UAW members interested in POLITICAL solution, read this

[Imawhosure]

Last evening on the early network news with Katie Couric, Barouk Obama (did I spell that correctly) put forth an intriguing solution to the domestic automakers woes.

 

It went something like this------------->We need to decrease our dependance on foreign oil as it is costing OUR manufacturers jobs. In the interest of national security, we should offer our auto builders a deal. If they sign on to raise CAFE across the board, we should help finance it by offering to PAY THEIR RETIREES HEALTHCARE COSTS!!!!!!

 

Brothers and sisters, it is highly unlikely Mr. Obama was just shooting from the hip on this one. No my friends, it is MORE likely that his party had something to do with his delivering of this idea.

 

From our perspective, let us look at what that idea actually would do------------>level the playing field extensively, and without discrimination to our foreign competitors on our shores. I mean, just as it is not THEIR fault they have no retirees so we are screwed, it is not OUR fault that they do not, therefore get no government help with them for signing on to increase CAFE standards.

 

Excellent circumvention of cutting out automakers NOT in trouble, and helping those who actually need it!!!!

 

I personally would like to meet the man or woman who managed to think "out of the box" enough to figure a way to do this!!!!!

 

Anyway, the point is..........we should investigate this idea, who is for or against it, and regardless of party affiliation, INSURE WE CAST OUR VOTE FOR THEM!!!!!!

 

You see, they have actually devised a way to help..........without looking as if they are helping..........while giving credence to lowering our need for foreign oil.

 

May I suggest that even if it might be distasteful to some to vote repub or dem, whomever sees this as a stellar idea has actually decided to TRY and save SOME of our manufacturing base, and anyone who sees that as bad as far as I am concerned, is elitist.

 

Not to mention---------->anyone who has the political moxie to devise such a thing and still look golden, is not STUPID!!!!! We have enough STUPID politicians wrangling, time to get some smart ones.

 

Check with your politicians, and any info you get, please keep all of us informed!

[Xerxes12]

Last evening on the early network news with Katie Couric, Barouk Obama (did I spell that correctly) put forth an intriguing solution to the domestic automakers woes.

 

It went something like this------------->We need to decrease our dependance on foreign oil as it is costing OUR manufacturers jobs. In the interest of national security, we should offer our auto builders a deal. If they sign on to raise CAFE across the board, we should help finance it by offering to PAY THEIR RETIREES HEALTHCARE COSTS!!!!!!

 

Brothers and sisters, it is highly unlikely Mr. Obama was just shooting from the hip on this one. No my friends, it is MORE likely that his party had something to do with his delivering of this idea.

 

From our perspective, let us look at what that idea actually would do------------>level the playing field extensively, and without discrimination to our foreign competitors on our shores. I mean, just as it is not THEIR fault they have no retirees so we are screwed, it is not OUR fault that they do not, therefore get no government help with them for signing on to increase CAFE standards.

 

Excellent circumvention of cutting out automakers NOT in trouble, and helping those who actually need it!!!!

 

I personally would like to meet the man or woman who managed to think "out of the box" enough to figure a way to do this!!!!!

 

Anyway, the point is..........we should investigate this idea, who is for or against it, and regardless of party affiliation, INSURE WE CAST OUR VOTE FOR THEM!!!!!!

 

You see, they have actually devised a way to help..........without looking as if they are helping..........while giving credence to lowering our need for foreign oil.

 

May I suggest that even if it might be distasteful to some to vote repub or dem, whomever sees this as a stellar idea has actually decided to TRY and save SOME of our manufacturing base, and anyone who sees that as bad as far as I am concerned, is elitist.

 

Not to mention---------->anyone who has the political moxie to devise such a thing and still look golden, is not STUPID!!!!! We have enough STUPID politicians wrangling, time to get some smart ones.

 

Check with your politicians, and any info you get, please keep all of us informed!

Excellent idea but we will have to wait until after the elections to see if we have a Democratic majority. ( incidentally it's Barack Obama) :cheerleader:

Edited October 14, 2006 by Xerxes12

[fmccap]

If you want to see the video,

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/ma...tml?id=2089476n

[chicagosvoice]

I am neither a republican or democrat but I seem to think that Mr. Obama is one of the smartest people we have in government. I think it is a great idea. Any way to screw the oil cartel is fine with me.

[DSenstad]

Either he is very smart, or his people are very smart. I read this as the fist step toward national healthcare which would really level the playing field. By doing this we will see if a national healthcare might work on a small trail basis without jumping in head first... very smart.

[methos]

Last evening on the early network news with Katie Couric, Barouk Obama (did I spell that correctly) put forth an intriguing solution to the domestic automakers woes.

 

It went something like this------------->We need to decrease our dependance on foreign oil as it is costing OUR manufacturers jobs. In the interest of national security, we should offer our auto builders a deal. If they sign on to raise CAFE across the board, we should help finance it by offering to PAY THEIR RETIREES HEALTHCARE COSTS!!!!!!

 

Brothers and sisters, it is highly unlikely Mr. Obama was just shooting from the hip on this one. No my friends, it is MORE likely that his party had something to do with his delivering of this idea.

 

From our perspective, let us look at what that idea actually would do------------>level the playing field extensively, and without discrimination to our foreign competitors on our shores. I mean, just as it is not THEIR fault they have no retirees so we are screwed, it is not OUR fault that they do not, therefore get no government help with them for signing on to increase CAFE standards.

 

Excellent circumvention of cutting out automakers NOT in trouble, and helping those who actually need it!!!!

 

I personally would like to meet the man or woman who managed to think "out of the box" enough to figure a way to do this!!!!!

 

Anyway, the point is..........we should investigate this idea, who is for or against it, and regardless of party affiliation, INSURE WE CAST OUR VOTE FOR THEM!!!!!!

 

You see, they have actually devised a way to help..........without looking as if they are helping..........while giving credence to lowering our need for foreign oil.

 

May I suggest that even if it might be distasteful to some to vote repub or dem, whomever sees this as a stellar idea has actually decided to TRY and save SOME of our manufacturing base, and anyone who sees that as bad as far as I am concerned, is elitist.

 

Not to mention---------->anyone who has the political moxie to devise such a thing and still look golden, is not STUPID!!!!! We have enough STUPID politicians wrangling, time to get some smart ones.

 

Check with your politicians, and any info you get, please keep all of us informed!

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree!!

 

Here is some more links -

 

http://www.umich.edu/news/index.html?Relea.../Nov05/r112305a

 

http://obama.senate.gov/news/060521-former...ness/index.html

 

http://www.uaw.org/events/cvn34/news/0613_4.cfm

[udontkno]

There are too many blue collars working at Ford that think they are somehow in the upper 1% of income and would never vote for a Dem., as soon as the big three go out of business and they dont have a union fighting for their benefits and pay, will they soon realize that they are just screwed. Even though the Dem. dont always vote for the working people, they are still the best political friend the working man could have. Until working people get together and start giving a dam about working Americans (by buying American made products and avoiding companys that treat their workers wrong) we wont have a all out push for labor by our politicians. As of now we dont have any Americans looking out for us while we loose our jobs and when it happens to them, their going to ask for help and wonder why nobody cares.

[methos]

There are too many blue collars working at Ford that think they are somehow in the upper 1% of income and would never vote for a Dem., as soon as the big three go out of business and they dont have a union fighting for their benefits and pay, will they soon realize that they are just screwed. Even though the Dem. dont always vote for the working people, they are still the best political friend the working man could have. Until working people get together and start giving a dam about working Americans (by buying American made products and avoiding companys that treat their workers wrong) we wont have a all out push for labor by our politicians. As of now we dont have any Americans looking out for us while we loose our jobs and when it happens to them, their going to ask for help and wonder why nobody cares.

 

 

Good points - I agree. You cannot expect anyone to help us until we start helping ourselves. There is little doubt in my mind that Ford's is going down the drain. There is only three things that can change or stop this from occurring; several up ticks in consumer spending, which we have very little control of; a vastly improved process for designing and building vehicles, again, which we have very little control; finally a political solution, in which we have more control of the last one, than the previous two.

 

Let me explain myself, quality of the vehicles and the quality of the design is the direct result of the quality of the "process". As non-managers, we have little if any control over that "process"; therefore, we can do little to effect change. They can put all the signs up they want and tout quality, but until they look at the "process" itself, quality means nothing. Sure, we can catch a small percentage through inspection, but that is simply not enough.

 

As far as the politicians, it really is surprising in how few people vote. You would be surprised in how a few hundred thousand people not only voting on this issue, but also, getting family and friends to vote as well CAN make a difference In other words, VOTE, get others to vote, become at least somewhat knowledgeable on the issues.

 

Even more importantly, you need to write your representatives, because we all know this is not a true democracy, but a representative democracy, and if you are not in contact with your reps, you are not being represented, period.

[Imawhosure]

Methos,

 

After reading the links you provided; especially the first one, this idea becomes even more intriguing. It is obvious that Washington has taken note, and eventhough it also includes something they can hang their hat on, the plan seems excellent.

 

It is truelly gratifying that the money would be targeted by FAIR policy, at those companys in need the most. I also agree it is a, "win-win!"

 

But let me also say this----------------->Our offshore friends who have the advantage, will not sit idly by and watch their "economic abberation" get legislated away without a fight. Rest assure, as this idea gets more press, and economists chime in to favor it as an all around reasonable solution, the spin meisters in Japan will be formulating ways to tell a different saga.....................one that will surely be insulting in nature to union workers, and the companys we toil for.

 

I do not have the honor of voting in Illinois for Mr Obama or the co-author of this bill in Washington, since I live in Indiana. But I will take time to write MY representatives in Indiana, and see who is willing to take a commitment of, "yay, or nay."

 

Any politician who is worth their salt, knows of the disparity between what has to be paid out by manufacturers due to the length of time they have been in this country.

 

If they can not see their way clear in any form when the opportunity arises, to save those that made this country great by legislating away the disparity; regardless of party, they will NOT GET MY VOTE!!!!

 

Once more, I will talk to everyone I know personally, and see if through personal pursuasion and explanation of facts in evidence, that at least this time---------------------->we save what we have, and vote those who would give it away OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

P.S. Does anyone know who managed to THINK UP this legislation? Not who is authoring it, but the person who ACTUALLY DEVISED A WAY to give legally to those in need, while managing to cut out those who don't?

 

We need to find this person, just for their ability to come up with solutions where money is targeted without giving it up in a blanket.

 

Whomever it was, GOOD JOB, and please, continue on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited October 15, 2006 by Imawhosure

[PROLETARIAN]

I am neither a republican or democrat but I seem to think that Mr. Obama is one of the smartest people we have in government. I think it is a great idea. Any way to screw the oil cartel is fine with me.

 

 

THE oil cartel STARTS in texas.

[chicagosvoice]

THE oil cartel STARTS in texas.

 

Actually the oil cartel starts in Saudi Arabia and ends in Texas.

[mettech]

I will vote for anyone (State and Federal) if they support;

 

No new taxes for anyone.

No increase of current taxes for anyone.

Programs that reduce our oil usage.

Reduce the Federal defect by reducing ALL programs by X%(agin, no tax increase of any type)

[mettech]

There are too many blue collars working at Ford that think they are somehow in the upper 1% of income and would never vote for a Dem., as soon as the big three go out of business and they dont have a union fighting for their benefits and pay, will they soon realize that they are just screwed. Even though the Dem. dont always vote for the working people, they are still the best political friend the working man could have. Until working people get together and start giving a dam about working Americans (by buying American made products and avoiding companys that treat their workers wrong) we wont have a all out push for labor by our politicians. As of now we dont have any Americans looking out for us while we loose our jobs and when it happens to them, their going to ask for help and wonder why nobody cares.

 

Upper 1% of income? :blah: What does that mean? The Dems lost the Congress because more women and minorities are voting Republican……..

 

upper 1% of income………..UAW people make more than I do with 24 years in the military…..upper 1% of income…… You don’t even know who the real Republicans are do you…

 

FYI. Lincoln was a Republican.

[xr7g428]

I am from the government and I am here to help you... Happy Halloween! You should be scared.

 

Be very careful what you ask for...

 

The benefits of the retirees must be honored. This is an expensive obligation made by Ford and GM. It is not an obligation made by the taxpayers.

 

It is very unlikely that the taxpayers will be happy funding the retirees in a health care program that is more generous than the one that they have personally. I think that the healthcare coverage that the taxpayers, and hence the government, would provide will be much less attractive than what the retirees enjoy now.

 

There are two distinct components to the health care cost debate at Ford and GM. First there is the coverage provided to active employees. It is simply the best coverage, at the lowest employee cost, available in the US. This coverage is the envy of every working American. As such, it is a very expensive component of the total compensation of auto workers. Keep in mind, when ever we are talking about the cost of labor, we are also talking compensation.

 

The second component of the health care debate is the cost of providing health care to the retirees. This is that $600 to $1500 per car number that gets thrown around all of the time. This number is deceptive in that it is not a function of anything other than the number of retirees, and the benefit that has been promised.

 

So how did we get into this mess? The current health care benefits were the product of the strike in '67. At the time, it seemed like a good idea for every one involved. For the workers, the benefit was not taxed, for the company, healthy workers with healthy families promised a stable productive work force. At the time, no one ever imagined that health care, or the cost of the benefit would ever be as expensive as it is today. If you had a heart attack, generally you died. If you got cancer, you died. Premature babies died. It was almost impossible to spend a million dollars on care because a lot of the miracles we take for granted today did not exist. We live much longer, in a much better world, in large part because insurance put the money into health care that would make these miracles economically possible. The only problem was that the estimates of future costs were not even close to reality.

 

The carrot being dangled in front of us is that the retiree benefits will be picked up by the government. If this were the case, it would eliminate a big chunk of expense for Ford, and GM. So far, so good, except for the taxpayers who would have to pay the bill, and the retirees who would see their benefits reduced. But at least Ford and GM might be around to make good on the rest of the pension benefits.

 

Dsenstad is correct in his assessment that this is a first step to a US government state operated health care system. This is where the situation gets tricky. So the idea is that a national system would include every body. By getting every one covered, there would be no need to overcharge the insured to cover the cost of treating the uninsured. Sounds good so far, except, where does the money to cover the uninsured come from?

 

The problem with the current system is that there are many people who do not have health insurance. Currently this group consists primarily of working people who are offered insurance, but chose not to participate. They would rather keep the money and take their chances. The other large group are the self employed or those who work for small companies that do not offer insurance. For them, insurance is very expensive. First, they do not have the benefit of buying as part of a group, and second, they are paying with after tax dollars. As important as insurance is, they have already made the decision not to spend their money on insurance. They would, however, like to spend other peoples money on their insurance.

 

The bottom layer of society is already insured, as well as the elderly with medicare and medicaid and many other programs. You are already paying these premiums, see the FICA section of your check. National health care will not effect these people.

 

So if you already have insurance, how does this effect you? The money for insuring every one will not fall from the sky. The only way to pay for those not currently covered, is to take from those who currently are. This is where the real leveling of the playing field comes into play.

 

Keep your eye on the ball. The goal is to get Ford and GM strong enough to meet the obligations they have made.

 

So the way to fix Ford and GM is to raise the Corporate Average Fuel Economy rating?

 

Heck this is easy, just get rid of all of the SUV's and Trucks and Mustang GT's and Crown Vics....

 

We have covered this so many times. The reason that Honda has a high average is that they don't build the vehicles that do the work, carry the big family, or haul the trailer.

 

CAFE should be the result of the product mix that consumers want to buy. Haven't we already seen how successful building cars that consumers don't want can be? Do we really think that a congressman knows more about what Ford and GM should build than any one else in the business?

 

I understand the desire to grasp at any straw that looks like it might help, but we need to think this through.

[Imawhosure]

No, no, no!!!!

 

One of the biggest reasons they are in trouble is----------->they have retirees, the others do not!!

 

On the surface, it appears this would be a government funded program. But then again, if they collapse, it will be a government funded program anyway, not to mention the money at 66% rate going into their pockets will be too.

 

Your assesment is correct in certain aspects. Unfortunatley, our government is NOT allowed to HELP their manufacturers as our Japanese and Korean counterparts are. This overtaking is at least largerly caused by the help they received; and the only reason they had the money to give is-------------->our taxpayers rebuilt their economy after WWII.

 

Now then, we can think of it logical, or we can think of it stupid. We can let them collapse and have to pay, getting nothing in return; or we can pay, and get tax dollars in return..........not to mention better mileage vehicles out of the deal.

 

States do this all the time, offering tax breaks which ends up being cash in the end, to get manufacturers to move in. Their theory is simple-------------->get more jobs, more tax base, less people on government programs, etc, etc.

 

Now we are talking about OUR COUNTRY, and one of the largest pieces of its manufacturing pie left.

 

Being beaten even up is a bad game plan on your part. But to lose when so much is involved economically because of an economic abberation?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! To surrender 100s of 1000s of jobs to foreign owned companys is just stupid.

 

All you need do is look at what Toyoty and Honda give their Japanese workers, lolololol. When you understand that this whole discussion is about "predatory practices," and how our American workers for these companys are treated like second class citizens compared to those from the "Land of the Rising Sun," you might change your tune.

 

If not, maybe our lands and businesses mean nothing to you. Sorry to tell ya, they mean something to me/us.

 

The only difference between losing our steel industry compared to the car industry is------------>even uneducated UNION WORKERS will eventually wake up......we have..........and eventhough I think of things conservatively in most business cases, this time someone wants to level the playing field.

 

I for one, am going to insure that anyone I know from both partys is aware of this ingenious, low cost idea. And if the dems support it, then in the best interest of all those who did not attend college/will not attend college/and for our living standards, I will do my best to convince my friends to vote DEMOCRATIC, if they are the only ones to support this bill!!!!!!

[mettech]

No, no, no!!!!

 

One of the biggest reasons they are in trouble is----------->they have retirees, the others do not!!

 

On the surface, it appears this would be a government funded program. But then again, if they collapse, it will be a government funded program anyway, not to mention the money at 66% rate going into their pockets will be too.

 

Your assesment is correct in certain aspects. Unfortunatley, our government is NOT allowed to HELP their manufacturers as our Japanese and Korean counterparts are. This overtaking is at least largerly caused by the help they received; and the only reason they had the money to give is-------------->our taxpayers rebuilt their economy after WWII.

 

Now then, we can think of it logical, or we can think of it stupid. We can let them collapse and have to pay, getting nothing in return; or we can pay, and get tax dollars in return..........not to mention better mileage vehicles out of the deal.

 

States do this all the time, offering tax breaks which ends up being cash in the end, to get manufacturers to move in. Their theory is simple-------------->get more jobs, more tax base, less people on government programs, etc, etc.

 

Now we are talking about OUR COUNTRY, and one of the largest pieces of its manufacturing pie left.

 

Being beaten even up is a bad game plan on your part. But to lose when so much is involved economically because of an economic abberation?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! To surrender 100s of 1000s of jobs to foreign owned companys is just stupid.

 

All you need do is look at what Toyoty and Honda give their Japanese workers, lolololol. When you understand that this whole discussion is about "predatory practices," and how our American workers for these companys are treated like second class citizens compared to those from the "Land of the Rising Sun," you might change your tune.

 

If not, maybe our lands and businesses mean nothing to you. Sorry to tell ya, they mean something to me/us.

 

The only difference between losing our steel industry compared to the car industry is------------>even uneducated UNION WORKERS will eventually wake up......we have..........and eventhough I think of things conservatively in most business cases, this time someone wants to level the playing field.

 

I for one, am going to insure that anyone I know from both partys is aware of this ingenious, low cost idea. And if the dems support it, then in the best interest of all those who did not attend college/will not attend college/and for our living standards, I will do my best to convince my friends to vote DEMOCRATIC, if they are the only ones to support this bill!!!!!!

 

What?

[los pobres]

Brothers and sisters, it is highly unlikely Mr. Obama was just shooting from the hip on this one. No my friends, it is MORE likely that his party had something to do with his delivering of this idea.

 

I don't think "his party" had any thing to do with his quote. WHY? Because if they did, EVERY Democrat would be parroting it! When the Dems Party or the Reps Party have an idea it is REQUIRED that everyone in the party parrot that idea - no matter how stupid it is! It makes me sick that there are so few independent thinkers in DC. There are only 2 that I think of: McCain and Obama.

 

Was he shooting from the hip? Maybe, but I have been reading alot of Mr. Obama's speaches (http://obama.senate.gov/speech/) and he is a VERY independent thinker! Even more than John McCain.

 

Here is something to think about:

 

McCain/Obama Ticket?

Obama/McCain Ticket?

[Imawhosure]

What?

 

I was alluding to XRG7428s post. Sorry, should've quoted him.

[xr7g428]

No, no, no!!!!

 

One of the biggest reasons they are in trouble is----------->they have retirees, the others do not!!

 

On the surface, it appears this would be a government funded program. But then again, if they collapse, it will be a government funded program anyway, not to mention the money at 66% rate going into their pockets will be too.

 

Imawhosure, don't get me wrong here, I don't have a problem with playing for the home team.

 

My sense of this proposal is that we are being played for fools. Socialized medicine and the government dictating what kind of cars should be built doesn't solve the real problem.

 

The problem is the retirees. So fix the problem. The government is already on the hook for the majority of the pension benefits, why not have the government guarantee the benefits for the retirees the same way they guaranteed the loans for Chrysler? Basically this means that Ford and GM would have more time to pay those benefits. The key is to demand that Ford and GM keep a certain number of jobs in the US.

[CSMJ]

Last evening on the early network news with Katie Couric, Barouk Obama (did I spell that correctly) put forth an intriguing solution to the domestic automakers woes.

 

It went something like this------------->We need to decrease our dependance on foreign oil as it is costing OUR manufacturers jobs. In the interest of national security, we should offer our auto builders a deal. If they sign on to raise CAFE across the board, we should help finance it by offering to PAY THEIR RETIREES HEALTHCARE COSTS!!!!!!

 

Brothers and sisters, it is highly unlikely Mr. Obama was just shooting from the hip on this one. No my friends, it is MORE likely that his party had something to do with his delivering of this idea.

 

From our perspective, let us look at what that idea actually would do------------>level the playing field extensively, and without discrimination to our foreign competitors on our shores. I mean, just as it is not THEIR fault they have no retirees so we are screwed, it is not OUR fault that they do not, therefore get no government help with them for signing on to increase CAFE standards.

 

Excellent circumvention of cutting out automakers NOT in trouble, and helping those who actually need it!!!!

 

I personally would like to meet the man or woman who managed to think "out of the box" enough to figure a way to do this!!!!!

 

Anyway, the point is..........we should investigate this idea, who is for or against it, and regardless of party affiliation, INSURE WE CAST OUR VOTE FOR THEM!!!!!!

 

You see, they have actually devised a way to help..........without looking as if they are helping..........while giving credence to lowering our need for foreign oil.

 

May I suggest that even if it might be distasteful to some to vote repub or dem, whomever sees this as a stellar idea has actually decided to TRY and save SOME of our manufacturing base, and anyone who sees that as bad as far as I am concerned, is elitist.

 

Not to mention---------->anyone who has the political moxie to devise such a thing and still look golden, is not STUPID!!!!! We have enough STUPID politicians wrangling, time to get some smart ones.

 

Check with your politicians, and any info you get, please keep all of us informed!

He first said this about 12 months ago. It was first suggested by Clinton.

This stance was no dought Bill's idea and they used B.O. to see if it would catch on and when it did Hillary kept saying this.

She has used this in the DELPHI bankruptcy case.

When she runs the Senate in Jan. she will push this and make Bush veto it.She has said she wants to add retired Steel workers and coal miners to the bill also. When he does veto it Ohio,Illinois,.,.,Virginia,West.Vir.,Kent.,Indiana will turn from RED to BLUE in 08 presidential race.

There has to be millions of people in these states that will turn to democrats on this bill, lots of retired auto,steel and coal miners in these states. Watch them now add Rubber workers.(Goodyear,Michelin)

The Clinton's are masters at winning elections, they know what buttons to push.

 

I don't think "his party" had any thing to do with his quote. WHY? Because if they did, EVERY Democrat would be parroting it! When the Dems Party or the Reps Party have an idea it is REQUIRED that everyone in the party parrot that idea - no matter how stupid it is! It makes me sick that there are so few independent thinkers in DC. There are only 2 that I think of: McCain and Obama.

 

Was he shooting from the hip? Maybe, but I have been reading alot of Mr. Obama's speaches (http://obama.senate.gov/speech/) and he is a VERY independent thinker! Even more than John McCain.

 

Here is something to think about:

 

McCain/Obama Ticket?

Obama/McCain Ticket?

Try McCain/Rudi G. former N.Y. Mayor

VS.

Edwards/ Broux (Louisiana)

[Imawhosure]

Imawhosure, don't get me wrong here, I don't have a problem with playing for the home team.

 

My sense of this proposal is that we are being played for fools. Socialized medicine and the government dictating what kind of cars should be built doesn't solve the real problem.

 

The problem is the retirees. So fix the problem. The government is already on the hook for the majority of the pension benefits, why not have the government guarantee the benefits for the retirees the same way they guaranteed the loans for Chrysler? Basically this means that Ford and GM would have more time to pay those benefits. The key is to demand that Ford and GM keep a certain number of jobs in the US.

 

OK, I can buy and accept that.

 

I am not for/against socialized medicine, but I am for jobs.

 

Anyway they want to do it is fine by me.

 

I am just pissed that because they have no retirees, they have such an advantage.

 

 

This is why most of our manufacturing is gone. Now is not the time; nor is there ever a time, we should be dumb enough to give what is left away.

 

To many people are tied to these jobs, and they are not defunct, just moving around.

 

 

If America really wants to create a bunch of lower class oldsters, then the party who at least trys to make a solution for the problem is the one for me.

 

While I am a conservative thinker just like many of my bretheren who do not open their mouths as much as I do; I do not hear anything coming from the Elephant side of the aisle whatsoever. The non-college educated inner city people (and other places they come from I might add) need a place to earn a decent living.

 

To allow these jobs to be hijacked is just........plain........stupid, not to mention it eliminates many an American engineer and white collar worker also.

 

While this is no longer my fathers America, it is my America (and many others, not to mention yours too) and I say, "beat us fair and square WITHOUT the help of your government, not to mention that our companys took on these social problems of retirement looooong before you were here!"

 

If America is changing that much, then just stop collecting social security cause that is a losing proposition also. If S.S. IS good for America, then saving companys who gave due to our way of life years ago and are paying now, is also good.

 

How they do it exactly is unimportant, but do it they should, or every kinda company in the USA will flee, just because when they agree to pay, they are offered to the wolves of the Orient as a snack. And if that is America, I do not recognize it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fmccap]

How many american built cars and trucks are sold in Japan?

 

http://www.jama.org/AutoTrends/detail.cfm?id=102

[fmccap]

I can't find much as far as current numbers. My opinion is you need to go to the root of the problem. 700 billion dollar trade defecits is not fair. You need to have REAL Fair Trade. Government starts paying and will end up paying more as time goes on. Prices will always rise with our current system. We do this now and years down the road it will get out of hand or we will be looking for more help.

 

Here's a good article on the world economy.

http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/ar...1&back_url=

Edited October 16, 2006 by fmccap

[megirldeth]

OBAMA for president....could be a possibility

[davdog]

Do the transplants offer pensions? I know of few companies these days that do. If they don't offer pensions and use 401ks instead then they will never feel any effect from employees retiring.

 

 

 

OK, I can buy and accept that.

 

I am not for/against socialized medicine, but I am for jobs.

 

Anyway they want to do it is fine by me.

 

I am just pissed that because they have no retirees, they have such an advantage.

This is why most of our manufacturing is gone. Now is not the time; nor is there ever a time, we should be dumb enough to give what is left away.

 

To many people are tied to these jobs, and they are not defunct, just moving around.

If America really wants to create a bunch of lower class oldsters, then the party who at least trys to make a solution for the problem is the one for me.

 

While I am a conservative thinker just like many of my bretheren who do not open their mouths as much as I do; I do not hear anything coming from the Elephant side of the aisle whatsoever. The non-college educated inner city people (and other places they come from I might add) need a place to earn a decent living.

 

To allow these jobs to be hijacked is just........plain........stupid, not to mention it eliminates many an American engineer and white collar worker also.

 

While this is no longer my fathers America, it is my America (and many others, not to mention yours too) and I say, "beat us fair and square WITHOUT the help of your government, not to mention that our companys took on these social problems of retirement looooong before you were here!"

 

If America is changing that much, then just stop collecting social security cause that is a losing proposition also. If S.S. IS good for America, then saving companys who gave due to our way of life years ago and are paying now, is also good.

 

How they do it exactly is unimportant, but do it they should, or every kinda company in the USA will flee, just because when they agree to pay, they are offered to the wolves of the Orient as a snack. And if that is America, I do not recognize it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!