We need a plan

[Glory_dayzd]

Sneak Peek 2006

Dan Lienert On Autos

12.29.05, 6:00 AM ET

 

The Big Trend

2006 will be the year American automakers borrow a page from the airline industry and break their social contract with unionized workers. In order for the American auto industry to survive, manufacturers will have to cripple their unions, just as Northwest Airlines (nasdaq: NWAC - news - people ) did. Delphi (nyse: DPH - news - people ) Chairman Steve Miller has already demoralized his unionized workers; in 2006 he will force the UAW to abandon a decades-old tradition of gold-plated wages and benefits for its workers. Following suit, General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ), Ford Motor (nyse: F - news - people ) and Chrysler will begin to chip away at the power of their union workers, too.

 

The Unconventional Wisdom

People keep waiting for American automakers to decrease their dependence on sales incentives in favor of better supply-and-demand management. After all, adjusting production instead of offering sweetheart deals is what works for the Japanese. But instead, in 2006 the Japanese will behave more like Americans than the Americans will behave like Japanese. Companies such as Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people ) will increase incentive spending. Declining truck and SUV sales are affecting all automakers, and the Japanese have laid some eggs in the truck market--e.g., the Subaru Baja and Honda Motor (nyse: HMC - news - people ) Ridgeline. Because trucks account for such an enormous percentage of sales, truck-based incentive spending will increase overall Japanese incentive spending in 2006.

 

The Misplaced Assumption

People will continue, incorrectly, to blame declining SUV sales on gas prices, when gas prices will stay below $3 per gallon. Everybody seems to forget the change in the tax code that prevented tens of millions of entrepreneurs from writing off SUV purchases against their companies’ taxable income. Congress has played as big a role as oil prices--perhaps a bigger one--in the decline of SUV sales.

 

The Watch List

-- Hyundai and Kia: Sales will continue to go up, more upscale customers will come to the brands, and Toyota will continue to fear the Koreans more than any other competitors.

 

-- Honda: Sales trends may indicate Honda does not have the same seeming infallibility as Toyota. The company’s new Civic will sell well, but vehicles such as its Element and CR-V SUVs will go down in sales.

 

-- Perennial death watch: Isuzu, Mitsubishi and Buick.

 

The Bold Prediction

A Chinese automaker will announce a joint venture for North America with a partner such as Subaru, Isuzu or Mitsubishi. Or a Chinese automaker will buy a well-established but troubled company such as Mitsubishi.

[Pipefitter]

Another thing that bothers me along the same lines is that as the foreign auto makers build plants here. Lets say we organize Toyota, Honda etc into UAW plants. Then we have no right to ask our UAW Brothers & Sisters working at those plants not to buy foreign vehicles under their employee discount and family plans??? Where does that take us in the long run???

 

I may be crazy (that's beside the point though) But I can see in the not too distant future a consolidation of the Big Three, into the Big Two, or even the Big One US Auto Maker???

[sailorjohn]

Another thing that bothers me along the same lines is that as the foreign auto makers build plants here. Lets say we organize Toyota, Honda etc into UAW plants. Then we have no right to ask our UAW Brothers & Sisters working at those plants not to buy foreign vehicles under their employee discount and family plans??? Where does that take us in the long run???

 

No need to worry about that, UAW will never organize the majority of the transplants. Meanwhile, what do you tell them now? Don't buy Japanese? Don't buy vehicles made in non-union shops? I'm gonna go out and tell someone that they should buy an American vehicle built in a UAW shop so that they can support our lifestyle, while I probably make more money than they do?

[Glory_dayzd]

The problems with transplants, other than the legacy costs and non-union status, is that the profits are taken from the US economy and sent back to their countries of origin, even though the individual local economies are improved, due to the incomes of the employees.

[dark270]

Sneak Peek 2006

Dan Lienert On Autos

12.29.05, 6:00 AM ET

 

The Big Trend

2006 will be the year American automakers borrow a page from the airline industry and break their social contract with unionized workers. In order for the American auto industry to survive, manufacturers will have to cripple their unions, just as Northwest Airlines (nasdaq: NWAC - news - people ) did. Delphi (nyse: DPH - news - people ) Chairman Steve Miller has already demoralized his unionized workers; in 2006 he will force the UAW to abandon a decades-old tradition of gold-plated wages and benefits for its workers. Following suit, General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ), Ford Motor (nyse: F - news - people ) and Chrysler will begin to chip away at the power of their union workers, too.

 

The Unconventional Wisdom

People keep waiting for American automakers to decrease their dependence on sales incentives in favor of better supply-and-demand management. After all, adjusting production instead of offering sweetheart deals is what works for the Japanese. But instead, in 2006 the Japanese will behave more like Americans than the Americans will behave like Japanese. Companies such as Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people ) will increase incentive spending. Declining truck and SUV sales are affecting all automakers, and the Japanese have laid some eggs in the truck market--e.g., the Subaru Baja and Honda Motor (nyse: HMC - news - people ) Ridgeline. Because trucks account for such an enormous percentage of sales, truck-based incentive spending will increase overall Japanese incentive spending in 2006.

 

The Misplaced Assumption

People will continue, incorrectly, to blame declining SUV sales on gas prices, when gas prices will stay below $3 per gallon. Everybody seems to forget the change in the tax code that prevented tens of millions of entrepreneurs from writing off SUV purchases against their companies’ taxable income. Congress has played as big a role as oil prices--perhaps a bigger one--in the decline of SUV sales.

 

The Watch List

-- Hyundai and Kia: Sales will continue to go up, more upscale customers will come to the brands, and Toyota will continue to fear the Koreans more than any other competitors.

 

-- Honda: Sales trends may indicate Honda does not have the same seeming infallibility as Toyota. The company’s new Civic will sell well, but vehicles such as its Element and CR-V SUVs will go down in sales.

 

-- Perennial death watch: Isuzu, Mitsubishi and Buick.

 

The Bold Prediction

A Chinese automaker will announce a joint venture for North America with a partner such as Subaru, Isuzu or Mitsubishi. Or a Chinese automaker will buy a well-established but troubled company such as Mitsubishi.

 

good ol' dan...anti union asshole!

i dont believe shit he says!

[Pumpmaster]

The problems with transplants, other than the legacy costs and non-union status, is that the profits are taken from the US economy and sent back to their countries of origin, even though the individual local economies are improved, due to the incomes of the employees.

 

If that's true, then where do the Asians get the money to build their U.S. plants?

[06StangAwesomecar]

What needs to happen, is people going to work and doing their job, and doing it good, the I dont care attitude is rampant all over, the screw them mentality is all over, these plants are going for a reason, they want them to show a loss, so then they have a reason to shut those plants down, running scrap makes no sense to me, and if a machine isnt right then make a big deal about it, the breaking of equipment to get out of work or to get overtime is just jeprodizing the future of everyone, but they are just thinking of themselves. Ford employees buying import scrap, unbelivable, then complain about their future. And people need to support the USA made products, Its amazing how many people I work with say f-Ford, f- the union, all while sitting on their ass for 8-12hrs, and then telling me about the crap they bought at Wal-Fart.

People better wake up, the excellent jobs,benifits, pensions they have now are being sent overseas at a alarming rate, and the f,ed up goverment, and media, and majority of the public could care less.

[Imawhosure]

Pumpster,

 

I agree with you 100% Yes, a plan is needed, and we have to throw out political lines to do it.

 

1st and foremost----->We must make the union do what we want. We must agree on what most of us can agree on, then make them do it under pressure of having the locals thrown out and replaced.(that is going to take a lot of doing, but it seems our brothers and sisters are finally pissed)

 

2nd-------->We must start to use OUR UNIONS money for a better purpose than failure to get anyone elected in politics. We have a ton of cash to spend, but how they spend it is doing us no good. Oh sure, we can argue about what political party to spend it on, but why?!?!?! We need to spend it on other things that benefit ALL UAW workers as far as their job goes. Discussion about what party is better or worse does us nothing but divide us, which is exactly what they are hoping for. Political action cash should be eliminated until we stabilize the situation.

 

3rd---------->Any NEW elected officials attend a work shop.(did you know that?) I won't tell you what things are uttered there cause although I have heard it from a couple of very good friends, all it will do if I state it is cause the "WRATH OF PRESENT UNION REPS HERE TO COME DOWN UPON ME," lolol!!!!!

 

So then, their workshop needs a part 2!!!!!!! Go to Georgetown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wanna be a union rep?????????????????? OK, you may go to Vegas for the convention, but you are going to Georgetown for 2 weeks. Let us see you work, cause when you get back, your life will be all good. Gotta pay for the right to protect us ya know, just as we gotta pay for the right to have you protect us.

 

4th-------->Pumpster, you and I are opposite on many of the things we think. We ALL must find common ground that we can get behind. We can't discuss politics cause guys like me aren't changing you, and guys like you aren't changing me. But...................if we get together, we have an advantage!!!!!!! You see, the union only thinks one way. They are ingrained by the thoughts of words that mean nothing......except to people in the know; like "dog eat dog, (woof-woof) whipsawing,(new kinda artillery piece for removal of trees) the man, (slavery has been gone for over a hundred years) and the list goes on.

 

Now then, go do a little experiment, ask someone who lives by any of you what these phrases mean. They are gonna look at you like you are crazy!!!!!!! These are the "phrases" our fearless union uses to fire people up, lololol.(about 16% of the working population I think) It gets us no where fast. We need to PAY for consultants to explain these things to the public, make a message for the masses.

 

For all of us, the "truth is not relevant to anyone, but what is perceived to be the truth is!" Regardless of which the union decides to tell, they need someone who can "spin" their version better. Right now, all we get is no comment!!!! We pay alot of money for that all, and to me that is totally unacceptable.

 

What do you think Pump?

[Spring]

Imawhosure, we're going to accomplish nothing until such a time as we run the Convention floor! As it is right now, the Administration Caucus still does. We need to get the people in place who aren't afraid to be a voice for the rank and file and get them to the Convention. Get them there and have them make the stand against the AC! Let's take our unions back!

[slapshot2]

Imawhosure, we're going to accomplish nothing until such a time as we run the Convention floor! As it is right now, the Administration Caucus still does. We need to get the people in place who aren't afraid to be a voice for the rank and file and get them to the Convention. Get them there and have them make the stand against the AC! Let's take our unions back!

 

 

I agree with you Mary!!! Let's get some better people out to that convention to run the floor. Gee, who do you suppose would be a good candidate to endorse from local 2000? Surely this isn't your subtle way of announcing your candidacy, is it? I am sure you would be the first to agree that we need experienced union people at the convention, wouldn't you? So, since you have NO actual experience that would be beneficial to the membership at the upcoming convention, which you have already established is critical to the membership, who is it that you're making the play for on this board? Daddy perhaps? How very coy of you. Can't he afford to simply pay for a vacation instead of trying to milk one out of the membership?

[justwanttowork]

WE NEED A PLAN? cHECK OUT FUTURE OF THE UNION.COM--CLICK ON GM-JOINTNESS----i KNOW ITS LONG BUT READ--THIS IS US PEOPLE--TEAM CONCEPT? YOU WILL SEE EVERYTHING DIFFERENTLY----I KNOW I DID--WERE IN THIS TOGETHER FOLKS--ARE YOU READY TO FIGHT--I KNOW I AM

[Spring]

I agree with you Mary!!! Let's get some better people out to that convention to run the floor. Gee, who do you suppose would be a good candidate to endorse from local 2000? Surely this isn't your subtle way of announcing your candidacy, is it? I am sure you would be the first to agree that we need experienced union people at the convention, wouldn't you? So, since you have NO actual experience that would be beneficial to the membership at the upcoming convention, which you have already established is critical to the membership, who is it that you're making the play for on this board? Daddy perhaps? How very coy of you. Can't he afford to simply pay for a vacation instead of trying to milk one out of the membership?

 

 

I'm not going to argue with you on such a serious matter. How many people do we usually get to send? About 8 or 9 that are actual delegates and then there are the alternates. It's a given that the President and Chairman will go, isn't it? So let's start thinking outside the box and start looking at people that can adequately relay the wishes of their individual locals on the Convention Floor. By the way slap, have YOU ever been to the Convention? If so, what did YOU accomplish there? Did you just rubber stamp the program of the AC? And since you brought it up, I might just run for Convention. I've never done it before because I wasn't interested but enough of my future has been compromised by the AC that I am considering it. Do you think this is the appropriate forum? Thanks for bringing it up. Where's it at this year? Someone mentioned Detroit. That would be the best place to have it. I hate Vegas with a passion.

 

By the way slap, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

[Quickdraw]

If that's true, then where do the Asians get the money to build their U.S. plants?

 

 

They borrow it from banks and also the states throw money at them to locate within their boundries.

[Bored of Pisteon]

If that's true, then where do the Asians get the money to build their U.S. plants?

 

You want a straight answer to that question. Talk to your "liberal friends" who buy this foreign shit! You know what I'm talking about too! Or don't you... Look at last years election to get a hint... Kerry-Edwards stickers and all this enviromental left-wing shit on all those foreign cars!

 

If you can't decipher where I'm getting at... YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.

[Nixon4pres]

Sneak Peek 2006

Dan Lienert On Autos

12.29.05, 6:00 AM ET

 

The Big Trend

2006 will be the year American automakers borrow a page from the airline industry and break their social contract with unionized workers. In order for the American auto industry to survive, manufacturers will have to cripple their unions, just as Northwest Airlines (nasdaq: NWAC - news - people ) did. Delphi (nyse: DPH - news - people ) Chairman Steve Miller has already demoralized his unionized workers; in 2006 he will force the UAW to abandon a decades-old tradition of gold-plated wages and benefits for its workers. Following suit, General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ), Ford Motor (nyse: F - news - people ) and Chrysler will begin to chip away at the power of their union workers, too.

 

The Unconventional Wisdom

People keep waiting for American automakers to decrease their dependence on sales incentives in favor of better supply-and-demand management. After all, adjusting production instead of offering sweetheart deals is what works for the Japanese. But instead, in 2006 the Japanese will behave more like Americans than the Americans will behave like Japanese. Companies such as Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people ) will increase incentive spending. Declining truck and SUV sales are affecting all automakers, and the Japanese have laid some eggs in the truck market--e.g., the Subaru Baja and Honda Motor (nyse: HMC - news - people ) Ridgeline. Because trucks account for such an enormous percentage of sales, truck-based incentive spending will increase overall Japanese incentive spending in 2006.

 

The Misplaced Assumption

People will continue, incorrectly, to blame declining SUV sales on gas prices, when gas prices will stay below $3 per gallon. Everybody seems to forget the change in the tax code that prevented tens of millions of entrepreneurs from writing off SUV purchases against their companies’ taxable income. Congress has played as big a role as oil prices--perhaps a bigger one--in the decline of SUV sales.

 

The Watch List

-- Hyundai and Kia: Sales will continue to go up, more upscale customers will come to the brands, and Toyota will continue to fear the Koreans more than any other competitors.

 

-- Honda: Sales trends may indicate Honda does not have the same seeming infallibility as Toyota. The company’s new Civic will sell well, but vehicles such as its Element and CR-V SUVs will go down in sales.

 

-- Perennial death watch: Isuzu, Mitsubishi and Buick.

 

The Bold Prediction

A Chinese automaker will announce a joint venture for North America with a partner such as Subaru, Isuzu or Mitsubishi. Or a Chinese automaker will buy a well-established but troubled company such as Mitsubishi.

[slapshot2]

I'm not going to argue with you on such a serious matter. How many people do we usually get to send? About 8 or 9 that are actual delegates and then there are the alternates. It's a given that the President and Chairman will go, isn't it? So let's start thinking outside the box and start looking at people that can adequately relay the wishes of their individual locals on the Convention Floor. By the way slap, have YOU ever been to the Convention? If so, what did YOU accomplish there? Did you just rubber stamp the program of the AC? And since you brought it up, I might just run for Convention. I've never done it before because I wasn't interested but enough of my future has been compromised by the AC that I am considering it. Do you think this is the appropriate forum? Thanks for bringing it up. Where's it at this year? Someone mentioned Detroit. That would be the best place to have it. I hate Vegas with a passion.

 

By the way slap, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

 

No Mary, I've never been to the convention. Never ran for it, probably never will. But then it isn't me that is on this forum telling everybody what is wrong with the uaw and it's officers, and the direction in which we need to go for future security. That person is you. I am merely asking you what qualifies you to be a representitive from local 2000? I fully agree that we need to have a change in leadership. One with new vision for the future and the ability to better negotiae our contracts and protect these agreements once they are in place. My question is; What makes you one of those people? What have you done that would qualify you as a good representative from our local? Those of us that know you know that your purposes have always been self serving and directed towards the betterment of your family. So tell me why that has changed? Do think that having somebody on the convention floor to disrupt things with unfounded allegations and basically pissing moaning and ranting is going to help to secure long term security for all of us in the uaw and our families? Or do you think that we need eduacated union people with a common sense towards the business world and the the changes within it? Give me a solid contribution on which you hang your hat Mary, and even i'll consider voting for you. Getting on people's nerves, however, is not a talent that is going to better the working lives of the membership or their families. Spreading rumors and lies will not either. Filing lawsuits against a group with a common cause falls far short of helping to better the direction and perception of a once large and powerful organization such as the uaw. What you are doing is auditioning for the new people from Lorain so that you can try and get them to send you on a free vacation. Pretty sneaky tactics even for you Mary. Why don't you allow these people to get settled into our plant and their new surroundings before you start bombarding them with your nonsense? They have been through enough. You want to do it now though, before they all begin to see what a true nuisance you really are, much as the rest of us in local 2000 did years ago. Hence your poor performance in the elections in which you have ran for office. Again, shame on you. Give them time, they'll figure you out, the always do.

[Glory_dayzd]

I am not making excuses here, but giving reasons. At my plant, particularly among the younger folks, we have an attendence problem. Some of us here, in this forum, are blasting 'dead-beats' medical cases' etc. There are folks with legitimate medical problems, and I sincerely hope that we are not mis-directing all our emotions in our current situations to scape-goat them. I have asked some of my co-workers why people lay out so much. I have been told that it because everyone is pissed off, Ford is not telling anyone what is going on, etc. The morale is obviously terrible. This was reflected in the recent health concessions vote. Folks feel the situation is hopeless, and that voting did'nt matter, or count, for whatever reason. The union even intimated that if we did'nt vote to pass it, Ford would shut our plant down. Remember. I said I was giving reasons... I am sure that other plants have similar problems. We do not know if we have a product. Ford quit building the Sable, and quit giving the Taurus to dealerships to market to the public; we are down to fleet sales only. And then there is the band-aid approach being utilized to maintain our plant. Money is barely being spent on parts. Someone mentioned that some folks are only thinking about themselves. This is probably because they are scared and feel that no one else is thinking about them. The bottom line is that we have become divided, and this only contributes to the chaos of our situation. There must come a point, for things to change, for something to be deemed critical enough, and with enough universal impact, to pull us back together, such as it was, in the beginning, with unions and the eight hour work day. Anyone would think, reading this forum, that we are a bunch of lazy, irresponsible bums. I am here to tell you, in my opinion, that the hourly workers at the Atlanta Assembly Plant work very hard, take pride in their work, care deeply about their jobs, their co-workers, and their commitment to Ford motor company. There are exceptions, in any case, but we do not need to focus on those exceptions here. I truely believe that the problems Ford is having now are not due to the employees, or to the employee costs. We are all in this together and should support each other. I don't mean to sound preachy, or to offend anyone, and I am not considering running for anything but the door, through my retiring. Oh, and do you guys have air conditioning in your plants? It is HOT in Georgia in the summer time...

Edited December 30, 2005 by Glory_dayzd

[Imawhosure]

I am not making excuses here, but giving reasons. At my plant, particularly among the younger folks, we have an attendence problem. Some of us here, in this forum, are blasting 'dead-beats' medical cases' etc. There are folks with legitimate medical problems, and I sincerely hope that we are not mis-directing all our emotions in our current situations to scape-goat them. I have asked some of my co-workers why people lay out so much. I have been told that it because everyone is pissed off, Ford is not telling anyone what is going on, etc. The morale is obviously terrible. This was reflected in the recent health concessions vote. Folks feel the situation is hopeless, and that voting did'nt matter, or count, for whatever reason. The union even intimated that if we did'nt vote to pass it, Ford would shut our plant down. Remember. I said I was giving reasons... I am sure that other plants have similar problems. We do not know if we have a product. Ford quit building the Sable, and quit giving the Taurus to dealerships to market to the public; we are down to fleet sales only. And then there is the band-aid approach being utilized to maintain our plant. Money is barely being spent on parts. Someone mentioned that some folks are only thinking about themselves. This is probably because they are scared and feel that no one else is thinking about them. The bottom line is that we have become divided, and this only contributes to the chaos of our situation. There must come a point, for things to change, for something to be deemed critical enough, and with enough universal impact, to pull us back together, such as it was, in the beginning, with unions and the eight hour work day. Anyone would think, reading this forum, that we are a bunch of lazy, irresponsible bums. I am here to tell you, in my opinion, that the hourly workers at the Atlanta Assembly Plant work very hard, take pride in their work, care deeply about their jobs, their co-workers, and their commitment to Ford motor company. There are exceptions, in any case, but we do not need to focus on those exceptions here. I truely believe that the problems Ford is having now are not due to the employees, or to the employee costs. We are all in this together and should support each other. I don't mean to sound preachy, or to offend anyone, and I am not considering running for anything but the door, through my retiring. Oh, and do you guys have air conditioning in your plants? It is HOT in Georgia in the summer time...

 

Nope, don't have air at CAP, but if you don't have it being built in the 50s, why would we being built around 1910!

 

I don't think anyone here wants to divide us, in fact most of us want to facilitate a meeting of the minds. Unfortunately, I think we can not see the forest through the proverbial trees at times.

 

1. DEADBEATS------->What is a deadbeat? Do you think a deadbeat is someone who has 5yrs, came to work for 4 of em, then ran into personal problems and has an attendance problem for say, 6 mos? Of course not. That person needs help of some kind help, and we should provide them with it, while informing them that they are in a position of possibly losing their jobs if it continues.

 

Now then, what about the person who has 5yrs, or 10, or 20, or 30 that has consistantly missed work, gotten restrictions, upon restrictions, upon even those restrictions. Should we back them????????

 

As a union, we would be damn fools to continue on doing such a thing. Our efficiency is not rated by how much YOU do or how much YOU make per vehicle built, it is first rated by total employees per plant, then also by total employees per company. In other words, you can work 35% harder than our friends from overseas do, but if your plant has to many deadbeats on roles, than your contribution goes for naught. It is not even recognized in the grand scheme of things, except by the supervision who works closely with you. Many might contend that is enough gratification, doing a good days work for a good days pay, but it is not!!!! Why??????? Cause while we lambast Ford for all their stupidity,(and in many cases rightfully so) we ourselves "lay minefields in our own workplace" by giving those who screw us a pass. If Ford was doing this to us.......by giving us waaaaaay more work, we would all be screaming for a strike!!!!!!!! Instead, we are given moooooooore work to remain efficient, and much of the reason that is, is a group CALLED DEADBEATS!!!

 

Now, if we are even to be considered logical and consistent, if we want to "stick it in Fords rearend when they pull this," shouldn't we stick it in the DEADBEATS rearends for pulling it too?!?!?!?!

 

The final reality of the situation?---------->To stop the bleeding of money and benefits,(at least as much as we can) we have to cut em loose; or rather give the company an easier opportunity to do it for all of us. If they fail because of laziness, then we need to use that AGAINST the company as another example of incompetence.

 

May I suggest that if YOU DO COME to work on a regular basis, put a vote in here............cut em......or save em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

My vote?????????? Cut em, and save you!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Glory_dayzd]

Imawhosure, I think that the situations, i.e., deadbeats, that you are speaking of are another symptom of the disease I am going to call poor management. Management has the tools to use to address those issues, but they don't because it might be a lot of trouble to go to and it is easier, for them, to work around the problem by taking advantage of those whom they can take advantage of. We should all do a fair days work for a fair days pay. That is a reflection of who we are, regardless of who someone else. It does'nt 'seem' fair, particularly when you are the one killing yourself while someone else cruises, but this is an issue for management to address. In a perfect world, with the built in checks and balances we have in place, management would do their job well enough that the union would only be able to salvage those who really should be salvaged. Management's problem often is that they are so harried, stressed, focused upon avoiding being held responsible for things that are going to get them yelled at, and production; opting for the easier out has been a way of life. We have gotten so lean, though, that they are beginning to have to crack down, and things are changing, as seen in the attendence area. We have to be careful, though, about encouraging management in this, or they could go to unreasonable extremes. There is already some concern that they could be looking for any little thing to use to try to get rid of people.

[truthshallset youfree]

Slapshot2 why don't you tell us what your problem is with SPring. Shes been out there answering questions and making things easier for folks. Shes only been writting what we all been saying ourselfs anyways. I dont get what your trying to do. You dont want this infighting to stop you want to keep it going. I wonder if it was anyone other than Spring saying anything if youd be so hostile. It dont matter what she says your gonna say opposite. Shes got some really good points and she aint afraid to say whats right and whats not. We need more folks like her around to get the truth out for us. Theres a lot of folks that dont know how the union works and cant stand up for themselfs because there afraid or dont know how to talk for themselfs. She aint been asking for nothing for herself shes been asking for US! And that lawsuit that Jerry and Rich got going was to protect our rights. You might not care about the rights of folks that was in unit 2 but Im sure glad that someone does. If they can walk all over our contract and our rights then whos next? What there doing might just protect YOUR job someday!

[fmccap]

Ima,

 

I've asked that question at our plant after seeing the same people walking around and going home for years, others getting mad after seeing it day after day. I was told we are all one. Then I wondered if we are all so-called one why they are not busting their ass on the line, or at least doing anything value-added. Never got an answer. I think it should not only be up to management, but to us too, to keep morale up and how we are percieved by this country. It's not good now. We fought for equal work for equal pay and for what. I truely bet that if we did get rid of all them, it would not only save alot of money, it would bring morale up. End result would be money saved, better workers from higher morale which would also end up with much better attendence. Resulting in higher quality cars and trucks, which not over night but over time would bring alot of demand. Just my .02.

[slapshot2]

Slapshot2 why don't you tell us what your problem is with SPring. Shes been out there answering questions and making things easier for folks. Shes only been writting what we all been saying ourselfs anyways. I dont get what your trying to do. You dont want this infighting to stop you want to keep it going. I wonder if it was anyone other than Spring saying anything if youd be so hostile. It dont matter what she says your gonna say opposite. Shes got some really good points and she aint afraid to say whats right and whats not. We need more folks like her around to get the truth out for us. Theres a lot of folks that dont know how the union works and cant stand up for themselfs because there afraid or dont know how to talk for themselfs. She aint been asking for nothing for herself shes been asking for US! And that lawsuit that Jerry and Rich got going was to protect our rights. You might not care about the rights of folks that was in unit 2 but Im sure glad that someone does. If they can walk all over our contract and our rights then whos next? What there doing might just protect YOUR job someday!

 

That is where you are wrong my friend. The things she does and says do nothing more than tarnish the reputation of our local and the company in the eyes of the public, which in case you didn't know, are our customers. Mary has no authority to be answering questions. She is not an elected official nor a member of the management team at OHAP. She is trying to mislead people into believing what she says. We have very capable elected officials in our local, who is she to constantly degrade them, especially after only a couple of months in office? She does this out of jealousy and spite. Mary wanted very badly to be elected, fortunately, only a very small percentage of the membership agreed with her tirades. Since you are obviously one of he followers, allow me to ask you this. Give me 1 thing that Mary has done for you to better your job security and future? What "questions" has she answered that you were not able to get answered by the people that were supposed to be answering them? She has No knowledge, nor does she have the ability to gain anymore knowledge about anything than you or I. She is trying to tell you people that she can do this that and the other for you, when she can't. She is nobody around there. Just another hourly person like the rest of us. What she is trying to do is bully you people around for the purpose of obtaining your vote in the upcoming convention. Do you really think that electing somebody to go to the convention and insult the international reps. is a good idea at this stage of the game? She is a loose cannon, always has been, and will embarass this local if sent to represent it at the convention. If you think for 1 second that the goings on in our plant and media are not being closely watched up north you are dead wrong. Do a little research of your own. When it was announced that Lorain was going to be closed, a group of civic and business leaders from this county went to Dearborn to try and offer proposals to save that facility. They were greeted by Ford executives who posessed copies of local newspapers bashing the company for different reasons and told that there would be no negotiations. Now, investigate a little further and you will find that many of the articles have quotes from the Donovan family. These people talk out of turn, and have no clue what they are saying, or when to shut up. This stuff is not helpful to this membership in the long run, is it? Can we afford to take the chances of joining Mary's crusade because she doesn't like anybody? I agreee, we need strong, dedicated leadership at both the local and international levels to take us into the future. Mary is the farthest thing from the answer we could possibly have. Backing her crusade will be a mistake that you someday regret, I promise you that. Find somebody that has solid negotiation skills, a good sense for the business world, the articulation to carry on and understand business planning and forecasting. Someone who will listen to and relay, accurately, the wants desires, and needs of the membership. Not someone who will tell you what it is you need and what is best for you. We are all grownups here. It is time we started acting like it. Your implication that Mary is standing up for those that are not capable of doing so themselves is childish. I think now, more than ever, is time for us all to standup for ourselves.

[Glory_dayzd]

Ima,

 

I've asked that question at our plant after seeing the same people walking around and going home for years, others getting mad after seeing it day after day. I was told we are all one. Then I wondered if we are all so-called one why they are not busting their ass on the line, or at least doing anything value-added. Never got an answer. I think it should not only be up to management, but to us too, to keep morale up and how we are percieved by this country. It's not good now. We fought for equal work for equal pay and for what. I truely bet that if we did get rid of all them, it would not only save alot of money, it would bring morale up. End result would be money saved, better workers from higher morale which would also end up with much better attendence. Resulting in higher quality cars and trucks, which not over night but over time would bring alot of demand. Just my .02.

I agree with everything you are saying, but people know what others think of them, in most cases. If that, or verbal peer pressure from co-workers does'nt impact, there is'nt anything else that can be done, other than complaining. Otherwise, one would be putting themselves at risk from zero tolerance. And to even suggest that someone might be sabatoging could be perilous. Meeting responsibilities is an indication of self-respect and maturity. It says "this is who I am". If we do not act according to our perceptions of ourselves, we have problems that our co-workers or our employers cannot resolve. But, it is our employers responsibility to address co-worker problems which impact our work envirionment.

Edited December 31, 2005 by Glory_dayzd

[truthshallset youfree]

Slapshot2 I dont know about none of that stuff you were talking about it just looks like your always picking on that little girl. Maybe you and her have some problems or something but Im takling about it from where I stand and she aint been nothing like that with me. She aint always bad mouthing the union. Shes called reps down when we needed them and she was able to get them when we couldnt (Nick G.) You just keep sounding like you got a hard on for this whole family and there aint nothing gonna change your mind. Im thinking you really dont know her that well. She was sticking up for those tpts when we had when no body else would. She always shows me what shes talking about in the contract. She aint steered me wrong yet. She talks to management real well in our plant. She dont cuss them out and shes helped a lot of us out with stuff like that. Ive been up front that I aint always supported Jerry but I gotta say I like Mary just because of how shes treated me. Im wondering what your gonna do if Jerry wins his case. If it turns out that hes been right all along are you gonna be a man and admit it? I told him straight up that I didnt vote for him in the past and now I was sorry for it because of us losing our unit or whatever. Sometimes you gotta admit you were wrong about someone or something. To bad theres a lot of us doing that now. And dont get me wrong I like Nick fine. Ive worked with him for a lot of years and we have been friends but business is business.

[Pumpmaster]

You want a straight answer to that question. Talk to your "liberal friends" who buy this foreign shit! You know what I'm talking about too! Or don't you... Look at last years election to get a hint... Kerry-Edwards stickers and all this enviromental left-wing shit on all those foreign cars!

 

If you can't decipher where I'm getting at... YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.

 

As usual, you didn't answer the question. Just keep ranting, RWN.

:rolleyes: