Oil change scam?

[Max_Focus]

So I took my "new" used F150 into the Mobil 1 Quick Lube place to have the oil changed since I have never had it changed since I bought it 700 miles ago and don't know the history with the previous owner. I was going to tackle it myself but when I went to buy the filter it called for two different styles depending on the fitting. Great. So I'll just let someone else do it this time.

 

Well, here's the scam. The owner's manual calls for 6 quarts of oil for the 4.6 V8 WITH a filter change. (This is an '04 non-heritage F150 4x4). So they pull out 7. I remind them that it only takes 6. And they put 6 in and then check the dipstick and add half a quart more. OK, since this was 5W20 Synthetic Blend, I have to pay for the whole quart at some outrageous price like $6.00 or so. So I tell the guy to throw what's left in the cab. He looks at me funny like I'm speaking Vulcanese or something. I said, "Hey, you're charging me for the 7th quart, I want what's left. I'll bring it back next time so you don't charge me again." He does but I'm still perplexed how a "full" oil change takes more than 6 quarts.

 

Here's my theory: They only put 9/10ths of each quart into the engine. After 6 quarts, you're about half a quart low. Gosh, that will require another bottle. Oh, and those bottles are already marked up about 200%. So my oil change ended up being $56. And that was after a $10 discount they were advertising on their marquee sign that they originally didn't want to give me because I was a "repeat" customer. (It didn't say "new customer discount" anywhere.)

 

I'm not sure if the dealer will honor their "$21.95 oil change" coupon if I bring this in and ask for 6 quarts of synthetic blend. My assumption is that it's usually a bait-and-switch tactic so why bother?

 

How many quarts above/below the owner's manual does everyone else put in their cars/trucks? (The obvious answer is "until it's full on the dipstick" but I'm looking for variances from the manual.)

[Ron W.]

You got ripped, only the 5.4L 3valve takes 7 quarts. FL820S @ $5.40 and 6 quarts of Motorcraft oil 5W20 synthetic blend @ $1.75 each comes to $15.90 for parts at our store, labor is $7.25 so total not including tax is $23.15. Sometimes the dealer is cheaper. Also if you look at your dipstick it no longer has a full mark but instead about an inch of crosshatch, the 6 quarts should put you in the middle of the crosshatch, filling it to the top of the crosshatch is not recommended.

[Max_Focus]

You got ripped, only the 5.4L 3valve takes 7 quarts. FL820S @ $5.40 and 6 quarts of Motorcraft oil 5W20 synthetic blend @ $1.75 each comes to $15.90 for parts at our store, labor is $7.25 so total not including tax is $23.15. Sometimes the dealer is cheaper. Also if you look at your dipstick it no longer has a full mark but instead about an inch of crosshatch, the 6 quarts should put you in the middle of the crosshatch, filling it to the top of the crosshatch is not recommended.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, my '06 Focus had its first oil change there too. Something like $55 for 6 quarts (even though it only takes 5.5 or so). I just didn't feel like doing either and the dealership is always a hassle no matter what you're having done. The "upsell" crap annoys me.

[F250]

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, my '06 Focus had its first oil change there too. Something like $55 for 6 quarts (even though it only takes 5.5 or so). I just didn't feel like doing either and the dealership is always a hassle no matter what you're having done. The "upsell" crap annoys me.

 

That "upsell" is their job.

Example: Some customers buy new cars, come in only for oil changes and at 20-25,000 miles their tires have uneven wear causing vibration or noise. The customer wants a new set of tires free "under warranty." When asked if they were ever rotated like the maintenance manual that came in the car recomends the customer claims they never read that crap and that it's the dealer service advisor's job to tell them it's needed. Then comes the victim act: "You know I would have done every maintenance you recomended for my car but you never told me it should be done." Yea, right. When informed it's not a waranty issue and that it's due to neglect the customer wants the dealer to replace the tires free. It happens all the time that's why most good advisors record in the computer or directly on the RO maintenance items that were recomended but declined by the customer, CYA.

 

Did you know if a service department misses a potential problem with any safety system, even if the vehicle wasn't in for a problem, they could be held legally liable if an accident occurs. Yes, it has happened. You would not believe how neglected some vehicles are, to the point of being unsafe.

 

It's simple. Just tell the service advisor you want only what Ford recomends in the maintenance book, or just an oil change and that's it.

[NickF1011]

The 4.6 in my Cobra "calls for" 6 quarts as well. I still end up putting about 6 1/4 in there. There's no big conspiracy here or anything. Just the way it is. Almost every car I've ever done an oil change on ends up taking a tad more oil than the specs call for. :shrug:

[oldracer]

The 2 different PN's for oil filters are for the 4.6 & 5.4....I don't know what is different, but my son-in-law's truck is a 5.4 and it had a dedicated PN..

 

Mobil 1 is a full synthetic oil...at Advance Auto parts it's about $5.50ish per Qt in the 6 pack...($33.00)

I buy a 6 pack at Sam's for $27.73.

 

Regular dinosaur juice is anywhere from $1.50 to $2 something/qt.

 

EVERY $21.95 oil chnage ad I've seen has a disclaimer that says some vehicles extra...and are NEVER

a Synthetic oil.

 

Engine oil to the engine = your blood to your body, no place to skimp or go cheap.....

[jrp1224]

So I took my "new" used F150 into the Mobil 1 Quick Lube place to have the oil changed since I have never had it changed since I bought it 700 miles ago and don't know the history with the previous owner. I was going to tackle it myself but when I went to buy the filter it called for two different styles depending on the fitting. Great. So I'll just let someone else do it this time.

 

Well, here's the scam. The owner's manual calls for 6 quarts of oil for the 4.6 V8 WITH a filter change. (This is an '04 non-heritage F150 4x4). So they pull out 7. I remind them that it only takes 6. And they put 6 in and then check the dipstick and add half a quart more. OK, since this was 5W20 Synthetic Blend, I have to pay for the whole quart at some outrageous price like $6.00 or so. So I tell the guy to throw what's left in the cab. He looks at me funny like I'm speaking Vulcanese or something. I said, "Hey, you're charging me for the 7th quart, I want what's left. I'll bring it back next time so you don't charge me again." He does but I'm still perplexed how a "full" oil change takes more than 6 quarts.

 

Here's my theory: They only put 9/10ths of each quart into the engine. After 6 quarts, you're about half a quart low. Gosh, that will require another bottle. Oh, and those bottles are already marked up about 200%. So my oil change ended up being $56. And that was after a $10 discount they were advertising on their marquee sign that they originally didn't want to give me because I was a "repeat" customer. (It didn't say "new customer discount" anywhere.)

 

I'm not sure if the dealer will honor their "$21.95 oil change" coupon if I bring this in and ask for 6 quarts of synthetic blend. My assumption is that it's usually a bait-and-switch tactic so why bother?

 

How many quarts above/below the owner's manual does everyone else put in their cars/trucks? (The obvious answer is "until it's full on the dipstick" but I'm looking for variances from the manual.)

 

 

So I took my "new" used F150 into the Mobil 1 Quick Lube place to have the oil changed since I have never had it changed since I bought it 700 miles ago and don't know the history with the previous owner. I was going to tackle it myself but when I went to buy the filter it called for two different styles depending on the fitting. Great. So I'll just let someone else do it this time.

 

Well, here's the scam. The owner's manual calls for 6 quarts of oil for the 4.6 V8 WITH a filter change. (This is an '04 non-heritage F150 4x4). So they pull out 7. I remind them that it only takes 6. And they put 6 in and then check the dipstick and add half a quart more. OK, since this was 5W20 Synthetic Blend, I have to pay for the whole quart at some outrageous price like $6.00 or so. So I tell the guy to throw what's left in the cab. He looks at me funny like I'm speaking Vulcanese or something. I said, "Hey, you're charging me for the 7th quart, I want what's left. I'll bring it back next time so you don't charge me again." He does but I'm still perplexed how a "full" oil change takes more than 6 quarts.

 

Here's my theory: They only put 9/10ths of each quart into the engine. After 6 quarts, you're about half a quart low. Gosh, that will require another bottle. Oh, and those bottles are already marked up about 200%. So my oil change ended up being $56. And that was after a $10 discount they were advertising on their marquee sign that they originally didn't want to give me because I was a "repeat" customer. (It didn't say "new customer discount" anywhere.)

 

I'm not sure if the dealer will honor their "$21.95 oil change" coupon if I bring this in and ask for 6 quarts of synthetic blend. My assumption is that it's usually a bait-and-switch tactic so why bother?

 

How many quarts above/below the owner's manual does everyone else put in their cars/trucks? (The obvious answer is "until it's full on the dipstick" but I'm looking for variances from the manual.)

 

 

FIRST OF ALL NEVER TAKE YOUR CAR TO A QUICK OIL CHANGE THEY ARE THE MOST EXSPENSIVE AND LEAST CAPABLE OF PROVIDING EVEN MARGINALLY GOOD SERVICE YOUR DEALERS QUICK LUBE IS USUALLY CHEAPER AND BETTER ALSO WALMART WILL CHANGE AND DO AN 18 POINT CHECK FOR 18.95 FOR REG OIL AND 39.95 FOR MOBIL ONE(THE BEST) TELL THEM NO FRAM FILTER

[scuzzi]

So I took my "new" used F150 into the Mobil 1 Quick Lube place to have the oil changed since I have never had it changed since I bought it 700 miles ago and don't know the history with the previous owner. I was going to tackle it myself but when I went to buy the filter it called for two different styles depending on the fitting. Great. So I'll just let someone else do it this time.

 

Well, here's the scam. The owner's manual calls for 6 quarts of oil for the 4.6 V8 WITH a filter change. (This is an '04 non-heritage F150 4x4). So they pull out 7. I remind them that it only takes 6. And they put 6 in and then check the dipstick and add half a quart more. OK, since this was 5W20 Synthetic Blend, I have to pay for the whole quart at some outrageous price like $6.00 or so. So I tell the guy to throw what's left in the cab. He looks at me funny like I'm speaking Vulcanese or something. I said, "Hey, you're charging me for the 7th quart, I want what's left. I'll bring it back next time so you don't charge me again." He does but I'm still perplexed how a "full" oil change takes more than 6 quarts.

 

Here's my theory: They only put 9/10ths of each quart into the engine. After 6 quarts, you're about half a quart low. Gosh, that will require another bottle. Oh, and those bottles are already marked up about 200%. So my oil change ended up being $56. And that was after a $10 discount they were advertising on their marquee sign that they originally didn't want to give me because I was a "repeat" customer. (It didn't say "new customer discount" anywhere.)

 

I'm not sure if the dealer will honor their "$21.95 oil change" coupon if I bring this in and ask for 6 quarts of synthetic blend. My assumption is that it's usually a bait-and-switch tactic so why bother?

 

How many quarts above/below the owner's manual does everyone else put in their cars/trucks? (The obvious answer is "until it's full on the dipstick" but I'm looking for variances from the manual.)

 

The reason it takes more oil... because of the oil filter. You see, the filter holds about 1/2 a litre of oil. When they remove the oil, there is oil in the filter, when they put in the new filter, its dry. The engine holds its 6 litres, but then the filter holds 1/2 a litre. So the vehicle needs another 1/2 litre to fill it up. Did oil changes at an old job and I learned that there.

[YT90SC]

Sorry guys I gotta respectfully disagree. You should never fill to the top of the crosshatch. The number of quarts specified is the number you should put in. The best fill is usually half to 3/4's up the stick. The reason is this: what if the stick is wrong? The stick is a very crude measure of the oil level, if truth be told. OFTEN they are wrong from the factory, let alone if the stick has been swapped... THe truth is IF you over fill, the crank might not be able to shed its oil, especially if the pan has a built in windage tray or a scraper. IF you keep filling, the crank actually can hit the oil. Either condition can lead to oil aireation (sp?), which can lead to loss of oil pressure and engine damage or poor running in HEUI type diesels. Too much splash can cause excess oil usage because it can flood the cylinder walls and the oil control rings can't stay in front of it. It can even cause a rough feeling to the engine as the crank (or counterbalance on 4.0l's) hits the oil it makes a vibration. Not shedding the oil adds weight to the crank which can cause engine imbalance or make it feel sluggish. (remember racers add scrapers and windage trays to rid the crank of excess oil) Then let's add the price of extra oil, which is what started this thread in the first place....

Edited October 3, 2006 by YT90SC

[Tiberius1701]

Sorry guys I gotta respectfully disagree. You should never fill to the top of the crosshatch. The number of quarts specified is the number you should put in. The best fill is usually half to 3/4's up the stick. The reason is this: what if the stick is wrong? The stick is a very crude measure of the oil level, if truth be told. OFTEN they are wrong from the factory, let alone if the stick has been swapped... THe truth is IF you over fill, the crank might not be able to shed its oil, especially if the pan has a built in windage tray or a scraper. IF you keep filling, the crank actually can hit the oil. Either condition can lead to oil aireation (sp?), which can lead to loss of oil pressure and engine damage or poor running in HEUI type diesels. Too much splash can cause excess oil usage because it can flood the cylinder walls and the oil control rings can't stay in front of it. It can even cause a rough feeling to the engine as the crank (or counterbalance on 4.0l's) hits the oil it makes a vibration. Not shedding the oil adds weight to the crank which can cause engine imbalance or make it feel sluggish. (remember racers add scrapers and windage trays to rid the crank of excess oil) Then let's add the price of extra oil, which is what started this thread in the first place....

 

 

Correct! Actually around 1/2 way up the cross hatch is "full".

At my store we get $28.95 plus tax for a full service LOF-includes 5 qts Synthetic blend oil, add $2.00 for each additional quart of oil.

Edited October 3, 2006 by Tiberius1701

[iluvford]

I had a 99 Mercury Sable 3.0 DOHC and that car took 5.5 quarts. I would always ask for the .5 litre left, and they never really cared.

 

I now take my 05 F-150 to the dealer. I can get an oil change there fore 15.95 (with coupon).

 

Go to: http://www.genuineservice.com/genuineservi...fault?page=Home

 

and search under your zip code, that will take you to the dealer website and you can find the coupons there. :happy feet:

[matthewq4b]

I have never taken any thing in to the dealer or any where else for an oil change. The simple reason is none of them fill the oil filter befor installing it. Rember when you crank up an engine after replacing the filter it is running dry until the filter is filled up then it will circulated through the engine. It can take up to 5 or 6 seconds to get oil pressure in some cases after an oil change. And your running that engine with no oil pressure for that time. Multiply that by the number of oil changes over the life of a car and you could be running it dry for minuits. And you wonder some people burn out bearings. Change the oil hop in then gun it. Bye bye bearing overlay.

 

It takes time to fill the filter and soak the media inside. Some thing dealers or quick lube places do not have time for.

 

If you do have a car where the filter is mounted at 90 degrees and not practical to fill then the next best thing is crank the engine over with a starter by pass switch or disable the ignition until you get oil pressure. Even if you can fill the filter this is a good thing to do. Then you can fire it up.

 

This is part of the reason I got more than 600K miles on the 4.6 in the GM.

The car was parked cause the tranny bit it. The engine is still good and it consumed only about a liter between changes and that is only because the valve seals are shot.

 

Matthew

[kenp77]

You obviously have never worked on a ford 5.4, no way to put any oil in the filter in any quantity and I don't know how to disable it so it won't start am sure a ford tech could tell ya but most people don't have a clue :shrug:

[F250]

You obviously have never worked on a ford 5.4, no way to put any oil in the filter in any quantity and I don't know how to disable it so it won't start am sure a ford tech could tell ya but most people don't have a clue :shrug:

 

I have owned 2 (see signature) the F-250 came with a remote mount that located the engine oil filter at the rear left side of the engine and the filter screwed straight up so it could be very easily filled before installation. The F-150 does not have the remote mount and screws on at an angle at the left front of the engine. I still fill it before installation because the silicone anti-drain back membrane in the FL-820S filter keeps the oil inside at the angle it is installed. You just have to use care to hold the filter upright while maneuvering it to it's mount.

[matthewq4b]

You obviously have never worked on a ford 5.4, no way to put any oil in the filter in any quantity and I don't know how to disable it so it won't start am sure a ford tech could tell ya but most people don't have a clue :shrug:

 

Find your fuel pump inertia cut out switch, (location shown in owners manual) give it a smack to trip it then wind the engine over, when you have oil pressure just reset it, Simple as that. Or you can pull the fuel pump relay (location shown in under hood fuse block), plus there are several individual fuses if pulled will stop the engine from fireing. There are many ways to keep the engine from firing all it takes is a little research.

 

 

Matthew

[jd87]

What difference does it make whether the engine is firing or not? If you're turning the motor over it's going to be dry until the filter is filled and it's circulating everywhere again. whether there's spark/fuel or not isn't going to make a difference.

[kenp77]

I have owned 2 (see signature) the F-250 came with a remote mount that located the engine oil filter at the rear left side of the engine and the filter screwed straight up so it could be very easily filled before installation. The F-150 does not have the remote mount and screws on at an angle at the left front of the engine. I still fill it before installation because the silicone anti-drain back membrane in the FL-820S filter keeps the oil inside at the angle it is installed. You just have to use care to hold the filter upright while maneuvering it to it's mount.

OK I understand everything you say except if you fill it all the way up, when you finaly have to tip it up to thread it on what keeps oil from running out the big hole it sure isn't the anti drain back membrane???

[matthewq4b]

What difference does it make whether the engine is firing or not? If you're turning the motor over it's going to be dry until the filter is filled and it's circulating everywhere again. whether there's spark/fuel or not isn't going to make a difference.

 

 

It makes a huge differance. There is no load on the bearings to speak of. You are not loading the mains and the only load on the rod bearings is what it takes to move the pistons in thier bore.

 

Think about it how long could you turn over an engine on the starter with no oil pressure befor severe engine damage resulted? That time frame would be measured in hours proboly. Run an engine with no oil pressure and the it is literally seconds befor severe damage results.

 

If you can not fill oil filter, disable either the fule pump or ignition and crank it over on the starter till you get pressure. Just remeber to never to crank it over for more than 30 secands at shot. So you do not over heat the starter motor, not as much of an issue with the new gear reduction starters compared to the old direct drive units but should still be heeded.

 

There are reasons why I have got over 600K miles outta the the original motor in my 92 GM and that thing seen service as severe as any PI unit.

 

There are tricks to increasing the longevity of your engine and not starting an engine on a dry oil fliter is a big one.

 

 

 

Matthew

[mikedc3]

Filling a filter before installing does nothing and is a waste of time. There is plenty of oil left on the bearings to lube them for a few seconds. This is nothing more than an old wifes tail. Not to mention when you fill your filter, your putting unfiltered oil into the "post filter" side of the filter.

[F250]

Filling a filter before installing does nothing and is a waste of time. There is plenty of oil left on the bearings to lube them for a few seconds. This is nothing more than an old wifes tail. Not to mention when you fill your filter, your putting unfiltered oil into the "post filter" side of the filter.

 

On older engines especially you can hear the difference, that rattle noise when the engine is first started after a dry filter oil change is the metal-to-metal contact and wear occuring on the rod and main bearings. The bearing clearance is held with pressure of which there is none until the pump fills the empty filter then that air pocket is moved all the way out of the system. Starting an engine dry and running a few seconds with zero oil pressure is hard on the bearings. When you first start the engine the ECU runs it up to about 1000 RPM before droping to idle around 700 RPM so that's about 13-14 revolutions (per second) times what, about 4 seconds of zero oil pressure while the empty filter fills, or 50-60 dry revolutions. I think I'll keep taking a few seconds to pre-fill that filter.

 

And that unfiltered oil is brand new straight from the bottle so it's as clean as it's ever going to get.

[Ron W.]

Having done a boatload of oil changes in my 33 years in the automotive industry I can tell for sure that it is not an old wives tale. Any engine that has the oil filter attach in a vertical (threads straight up) position should have the filter filled as a part of the oil change before start up.

[kenp77]

Having done a boatload of oil changes in my 33 years in the automotive industry I can tell for sure that it is not an old wives tale. Any engine that has the oil filter attach in a vertical (threads straight up) position should have the filter filled as a part of the oil change before start up.

Ron: Do you have any suggestions for my 04 5.4 3V it kills me to hear it hammer until filter is full but the filter lays on it's side how do you do it?????