controller]

Is the Lincoln version of the Edge going to have the same horsepower as the Edge? If so, why? I would thinking the Lincoln version should have 10 to 15 more hp and I really think Ford should develop a 7-speed automatic for their Lincoln line to differentiate it from Ford models. It would also make it more worth paying the higher price.

[Guest Sixcav]

Alright guys, it's been 3 hours since I asked? What should Ford do? How do they fix it? All I got was . . . .

 

They are fixing it. Look at car sales.

 

A point that was summarily shot down. Weak boys, very weak. Where's all the bucket loads of speculative talk we have become so familiar with around here? All I hear is crickets.

 

In the mean time, let me offer some cozy fireside reading for you.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14585542/site/newsweek/

 

 

One of my favorite little exerts from this article is this.

 

This week, Kleinhans, 37, will park his Expedition on a street corner and stick a “for sale†sign in the window. And he’ll take delivery of a new Toyota RAV4, a compact SUV that gets 28 mpg on the highway. Kleinhans decided to ditch the Ford when a fill-up hit triple digits. “Once it hit that $100 plateau,†he says, “I had to start looking around.†He shopped the hybrid Ford Escape SUV, but found it too pricey at $26,000.

 

:eek5: 26,000? Too pricey? Say it isn't soo extreme? Seems like it's time for you and sparks to have a big old cup of shut the hell up guys. lol But please don't take my word for it, read over the article for yourselves. Enjoy.

[OAC_Sparky]

Alright guys, it's been 3 hours since I asked? What should Ford do? How do they fix it? All I got was . . . .

A point that was summarily shot down. Weak boys, very weak. Where's all the bucket loads of speculative talk we have become so familiar with around here? All I hear is crickets.

 

In the mean time, let me offer some cozy fireside reading for you.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14585542/site/newsweek/

One of my favorite little exerts from this article is this.

 

This week, Kleinhans, 37, will park his Expedition on a street corner and stick a “for sale†sign in the window. And he’ll take delivery of a new Toyota RAV4, a compact SUV that gets 28 mpg on the highway. Kleinhans decided to ditch the Ford when a fill-up hit triple digits. “Once it hit that $100 plateau,†he says, “I had to start looking around.†He shopped the hybrid Ford Escape SUV, but found it too pricey at $26,000.

 

:eek5: 26,000? Too pricey? Say it isn't soo extreme? Seems like it's time for you and sparks to have a big old cup of shut the hell up guys. lol But please don't take my word for it, read over the article for yourselves. Enjoy.

Hmm....Expedition...Full Sized SUV. RAV4...Not full sized SUV.

 

Again, you moron, you compare non-like vehicles. Just like you did between an Edge and an Audi A4.

 

When Kleinhans want to tow his full-sized motorhome/boat, whatever. Good luck.

 

Next you'll say that the guy that sold his Hummer and rides a bike to work, that suddenly Schwinn captured the SUV market.

 

What a fucking buttplug.

[Watchdevil]

The Edge is not a cutting edge Ford saving vehicle... There are too many competitors in the SUV and crossover market and the Edge pioneers nothing. I could live the rest of my life and not care that Ford would ever bring out another SUV or Crossover...

 

What Ford needs to work on is a RWD performance capable sedan with the right look. Ford also needs to make over badly neglected models. Oh yeah and bring back the right Thunderbird already...

[Guest Sixcav]

Again, you moron, you compare non-like vehicles. Just like you did between an Edge and an Audi A4.

LMAO What? What the hell are you talking about sparks. I didn't make any comparison to anything. This is just an exert from a Newsweek article. So again, shut up, you moron.

I find that a poor example of a smart shopper. If the guy had done any research, he would have found with tax rebates, a comparable price to his RAV4.

 

Apparently the smart shopper felt that 26 grand for a Ford was too expensive. Gee, seems like we've heard that before. lol

 

You guys are both