Joe771476 Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 To use Mazda's tag line! But really, I didn't know anything about it until I just saw the paper ad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 To use Mazda's tag line! But really, I didn't know anything about it until I just saw the paper ad. take Durango, add grooved frille - voila - you have aspen - it is really shameful what DCX is doing these days. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) take Durango, add grooved frille - voila - you have aspen - it is really shameful what DCX is doing these days. Igor You mean just like how the Mountaineer is really a Ford Explorer with a grooved grill? In fact, Edmunds.com explains it THIS way: "Mercury disguises its Ford Explorer clone, the Mountaineer, with an edgier front fascia." Shameful! B) Seriously though, a Chrysler Aspen isn't shameful: A DODGE Aspen IS shameful: -Ovaltine Edited September 20, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Well, the Mountaineer is, gee, almost 10 years old? Why would you START something that stupid, this late in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebritt Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Well, the Mountaineer is, gee, almost 10 years old? Why would you START something that stupid, this late in the game. I think it looks much better than the current Durango(which they totaly screwed up by the way). It is pretty formal looking and the interior looks pretty nice. If the had a MB drivetrain it would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius1701 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 As Pete DeLorenzo (Autoextremist.com) sez:"The Answer to the Question that Absolutely No One is Asking" 'nuff said.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) Well, the Mountaineer is, gee, almost 10 years old? Why would you START something that stupid, this late in the game. For the same reason that GM just dumped a buttload of money in to the Tahoe, Escalade, etc., and why Ford just poured major money into a revamped the Expedition and Navigator. Most likely all these gas sucking turds were on the drawing board long before the gas price jump, and were too far ahead in production to cancel outright. Also, another way to look at Chrysler's efforts is this: There are probably a lot of snooty people who equate 'Dodge' to lunchbucket types, and refuse to be seen in one. The rednecks shouting out 'DOES IT GOT A HEMI?' only reinforces that stereotype. But..... slap on a new grill, give it a Town & Country-like persona, and now you might be talking 10,20,30k more annual sales off of the same production line? Sales figures will be the final proof, but for what appears to be a minor investment, Chrysler dealers now have another model in their stable to keep the people who still want/need an SUV from leaving the showroom. Time will tell. Btw, the Jeep Commander is a MUCH better example of a truly new body style vehicle that was unneeded. It fits DeLorenzo's comments much better. Who needs a Jeep Grand Wagoneer chassis with a bloated Jeep Cherokee body on it when there's already a Jeep Grand Wagoneer in the stable? :shrug: The Aspen however, truly adds a "new" vehicle to Chrysler's lineup. And you can bet that the tooling costs for the Aspen's few different trim bits were a LOT cheaper than the Commander's unique body and interior. -Ovaltine Edited September 20, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Umm I think your missing the point. If I'm not mistaken Richard pointed out the age of the Mountaineer to clarify its exsistence, a vehicle launched in the mid 90s to cash in on the SUV craze. The Aspen arrives in '07 as a bad engineered sibling to the Durango. Big F'n deal. Yes, we all realize what the Moutaineer is, but it's not like it was something that was recently introduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Umm I think your missing the point. If I'm not mistaken Richard pointed out the age of the Mountaineer to clarify its exsistence, a vehicle launched in the mid 90s to cash in on the SUV craze. The Aspen arrives in '07 as a bad engineered sibling to the Durango. Big F'n deal. Yes, we all realize what the Moutaineer is, but it's not like it was something that was recently introduced. spot on - Staying on a wrong course is much less idiotic than seeing that the course is wrong from the sideline, and jumping in for the ride. inertia is stupid - do not get me wrong - but it is by far surpassed by the will to actively hurt oneself. Igor Ovaltine ... BADGE ENGINEERING and REBADGE are 2 different things: Explorer: Mountaineer: Aspen: Durango: the first is badge engineering - the latter is a rebadge. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 take Durango, add grooved frille - voila - you have aspen - it is really shameful what DCX is doing these days. Igor I agree its shamefull, but being on a Ford Fan site no one here really has the right to talk considering this was fords method for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I agree its shamefull, but being on a Ford Fan site no one here really has the right to talk considering this was fords method for decades. true that .. but you still have to wonder - with alll the slack GM and FOrd have been getting for rebadges and even badge engineering - why join the shameful party now .. and not even with a badge engineered vehicle - but straight with a direct rebadge? wait for the Nitro/Liberty to continue the rebadge party at DCX. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgey Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) Mercury is nothing but a handful of Aspen like conversions, why does anybody from the Ford camp have the right to gloat? From Milan to Mariner to Montego to Mountaineer to Grand Marquis...new and old...it's the same tactic used for decades over at Lincoln/Mercury. The MKS is the first car since the Lincoln LS to have a totally original design. Ford has no less than TWO badge engineered brands. Not even GM does that anymore. Edited September 20, 2006 by Edgey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Only stand alone Chrysler dealers asked for the big SUV, and I bet not the name. It's the old 'give our X dealers the same as our Y dealers" thinking. Also, they need to justify the lone Durango plant in Deleware. Bet it will close due to over supply. Next will be a Chrysler Coronet pick-up?? Or a Dart SUV version of the Nitro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) Ovaltine ... BADGE ENGINEERING and REBADGE are 2 different things: Explorer: Mountaineer: Aspen: Durango: the first is badge engineering - the latter is a rebadge. Igor Same difference. Wikipedia's entry for 'rebadge' has the unique mini-definition shown below when Googling the term 'rebadge', but then the shown link takes you to the 'badge engineering' page. In world of Igorpedia, how would YOU differentiate between these two, and why is one better/worse than the other???? -Ovaltine Badge engineering From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badge_engineering Badge engineering is a term that describes the rebadging of one model of car as another. This often occurs when two companies pool resources by operating a joint venture or merging their operations. While originally, differences were confined to the badges used on the model, more typically it involves slight styling differences, usually with different headlights and rear lights. The term derives from the pot metal trademark emblems fastened onto the outside of the car, or onto the dashboard (fascia). It also occurs when an individual manufacturer, such as General Motors, owns a portfolio of different brands, and markets the same car under a different brand in different territories. Language problems can also mean that a car has to be given a different name in a certain country (for example, the Mitsubishi Pajero is called the Montero in Spanish-speaking countries and North America and the Shogun in the UK), although this may not constitute badge engineering, as the car is still sold under the same brand name. Anecdotally, pajero is a colloquialism for masturbation in Spanish. As it is often extremely expensive to establish a new brand, and can take many years for it to gain acceptance, it is often more cost effective to rebadge a product under an existing name. For example, cars built by Daewoo, now owned by General Motors, are now only badged as Daewoos in South Korea and Vietnam. In other markets, they are now badged as Chevrolets. Similarly, in Australia and New Zealand, where Daewoo was unsuccessful, they are now rebadged as Holden models. Conversely, badge engineering occurs with luxury models. Japanese brands found it difficult to shrug off their 'cheap and cheerful' image in North America when luxury models started appearing in the 1990s. So Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Mazda started Acura, Lexus, Infiniti and Eunos respectively. Each new badge adding prestige values that would not be possible without shifting their core brand values of the parent brand. In most Asian countries, Toyota was already a luxury brand, so the Lexus brand was not marketed there. However Lexus has been so successful as a prestige badge engineering exercise that Toyota are now marketing the brand in their native Japan. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebadge Rebadging is when a company takes a product from another manufacturer or division, and puts their own name on it and sells it. The product will sometimes have minor (often cosmetic) changes. For example, the Chevrolet Aveo is a rebadged Daewoo. Also see badge engineering. Edited September 20, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I know it is kind of hard to tell from the pictures, but you do realize that the Aspen and the Durango share NO body panels except the front doors? (Look at the fender flares, the taillight shapes, etc...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) Mercury has had many re-badge jobs in its 67 years of business. But, the simple grille/tail change is not enough. The Maverick based Comet and the sub compact Bobcat and Lynx were true clones. The first gen 1988-90 Tracer at least tried to be different. Then it was just an Escort, 1991-99. Anyway, back to Chrysler, with DCX now encouraging merged Dodge/Chrysler dealers, how can they justify the clones? Edited September 20, 2006 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I swear sometimes it really is like beating a dead horse around here. I mean really who said Ford was entirely innocent from a badge engineering stand point? Who? You people can be so f'n redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebritt Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Mercury has had many re-badge jobs in its 67 years of business. But, the simple grille/tail change is not enough. The Maverick based Comet and the sub compact Bobcat and Lynx were true clones. The first gen 1988-90 Tracer at least tried to be different. Then it was just an Escort, 1991-99. Anyway, back to Chrysler, with DCX now encouraging merged Dodge/Chrysler dealers, how can they justify the clones? I had an 88 Tracer, 315,000 miles and 35 miles per gallon. I drove it till the wheels fell off, put 'em back on and drove it some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) Anyway, back to Chrysler, with DCX now encouraging merged Dodge/Chrysler dealers, how can they justify the clones? Easy. Aspen buyers will be wearing the sideways ball caps and gold chains, and wanting something with more *BLING* appeal. Didn't you ever see the ads with Lido and Snoop Dogg? B) Potential Aspen Purchasers: Potential Durango Purchasers: Does THAT make it any clearer? -Ovaltine Edited September 20, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Easy. Aspen buyers will be wearing the sideways ball caps and gold chains, and wanting something with more *BLING* appeal. Didn't you ever see the ads with Lido and Snoop Dogg? B) Potential Aspen Purchasers: Potential Durango Purchasers: Does THAT make it any clearer? -Ovaltine No, because the Aspen has no more bling appeal than the Durango. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Chrysler may sell 20k of these things. The first year. And then (nothing) Nobody wants to even think about a new luxury SUV. Heck, the Mountaineer, Explorer, Expedition, and Navigator are probably going to shuffle along primarily on replacement volume, by core users. How do you get replacement volume from a brand new product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 Yes, they could have picked a better name; Aspen conjures up junk in my mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68Cougar Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 (edited) Considering Chrysler is paired with Jeep in most markets, this seems like a really bad idea. Does this mean they are going to bring the Volare name back too? :D Edited September 22, 2006 by 68Cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 (edited) Does this mean they are going to bring the Volare name back too? :D All I can say is IF they do resurrect the Volare name, it better be HALF as tough as this '76 that a bunch of Alabama hicks beat the *snot* out of. This quote about the Volare says it all: "Just proves how durable cars once were. Try that with one of today's cars and it will last all of ten seconds.... Slant 6 will never stop!" 1976 Plymouth Mud-riding in Alabama Part 1 Eleanor, a 1976 Plymouth Volare, off-road in Alabama somewhere. The 4 of us threw in $50 a piece and bought the car just for this. -Ovaltine Edited September 23, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Guys. The Aspen is soooooooooooooo dead. Know what the slogan for the Aspen is on the Chrysler website? "Decadence Without the Shame" WHO is going to buy into that message? And don't forget to click the Dr. Z link. I used to think Ford had some of the worst advertisements in the industry.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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